Mark Gastineau says he has Parkinsons, Alzheimers and Dementia

[Obliviax]

Football needs to get this stuff figured out, and fast. Hear there is a new helmet coming out that compresses slightly, from the outside. Heard it pushes $500 each. Also know that sensors are being built and when a player takes too much punishment, will be pulled out of a game.

 

[Zenophile]

Football needs to get this stuff figured out, and fast.

An emphatic +1

 

[delcoLion]

Football needs to get this stuff figured out, and fast. Hear there is a new helmet coming out that compresses slightly, from the outside. Heard it pushes $500 each. Also know that sensors are being built and when a player takes too much punishment, will be pulled out of a game.

I don't see how. Head-to-head collisions can't be stopped. You can only stop the intentional acts.

Football is a great game, teaches great lessons, but I think the long-term future is in doubt.

 

[Cletus11]

Helmet technology today is much better than in the 70's, the question is whether it is good enough which unfortunately won't be known for another 20 years which is the amount of time it appears this head trauma takes to manifest.

I still say that they need to enforce strict pad requirements. Look at Michael Bennet on the Seahawks, the guy literally wears nothing but a helmet. Nobody wears knee pads anymore and most don't wear hip pads or thigh pads. If all players (high school through NFL) had to wear full regulation knee pads, thigh pads, hip pads, tailbone pads, large shoulder pads, etc...it would slow everybody down so the hits would be much less violent. Plus hitting a pad is actually less impactful then somebody muscle-bound bony arm or leg.

 

[bwifan]

Football needs to get this stuff figured out, and fast. Hear there is a new helmet coming out that compresses slightly, from the outside. Heard it pushes $500 each. Also know that sensors are being built and when a player takes too much punishment, will be pulled out of a game.

Heard they were testing putting padding on the outside of the helmet as well now then plastic then more padding. That to me would seem to work and take some of those sharp blows of plastic on plastic away and soften the blow/energy before getting to the plastic then additional padding inside of the helmet.

 

[michnittlion]

Football needs to get this stuff figured out, and fast.

This is true. Although, Gastineau also had a 18-fight boxing career in his post-football days. That probably had an impact too.

 

[Lion8286]

I don't see how. Head-to-head collisions can't be stopped. You can only stop the intentional acts.

How do you stop the intentional acts??

 

[Obliviax]

They've got to crack down on late hits too. I've seen way too many spearing events that weren't called.

 

[Nitt1300]

I don't see how helmets can ever be effective enough to stop concussions.

 

[delcoLion]

How do you stop the intentional acts??

I presume that your question is meant to say how do you know what is intentional? Good question, I don't know.

The targeting rules are meant to eliminate what appears to be intentional, maybe they need to be tougher, say, instead of disqualifying a player for a half, maybe the player needs to be suspended for multiple games.

If they can't get a handle on this, then football will disappear some day.

 

[lionlurker]

If he really has all of that stuff, how can he know it?

 

[BOSCO2]

I presume that your question is meant to say how do you know what is intentional? Good question, I don't know.

The targeting rules are meant to eliminate what appears to be intentional, maybe they need to be tougher, say, instead of disqualifying a player for a half, maybe the player needs to be suspended for multiple games.

If they can't get a handle on this, then football will disappear some day.

Do what Joe always said. Remove the facemask and spearing will stop. Now, broken noses........not so much.

 

[ericstratton-rushchairman]

My old man, who played at Notre Dame in the 50's with Hornung, says the only real way to make a difference is to play without hard helmets... force players to stop leading with their heads. Of course he also still refuses to give up his beta max.

 

[demlion]

When I was a HS FB player, my team did not have a helmet big enough to fit my head (insert joke here) so they had to special order one from Riddell. In addition to the cheap plastic foam pads in most helmets, this one had a water-filled pad on the forehead and the back of the head.

