more MSU stuff...

[acg116]

https://www.usatoday.com/story/spor...ichigan-state-basketball-tom-izzo/1076657001/

The brenda tracy comments are pretty damning. Conversely, when she spoke to Penn State she said "I was really impressed with the young men from Penn State"

http://www.collegian.psu.edu/football/article_11decce0-84f4-11e7-b816-c7c9f2ac6568.html

 

[bxle]

For the time being, MSU needs to de-emphasize sports and focus on the many victims.

 

[LemonEars]

https://www.usatoday.com/story/spor...ichigan-state-basketball-tom-izzo/1076657001/

The brenda tracy comments are pretty damning. Conversely, when she spoke to Penn State she said "I was really impressed with the young men from Penn State"

http://www.collegian.psu.edu/football/article_11decce0-84f4-11e7-b816-c7c9f2ac6568.html

This is such a heinous situation that the Michigan State culture needs to be torn down and rebuilt. That means that Dantonio, Narduzzi, and Izzo have to go. All 3 have to be thrown into the scrap bin and new people hired. There is no other choice.

Note that Narduzzi is in damage control mode. See link. He says this "is some other university's situation" in an attempt to deflect attention from the 8 years he spent there while the heinous situation was occurring.

# NarduzziKnew

 

[auxgym]

https://www.usatoday.com/story/spor...ichigan-state-basketball-tom-izzo/1076657001/

The brenda tracy comments are pretty damning. Conversely, when she spoke to Penn State she said "I was really impressed with the young men from Penn State"

http://www.collegian.psu.edu/football/article_11decce0-84f4-11e7-b816-c7c9f2ac6568.html

I'm thinking it's not a good sign when your former AD sez you have a culture problem either.........

Link: http://www.detroitnews.com/story/ne...8/01/29/baker-msu-cultural-problem/109929212/

 

[Zenophile]

For the time being, MSU needs to de-emphasize sports and focus on the many victims.

Michigan State should focus on the work of rebuilding its athletic culture without worrying about whether or not it's going to a bowl game.

 

[sss]

I thought the basketball team was going to keep playing and winning to help the victims heal.

 

[NittPicker]

I thought the basketball team was going to keep playing and winning to help the victims heal.

Nothing says "culture problem" like someone thinking their basketball team is so awesome that victims of sexual assault will start to feel better just because said basketball team wins a few games. That kind of thinking assumes the victims are sheep who are caught up in the same glorification of basketball.

On the flip side, Penn State critics said our football team competing was an insult to the victims. We were lucky to be playing, blah, blah, blah.

 

[83wuzme]

I would bet that the things going on with MSU MBB and football are fairly common. That doesn’t make it right, of course. There are a lot of universities where worse things have happened and are happening and we don’t know only because it isn’t being investigated and reported.

 

[sss]

I would bet that the things going on with MSU MBB and football are fairly common. That doesn’t make it right, of course. There are a lot of universities where worse things have happened and are happening and we don’t know only because it isn’t being investigated and reported.

You are correct. No school wants to be investigated for Clery violations. Schools like to deal with things "in-house" to avoid bad publicity. Happens at big schools and small schools.

 

[michnittlion]

Nothing says "culture problem" like someone thinking their basketball team is so awesome that victims of sexual assault will start to feel better just because said basketball team wins a few games. That kind of thinking assumes the victims are sheep who are caught up in the same glorification of basketball.

On the flip side, Penn State critics said our football team competing was an insult to the victims. We were lucky to be playing, blah, blah, blah.

Dumb comment by Izzo ... but tough to criticize given that (unfortunately, this was a very dumb comment) Franklin talked about the "healing process" himself after the 2016 OSU win.

"The former players, the lettermen, this town has been through a lot. So, this is the start of our healing process tonight. I couldn’t be prouder."

 

[acg116]

Dumb comment by Izzo ... but tough to criticize given that (unfortunately, this was a very dumb comment) Franklin talked about the "healing process" himself after the 2016 OSU win.

"The former players, the lettermen, this town has been through a lot. So, this is the start of our healing process tonight. I couldn’t be prouder."

