My niece has chosen Syracuse over Dear Old State
- Thread starter olelion
- Start date
Yeah, that didn't come out quite right.He's done very well and deserves everything he's earned. And JH is a great school, for sure. But he really liked PSU (and my wife and I are alumni), so I was a little surprised and disappointed at the disparity of aid. He's our oldest, so it was a bit of a shock to us as first-timers.
Completely understandable. I was just kidding around a bit. I shared a story about my brother ultimately choosing Villanova for the same reason. I just think it's unbelievable that kids are choosing prestigious private schools BECAUSE it's cheaper.
My daughter is at PSU, in-state tuition and it still hurts.
I would not mind it so much if the quality of instruction increased with the tuition. My biggest complaint is the math department. It is downright awful and has been for at least 30 years. Most of the instructors seem to be foreign grad students with poor english skills, no teaching experience and bad attitudes. The general consensus among my daughter and her peers is that you get much better instruction at a community college for Math 140 and 141 (Calc I and II) than you do at University Park.
I don't mind paying more a product if the quality improves. I don't see an improvement at PSU, but I am paying more.
I would not mind it so much if the quality of instruction increased with the tuition. My biggest complaint is the math department. It is downright awful and has been for at least 30 years. Most of the instructors seem to be foreign grad students with poor english skills, no teaching experience and bad attitudes. The general consensus among my daughter and her peers is that you get much better instruction at a community college for Math 140 and 141 (Calc I and II) than you do at University Park.
I don't mind paying more a product if the quality improves. I don't see an improvement at PSU, but I am paying more.
It's not the BoT, it's the administration, which makes the problem far more persistent.
Glad you brought that up:
I'm still compiling the current year numbers, but here is where they stand as of the 10 (out of 13) Big Ten Public Universities who's data is available:
"Of the 10 Big ten Universities with publically available financial statements, Penn State ($318 Million) ranks 4th highest in state appropriations. Well above the average of $268 Million:
Northwestern is a Private University.
Information from Maryland, Indiana, and Minnesota was not publically available for each separate state University."
If you're up for compiling data I'd like to see what the percentage of budget those numbers are for each college, and how that has changed on an annual basis. Straight dollar amount isn't a good indicator when you don't know how big the whole "pie" is.
For example PSU's operating budget for 2017-2018 is $5.7 Billion, while UMD is $2.09 Billion.
Last edited:
My kid had to slum it at Lehigh . It was cheaper with his total aid package.
Of course he was just some clown with app 24 or so credits from AP science and math tests . Took the slacker five whole years to get his masters in ME.
Doubt he would have cut it at PSU, sarcasm intended .
So I get the OP’s frustration . PSU just isn’t a value anymore . Oh and we were in state so it was less expensive than the OP.
Of course he was just some clown with app 24 or so credits from AP science and math tests . Took the slacker five whole years to get his masters in ME.
Doubt he would have cut it at PSU, sarcasm intended .
So I get the OP’s frustration . PSU just isn’t a value anymore . Oh and we were in state so it was less expensive than the OP.
Good summing up for this thread, I guess.
BoT doesn't create the attitude, particularly at an individual level. My brother, who was once a significant contributor, observed that as his contacts were higher placed in the administration, the degree of contempt became more palpable. Hate to imagine what might have happened had he a sit-down with Indiana Fats.
I recall once reading that Maryland College Park has a cap on the number of out-of-state students they will accept. I haven't been able to find a link along these lines and have instead found some WaPo articles which lead me to believe that no such cap exists. Regardless, Maryland CP is 76% in-state.
https://irpa.umd.edu/CampusCounts/Enrollments/stuprofile_allug.pdf
Glad you brought that up:
I'm still compiling the current year numbers, but here is where they stand as of the 10 (out of 13) Big Ten Public Universities who's data is available:
"Of the 10 Big ten Universities with publically available financial statements, Penn State ($318 Million) ranks 4th highest in state appropriations. Well above the average of $268 Million:
Northwestern is a Private University.
Information from Maryland, Indiana, and Minnesota was not publically available for each separate state University."
So Wisconsin, with less than half the population of PA and, with a state GDP also less than half of PA, appropriates slightly more $$ than PA.
Could everyone post..................actual numbers of the PSU cost in/out versus the net net of the other colleges for ................real life costs..........thanks in advance.
In PA............most small colleges can give 5, 10, even 15k of list. It is called marketing as their retail price is often severely .............inflated.
In PA............most small colleges can give 5, 10, even 15k of list. It is called marketing as their retail price is often severely .............inflated.
You can analyze numbers until you are blue in the face (or somewhere else for that matter) and you're unlikely to hone in on any one thing. There are other contributing, and mitigating factors. Until the Administration can say it has done all it can, including developing better relations with Harrisburg, it has met the problem and it is them (with apologies to Walt Kelly).