I think I was in 10th grade. I broke through on a punt and ran right over the punter, who was also the star WR for the other team, and their best athlete. It was my facemask and forehead on his head, straight on. The ball bounced right into my buddy Dan's hands and he scored on the play, but I did not know this because both the punter and I were unconscious. I woke up on my back, wondering why no one was cheering my great play. The punters helmet had slashed his forehead, so in addition to being out cold, he was pouring blood from a pretty serious gash. Everyone but one of our coaches was gathered around him. I could feel this warm fluid on my face and thought I was bleeding, but when I touched my face and looked at my hand there was nothing. The world seemed strange...a long ways away.

The WR was out for stitches. I missed two or three series, then went back in, but not before I discovered that my facemask was broken. My head hurt and my vision was a little cloudy, and when I saw the film the next week there were a lot of plays in the 4th quarter I did not recall being involved in, though there I was, up on the screen. Anyway, we found out at practice on Monday that my helmet's water pad in the front was busted.

Every time I read one of these stories I think about that play. Except for those few series, I never missed a snap because of that injury.

 

[john4psu]

My old man, who played at Notre Dame in the 50's with Hornung, says the only real way to make a difference is to play without hard helmets... force players to stop leading with their heads. Of course he also still refuses to give up his beta max.

Beta had better quality and beta tapes took up less space.

 

[Obliviax]

When I was a HS FB player, my team did not have a helmet big enough to fit my head (insert joke here) so they had to special order one from Riddell. In addition to the cheap plastic foam pads in most helmets, this one had a water-filled pad on the forehead and the back of the head.

I think I was in 10th grade. I broke through on a punt and ran right over the punter, who was also the star WR for the other team, and their best athlete. It was my facemask and forehead on his head, straight on. The ball bounced right into my buddy Dan's hands and he scored on the play, but I did not know this because both the punter and I were unconscious. I woke up on my back, wondering why no one was cheering my great play. The punters helmet had slashed his forehead, so in addition to being out cold, he was pouring blood from a pretty serious gash. Everyone but one of our coaches was gathered around him. I could feel this warm fluid on my face and thought I was bleeding, but when I touched my face and looked at my hand there was nothing. The world seemed strange...a long ways away.

The WR was out for stitches. I missed two or three series, then went back in, but not before I discovered that my facemask was broken. My head hurt and my vision was a little cloudy, and when I saw the film the next week there were a lot of plays in the 4th quarter I did not recall being involved in, though there I was, up on the screen. Anyway, we found out at practice on Monday that my helmet's water pad in the front was busted.

Every time I read one of these stories I think about that play. Except for those few series, I never missed a snap because of that injury.

Ha! Funny....we used to call that "getting your bell rung" and it was common. (not the cut though). our coaches used to teach us to lead with our head, but heads up. We were told to punish the opposing players with our helmets. And we had great coaches.

 

[JoeBatters1]

Didn't gastineau have drug issues and a tumultuous personal life? I think that should be looked at before jumping to conclusions that it's all football related.

 

[I am Ironman]

http://vicis.co/

Vicis is building an impact reducing helmet. Their site is pretty cool, check it out.

 

[Obliviax]

Didn't gastineau have drug issues and a tumultuous personal life? I think that should be looked at before jumping to conclusions that it's all football related.

Well, the drugs could be football related too. When were steroids made illegal by the NFL? I recall hearing that the Steelers heyday teams used to have a bowl of pain killers sitting out for anyone to grab.

 

[Zenophile]

When I was a HS FB player, my team did not have a helmet big enough to fit my head (insert joke here) so they had to special order one from Riddell. In addition to the cheap plastic foam pads in most helmets, this one had a water-filled pad on the forehead and the back of the head.

I think I was in 10th grade. I broke through on a punt and ran right over the punter, who was also the star WR for the other team, and their best athlete. It was my facemask and forehead on his head, straight on. The ball bounced right into my buddy Dan's hands and he scored on the play, but I did not know this because both the punter and I were unconscious. I woke up on my back, wondering why no one was cheering my great play. The punters helmet had slashed his forehead, so in addition to being out cold, he was pouring blood from a pretty serious gash. Everyone but one of our coaches was gathered around him. I could feel this warm fluid on my face and thought I was bleeding, but when I touched my face and looked at my hand there was nothing. The world seemed strange...a long ways away.

