Let's get real about Franklin

Jerry

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It's one thing to slam him and/or to believe the lucrative contract extension was a huge mistake.

I mean, I don't subscribe to the most fevered criticism of the guy, but after being a big fan of his hire and performance through 2019, my confidence has been shaken a bit the last couple years, and I do understand why a lot of fans are quite unhappy with him. I also think the long-term extension of his contract with the prohibitive buy-out was a big mistake and seemed like an unnecessarily panicked reaction on the part of the administration.

But all that said, the idea, which many appear to have, that there's any chance in hell he'll be fired, is delusional. Hell, it's almost as delusional as me picking Penn State to beat the Bucks yesterday. Franklin's not going anywhere unless he chooses to go, but if it makes people feel better to pretend otherwise, well, it's a free country.
 
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maypole

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i think he may still choose to go at some point

it seems like he never stops looking for another job and many coaches are just like that

if he wants to go he will be willing to take a reduced buyout

that's the only way it is happening
PSU should name him Recruiting Coordinator, hire someone else as HC.
 

Online Persona

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It's one thing to slam him and/or to believe the lucrative contract extension was a huge mistake.

I mean, I don't subscribe to the most fevered criticism of the guy, but after being a big fan of his hire and performance through 2019, my confidence has been shaken a bit the last couple years, and I do understand why a lot of fans are quite unhappy with him. I also think the long-term extension of his contract with the prohibitive buy-out was a big mistake and seemed like an unnecessarily panicked reaction on the part of the administration.

But all that said, the idea, which many appear to have, that there's any chance in hell he'll be fired, is delusional. Hell, it's almost as delusional as me picking Penn State to beat the Bucks yesterday. Franklin's not going anywhere unless he chooses to go, but if it makes people feel better to pretend otherwise, well, it's a free country.
Similar to my thoughts. Feel like he was a great hire, had us getting there and then a step back. We are moving back in that direction again.

Realistically we aren't getting over the hump until we can recruit near Ohio St's level. The rest of the league combined has less talent on the field than Ohio St. So their coaching can underperform as they have for the last 5 years or so but they can still dominate the conference. They've lost a lot of games that they had no business losing like getting blown out by Purdue a couple of years ago. But what's worse is they've repeatedly demonstrated that they cannot legitimately compete in the playoffs despite having equal talent to Alabama and Georgia.

That said, it’s enough of a talent differential that only PSU or Michigan have a chance at winning the BIG10 every few years and everyone else only once in blue moon.

Interestingly, minus 4 turnovers, we were better than them on Saturday. We had more yards and if we played cleaner, that was a W. Our talent level should not have allowed us to be there but Day had a terrible game plan. We actually outcoached Ohio St despite our fans criticism. Just like Harbaugh outcoached Day last year and so did Oregon.
 

MacNit07

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Similar to my thoughts. Feel like he was a great hire, had us getting there and then a step back. We are moving back in that direction again.

Realistically we aren't getting over the hump until we can recruit near Ohio St's level. The rest of the league combined has less talent on the field than Ohio St. So their coaching can underperform as they have for the last 5 years or so but they can still dominate the conference. They've lost a lot of games that they had no business losing like getting blown out by Purdue a couple of years ago. But what's worse is they've repeatedly demonstrated that they cannot legitimately compete in the playoffs despite having equal talent to Alabama and Georgia.

That said, it’s enough of a talent differential that only PSU or Michigan have a chance at winning the BIG10 every few years and everyone else only once in blue moon.

Interestingly, minus 4 turnovers, we were better than them on Saturday. We had more yards and if we played cleaner, that was a W. Our talent level should not have allowed us to be there but Day had a terrible game plan. We actually outcoached Ohio St despite our fans criticism. Just like Harbaugh outcoached Day last year and so did Oregon.
Don’t sleep on Eddie Munster. He is a top coach…and a top recruiter.

Want to beat him? Recruit some players to Happy Valley that are on par with O$U. Recruiting is part of the job. Franklin gets paid for the entire job (and he is worse at in game coaching than recruiting).

He needs to go.
 

mcpat

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i think he may still choose to go at some point

it seems like he never stops looking for another job and many coaches are just like that

if he wants to go he will be willing to take a reduced buyout

that's the only way it is happening
If he quits on his own accord, I’m sure PSU would owe him nothing.
 
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mcpat

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We’ll see how this season plays out but if the team wins 10 regular season games and a bowl this year, he will have averaged 10 wins a year (ignoring the 2020 Covid season) since (and including) 2016. If averaging 10 wins a season isn’t good enough for you, then the problem may be you. There are very few programs doing better than that and it’s usually temporary when they do.
 

