Going into this years edition of the Hall-Jordan saga I was looking for Mark to get 2-3 TDs instead of 1-2. I felt he would push for a more wide open match. Watching him get in on that single early I felt a "what if". What if he'd finished that first take down? Would he have pushed the pace? Could he with a cyborg like Jordan. I think these two will meet in the Big Ten finals and Mark will push for an 8-3 type of victory.
Mark Hall
- Thread starter PSUisawesome
- Start date
Hall beat a soon-to-be 4X AA. BoJo is really, really good. Hall took every shot in the match, and got countered once because BoJo is strong as an ox and is always in a solid position. He's rarely caught off balance. And Hall's super duck is so good that not even BoJo can defend it over the course of 7 minutes. It was a great match.
There's no need to nitpick. Enjoy the win against a very strong opponent.
There's no need to nitpick. Enjoy the win against a very strong opponent.
This was not a nitpick post. Mark Hall is my favorite athlete in any sport. I just watched the match several times and saw that his intention appeared to be to get in early and often. As has already been said Bojo took no shots and wrestled defensively. The skill with which BoJo countered Mark's shot appears to have altered the nature of the match and I believe Mark's game plan will me to widen the gap at the Big Tens.
1. "Widen the gap" wasn't the plan already?
2. How much more do you expect him to widen the gap? For reference, Zahid's last match with Jordan was 9-6.
1. True
2. Mark's teammates regularly major top five competition and he is coached by Cael. Personally I just want to see him get his second national title this year and I see his work as being cut out for him in the form of Zahid. Objectively I don't see Mark as someone who is not working to emulate or surpass his peers. Bo majored MyMar in the epic meet of all time. Zain majored Sorensen in the f**king NCAA finals. Mark respects the sh*t out of BoJo but I cannot see him content with one and two point victories.
My point of referencing Zahid is that reality eventually creeps in. Sometimes the other guy is really good. Mark is beating a former #1 overall recruit.
Bo Jordan is pretty good. 102-10 in his career, and 24-0 in his RS season.
10 losses;
Cousin Isaac (4) - 3-2, 6-4, 3-1, 5-4
Zahid (2) - 9-4, 9-6
Mark - 5-2, 6-4
Realbuto - 3-2
D-ringer - 6-1
D-ringer and Zahid only guys in 112 official bouts to win by 5 points. Mark the next highest point margin, along with Zahid, with 3-point wins. Bo also has a 6-4 SV win against Mark. Keep good position, crisp shots and quick finishes...even a 1-point win against a talented opponent should be celebrated.
10 losses;
Cousin Isaac (4) - 3-2, 6-4, 3-1, 5-4
Zahid (2) - 9-4, 9-6
Mark - 5-2, 6-4
Realbuto - 3-2
D-ringer - 6-1
D-ringer and Zahid only guys in 112 official bouts to win by 5 points. Mark the next highest point margin, along with Zahid, with 3-point wins. Bo also has a 6-4 SV win against Mark. Keep good position, crisp shots and quick finishes...even a 1-point win against a talented opponent should be celebrated.
Sorry this is sort of long, but Bo presents a lot to talk about and gives a lot to say due to the frustration he can cause watching him wrestle!
As an Ohio State fan, it’s almost insufferable watching Bo wrestle the way he does against Mark Hall. Especially with the blatant size advantage. (Although I think Mark has proven BoJo’s size advantage to him isn’t equal in strength, Mark’s right there with him).
Some poster was giving Bo credit after this latest match and said he wrestled the perfect match but still lost. I literally spit my drink out, because I just got done screaming at my TV with 20 family members the most during the Jordan match and at Bo.
I don’t think Bo took 1 offensive shot, literally not a single one all 3 periods. Even worse, he didn’t even take a counter shot. His takedown was simply pushing Halls head down and horsing him after catching him off balance. That’s the only way to take Hall down, when he’s off balance...Your not going to ever beat a wrestler as elite as Mark Hall with this approach...he’s too good of a positioned wrestler.
Bo’s biggest mistake I think is he’s using the exact same game plan for both Zahid and Hall, and it’s based on heavy hands and defense, hoping to get a late 3rd period takedown from tiring them out. He uses this approach simply because Hall and Valencia are two of the best there is at countering shots themselves.
This method is exactly what Bo needs to use with Valencia and not because he’s got better or worse offense than Hall, but because Valencia is a high motor, multi attack wrestler whose offense is based on volume, and his strength is in his pace.
Bo needs to do a better job of keeping Valencia off his legs the first two periods, which he was able to do for the most part in their second match, but also needs to avoid getting suck backed and getting behind altogether. If Bo can defend but still stay active like he did against Hall, he can beat Valencia because Valencia will and has shown he will tire out due to his pace In The 3rd period. Bo had him on the ropes in their last match 3rd period but it was too little too late due to going down 6-0 right out the gate.
Hall’s strength isn’t pace, it’s positioning and countering. Bo can’t match up with Mark with this same exact style, because Hall simply is a better mat wrestler than Bo, and has a bigger reportoire to go to when he needs it that Bo doesn’t. Like his duck for example.