The WR was out for stitches. I missed two or three series, then went back in, but not before I discovered that my facemask was broken. My head hurt and my vision was a little cloudy, and when I saw the film the next week there were a lot of plays in the 4th quarter I did not recall being involved in, though there I was, up on the screen. Anyway, we found out at practice on Monday that my helmet's water pad in the front was busted.

Every time I read one of these stories I think about that play. Except for those few series, I never missed a snap because of that injury.

This is definitely the context I was missing.

 

[psu00]

Your never going to stop all concussions. Football needs rules to prevent helmet to helmet intentional acts but at the same time use some discretion. (I find it frustrating when a defender goes to make a good tackle and the offensive player suddenly lowers his helmet into the defender and the defender gets penalized and kicked out of the game).

I know with ESPN this is 'the' sports conversation now and that's fine so long as there's some balance and common sense in the discussion (often lacking at ESPN).

 

[JoeBatters1]

Well, the drugs could be football related too. When were steroids made illegal by the NFL? I recall hearing that the Steelers heyday teams used to have a bowl of pain killers sitting out for anyone to grab.

Stop with the nonsense. If he took steroids that's on him. I believe he was arrested for drugs well after he left football. My point stands that he was no angel and may have had lifestyle issues that could have led directly to his present health problems.

 

[Obliviax]

Your never going to stop all concussions. Football needs rules to prevent helmet to helmet intentional acts but at the same time use some discretion. (I find it frustrating when a defender goes to make a good tackle and the offensive player suddenly lowers his helmet into the defender and the defender gets penalized and kicked out of the game).

I know with ESPN this is 'the' sports conversation now and that's fine so long as there's some balance and common sense in the discussion (often lacking at ESPN).

I agree...but I think helmet makers, in conjunction with teams, wanted helmets to be hard as rocks. In fact, i don't think that's debatable. Why not cover the helmet with a leather cover, like a dashboard of a car, to mitigate the effect of the collision? The rock hard helmets have been a collaborative tool for several decades.

 

[demlion]

Stop with the nonsense. If he took steroids that's on him. I believe he was arrested for drugs well after he left football. My point stands that he was no angel and may have had lifestyle issues that could have led directly to his present health problems.

Repeated concussions are KNOWN, and have been known for a long long time, to have deleterious health effects. You cannot run from this and point to Gastineau's personal life in order to blame him. Even if it is true in the case of Gastineau, it is not true of the many many other pro and college FB players who have suffered brain trauma from playing the game.

 

[JoeBatters1]

What's your point Dem? I'm not making a judgement on the whole NFL-concussion issue. I just pointed out that with Gasineau there may be other issues at play. After the last 5 years we all should know by now not to react to headlines and consider individual events within their own unique context.

Repeated concussions are KNOWN, and have been known for a long long time, to have deleterious health effects. You cannot run from this and point to Gastineau's personal life in order to blame him. Even if it is true in the case of Gastineau, it is not true of the many many other pro and college FB players who have suffered brain trauma from playing the game.

 

[LafayetteBear]

If he really has all of that stuff, how can he know it?

Poor bastard. I feel genuinely sorry for his plight.

But your post reminds me of a joke.

Guy goes to the doctor feeling terrible. Doctor runs some tests and tells him to come back the next day.

The guy comes back the next day, and the doctor says "I have bad news and worse news. Which do you want first."

The guy says "Gimme the bad news first."

Doctor: "OK, you have AIDS."

The guy says "Aw shiat, doc. Really?" After spending a few moments regaining his composure, the guy says "What's the worse news?"

Doctor: "You have Alzheimers."

The guy ponders this a second and brightens visibly. "Well, at least I don't have AIDS."

Rim shot.

 

[demlion]

What's your point Dem? I'm not making a judgement on the whole NFL-concussion issue. I just pointed out that with Gasineau there may be other issues at play. After the last 5 years we all should know by now not to react to headlines and consider individual events within their own unique context.

