Men’s basketball gets a verbal commitment from Mikeal Brown-Jones

[fairfaxlion2]

After reading all the negative posts I wonder how many of you know the mediocre history of PSU basketball. There’s more talent on this team than ever. Not having Watkins is the reason they lost two games this year. Some of you need to get a life and enjoy what is happening now. By the way been following basketball since 1974.

I'm well aware of the history, and the last two years were the most talented teams I can remember.

But that makes it even worse.

The two most talented teams before the last two years were probably 1995-96 and 2000-01. The 1995-96 team got a 5-seed and was at one point ranked #9 in the nation. The 2001 team went to the Sweet 16, and during the season defeated multiple teams that went to that year's Elite 8 and Final 4.

By comparison, look at what this staff has done with even better talent. An NIT title is very nice but last year's ceiling was way higher than an NIT title.

And now has this team managed to play its way out of the NCAA tournament before the end of November! One NIT in 8 years is bad even by historical PSU standards, and there's no way around it.

This really stinks. I think there is a high chance that the newfound recruiting pipeline will be disrupted if Pat is replaced. But, at some point there's no choice. Both Dunn and DeChellis were replaced after 8 years and both accomplished more.

 

[fairfaxlion2]

Talent compared to what? The rest of the Big Ten? Eventually a coach has to win. Basketball is the one sport where a single player can make a difference. In 7 years he's yet to bring in that caliber of a player.

Actually, he has brought in several of those players, and inherited one. He has not been able to do anything with them.

 

[AWS1022]

The previous success under Dechelis and Dunn was all due to long shot recruits paying off once every decade. In the other seasons their teams were putrid. Chambers is building with solid recruiting connections that are now paying dividends. He is getting 5 star recruits to visit campus. When did that ever happen with Dechelis or Dunn? You could try to hire Rick Petino, or another scum bag and there would be a quicker ascent to the top of the big ten, but Penn State has the talent now and in the pipeline to make the ncaa tournament if they stay healthy and eligible.

And if they keep not making the tournament, how long is that pipeline going to last? Many posters on here talk like one 7-5 season in football will destroy recruiting for the next five years, but the basketball team can keep missing the tournament for 8, 10, 12 years but the recruiting pipeline will keep growing? Great players don’t want to go to a program that never makes the tournament.

 

[fairfaxlion2]

And if they keep not making the tournament, how long is that pipeline going to last? Many posters on here talk like one 7-5 season in football will destroy recruiting for the next five years, but the basketball team can keep missing the tournament for 8, 10, 12 years but the recruiting pipeline will keep growing? Great players don’t want to go to a program that never makes the tournament.

It won't last long at all. And giving credit where due, the fact that it has not already closed up suggests that Pat is quite an effective recruiter.

 

[Ranger Dan]

Talent compared to what? The rest of the Big Ten? Eventually a coach has to win. Basketball is the one sport where a single player can make a difference. In 7 years he's yet to bring in that caliber of a player. You can say that Dunn & DeChellis got lucky and I won't argue that but Chambers isn't succeeding regardless of how we try to spin it. He finished under 500 in year 6. Decent team last year that failed to make the tournament. I kept hearing how this was definitely the year we'd make the NCAAs and the non-conference slate is probably going to prevent that 5 games into the season. Let's be real, we're not winning 12+ in the Big Ten. You can't have "bad" losses. In year 3, I could say we're still building depth. This is year 8, there's no excuse for not having depth. None. Chambers isn't getting the job done. At the end of the day the coach should be judged on wins & losses. He needs to win games. People want Washington fired but Chambers has accomplished far less and the situation she came into was also horrible.

The expectation that Penn State is entitled to have an elite basketball program is just silly. This is like Pitt firing Wanstedt because they thought Pitt deserved to be in the BCS.

 

[AWS1022]

The expectation that Penn State is entitled to have an elite basketball program is just silly. This is like Pitt firing Wanstedt because they thought Pitt deserved to be in the BCS.

Chambers is in year 8. It’s not like they canned him after three years. How long should he get without a tournament showing? I read on here a million times to give him 8 years, all the experts said it was an 8 year project....we’re in year 8 and looks strongly like no tournament appearance again. So what is it now, 12 years?

 

[Chickenman Testa]

“Hope Springs Eternal” must have been a slogan that had Chambers’ dogged supporters in mind.