What I hope to see from Bo next time is not a high paced Bo initiating offense and shots like many want him to do against Hall...there is a reason Bo doesn’t do this and it’s because Hall is elite at countering, plain and simple.
What Bo needs to do to beat Mark again is simple. Heavy hands, wrestle exact same way as last time with great positioning but with one difference...COUNTER him next time after defending his shot. And I know Bo’s first 2 point against Hall is considered a counter, but I mean counter shots, not scramble with him after he gets off balance.
How many times last match did Bo swat Mark away trying to get in on him, put him off balance, only to allow him to collect himself again to do it again? You can’t allow a guy that talented multiple opportunities to score without giving yourself any.
And why BoJo has completely given up his elite top game I have no clue or idea...it’s so frustrating to watch. For anyone bored, google BoJo’s semifinal match against Deiringer his redshirt freshman year. Bo was dominated on his feet, which Dieringer did to everybody, but you can see that everyone and Bo knew he still has a shot because he could choose top to start the 3rd. If Dieringer didn’t cry out in pain to get a potential dangerous stoppage, Bo was turning him on his back.
I have no idea why wrestlers today don’t do the exact same thing as Dieringer did to Bo when Zain has here leg cranked behind their back...scream out in pain and get out of that position. It works...just ask Alex D.
As an Ohio State fan, it’s almost insufferable watching Bo wrestle the way he does against Mark Hall. Especially with the blatant size advantage. (Although I think Mark has proven BoJo’s size advantage to him isn’t equal in strength, Mark’s right there with him).
Some poster was giving Bo credit after this latest match and said he wrestled the perfect match but still lost. I literally spit my drink out, because I just got done screaming at my TV with 20 family members the most during the Jordan match and at Bo.
I don’t think Bo took 1 offensive shot, literally not a single one all 3 periods. Even worse, he didn’t even take a counter shot. His takedown was simply pushing Halls head down and horsing him after catching him off balance. That’s the only way to take Hall down, when he’s off balance...Your not going to ever beat a wrestler as elite as Mark Hall with this approach...he’s too good of a positioned wrestler.
Bo’s biggest mistake I think is he’s using the exact same game plan for both Zahid and Hall, and it’s based on heavy hands and defense, hoping to get a late 3rd period takedown from tiring them out. He uses this approach simply because Hall and Valencia are two of the best there is at countering shots themselves.
This method is exactly what Bo needs to use with Valencia and not because he’s got better or worse offense than Hall, but because Valencia is a high motor, multi attack wrestler whose offense is based on volume, and his strength is in his pace.
Bo needs to do a better job of keeping Valencia off his legs the first two periods, which he was able to do for the most part in their second match, but also needs to avoid getting suck backed and getting behind altogether. If Bo can defend but still stay active like he did against Hall, he can beat Valencia because Valencia will and has shown he will tire out due to his pace In The 3rd period. Bo had him on the ropes in their last match 3rd period but it was too little too late due to going down 6-0 right out the gate.
Hall’s strength isn’t pace, it’s positioning and countering. Bo can’t match up with Mark with this same exact style, because Hall simply is a better mat wrestler than Bo, and has a bigger reportoire to go to when he needs it that Bo doesn’t. Like his duck for example.
What I hope to see from Bo next time is not a high paced Bo initiating offense and shots like many want him to do against Hall...there is a reason Bo doesn’t do this and it’s because Hall is elite at countering, plain and simple.
What Bo needs to do to beat Mark again is simple. Heavy hands, wrestle exact same way as last time with great positioning but with one difference...COUNTER him next time after defending his shot. And I know Bo’s first 2 point against Hall is considered a counter, but I mean counter shots, not scramble with him after he gets off balance.
How many times last match did Bo swat Mark away trying to get in on him, put him off balance, only to allow him to collect himself again to do it again? You can’t allow a guy that talented multiple opportunities to score without giving yourself any.
And why BoJo has completely given up his elite top game I have no clue or idea...it’s so frustrating to watch. For anyone bored, google BoJo’s semifinal match against Deiringer his redshirt freshman year. Bo was dominated on his feet, which Dieringer did to everybody, but you can see that everyone and Bo knew he still has a shot because he could choose top to start the 3rd. If Dieringer didn’t cry out in pain to get a potential dangerous stoppage, Bo was turning him on his back.
I have no idea why wrestlers today don’t do the exact same thing as Dieringer did to Bo when Zain has here leg cranked behind their back...scream out in pain and get out of that position. It works...just ask Alex D.
Because they're in too much pain to scream? Sorensen tried the chameleon defense, changed colors several times, did him no good.
Seriously though: any insight as to why Jordan stopped riding legs on top? He was a hammer in HS and IIRC was real tough with legs during his shirt year.
I am completely at a loss in understanding why Bo has essentially scrapped his top game. How does a wrestler completely scrap the part of his game where he’s the most elite, scores the most points either in bunches or pin, and has always been the most feared?