My point is that by substituting your analysis, based on "wasn't he arrested for drugs?" for the suggestion made by him that it was brain trauma from football. Let's not pretend you had some scientific evidence to suggest a cause other than football. It is not "nonsense," as you called it, to suggest that impaired brain function may have it from football. The evidence is pretty clear and it is going to get clearer.

 

[Obliviax]

My point is that by substituting your analysis, based on "wasn't he arrested for drugs?" for the suggestion made by him that it was brain trauma from football. Let's not pretend you had some scientific evidence to suggest a cause other than football. It is not "nonsense," as you called it, to suggest that impaired brain function may have it from football. The evidence is pretty clear and it is going to get clearer.

That's right....I attended a symposium on the status of pro sport at Harvard ~ 5 years ago. I said, on this very board, that it was coming. Sadly, its here. On the other hand, at least we now know.

 

[heckmans]

My old man, who played at Notre Dame in the 50's with Hornung, says the only real way to make a difference is to play without hard helmets... force players to stop leading with their heads. Of course he also still refuses to give up his beta max.

^^^^^^^^^^^^ THIS ^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I've said it in here many times. Football developed from Rugby. Concussions in rugby occur much less than in football. Why? what are the differences?

1. Helmets & pads - These are weapons and they give players a false sense of security. A hard helmet or shoulder pads inflict a much heavier hit than the body can. About 20 years ago, in rugby, a soft foam "helmet" was introduced that some people choose to wear. http://www.rugbyimports.com/previewimage.asp?pid=127&prodtype=productgroup

2. Tackling style - Rugby is a game of possession and players are taught to tackle with their behind the ball carrier. Football is a game of inches and players are taught to tackle with the head in front to stop the ball carrier "sooner". There are some NFL teams bringing in rugby coaches to teach tackling. Andy Ryland (PSU LB '02 and son of my rugby coach) also played rugby and runs a program for USA football called "Heads-up Football"
https://usafootball.com/programs/heads-up-football/
The problem ultimately with rugby tackling being fully adopted, is a tackler trying to stop the ball-carrier from getting that last inch.

3. Wrapping - In rugby, a tackler must wrap the ball carrier. A tackler cannot simply throw a shoulder (though a push out of bounds is fine) to knock the ball-carrier over. This leads to less catastrophic hits because a tackler must be in control to swap their arms around the ball-carrier.

4. Leaving your feet - In Rugby, a tackler cannot leave their feet. Sure you can dive at a ball carrier's ankles, but you cannot launch yourself at the chest of a ball carrier (see #3 wrapping)

5. Defenseless positions - Football innovations of downfield blocking and the forward pass can put players in defenseless positions. Hard to legislate out these risks, but #1-4 would make the hits taken in defenseless positions much less severe.

IDK what it ultimately does to the popularity of football, but IMHO, the only way to lessen head injuries in football is to return the game closer to it's rugby roots. Time will tell!

 

[Bobpsu]

Heard they were testing putting padding on the outside of the helmet as well now then plastic then more padding. That to me would seem to work and take some of those sharp blows of plastic on plastic away and soften the blow/energy before getting to the plastic then additional padding inside of the helmet.

The sudden change in direction of the head at impact causes the brain to compress in the skull..thus the damage. No helmet design will fix this! Contact to the head must be reduced and this is up to the players.
I think it was Joe that said to take the helmets off!

 

[gjbankos]

Helmet technology today is much better than in the 70's, the question is whether it is good enough which unfortunately won't be known for another 20 years which is the amount of time it appears this head trauma takes to manifest.

I still say that they need to enforce strict pad requirements. Look at Michael Bennet on the Seahawks, the guy literally wears nothing but a helmet. Nobody wears knee pads anymore and most don't wear hip pads or thigh pads. If all players (high school through NFL) had to wear full regulation knee pads, thigh pads, hip pads, tailbone pads, large shoulder pads, etc...it would slow everybody down so the hits would be much less violent. Plus hitting a pad is actually less impactful then somebody muscle-bound bony arm or leg.

Problem is while the technology is much better, today's athletes are far better too. 230 lb missiles are far too much for a helmet to handle.