 

[fairgambit]

Talent compared to what? The rest of the Big Ten? Eventually a coach has to win. Basketball is the one sport where a single player can make a difference. In 7 years he's yet to bring in that caliber of a player. You can say that Dunn & DeChellis got lucky and I won't argue that but Chambers isn't succeeding regardless of how we try to spin it. He finished under 500 in year 6. Decent team last year that failed to make the tournament. I kept hearing how this was definitely the year we'd make the NCAAs and the non-conference slate is probably going to prevent that 5 games into the season. Let's be real, we're not winning 12+ in the Big Ten. You can't have "bad" losses. In year 3, I could say we're still building depth. This is year 8, there's no excuse for not having depth. None. Chambers isn't getting the job done. At the end of the day the coach should be judged on wins & losses. He needs to win games. People want Washington fired but Chambers has accomplished far less and the situation she came into was also horrible.

Washington did not come into a "horrible" situation. Yes, the team had 2 down years, but before that were 7 straight trips to the NCAA Tournament.

 

[2020 is Our Year]

Washington did not come into a "horrible" situation. Yes, the team had 2 down years, but before that were 7 straight trips to the NCAA Tournament.

She dealt with major "circumstances" as I'm sure you are aware. But, yes, women's basketball has a history here and it's easier to restore it to what it once was as opposed to trying to build from nothing.

 

[2020 is Our Year]

The expectation that Penn State is entitled to have an elite basketball program is just silly. This is like Pitt firing Wanstedt because they thought Pitt deserved to be in the BCS.

Elite? I've never asked for elite. I just want to know how many years you're willing to give him to make the tournament. 10? 12? 15? 20?

Wannstedt won 26 games in his last 3 years and was 15-6 in the Big East. Wannstedt had far more success than Chambers and was fired. Not sure the comparison you're making works here. I honestly don't believe anyone is looking to win titles or even make the NCAAs every other year. I'm just not okay with 7+ years of mediocrity or worse. How many coaches in P5 are given 8 years to make the dance?

 

[GregInPitt]

He's not building anything and he's had less success than everyone before him. How long do you want to give him? 5 more years? This is ridiculous. He should have been gone at least 2 years ago

Well, he did say "slowly"...... So slow it's hard to even see!!

 

[GregInPitt]

He's not building anything and he's had less success than everyone before him. How long do you want to give him? 5 more years? This is ridiculous. He should have been gone at least 2 years ago

Penn State head coaches:
Coach Tenure Record
Pat Chambers 2011-Pres 113-122
Ed DeChellis 2003-11 114-138
Jerry Dunn 1995-2003 117-121
Bruce Parkhill 1983-95 181-169

Yep, pretty consistent mediocrity the last 35 years.... May as well let Pat keep this going another 20 or 30 years!! But last we checked, the previous coaches were looked at as not very successful and most were replaced with the goal of UPGRADING the performance of the BB program. Performance, as in wins!!

 

[GregInPitt]

The expectation that Penn State is entitled to have an elite basketball program is just silly. This is like Pitt firing Wanstedt because they thought Pitt deserved to be in the BCS.

No, what is silly is even discussing "entitlement" regarding college sports. It's about being committed as a university, fan support, attracting talent, and coaching which includes recruiting, player development, and game day strategy and game management, which all together make up a college sports PROGRAM, led by the coach. Our current men's BB coach does not seem to be able to win enough games, as his record clearly shows. And he has a poor record the last few years considering he has upgraded the talent. So maybe Pat would make a great recruiting coordinator for a better basketball coach. But his record in running the PSU program suggests that it is again time to try and find a leader for the program that can win more games with or without better talent.

pitt being stupid enough to fire Wanny has no bearing or relationship to PSU developing a BB program that can participate regularly in the NCAA.

I follow U of Dayton BB where my youngest son attended as an undergraduate. Archie Miller got them to the elite 8 with less ranked talent than what Pat had last year. But yesterday their new coach and the upgraded roster he developed OVER HIS TENURE OF 2 YEARS gave UVA, the #4 team in the country, recognized now as one of the top defensive teams in the country and a shoe in for the NCAA, all they could handle. He has assembled a roster that actually looks as talented as any that Archie put together, after he inherited a depleted roster partially due to injuries, the death of a young talented Center, and attrition. In 2 years, not 8 years.

While talking about pitt, their new coach in 6 months has assembled a roster that together with his game day coaching may be the favorite VS PSU, given PSU choking against DePaul and Bradley. Oh, and their coach that had to basically assemble over two-thirds of their roster since being hired after last season just beat St Louis, a very talented team that is the favorite to win the A10. Pitt starting from scratch this year, may get to the NCAA before Pat does.

Defending a college BB coach that has had 8 year to rebuild a program is SILLY.

 

[GregInPitt]

“Hope Springs Eternal” must have been a slogan that had Chambers’ dogged supporters in mind.

Yep, and where I worked the slogan was "HOPE is not a business strategy". So if you mentioned hope in your plans to accomplish your assignments you would be looking for employment elsewhere....

 

[Ranger Dan]

Elite? I've never asked for elite. I just want to know how many years you're willing to give him to make the tournament. 10? 12? 15? 20?