NedFromYork

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I think he will retire or step away from the game for a year to recharge within 4-5 years. I realize that leaves a lot of money on the table, but maybe that can be negotiated. I believe Manny is being groomed/in line to then take over. It's just a theory and I am not saying whether I like it or not.
 
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Ian

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First off Franklion is not going anywhere. Second, if he did, Krafty would never hand it over to Manny after he left him at Temple for Miami within a month.
 
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ryoder1

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Don’t sleep on Eddie Munster. He is a top coach…and a top recruiter.

Want to beat him? Recruit some players to Happy Valley that are on par with O$U. Recruiting is part of the job. Franklin gets paid for the entire job (and he is worse at in game coaching than recruiting).

He needs to go.
He's going nowhere. This is who we have. Your POV that he should be fired after a 10-2 season is delusional. What you are saying is if there are 20 managers in a company. The best is a guy or woman who looks to be the CEO of the future. The next person is excellent and could be the CEO and if not will still ascend to high levels of the company. Next is a very good manager who delivered very good results in the last year and you want to fire them because they are not at the level of the #1 or #2 guy or woman despite being better than the other 16 managers. Makes no sense.
 

Wallace Breen

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It's one thing to slam him and/or to believe the lucrative contract extension was a huge mistake.

I mean, I don't subscribe to the most fevered criticism of the guy, but after being a big fan of his hire and performance through 2019, my confidence has been shaken a bit the last couple years, and I do understand why a lot of fans are quite unhappy with him. I also think the long-term extension of his contract with the prohibitive buy-out was a big mistake and seemed like an unnecessarily panicked reaction on the part of the administration.

But all that said, the idea, which many appear to have, that there's any chance in hell he'll be fired, is delusional. Hell, it's almost as delusional as me picking Penn State to beat the Bucks yesterday. Franklin's not going anywhere unless he chooses to go, but if it makes people feel better to pretend otherwise, well, it's a free country.
There are only three scenarios where Franklin leaves before 2027.

1. He gets another job. At this point, he is damaged goods and everybody knows it. While I think he could be more successful at a program like USC, nobody wants him and those that would take him can't or won't pay him enough to leave.
2. He is let go for cause. This is also unlikely because he runs a clean program. With that said, given some of the signs we are seeing from so-called student athletes (which Penn State still values as an institution and won't change any time soon), Franklin could be painting himself into a corner with the transfer portal. I can envision a scenario in two to three years where he is fired for cause related to academic performance of his players.
3. The new AD makes his life miserable and he leaves for a equal or even lesser job. He can do this in several ways. He can flat out take administrative control of the coaching staff and start firing under-performing coaches. They have contract but they are far less than Franklin's. He can also hire coaches. He can do more to manage the team's budget. He can cut use of the University's aircraft, which he absolutely should do due to cost. He can also cut his budget. The football team belongs to the University, not James Franklin.
 

mcpat

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In another thread, I have PSU at #7 in FBS wins since 2016 (excluding the 2020 Covid season).

1. That level of success doesn’t get anyone fired.

2. There are a lot of “Blue Bloods” that would love to be that successful.
 

rrdd2021

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Realistically we aren't getting over the hump until we can recruit near Ohio St's level. The rest of the league combined has less talent on the field than Ohio St. So their coaching can underperform as they have for the last 5 years or so but they can still dominate the conference. They've lost a lot of games that they had no business losing like getting blown out by Purdue a couple of years ago. But what's worse is they've repeatedly demonstrated that they cannot legitimately compete in the playoffs despite having equal talent to Alabama and Georgia.
Not true at all - as usual. OSU is 1-1 against Alabama and has never played Georgia in the CFP. The team that OSU has had problems with is Clemson although OSU beat Clemson the last time they met in the Playoffs. I believe OSU is either 4-3 or 3-3 overall in the CFP and once a team gets that far, anything can happen
 
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Online Persona

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Not true at all - as usual. OSU is 1-1 against Alabama and has never played Georgia in the CFP. The team that OSU has had problems with is Clemson although OSU beat Clemson the last time they met in the Playoffs. I believe OSU is either 4-3 or 3-3 overall in the CFP and once a team gets that far, anything can happen
What I meant was actually winning it. They have had talent comparable to Alabama and Georgia but nothing to show for it. No other team has had comparable talent.
 