 

[sluggo72]

How do you stop the intentional acts??

fine the player, and then start fining the assistant coach, HC, and the team. If player gets fined x, asst coach 1/2 x, HC 2x, team 10x, and see what happens.

 

[Sviatoslav]

Heard they were testing putting padding on the outside of the helmet as well now then plastic then more padding. That to me would seem to work and take some of those sharp blows of plastic on plastic away and soften the blow/energy before getting to the plastic then additional padding inside of the helmet.

Our penn state road uni's with a white padded helmet?

 

[palehorse]

Heard they were testing putting padding on the outside of the helmet as well now then plastic then more padding. That to me would seem to work and take some of those sharp blows of plastic on plastic away and soften the blow/energy before getting to the plastic then additional padding inside of the helmet.

Research suggests that would lead to more cervical injuries. It has been suggested in the past.

 

[palehorse]

Some of the most promising research is based on neck compression vs trying to do anything with the helmet. It mimics the mechanism that prevents woodpeckers from giving themselves a concussion.

 

[troutrus]

Best way to protect players might be to do away with all pads and helmets. Remove the feeling of invincibility.

 

[Cletus11]

The faster the player and the harder the surface, the more impact. Slow down the player and soften the surface.

Slow down the player by introducing more padding all over the body. Also softens the blows.

Reduce player speed by putting in real PED testing and huge penalties. Olympic type penalties. First time gone 2 years, second time gone forever. Players would think twice if those were the rules. Less PED's, players are not as fast.

 

[artsandletters]

When I was a HS FB player, my team did not have a helmet big enough to fit my head (insert joke here) so they had to special order one from Riddell. In addition to the cheap plastic foam pads in most helmets, this one had a water-filled pad on the forehead and the back of the head.

I think I was in 10th grade. I broke through on a punt and ran right over the punter, who was also the star WR for the other team, and their best athlete. It was my facemask and forehead on his head, straight on. The ball bounced right into my buddy Dan's hands and he scored on the play, but I did not know this because both the punter and I were unconscious. I woke up on my back, wondering why no one was cheering my great play. The punters helmet had slashed his forehead, so in addition to being out cold, he was pouring blood from a pretty serious gash. Everyone but one of our coaches was gathered around him. I could feel this warm fluid on my face and thought I was bleeding, but when I touched my face and looked at my hand there was nothing. The world seemed strange...a long ways away.

The WR was out for stitches. I missed two or three series, then went back in, but not before I discovered that my facemask was broken. My head hurt and my vision was a little cloudy, and when I saw the film the next week there were a lot of plays in the 4th quarter I did not recall being involved in, though there I was, up on the screen. Anyway, we found out at practice on Monday that my helmet's water pad in the front was busted.

Every time I read one of these stories I think about that play. Except for those few series, I never missed a snap because of that injury.

My concussions were the result my head hitting a brick wall, a concrete street, and forgetting to call a fair catch on a punt return in midgets (3 kids walloped me) -- all by the time I was twelve. In each case I was told to go lay down for awhile, it'd get better. Concussions weren't invented yet, I guess. I had really bad headaches for years. Now I'm just a mental case; better than the headaches.

 

[bdgan]

They've got to crack down on late hits too. I've seen way too many spearing events that weren't called.

Maybe the NFL should adopt some of the college rules. More strict enforcement against helmet to helmet contact, play is over when a guys knee is down (even if not touched by defender).

Didn't Joe say we should go back to leather helmets?

 

[BlueBand]

My point is that by substituting your analysis, based on "wasn't he arrested for drugs?" for the suggestion made by him that it was brain trauma from football. Let's not pretend you had some scientific evidence to suggest a cause other than football. It is not "nonsense," as you called it, to suggest that impaired brain function may have it from football. The evidence is pretty clear and it is going to get clearer.

I don't think anyone is disputing the role of concussions in brain damage. However, I do think it's a valid question to ask if steroids in particular, which were/are widely used in football, are not ALSO a contributing factor. In other words, would the average person receiving equivalent concussions have the same brain damage, or is there something related to steroid use that further amplified the affects.