Wannstedt won 26 games in his last 3 years and was 15-6 in the Big East. Wannstedt had far more success than Chambers and was fired. Not sure the comparison you're making works here. I honestly don't believe anyone is looking to win titles or even make the NCAAs every other year. I'm just not okay with 7+ years of mediocrity or worse. How many coaches in P5 are given 8 years to make the dance?

I’m not using a time frame for the NCAA tournament as the yardstick. For me, it’s whether the team is competitive. And, when the basketball team has been healthy and eligible over the last couple of years they have been competetive with everyone in the league.

 

[Jaymar80]

I'll be the first to admit, I'm not much of a basketball fan, but I really don't understand why everyone wants Chambers gone! I'm assuming I must have missed some good years of PSU MBB, but I thought he was at least headed in the right direction with the program. I actually sat down with the in-laws last season, and didn't get bored watching a few games. Is losing to DePaul and Bradley really that bad? It sounds like if one of the shooters could have made some 3's in the 2nd half, they would only have the one loss to DePaul, and wasn't it an OT win, so it must have been close! Like I said, I don't know much about basketball, but it seems like he's real close! And if Carr wasn't a bone head and hire an agent, he could have came back, and if Watkins wasn't a bigger one for getting in trouble, again, he would be back, and I'd bet we're undefeated right now, and some of you wouldn't be so down on Chambers! You can't blame the coach for everything!

 

[psrurock]

Does everyonev realize this kid had a Villanova offer. That was my kids number 1 school last year. My twins are at PSU and Northwestern now. That being said the talent base is climbing just need these kids to realize that acedemics are important at PSU. We'll see how long Sandy's leash is this year.

 

[AWS1022]

I'll be the first to admit, I'm not much of a basketball fan, but I really don't understand why everyone wants Chambers gone! I'm assuming I must have missed some good years of PSU MBB, but I thought he was at least headed in the right direction with the program. I actually sat down with the in-laws last season, and didn't get bored watching a few games. Is losing to DePaul and Bradley really that bad? It sounds like if one of the shooters could have made some 3's in the 2nd half, they would only have the one loss to DePaul, and wasn't it an OT win, so it must have been close! Like I said, I don't know much about basketball, but it seems like he's real close! And if Carr wasn't a bone head and hire an agent, he could have came back, and if Watkins wasn't a bigger one for getting in trouble, again, he would be back, and I'd bet we're undefeated right now, and some of you wouldn't be so down on Chambers! You can't blame the coach for everything!

He’s heading backwards again.

 

[BobPSU92]

I’m not using a time frame for the NCAA tournament as the yardstick. For me, it’s whether the team is competitive. And, when the basketball team has been healthy and eligible over the last couple of years they have been competetive with everyone in the league.

With all due respect, the ncaa tournament is the yardstick. Chambers has been here quite awhile and has been recruiting well by Penn State's standards. He has to make the ncaa tournament this year. He should have made it last year. Merely being competitive in the b1g is not good enough. There are no more excuses.

 

[Ranger Dan]

With all due respect, the ncaa tournament is the yardstick. Chambers has been here quite awhile and has been recruiting well by Penn State's standards. He has to make the ncaa tournament this year. He should have made it last year. Merely being competitive in the b1g is not good enough. There are no more excuses.

You are welcome to have your own yardstick, but in my opinion this is not the best viewpoint. You can say that the coach needs to go to the NCAA tournament every four years (for example), but all that assures you is that you have success every four years. It doesn’t assure competitive teams for the other three years and doesn’t guarantee that corners aren’t cut. In my job, I value processes and systems that ensure success. what I see in Chambers is the raising of the floor, as opposed to the ceiling. The ceiling will come along for the ride though...

 

[AWS1022]

You are welcome to have your own yardstick, but in my opinion this is not the best viewpoint. You can say that the coach needs to go to the NCAA tournament every four years (for example), but all that assures you is that you have success every four years. It doesn’t assure competitive teams for the other three years and doesn’t guarantee that corners aren’t cut. In my job, I value processes and systems that ensure success. what I see in Chambers is the raising of the floor, as opposed to the ceiling. The ceiling will come along for the ride though...

I guess consistent mediocrity is better than inconsistent success.

 

[fairfaxlion2]

You are welcome to have your own yardstick, but in my opinion this is not the best viewpoint. You can say that the coach needs to go to the NCAA tournament every four years (for example), but all that assures you is that you have success every four years. It doesn’t assure competitive teams for the other three years and doesn’t guarantee that corners aren’t cut. In my job, I value processes and systems that ensure success. what I see in Chambers is the raising of the floor, as opposed to the ceiling. The ceiling will come along for the ride though...

