Let's talk OL ......... (I know NOT again)

[dawgduice]

but, we have WAY too many weeks before the season starts (sorry, baseball does not fill the gap). I was thinking (always a dangerous thing) that since Vegas has us as only a 5 point favorite against Temple it tells me "they" think our OL still sucks. Well?
I have been all over the place with this and really want to be optimistic, especially about Paris Palmer. And , I did watch the BC game again, the OL to me was a C at best.
Not sure if anyone wants to discuss this???

 

[Ceasar]

but, we have WAY too many weeks before the season starts (sorry, baseball does not fill the gap). I was thinking (always a dangerous thing) that since Vegas has us as only a 5 point favorite against Temple it tells me "they" think our OL still sucks. Well?
I have been all over the place with this and really want to be optimistic, especially about Paris Palmer. And , I did watch the BC game again, the OL to me was a C at best.
Not sure if anyone wants to discuss this???

I expect that worst case is the interior of the o-line will solid week in and week out. We have experienced players in Mangiro, Gaia, Mahon and Dowrey. Laurent and Rheiner are 4th/5th year guys who have played some. They all have good size. At RT no reason to think Nelson will be anything less than solid. That leaves LT and my hope is both Palmer and Sorrell can use the first half of the season to get experience and start to get through the learning curve and be ready for the second half. We need both of those guys to play if we are going to compete at a high level.
All of the above mentioned kids, with the exception of Laurent, were very solid recruits coming out of HS; none were "sanctions recruits". No reason why these guys should not form a very solid line.

 

[GregInPitt]

I expect that worst case is the interior of the o-line will solid week in and week out. We have experienced players in Mangiro, Gaia, Mahon and Dowrey. Laurent and Rheiner are 4th/5th year guys who have played some. They all have good size. At RT no reason to think Nelson will be anything less than solid. That leaves LT and my hope is both Palmer and Sorrell can use the first half of the season to get experience and start to get through the learning curve and be ready for the second half. We need both of those guys to play if we are going to compete at a high level.
All of the above mentioned kids, with the exception of Laurent, were very solid recruits coming out of HS; none were "sanctions recruits". No reason why these guys should not form a very solid line.

Yea, Solid. Very Solid, I don't know.

Mangiro has played OK. Most OL kids do progress with experience. He never looked like he was getting more solid physically to me. Hopefully he has training hard this past off season.

Mahon and Nelson should improve, as last year was their first taste of college football. Dowrey and Gaia were in about the same situation.

Laurent has never looked like a major college player to me. A little small (weight, strength, height), and unless he put on 20 lbs so that he looks like Ship now, I don't see him holding up against B10 fronts and playing much.

Reiner is a wild card, someone I will be looking for reports on as fall practice gets going. He could come in and win the Center spot and help the line get to a new level of performance (Mangiro moving,...) or he could be just a depth guy.

Palmer and Sorrell are also wild cards in my opinion. We just don't know enough about them to project them playing real well. Palmer looks too light, but what will he look like in September? Sorrell is obviously young and inexperienced, but he seems to be the best of the 4 redshirted OL freshman kids, so he COULD come in and make a splash.

And what about Wright. He was playing Guard this past spring. He's a year older (year at prep school). He's a big dude, and if he is a "player" he could make a big impact at Guard. A big road grader added inside could make it a lot easier to get the short yardard we had trouble getting last year.

 

[Option Bob]

I rewatched the BC game recently. I wish I were more astute about how to judge the play of an OL other than the simpleton method I now use: prevent sacks, open holes for the run. So I can't "grade" the OL vs. BC; however, I noticed that BC defeated USC (9-4), NC State (8-5), and Va Tech (you know, the buckeye beaters). The Eagles lost by 3 to FSU and by 4 to Clemson, both on the road.

Thus, it doesn't seem to me that BC was such a weak team that Penn State should have steamrolled it. Scoring 31 on BC seems to indicate that maybe the OL, rested and a bit healthier, did rather well. Four starters return, plus an experienced transfer in Reihner and an older JUCO in Palmer are added to the crew.

My blue-and-white Magic 8-ball says, "Line much improved in 2015."

 

[Nittany Security]

I'll believe it when I see it. All I can imagine is hack running for his life until the line jells somewhere in week four. But I have been wrong before.

 

[michnittlion]

Experience matters in college football ---- especially along the offensive line.

Last year, we had ONE offensive lineman who had previously started a game at the D-1 level. ONE! That single one was Donovan Smith. Diffenbach was hurt, of course. Everyone else, there was not a single one who has started a game on the line.

This year --- all of Mangiro, Nelson, Gaia, Mahon and Laurent have starting experience. They may not have been GOOD in their starting experience, but at least they have experience.

Palmer's a wildcard. Hope for the best, but until we see actual on-field data, I'll assume he's not a game-changer.