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rrdd2021

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What I meant was actually winning it. They have had talent comparable to Alabama and Georgia but nothing to show for it. No other team has had comparable talent.
They do have a NC in 2015 and played in the NC game 2 or 3 years ago. And BTW, quite a few teams have fallen short against Bama in case you haven't noticed. I consider Saban - reluctantly - as the greatest CF coach of all-time

Travel through a few of the SEC boards on Rivals or 247 (Georgia, Bama, and Tennessee) and take notice on the one northern team they don't want in this year's playoffs - it's OSU especially since they have a somewhat legit defense this year with the new staff. Their reason is that OSU has the firepower - and can explode for points at any given time in a short period of time. PSU saw that yesterday in the 4th quarter. They'd much rather see Michigan who has a more methodical offense and would find it hard to move against the SEC DLs.
 

Wallace Breen

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this is the only realistic way he goes in the next 5 years but, it could get really ugly and bring down the whole program in the process. and franklin holds all the cards and could just wait to be fired instead of quitting

i think they need to fully back him and overspend on coordinators for the next 5 years, thinking that one of them is the next guy
I don't necessarily want Franklin gone, I just want a strong AD that won't give him everything he wants when he wants it and won't check his baser instincts. Sandy saved him from himself when she made him fire John Donovan. And yes, for all the fools out there, Sandy made him do it. Franklin needs adult supervision. He doesn't have it but needs it. We need a group of lettermen to provide oversite on Franklin and make him justify any staff change he wants to make. That is the only way we get over the hump with Franklin because clearly his judgement is lacking.
 

LandoComando

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In another thread, I have PSU at #7 in FBS wins since 2016 (excluding the 2020 Covid season).

1. That level of success doesn’t get anyone fired.

2. There are a lot of “Blue Bloods” that would love to be that successful.
Why are you excluding 2020? How far down does that knock us?
 

Yanks49

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Replace 44 for OSU with almost any other player and Psu could have possibly won.
 

KCLion

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In another thread, I have PSU at #7 in FBS wins since 2016 (excluding the 2020 Covid season).

1. That level of success doesn’t get anyone fired.

2. There are a lot of “Blue Bloods” that would love to be that successful.
Why does everyone exclude the COVID season?

except for that Mrs Lincoln . . .
 

mcpat

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Why does everyone exclude the COVID season?

except for that Mrs Lincoln . . .
It’s open to discussion. But different schools and different states had different rules for the 2020 season. Including when the season/practice could begin, how you could practice, who could play and who was required to quarantine. Further, different areas even had different outbreaks. PSU was giving significant minutes to true freshman walk-ons just to field a team. In my opinion, it wasn’t indicative of what the season would have been.
 
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KCLion

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It’s open to discussion. But different schools and different states had different rules for the 2020 season. Including when the season/practice could begin, how you could practice, who could play and who was required to quarantine. Further, different areas even had different outbreaks. PSU was giving significant minutes to true freshman walk-ons just to field a team. In my opinion, it wasn’t indicative of what the season would have been.
I don’t give him that excuse. We played our best guys against Indiana (minus Micah) and lost on one of the worst coaching displays ever. He lost the team for quite some time after that for several games.

Add in his ongoing bellyaching about having to be away from his family while making millions of dollars just didn’t sit well with me (and yes I understand his daughter’s situation as I’m immunocompromised myself - double lung transplant). If it’s that bad being away from them, take a leave of absence and let the assistants coach.
 
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KCLion

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The big ten cancelled the season, the best defensive player in college football decided to go pro, they then uncancelled the season and the best defensive player in college football decided to stick with his original decision instead of playing.
And Ohio State won the conference, but at least we played all 9 games.
 

bvillebaron

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Similar to my thoughts. Feel like he was a great hire, had us getting there and then a step back. We are moving back in that direction again.

Realistically we aren't getting over the hump until we can recruit near Ohio St's level. The rest of the league combined has less talent on the field than Ohio St. So their coaching can underperform as they have for the last 5 years or so but they can still dominate the conference. They've lost a lot of games that they had no business losing like getting blown out by Purdue a couple of years ago. But what's worse is they've repeatedly demonstrated that they cannot legitimately compete in the playoffs despite having equal talent to Alabama and Georgia.

That said, it’s enough of a talent differential that only PSU or Michigan have a chance at winning the BIG10 every few years and everyone else only once in blue moon.

Interestingly, minus 4 turnovers, we were better than them on Saturday. We had more yards and if we played cleaner, that was a W. Our talent level should not have allowed us to be there but Day had a terrible game plan. We actually outcoached Ohio St despite our fans criticism. Just like Harbaugh outcoached Day last year and so did Oregon.
Franklin and his staff outcoached Day and OSU? Better watch yourself; that kind of blasphemy may get you banned here.
 

fastlax16

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And Ohio State won the conference, but at least we played all 9 games.

