Miller-Realbuto fiasco -- the plot thickens

[El-Jefe]

ICYMI, Realbuto won in SV after the scorekeeper missed Miller's RT point.

Afterward, the NCAA Wrestling Committee reviewed the match and declined to overturn the result. The committee mouthpiece (I think Wyoming's AD) publicly blamed Kent State's coaches for not challenging the score. Yes, that's a total crock ... and blatantly false.

It turns out Jim Andressy DID challenge the score -- the ref told him to sit down and shut up:





"They admitted they were wrong," [Kent State head coach Jim] Andrassy said.
"To be honest, I thought it was wrong, but wasn't one hundred percent sure. It
didn't seem right. We asked them to watch the match over again, they did, and
came back and confirmed the score was wrong. They made the decision to keep it
the way it is.


"My emotions, with everything we have now a days with technology … we got
ESPN here and stuff like that and still can't get it
right," he added. "If it's a bad call, you accept it. But to not get a score
right … this wasn't one of those things in the first or second period, they
missed it in the last seven seconds. It's hard to swallow."


Andrassy also noted he was sat back down at one point when he did realize the
score was wrong.


"As soon as we left the mat, there was nothing we could do about it was the
answer we got," he said. "In our defense as a staff, you get caught up in the
mat. I knew the score was wrong, went to the head table, but the side
ref said I was wrong and sat me down."

 

[FrontRange]

As he said, you would think they could get it right

with the technology available. Reading this, it sucks even more.

 

[Tom McAndrew]

I saw Andrassy's interview last night ...


and decided to sleep on it before posting.

there was also a short video showing the sequence of events on the mat. The ref was in some of the video, but not all of it, so it's difficult to draw too many conclusions. unfortunately, none of the videos on Flo have the discussion at the table or the discussion with Andrassy and the refs.

in the video of the sequence, it looks as though Realbuto went for an optional restart, which is basically giving an esc to the opponent. It does not appear that the ref signaled the 1 point at that time, but I stress that it's hard to know for sure from what was posted on Flo.

as PSUranger indicated, any good scorer should know right away that you can have a TD, then a restart, and another TD for the same wrestler without there being an Esc in between. In the event of no signal (if that's what happened; again, not certain), the table should have buzzed the ref to review/verify what was awarded.

This event does expose a few weaknesses in the process.

1. the ref does not keep score on the mat. they usually know who is winning, but not a lot more. when they realize that one guy is way ahead, they'll try to sneak a peak to the score to see how close it is to a TF, but the ref's focus at almost all times is on the wrestlers, and not to be keeping track of the score
2. the official scorer at the table has to be good. I'm pretty sure at Nationals that they don't just pull folks off the streets to sit at the table. I believe that you have to qualify, in part by working a number of events including a college league championship. The timer and the scorer have to notify the ref if there is a question about points awarded. It does not appear that this happened, but again it's not something that is on the short video sequence.
3. the coaches are in a bit of a bind. Their focus is also on the mat. In general, they do keep rough track of the score -- far more than the ref -- but in crazy sequences like the end of the Miller - Realbuto match, they can lose track of the points

The committee head who was interviewed by Flo seems like an ass, but he does appear to be technically correct. This is an issue that should have been addressed mat-side, not after the event. However, as my above weaknesses point out, following the scoring awarded on the scoreboard is not a focus of the ref, and not a main focus of the coaches, so while technically correct that the coach should have challenged the score, putting it all on the coach is not all that fair, IMHO. Perhaps the committee will change the rules a bit for next year, or perhaps coaching staffs will start having one of the assistants be responsible for keeping a manual track of the scoring to ensure that the scoreboard is correct/that the ref has signaled the correct points, etc.

Interestingly, in high school matches the ref signs the scorebooks kept by both teams. The book maintainers are instructed to converse throughout the match between themselves and the scoreboard operator to make sure that everyone is in agreement as to what the ref signaled/what should be on the scoreboard. Any uncertainty/disagreements are supposed to be resolved by bringing the ref to the table before the start of the next period. I don't believe they have a similar process in college, which may be part of the problem here, in that there was no check and balance between what was/was not awarded, and what was posted on the scoreboard.

Tom

 

[ptomaselli]

Re: I saw Andrassy's interview last night ...

In other words they all screwed up, had the opportunity to fix it and instead chose to blame it on the coaches. Pretty simple.
Posted from Rivals Mobile

 

[Tom McAndrew]

you got that from my post? ...


if you did, then you didn't read what I posted all that well.

It's not "pretty simple." It's actually somewhat complex, and there are gaps in what we know at this time.

In the big picture, the process did not work as it should have. That said, this had to be resolved on the mat. Once the staff/wrestler/refs leave the mat, the chances of the committee changing the outcome are slim to none. If the Kent State staff had questions, then they should have resolved them at the mat. If they didn't feel as though their concerns were being addressed, they could have sent an assistant coach to the main table, but neither Miller nor the Kent State head coach should have left the mat. The refs could have reversed the outcome matside, if they had resolved that the score was incorrect and the match should have not gone into SV, even after the SV period and the lifting of Realbuto's arm.

Tom

 

[ptomaselli]

Re: you got that from my post? ...

Originally posted by Tom McAndrew:

if you did, then you didn't read what I posted all that well.

It's not "pretty simple." It's actually somewhat complex, and there are gaps in what we know at this time.

In the big picture, the process did not work as it should have. That said, this had to be resolved on the mat. Once the staff/wrestler/refs leave the mat, the chances of the committee changing the outcome are slim to none. If the Kent State staff had questions, then they should have resolved them at the mat. If they didn't feel as though their concerns were being addressed, they could have sent an assistant coach to the main table, but neither Miller nor the Kent State head coach should have left the mat. The refs could have reversed the outcome matside, if they had resolved that the score was incorrect and the match should have not gone into SV, even after the SV period and the lifting of Realbuto's arm.

Tom

You are just not getting it. If you've ever needed the government or worked for a large multinational conglomerate you'll understand almost no process works as it should always. (Wait til you retire and try to get social security and medicare set up properly.)

They set up all these processes to "help" people. In the end, someone always gets eff'd bad and then trying to fix it, all you hear from the people in charge (as they shrug their shoulders) is "the rules are the rules". That's what you are saying. "The coaches shoulda...blah blah blah". They had a rule in place precisely to catch the shyte that falls into the bit bucket. And when the shyte fell into the bit bucket, they shrunk like they bureaucrats they are.

 

[Tom McAndrew]

well, I'll agree to disagree ...


I don't think there's a big difference between our opinions, but I don't agree with your summary conclusions.

this is my last post in the thread, unless it gets hijacked.

Tom

 

[jammenz]

The committee botched it by citing the wrong rule. The video review challenge was not intended to correct faulty scorekeeping.
This rule is: "3.11.2 Error by Timekeeper and/or Scorers.

Any error not resolved by the referee shall be arbitrated by the
tournament committee."

If the committee believes that the video review challenge supercedes this rule then they will have to remove it from the rule book and revamp the challenge procedure. You certainly can't prevent a coach from challenging a scoring error because he has no challenges left to use.