True. Of course franklin himself wasn’t accused of being part of the problem.

 

[pandaczar12]

Wouldn't Nick Saban have been there during some of this?

 

[Howie'81]

Dumb comment by Izzo ... but tough to criticize given that (unfortunately, this was a very dumb comment) Franklin talked about the "healing process" himself after the 2016 OSU win.

"The former players, the lettermen, this town has been through a lot. So, this is the start of our healing process tonight. I couldn’t be prouder."

Were you there that night? I was and it was the most happiness that that town had had in several years so I totally and fully understand Franklin's comment in the context of that particular evening. So your comparison is very wanting in my opinion.

 

[michnittlion]

Were you there that night? I was and it was the most happiness that that town had had in several years so I totally and fully understand Franklin's comment in the context of that particular evening. So your comparison is very wanting in my opinion.

Why would I have to have been there? I was happy myself (amidst being sick that day, I wasn't able to go out to watch, watched from my couch). 450 miles away in Southwest Ohio, mind you.

Just don't mention "healing process" at all. Simple as that. I don't think Franklin should be fired for the comment, but no need to go there. Going there was a case of Franklin speaking before thinking to use a filter.

"The former players, the letterman, the town, our alums, our fans - this is a huge win for the program. Our future looks bright. I couldn't be prouder." FULL STOP. Same sentiment, just differently said.

 

[Howie'81]

Why would I have to have been there? I was happy myself (amidst being sick that day, I wasn't able to go out to watch, watched from my couch). 450 miles away in Southwest Ohio, mind you.

Just don't mention "healing process" at all. Simple as that. I don't think Franklin should be fired for the comment, but no need to go there. Going there was a case of Franklin speaking before thinking to use a filter.

"The former players, the letterman, the town, our alums, our fans - this is a huge win for the program. Our future looks bright. I couldn't be prouder." FULL STOP. Same sentiment, just differently said.

See, that's the problem today michnittlion. Everything is filtered. It's quite refreshing if his statement wasn't filtered because that makes it very likely the truth. And whether it was said or not, there was a LOT of healing, emotionally, that took place that night. You sound like a lawyer. Either that or some politically correct phony.

 

[86Engineer]

See, that's the problem today michnittlion. Everything is filtered. It's quite refreshing if his statement wasn't filtered because that makes it very likely the truth. And whether it was said or not, there was a LOT of healing, emotionally, that took place that night. You sound like a lawyer. Either that or some politically correct phony.

I'll go with phony.

 

[Woodpecker]

I thought the basketball team was going to keep playing and winning to help the victims heal.

Great! So Penn State is playing FOR abuse tomorrow night?

 

[LurkerLazarus]

Michnitt doesn't really want a healing process. He doesn't want the world to be reminded that PSU was squashed down, and is now back up. And he really doesn't want Franklin to have this much success.

 

[michnittlion]

See, that's the problem today michnittlion. Everything is filtered. It's quite refreshing if his statement wasn't filtered because that makes it very likely the truth. And whether it was said or not, there was a LOT of healing, emotionally, that took place that night. You sound like a lawyer. Either that or some politically correct phony.

OK ...... how did that 2016 OSU victory help you personally "heal"? And what were you "healing from" anyway?

As for me ---- we won a big football game. That made me VERY HAPPY. It didn't do anything more than that.

 

[michnittlion]

Michnitt doesn't really want a healing process. He doesn't want the world to be reminded that PSU was squashed down, and is now back up. And he really doesn't want Franklin to have this much success.

"Healing processes" are great ----- if/when you suffer an event you actually have to heal from. E.g., the death of a loved one, or the unexpected loss of a job, or being the victim of a crime, et cetera.

What exactly did any of "normal PSU alum", "former players", "the letterman", or "the town" (the latter 3 are groups that Franklin specifically mentioned) have to heal from during the 2010s?

 

[Howie'81]

OK ...... how did that 2016 OSU victory help you personally "heal"? And what were you "healing from" anyway?

As for me ---- we won a big football game. That made me VERY HAPPY. It didn't do anything more than that.