It's not the only metric for a successful season; for example, Nebraska was 13-5 in conference last year but the committee for some reason denied them a bid. Nobody serious would call that season a failure. That said, never making the NCAA tournament is not a good metric.

 

[heckmans]

He's not building anything and he's had less success than everyone before him. How long do you want to give him? 5 more years? This is ridiculous. He should have been gone at least 2 years ago

Dumbest post of the day

 

[2020 is Our Year]

Dumbest post of the day

Thanks! If you want to give him a decade to achieve mediocrity then more power to you

 

[Howie'81]

Excellent material. You can now go back to sucking your thumb.

Idiot.

 

[Nit16]

Or we could bring in Mark Few, since all the good coaches are waiting in line to coach here.

Best reason I’ve seen for keeping Chambers.

 

[psuguy43]

https://blackcagersports.com/2018/11/23/why-not-penn-state-mikeal-brown-jones/

 

[WDLion]

Idiot.

Well your post was throwing a wet blanket on a positive event.

 

[psuguy43]

Maybe the best solution would be to have Chambers in charge of selling this program to a big time coach? ;-) He's incredible at selling this program - and I would certainly say that he is our best coach since the Parkhill days.

 

[AWS1022]

and I would certainly say that he is our best coach since the Parkhill days.

Based on what? He’s not if you look at things like records and making the NCAA tournament, but other than those unimportant things, he’s gold.

 

[psuguy43]

Based on what? He’s not if you look at things like records and making the NCAA tournament, but other than those unimportant things, he’s gold.

Record beats his oppenents... and he didnt inherit what Dunn inherited

 

[AWS1022]

Record beats his oppenents... and he didnt inherit what Dunn inherited

He had one less win than DeChellis and he has a worse record than Dunn and Parkhill...so no, it doesn’t. And after 8 years what he inherited doesn’t mean anything anymore.

 

[Howie'81]

Well your post was throwing a wet blanket on a positive event.

What I said is true. We need to beat teams like Bradley.

 

[WDLion]

What I said is true. We need to beat teams like Bradley.

Never said it wasn't true. That wasn't the point.

 

[fairfaxlion2]

Record beats his oppenents... and he didnt inherit what Dunn inherited

I know it's ancient news now, but I think Dunn really gets sold short. In retrospect, I think he was adequate. In 8 years he went to two NCAA tournaments and two NIT tournaments, both times advancing to the NIT final 4 or beyond. We all thought it was very subpar, but his two successors have not equaled his performance. He inherited a great team in 1995, but the 2000-01 team was undeniably his own. I do not think he received any support whatsoever from the university after reaching the S16, and he should have been supported. I think he could have done very well if PSU's AD supported him in that moment instead of treating him like they did not want him to stay. If they had made a great hire in 2003, then yes, we would be correct in saying that he wasn't so good. But they inexplicably hired DeChellis who was, IMO, completely terrible and took things backwards before he figured out what he was doing around 2007.

Chambers undeniably had an uphill battle in recruiting, coming in right before the negative stuff went down in 2011. I think he has done a great recruiting job but he clearly has deficiencies. It's been a long time and he doesn't seem to be changing. If he goes on and wins the next four games this will all be moot, but I have my doubts.

 

[Howie'81]

Never said it wasn't true. That wasn't the point.

So how do we land high end players when we can't beat the Bradley's? Tell me, is an NIT championship our ceiling?

 

[fairfaxlion2]

Next game is vs. #13 VT. Chambers has a chance to redeem himself, but if things keep going south, PSU has a decision to make.

If Dave Paulsen has a good season at George Mason, he could be a good target for PSU. He was formerly at Bucknell and Williams and has had lots of success.

 

[psuguy43]

He had one less win than DeChellis and he has a worse record than Dunn and Parkhill...so no, it doesn’t. And after 8 years what he inherited doesn’t mean anything anymore.

What he inherited effects the overall W/L record for this comparison.

 

[AWS1022]

What he inherited effects the overall W/L record for this comparison.

And how does that cause him to finish a game or two over .500 this year?

 

[SUPERTODD]

Elite? I've never asked for elite. I just want to know how many years you're willing to give him to make the tournament. 10? 12? 15? 20?

Wannstedt won 26 games in his last 3 years and was 15-6 in the Big East. Wannstedt had far more success than Chambers and was fired. Not sure the comparison you're making works here. I honestly don't believe anyone is looking to win titles or even make the NCAAs every other year. I'm just not okay with 7+ years of mediocrity or worse. How many coaches in P5 are given 8 years to make the dance?

So are you using Pitt’s firing of Wanny as a model of how we should treat our basketball program? How has firing Wanny worked out for Pitt? If anything it shows that teams who are “non-elite” in a particular sport have to be very patient and build a strong foundation, have realistic expectations and not change coaches every few years. Coaching changes are much more likely to cripple a program than help it.