It’s no secret Bo’s biggest weakness is bottom as well . You’d think a guy who struggles there would want to punish his opponents one in the same. Bo knows how he’s lost matches not being able to get out from bottom, I mean honestly who I’m earth wants that genetic freak draped all over them for a period cranking your shoulder??
Lastly....Bo’s strategy the past 2 seasons has been consistent... heavy hands, defense, 1 shot max per period and on a late shot clock. Don’t ask my why, is it his foot, or his ankle? I don’t know. But for someone who manages a match like this, why wouldn’t you expend your energy on top of your opponent where not only can you score in bunches or pin, but worst case you ride for a period and lock up a riding time point along with expend a ton of your opponents energy....versus spending 10 secs allowing them to their feet and then fight them off your legs for the entire period scoring nothing trying to get to the 3rd period??
Beyond frustrating to watch. I miss the high school Bo Jordan. He was relentless. Had a variety of pinning combinations and could rack up points.
It’s no secret Bo’s biggest weakness is bottom as well . You’d think a guy who struggles there would want to punish his opponents one in the same. Bo knows how he’s lost matches not being able to get out from bottom, I mean honestly who I’m earth wants that genetic freak draped all over them for a period cranking your shoulder??
Lastly....Bo’s strategy the past 2 seasons has been consistent... heavy hands, defense, 1 shot max per period and on a late shot clock. Don’t ask my why, is it his foot, or his ankle? I don’t know. But for someone who manages a match like this, why wouldn’t you expend your energy on top of your opponent where not only can you score in bunches or pin, but worst case you ride for a period and lock up a riding time point along with expend a ton of your opponents energy....versus spending 10 secs allowing them to their feet and then fight them off your legs for the entire period scoring nothing trying to get to the 3rd period??
Beyond frustrating to watch. I miss the high school Bo Jordan. He was relentless. Had a variety of pinning combinations and could rack up points.
That's an amazing record of consistency at a very high level.
Just being picky to be picky, but per tOSU's website he was 23-0 his redshirt season.
-Completed season with 23-0 record, which included five major decisions, four technical falls and 11 falls; one fall was 16 seconds
It would be cool to hear Cael honestly answer how he visualizes BoJo would be wrestling if BoJo had come to PSU. Although, we can probably guess what the answer would be.
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Wrestlestat fan here...18 matches against D1 competition, 6 vs non-D1 competition.
They show 24 bouts...so not sure where the "missing bout" is!!
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The reality that is creeping in for me is that Cael and his kids are moving the goalposts. Five NCs last year is the new reality. PSU beating the Bucks without Nolf is the new reality. The performance Cael is getting from his kids in big moments exceeds all expectations. This week I have been posting about what this new reality might look like. That is all. In ordinary reality a one point win over BoJo is world class. I don't think Cael or any of his athletes are shooting for ordinary and I don't think we are going to see anything approaching ordinary in March. Mark has always exceeded expectations and on this team I think the trend will continue.
Mark has never exceeded his own expectations, and can never.
And, no, none of the guys shoot for ordinary. That's silly.
Mark can control only his own performance. If the other guy also performs at that level, and you still find a way to win, you take it and be happy.
Yes, and with respect to #2, Bo got behind too much too early. He was really turning it on in the 3rd but ran out of time. His pace was wearing out Zahid.
I don't blame you for being frustrated with Bo and I also don't blame you for missing the high school Bo Jordan, and I don't know enough about him to talk about the other things you mentioned, but I think this point is pretty easy to digest. He's not in high school anymore, and those varied attacks and pinning combinations that he made look so easy in high school are just not easy against guys in college.
Wrestling is one of those sports that just blows my mind how big of a gap there is between levels like high school and college. If you look around the B1G, it's filled with former state champs, and usually guys who are multiple time state champs. You have guys that can't even AA that won 4 straight high school titles. I imagine that when they were in high school they looked unstoppable. These are the best of the best kids in the country at folkstyle. Bo isn't high school Bo anymore because college isn't high school.
I've wrestled my share of elite kids during my wrestling career and there were times where I thought to myself, "how can this guy ever lose a match?" Those guys never went on to become NCAA champs and some never even won a state title.
When I got back on the bandwagon, after having been away from the sport at the high school level for a long time, that is what amazes me. In particular the defense is at such a higher level in college. In high school when a kid gets a single leg elevated, chances are very good he's getting the TD. In college, it might be a less than 50/50 proposition.
Heck, look at what Nolf did to Bethea last year at Keystone. Nolf was dead to rights, with a solid double coming from Bethea. Yet, Nolf rolls out of it and into a takedown of his own. Probably not fair using Nolf as the example for this, but it's not just him, it's every kid out there.
Lot of coaching involved and also a great eye for identifying who can take their game to the next level and who cannot.
Remember Jake Kemerer, came to PSU as a top recruit at his weight class, actually walked on after the coaching change at Oklahoma. Cael told him he had to change his style to be successful in college. Cael was right.
If you think about it, every time guys goes out there in B1G they are probably wrestling a state champ. In high school, how many times does a guy wrestle a state champ? Once a year? Maybe two?