Well then that makes you a callous fool because Penn State football is about more than football. It's about school spirit, it's about the blue and the white, it's about doing things as well as they can be done. In many ways, it's the face of a great University. Even the late Keith Jackson said that the big difference between pro and college football is "spirit."

Penn State football represents the University. The same University that I went to and loved. To see my school and its great football program and its great coach castigated because of the errors of a very few hurt and yes it wounded deeply. Many here will understand what I'm saying. That game announced that the football program could not be beaten down for long, that the spirit of Penn State University was alive and well. That we weren't going to be kicked around anymore. That the unjustified penalties the program suffered couldn't squash what Joe had built. And that brought healing. You don't agree? Too bad! Many here will!

If Penn State football is just a game that you win or lose, then I suggest you stop following it. Stick to pro ball.

 

[Howie'81]

"Healing processes" are great ----- if/when you suffer an event you actually have to heal from. E.g., the death of a loved one, or the unexpected loss of a job, or being the victim of a crime, et cetera.

What exactly did any of "normal PSU alum", "former players", "the letterman", or "the town" (the latter 3 are groups that Franklin specifically mentioned) have to heal from during the 2010s?

Seems to me you need healing from something. I suggest a therapist and also that the first step to recovery is admitting you have a problem.

 

[michnittlion]

Well then that makes you a callous fool because Penn State football is about more than football. It's about school spirit, it's about the blue and the white, it's about doing things as well as they can be done. In many ways, it's the face of a great University. Even the late Keith Jackson said that the big difference between pro and college football is "spirit."

Penn State football represents the University. The same University that I went to and loved. To see my school and its great football program and its great coach castigated because of the errors of a very few hurt and yes it wounded deeply. Many here will understand what I'm saying. That game announced that the football program could not be beaten down for long, that the spirit of Penn State University was alive and well. That we weren't going to be kicked around anymore. That the unjustified penalties the program suffered couldn't squash what Joe had built. And that brought healing. You don't agree? Too bad! Many here will!

If Penn State football is just a game that you win or lose, then I suggest you stop following it. Stick to pro ball.

So if OSU scores a touchdown on their final drive and we lose ------ you would have been "less healed"?

As for "Penn State football representing the University" ------ that's attaching way too much to the football program.

Our 100,000+ alums, the current students, the professors and researchers, ALL the athletic teams, the administration, et cetera. We ALL represent the University. Not just the football team.

 

[BobPSU92]

Wouldn't Nick Saban have been there during some of this?

alabama football needs to be shut down. (With apologies to Josh Gattis.)

 

[Howie'81]

So if OSU scores a touchdown on their final drive and we lose ------ you would have been "less healed"?

Winning that game mattered in terms of perception of the program and how the supporters of the team and University felt afterwards. Don't be obtuse.

 

[michnittlion]

Winning that game mattered in terms of perception of the program and how the supporters of the team and University felt afterwards. Don't be obtuse.

So your life is now materially better because we beat OSU in 2016? I'm going to assume yes, since that game helped you "heal" (from some traumatic event in your past).

As for me - it was a great win. Nothing more. The sun would have still risen in the eastern sky the next morning if we had lost, though.

Even my trip to Indianapolis for the B1G title game where I had a great time --- perhaps I would have done something else cool that weekend if OSU won (and they instead played in the Title Game). I don't buy that particular argument for the PSU win improving my life.

 

[BobPSU92]

Were you there that night? I was and it was the most happiness that that town had had in several years so I totally and fully understand Franklin's comment in the context of that particular evening. So your comparison is very wanting in my opinion.

Don't expect michidiot to understand context. Furthermore, don't expect him to understand or admit that no alleged sandusky victims held Joe Paterno or the football program responsible for what happened.

Obviously Franklin did not mean that winning a big football game would erase what sandusky did. However, the Penn State community was also harmed, and unfairly at that, and needed something to feel good about. Penn Staters also knew there was nothing wrong with the football program, but success in football was an opportunity to show the world on a big stage that Penn State could survive and thrive. There had been several great Penn State moments since November 2011, but that Tosu game was the greatest to that point. It was a big part of the community's healing process, a community that did nothing wrong and was unfairly harmed. It was an opportunity to celebrate Penn State. It was good for a lot of people. It obviously hurt no one.