I sort of expect PSU's OL progression from 2014 to 2015 to be similar to what happened at U-M from 2013 to 2014. Move from having one of the absolute worst offensive lines in football, to an offensive line that is below-average, but very slightly below average.

Regarding Temple --- I last saw the Owls during a game against Cincinnati last November. Their defense is legitimately stout. I sort of wish this was the 3rd or 4th OOC game as opposed to the first, but such is the schedule. It's a tough match-up and if anything, the value is betting the Owls in this game (IMO). It will not be a gimme for the "good guys."

 

[NICNEM_PSU80]

I love Chance Sorrel but I really haven't seen him play yet. Paris looks a bit too lean and needs some extra coaching based on the BW game. That doesn't mean they can't do the job, just that they need more time to adjust to the most important position on the field.

My two cents has Nelson at LT and Mangiro at RT. When Smith went down last year that's what the coaches did. Reiner at Center sounds the right way to go and work in Paris and Chance to see how they do at RT and then LT if we get a reasonable lead.

I am counting on our DEFENSE to give the ball back to the offense a few extra times each game. I am also looking for 150 yards of rushing per game, a 50 yard improvement over last year to give more balance to the offensive attack. If the OL can support a somewhat improve running game the play calling variables will improve the passing game.That couple with the DEFENSE pushing the time of possession to our side will also help the line and the offense.

That said I am looking foe 150 yards rushing plus 325 yards passing from Hack. I know he can do it. 475 yards of offense will blow the doors off of most teams we play.

I can't see putting our most inexperienced lineman at LT.

 

[Ceasar]

I love Chance Sorrel but I really haven't seen him play yet. Paris looks a bit too lean and needs some extra coaching based on the BW game. That doesn't mean they can't do the job, just that they need more time to adjust to the most important position on the field.

My two cents has Nelson at LT and Mangiro at RT. When Smith went down last year that's what the coaches did. Reiner at Center sounds the right way to go and work in Paris and Chance to see how they do at RT and then LT if we get a reasonable lead.

I am counting on our DEFENSE to give the ball back to the offense a few extra times each game. I am also looking for 150 yards of rushing per game, a 50 yard improvement over last year to give more balance to the offensive attack. If the OL can support a somewhat improve running game the play calling variables will improve the passing game.That couple with the DEFENSE pushing the time of possession to our side will also help the line and the offense.

That said I am looking foe 150 yards rushing plus 325 yards passing from Hack. I know he can do it. 475 yards of offense will blow the doors off of most teams we play.

I can't see putting our most inexperienced lineman at LT.

IMHO your thoughts make a lot of sense. The nice thing is with a few more bodies and experience we have some options available (such as moving Mangiro to T) that we did not have last year.

 

[ClarkstonMark]

I love Chance Sorrel but I really haven't seen him play yet. Paris looks a bit too lean and needs some extra coaching based on the BW game. That doesn't mean they can't do the job, just that they need more time to adjust to the most important position on the field.

My two cents has Nelson at LT and Mangiro at RT. When Smith went down last year that's what the coaches did. Reiner at Center sounds the right way to go and work in Paris and Chance to see how they do at RT and then LT if we get a reasonable lead.

I am counting on our DEFENSE to give the ball back to the offense a few extra times each game. I am also looking for 150 yards of rushing per game, a 50 yard improvement over last year to give more balance to the offensive attack. If the OL can support a somewhat improve running game the play calling variables will improve the passing game.That couple with the DEFENSE pushing the time of possession to our side will also help the line and the offense.

That said I am looking foe 150 yards rushing plus 325 yards passing from Hack. I know he can do it. 475 yards of offense will blow the doors off of most teams we play.

I can't see putting our most inexperienced lineman at LT.

I also think if Reihner impresses, we will see Nelson/Mangiro at the Tackle spots.
It seems clear that neither Palmer nor Sorrell are ready.

 

[CappyToCJF]

I love Chance Sorrel but I really haven't seen him play yet. Paris looks a bit too lean and needs some extra coaching based on the BW game. That doesn't mean they can't do the job, just that they need more time to adjust to the most important position on the field.

My two cents has Nelson at LT and Mangiro at RT. When Smith went down last year that's what the coaches did. Reiner at Center sounds the right way to go and work in Paris and Chance to see how they do at RT and then LT if we get a reasonable lead.

I am counting on our DEFENSE to give the ball back to the offense a few extra times each game. I am also looking for 150 yards of rushing per game, a 50 yard improvement over last year to give more balance to the offensive attack. If the OL can support a somewhat improve running game the play calling variables will improve the passing game.That couple with the DEFENSE pushing the time of possession to our side will also help the line and the offense.

That said I am looking foe 150 yards rushing plus 325 yards passing from Hack. I know he can do it. 475 yards of offense will blow the doors off of most teams we play.