How many defensive rookies of the year sat out for them? 2020 plays out very different with Journey Brown and Parsons. Maybe they don't win the conference but it's highly unlikely to devolve into the trainwreck it became. If you want to use it to knock Franklin go ahead. Doesn't impact things moving forward so its moot.
 

bvillebaron

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I don't necessarily want Franklin gone, I just want a strong AD that won't give him everything he wants when he wants it and won't check his baser instincts. Sandy saved him from himself when she made him fire John Donovan. And yes, for all the fools out there, Sandy made him do it. Franklin needs adult supervision. He doesn't have it but needs it. We need a group of lettermen to provide oversite on Franklin and make him justify any staff change he wants to make. That is the only way we get over the hump with Franklin because clearly his judgement is lacking.
You are out of your mind. What school
has lettermen provide “oversight” over its head coach? Franklin isn’t the reason PSU lost yesterday. You haters become more comical every day.
 
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PSUcup1

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You are out of your mind. What school
has lettermen provide “oversight” over its head coach? Franklin isn’t the reason PSU lost yesterday. You haters become more comical every day.
Actually it is his fault because in his 9th year at the helm he still hasn’t been able to develop a B10 level O line nor a D line that can get pressure on the QB vs upper level competition

I won’t get into his Clifford obsession as that has been discussed extensively here
 

LandoComando

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You are out of your mind. What school
has lettermen provide “oversight” over its head coach? Franklin isn’t the reason PSU lost yesterday. You haters become more comical every day.
Who's fault is it? Isn't the coach ultimately responsible for the outcome?
And if you're trying to blame Clifford--who decided to start him this year and allow him to come back for a 6th season?
 

mcpat

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Penn State won two national championships in the 1980s.

They also won 8 or fewer games (in seasons with 12 total games) in five of the ten years that was the 80s.
 

LandoComando

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Penn State won two national championships in the 1980s.

They also won 8 or fewer games (in seasons with 12 total games) in five of the ten years that was the 80s.
Which is part of the reason people here still think there's rebuilding years
 

MacNit07

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I think he will retire or step away from the game for a year to recharge within 4-5 years. I realize that leaves a lot of money on the table, but maybe that can be negotiated. I believe Manny is being groomed/in line to then take over. It's just a theory and I am not saying whether I like it or not.
We’ll take it.

Can it begin Thursday? Manny can start with the coaches radio show.
 

PSUSignore

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I don't necessarily want Franklin gone, I just want a strong AD that won't give him everything he wants when he wants it and won't check his baser instincts. Sandy saved him from himself when she made him fire John Donovan. And yes, for all the fools out there, Sandy made him do it. Franklin needs adult supervision. He doesn't have it but needs it. We need a group of lettermen to provide oversite on Franklin and make him justify any staff change he wants to make. That is the only way we get over the hump with Franklin because clearly his judgement is lacking.
Having an AD that isn't aligned with the head coach is a perfect way to ensure the team never reaches the level of OSU, Bama and Georgia. For someone that complains about the team not being elite, this is one of the more ridiculous takes on the situation. One reason those other programs are elite is because the ADs, university presidents, boards, etc. are all on the same page that they want to invest heavily in football and they ensure the coaches get what they want in terms of investing in the program.
 
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mcpat

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I think Franklin tells it how it is. Some seem uncomfortable with that. But I’m guessing he’s much more in the know with why he loses some recruits to other schools than those of us posting to this message board. PSU football makes ALOT of $$$ for the athletic department and the region. If it’s head coach says he needs something to go from a top 10-15 program to a top 5 program, I say give it to him. If he gets it and the AD doesn’t see additional W’s, then it’ll be in place for the next HC.
 

mcpat

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In another thread, I have PSU at #7 in FBS wins since 2016 (excluding the 2020 Covid season).

1. That level of success doesn’t get anyone fired.

2. There are a lot of “Blue Bloods” that would love to be that successful.
Ironically, the team PSU is tied with at 7th (Wisconsin) did fire their coach. I’ll call myself out on that.
 

Gitzit

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I see the main problem with Franklins recruiting is the lack of highly ranked DT's, he gets a few but not many. He is getting highly ranked OL. I think if he hired the right person, like a Larry Johnson type that make those defensive tackles want to come here. We need some defensive tackles that can take over a game like Jared Odrick, or Jordan Hill did.
 
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PSU2UNC

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i think he may still choose to go at some point

it seems like he never stops looking for another job and many coaches are just like that

if he wants to go he will be willing to take a reduced buyout

that's the only way it is happening
Is he really looking for another job or is his agent doing his job (getting his name in the news for major openings) so he can leverage more resources for his assistants and facilities?
 
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