We should be celebrating Penn State. Yes, some bad actors are still around (barren, bot), but there is much good going on at Penn State every day, and obviously not just in the athletic department.

WE ARE!

 

[Howie'81]

So your life is now materially better because we beat OSU in 2016? I'm going to assume yes, since that game helped you "heal" (from some traumatic event in your past).

As for me - it was a great win. Nothing more. The sun would have still risen in the eastern sky the next morning if we had lost, though.

Even my trip to Indianapolis for the B1G title game where I had a great time --- perhaps I would have done something else cool that weekend if OSU won (and they instead played in the Title Game). I don't buy that particular argument for the PSU win improving my life.

You're being obtuse again. You shouldn't be pulling for a team.

 

[Howie'81]

Don't expect michidiot to understand context. Furthermore, don't expect him to understand or admit that no alleged sandusky victims held Joe Paterno or the football program responsible for what happened.

Obviously Franklin did not mean that winning a big football game would erase what sandusky did. However, the Penn State community was also harmed, and unfairly at that, and needed something to feel good about. Penn Staters also knew there was nothing wrong with the football program, but success in football was an opportunity to show the world on a big stage that Penn State could survive and thrive. There had been several great Penn State moments since November 2011, but that Tosu game was the greatest to that point. It was a big part of the community's healing process, a community that did nothing wrong and was unfairly harmed. It was an opportunity to celebrate Penn State. It was good for a lot of people. It obviously hurt no one.

We should be celebrating Penn State. Yes, some bad actors are still around (barren, bot), but there is much good going on at Penn State every day, and obviously not just in the athletic department.

WE ARE!

You said it better than me. You are EXACTLY correct.

 

[demlion]

"Healing processes" are great ----- if/when you suffer an event you actually have to heal from. E.g., the death of a loved one, or the unexpected loss of a job, or being the victim of a crime, et cetera.

What exactly did any of "normal PSU alum", "former players", "the letterman", or "the town" (the latter 3 are groups that Franklin specifically mentioned) have to heal from during the 2010s?

So, at least you concede that the healing process he was talking about was for the team and the letterman and the town, NOT for the victims. That's a start. Not too tough since that is exactly what he said. OK.

For you to suggest that the team, the lettermen and the town have not suffered as a result of the bogus way in which PSU football players, lettermen, and people of St College and the entire fanbase and students were blamed for a problem which none of them caused, is simply ridiculous.

My daughter went to PSU. She graduated in 2014. She an friends of hers had job interviews in which they had to field questions about Sandusky.

The players for PSU at all times since 2011 were at most highschoolers in 2001. They had nothing in this, did nothing wrong even in your most twisted fantasies. So, yeah, it caused them pain. And YEAH, whipping OSU made some people feel they could hold their heads up again.

You are pathetic, bro.

 

[michnittlion]

So, at least you concede that the healing process he was talking about was for the team and the letterman and the town, NOT for the victims. That's a start. Not too tough since that is exactly what he said. OK.

For you to suggest that the team, the lettermen and the town have not suffered as a result of the bogus way in which PSU football players, lettermen, and people of St College and the entire fanbase and students were blamed for a problem which none of them caused, is simply ridiculous.

The 2012-2013 teams missed a Bowl Game and a chance to compete for the B1G title. Yep. They did suffer a penalty. Given OSU's ineligibility, we likely would have won the B1G in 2012 (we finished 2 games ahead of Wisconsin, who did win the title).

I do feel a bit sorry for players on those teams that were also here in 2011 --- and I don't pay too much attention to people who say "well, they could have just transferred." Many of them were established at PSU at the time and didn't want to move. If there's any single group of PSU folk I sympathize with as regards the Sandusky affair, it is this subset of football players.

But, those 2012-2013 teams, did they need to heal? Besides - how does a win in 2016 (4+ years later!) help heal that injustice (if one wants to call it an injustice)? And how were their Bowl/B1G title penalties any different from Buckeye players on the 2012 OSU team who had nothing to do with tattoo-gate? Or different from the numerous other examples of such? If you argue that our 2016 win against OSU helped our 2012-2013 teams, couldn't you ALSO argue that OSU's 2013 victory over us (in which Urban was arguably running up the score) helped their 2012 team heal from their "injustice"?