I can't see putting our most inexperienced lineman at LT.

Mangiro played some tackle last year because there was no one else, as CJF was intent on redshirting the 4 true frosh. There are options this year and I'd bet my paycheck Mangiro plays exclusively inside in 2015. At Guard or Center.

 

[BBrown]

but, we have WAY too many weeks before the season starts (sorry, baseball does not fill the gap). I was thinking (always a dangerous thing) that since Vegas has us as only a 5 point favorite against Temple it tells me "they" think our OL still sucks. Well?
I have been all over the place with this and really want to be optimistic, especially about Paris Palmer. And , I did watch the BC game again, the OL to me was a C at best.
Not sure if anyone wants to discuss this???

I think a the C is more than fair, I probably would give it a C-.
That being said. I think we will be better maybe C+ to B- better and that alone may mean an extra win or 2.
LT is a concern but at least we have bodies and talent there. I expect a knock down drag out fight between Paris Palmer and Chance Sorrell and in the end it will be better for us.
My other concern on the O-line is Center. I was not a Mangiro fan last year. A hard working kid thats probably not playing his best or natural position but doing whatever he can to help the team. But there has to be a lot of improvement and my god the shotgun snaps you could time with a sundial and were very rarely on target. I'm thinking both Wendy Laurent and Kevin Reihner will offer good competition and again that can only help us. I'm really kind of hoping either Laurent or Reihner wins the battle and Mangiro can go back to Guard.
The rest of the line I think will be much improved and hopefully Dowrey's wrist is finally healthy cause I thought he was pretty good in the BC game.

Now if you really want to see where my concern lies look no further than special teams. We need a good consistent punter and we need to start getting some plus yardage out of punt and kick returns.

 

[dawgduice]

I think a the C is more than fair, I probably would give it a C-.
That being said. I think we will be better maybe C+ to B- better and that alone may mean an extra win or 2.
LT is a concern but at least we have bodies and talent there. I expect a knock down drag out fight between Paris Palmer and Chance Sorrell and in the end it will be better for us.
My other concern on the O-line is Center. I was not a Mangiro fan last year. A hard working kid thats probably not playing his best or natural position but doing whatever he can to help the team. But there has to be a lot of improvement and my god the shotgun snaps you could time with a sundial and were very rarely on target. I'm thinking both Wendy Laurent and Kevin Reihner will offer good competition and again that can only help us. I'm really kind of hoping either Laurent or Reihner wins the battle and Mangiro can go back to Guard.
The rest of the line I think will be much improved and hopefully Dowrey's wrist is finally healthy cause I thought he was pretty good in the BC game.

Now if you really want to see where my concern lies look no further than special teams. We need a good consistent punter and we need to start getting some plus yardage out of punt and kick returns.

Yep, the punter issue is a BIG ONE. We almost always lost field advantage last year.
Well, given that Temple has an experienced D-line we should have a good idea about our OL right out of the gate. If, we have a UCF type game, where the OL did a good job protecting Hack but terrible for the run game, then we will have season long problems. We need to be able to run the ball just enough. If we go 1st down and lose yardage or only gain 2-3 yards ? Well, than it becomes a game of "jail-break" !!!

 

[BBrown]

Yep, the punter issue is a BIG ONE. We almost always lost field advantage last year.
Well, given that Temple has an experienced D-line we should have a good idea about our OL right out of the gate. If, we have a UCF type game, where the OL did a good job protecting Hack but terrible for the run game, then we will have season long problems. We need to be able to run the ball just enough. If we go 1st down and lose yardage or only gain 2-3 yards ? Well, than it becomes a game of "jail-break" !!!

Your mention of the run game is spot on. I will always respect what Bill Belton did for us but bless his heart he was not a running back.
We all saw the inability of the O-line last year to open holes and protect Hack but honestly there were times where the were holes, cut back lanes and the ends were sealed and our backs either never saw them, weren't fast enough or fell down. I'm going to go out on a limb here and say our RB's will be much better this year and that alone will make the O-line look better than it may actually be.

 

[dawgduice]

Your mention of the run game is spot on. I will always respect what Bill Belton did for us but bless his heart he was not a running back.
We all saw the inability of the O-line last year to open holes and protect Hack but honestly there were times where the were holes, cut back lanes and the ends were sealed and our backs either never saw them, weren't fast enough or fell down. I'm going to go out on a limb here and say our RB's will be much better this year and that alone will make the O-line look better than it may actually be.

Hey, I have to think the OL guys would love for the RBs to "hit some holes" as few as they may be. I think if a few of those happen the line feels better about the job they are doing and will take some pride in that and maybe play better. There is not much glory in being a OL

 

[zwick99]

The OL will be bad. Next year you will see the improvement and the year after they will be good.