The lettermen? They suffered and needed to heal? These are grown men, none of whom were indicted directly in the Freeh Report or the NCAA sanctions. They had nothing to heal from.

The fanbase? We suffered and needed to heal? Yes, Emmert's "culture comment" was stupid and a cheap shot. But if any PSU fan isn't able to handle idiotic MSU/OSU/U-M/Pitt/fill-in-the-blank fans who have a "my tribe is better than your tribe, all PSU folk are cult members" attitude, they need to get tougher. A person is weak if they can't handle the verbal abuse those neanderthals are/were dishing out.

The town of State College? The town suffered and needed to heal? State College is just fine. Just as it has always been.

Lastly - Coach Franklin? He hasn't suffered - he lives a damn good life. And didn't have anything to heal from either. This was a job he willingly took. I don't feel sorry for him as regards the Sandusky affair.

My daughter went to PSU. She graduated in 2014. She an friends of hers had job interviews in which they had to field questions about Sandusky.

Sounds like she and her friends got lucky. You don't often get such obvious "huge red flags" from a boss/company in the interview process that they and their company isn't worth working for.

The players for PSU at all times since 2011 were at most highschoolers in 2001. They had nothing in this, did nothing wrong even in your most twisted fantasies. So, yeah, it caused them pain. And YEAH, whipping OSU made some people feel they could hold their heads up again.

None of the freshmen on 2013 or later teams had to attend PSU (the 2012 freshmen fall into the group above, who I do feel some sympathy for). All those 2013-and-later freshmen chose their "pain", as it is.

You are pathetic, bro.

I wonder - is this the first time a 55+ year old man has ever used the term "bro"?

 

[colt21]

Why would I have to have been there? I was happy myself (amidst being sick that day, I wasn't able to go out to watch, watched from my couch). 450 miles away in Southwest Ohio, mind you.

Just don't mention "healing process" at all. Simple as that. I don't think Franklin should be fired for the comment, but no need to go there. Going there was a case of Franklin speaking before thinking to use a filter.

"The former players, the letterman, the town, our alums, our fans - this is a huge win for the program. Our future looks bright. I couldn't be prouder." FULL STOP. Same sentiment, just differently said.

Wow, I don't believe I'm doing this but I have to go with Michy on this one .....don't mention it. "Healing" and the success of athletics have nothing to do with each other.

But I'll also add that the BEST perspective would have been to not have to "heal" in the first place. In the case of PSU, the athletic teams had absolutely NOTHING to do with the JS situation (I won't rehash that again).

But unfortunately for MSU, it appears as if the athletics culture had a lot to do with their situation.

 

[Zenophile]

Great! So Penn State is playing FOR abuse tomorrow night?

[Sigh]

 

[Howie'81]

Wow, I don't believe I'm doing this but I have to go with Michy on this one .....don't mention it. "Healing" and the success of athletics have nothing to do with each other.

But I'll also add that the BEST perspective would have been to not have to "heal" in the first place. In the case of PSU, the athletic teams had absolutely NOTHING to do with the JS situation (I won't rehash that again).

But unfortunately for MSU, it appears as if the athletics culture had a lot to do with their situation.

You should have stayed on the side of light, not darkness.

 

[michnittlion]

You should have stayed on the side of light, not darkness.

This statement lays your caveman-like tribalism bare.

PSU good, MSU bad. Howie'81 good, michnittlion bad. Franklin good, Urban bad. Paternos good, BoT bad. Et cetera.

There are a lot of good things about Franklin. But his 2016 comment post-OSU was not well thought out.

 

[Howie'81]

This statement lays your caveman-like tribalism bare.

PSU good, MSU bad. Howie'81 good, michnittlion bad. Franklin good, Urban bad. Paternos good, BoT bad. Et cetera.

There are a lot of good things about Franklin. But his 2016 comment post-OSU was not well thought out.

Kind of like your posts, eh?

 

[michnittlion]

Kind of like your posts, eh?

I am aware of your (ALL things michnittlion posts = bad) worldview, yes.

 

[demlion]

The 2012-2013 teams missed a Bowl Game and a chance to compete for the B1G title. Yep. They did suffer a penalty. We likely would have won the B1G in 2012 without the sanctions.

I do feel a bit sorry for players on those teams that were also here in 2011 --- and I don't pay too much attention to people who say "well, they could have just transferred." Many of them were established at PSU at the time and didn't want to move. If there's any single group of PSU folk I sympathize with as regards the Sandusky affair, it is this subset of football players.

But, those 2012-2013 teams, did they need to heal? How does a win in 2016 (4+ years later!) help heal that injustice (if one wants to call it an injustice)? And how were their Bowl/B1G title penalties any different from Buckeye players on the 2012 OSU team who had nothing to do with tattoo-gate? Or different from the numerous other examples of such?

The lettermen? They suffered and needed to heal? These are grown men, none of whom were indicted directly in the Freeh Report or the NCAA sanctions. They had nothing to heal from.

The fanbase? We suffered and needed to heal? Yes, Emmert's "culture comment" was stupid and a cheap shot. But if any PSU fan isn't able to handle idiotic MSU/OSU/U-M/Pitt/fill-in-the-blank fans who have a "my tribe is better than your tribe, all PSU folk are cult members" attitude, they need to get tougher. A person is weak if they can't handle the verbal abuse those neanderthals are/were dishing out.

The town of State College? The town suffered and needed to heal? State College is just fine. Just as it has always been.

Lastly - Coach Franklin? He hasn't suffered - he lives a damn good life. And didn't have anything to heal from either. This was a job he willingly took. I don't feel sorry for him as regards the Sandusky affair.



Sounds like she and her friends got lucky. You don't often get such obvious "huge red flags" from a boss/company in the interview process that they and their company isn't worth working for.



None of the freshmen on 2013 or later teams had to attend PSU (the 2012 freshmen fall into the group above, who I do feel some sympathy for). All those 2013-and-later freshmen chose their "pain", as it is.



I wonder - is this the first time a 55+ year old man has ever used the term "bro"?

Can't be. I have used it twice today, bro.

The players who came to PSU in 2012 on, have ALL labored under a stigma. Christian Hackenberg got the mortal shit beat out of him because we did not have enough scholarships to recruit and coach up a decent line with depth to protect him. The players who were on that team in 12, were mostly lettermen by 2016. You do not believe that the sanctions diminished their experience? Fool.

Hack verbally committed BEFORE the sanctions, then stuck with his commitment afterwards. I know you think that makes him seem like a dupe, but you are wrong. He was a guy with great CHARACTER, something in short supply in Michigan these days. No shock you would fail to recognize it.

Losers like yourself predicted great failure at PSU after the sanctions hit. You got proved dead wrong. Half the big 10 would trade our record for their own in those years. But these were good FB players who were shortchanged by the gutless NCAA. Yeah, they need some wins. They need people to understand how they got screwed.

Did Franklin say it was like the pain of losing a child? Or being raped by Larry Nassar? No, he just said it was the start of a process of healing. We are OVERCOMING this bullshit. That was going to feel good whenever we did it.

Izzo, on the other hand, tried to lamely say that his team was helping the victims. This after NASSAR pled guilty and Izzo said he "hoped they got the right guy."

Like I said: pathetic, bro.

 

[Howie'81]

I am aware of your (ALL things michnittlion posts = bad) worldview, yes.

Now you're getting warm.

 

[kgilbert78]

The fanbase? We suffered and needed to heal? Yes, Emmert's "culture comment" was stupid and a cheap shot. But if any PSU fan isn't able to handle idiotic MSU/OSU/U-M/Pitt/fill-in-the-blank fans who have a "my tribe is better than your tribe, all PSU folk are cult members" attitude, they need to get tougher. A person is weak if they can't handle the verbal abuse those neanderthals are/were dishing out.

In a number of cases it was more than verbal--I had slashed tires, for one--and no longer have PSU logos on my car.