Similar story for my son. He applied to 7 top-notch schools and Penn State was the only
school not to offer any scholarship money. Two of his friends also applied to Penn State. These
are all kids who were top 5-10% in their class and had SAT scores of 1450 or higher and ACT scores of 33 or higher. No financial incentive offered at all from PSU. So, he will be attending Texas and we will be paying $10K tuition per year instead of $32K.
school not to offer any scholarship money. Two of his friends also applied to Penn State. These
are all kids who were top 5-10% in their class and had SAT scores of 1450 or higher and ACT scores of 33 or higher. No financial incentive offered at all from PSU. So, he will be attending Texas and we will be paying $10K tuition per year instead of $32K.
Everybody surprised by these anecdotes, please raise your hands. Then punch yourself in the face, because you deserve it for being so stupid.
AMEN. Got AP credit for 140 in HS but man my 141 Prof was awful. Didnt do anything but proofs in class, was a dick in office hours and had no sense of humor, treated the kids like garbage. I remember the first quiz on volumes of rotation by disks or shells. I knew what I was doing but didnt read the directions correctly and did the opposite method for each problem. Got my test back, grade on top said 96/2 = 48. Told me I got a 96% but didnt do it the correct method so I got a 48. Prof had a hard on for me all semester, critiqued my HW and tests much harder than anyone else. Ended up with a B because of this one grade with A's on the other two midterms, the final and HW grades.
What a poor impression to start my college experience.
There is zero leadership at PSU. Barron is a poor imitation of Dean Wormer.
The old guard of the Trustees are just plain corrupt in their failure to lead.
Right now it is financial mess and nothing but political football.
With Joe we were a family. Now it is shut up and do what we tell you.
With Graham we were chasing NW and Michigan on academics.
Now we are sliding down each year.
Long ago we abandoned the original mission of being for the working class.
I’m ok with that because we have a very good state system at a lower price point.
BUT if that is the case, then let’s chase after the best and the brightest.
Empty some of that endowment and give the smartest kids some cash.
Barron’s vision is Florida State. That’s a disaster.
The old guard of the Trustees are just plain corrupt in their failure to lead.
Right now it is financial mess and nothing but political football.
With Joe we were a family. Now it is shut up and do what we tell you.
With Graham we were chasing NW and Michigan on academics.
Now we are sliding down each year.
Long ago we abandoned the original mission of being for the working class.
I’m ok with that because we have a very good state system at a lower price point.
BUT if that is the case, then let’s chase after the best and the brightest.
Empty some of that endowment and give the smartest kids some cash.
Barron’s vision is Florida State. That’s a disaster.
Not sure whether (or how) it factors in but I think Wisconsin also has a recicpocity relationship with Minnesota such that students from either state get in-state tuition from either school.UW Madison's appropriation per student is approx 25% higher than PSU's.
UW Madison is one of the highest, and - as the data posted shows - PSU is well above average (in State appropriations) than in its peer group.
UW also has in-state tuition of $10,500
(That's about 1/2 of PSU, for those keeping score. No matter where you put the goalposts - the score remains the same)
54% of UW Students were from the top 10% of their HS Graduating Class.
(about the same as Pitt's 52%)
36% of PSU Students were from the top 10% of their HS Graduating Class.
UW Students have an average SAT score of 1290 (688/602)
(about the same as Pitt's 1274 (649/625) )
PSU Students have an average SAT score of 1190 (612/588)
Thanks for the info. It's sad to hear so many stories of people having their kids apply and getting no financial aid offers in the end.
I work in the industry, I know how this all works, and there's no question that competition for top students is increasing every year. Colleges in the northeast especially are going to have to substantially up their financial aid spend over the next 50 years if they are to survive, as population shifts are changing the game--there won't be enough students to go around to support all of these schools up and down the NE corridor. You are already seeing schools being impacted by this. The smart ones are being proactive about it.
As for the endowment numbers, they don't tell the whole story for the reasons that others have already stated. I did undergrad at PSU and my grad degree at Maryland. I also covered higher education for several years. The two universities/systems are very, very different. I am still not sure how Penn State's dedicated financial aid spend/budget stacks up to Maryland's.
Our daughter got into Shreyer a few years ago, and really liked PSU but Shreyer only gave about a $3500 yearly grant (it might be a little more now).
So.. she ended up going to the University of Pennsylvania, which commits the dollars to meet 100% of demonstrated financial need with grants.
The net cost for Penn was less -- a LOT less -- than Penn State. Strange but true.
If you've got a kid who has what it takes to get into the Ivies, and you are a middle class family, the Ivies are a great deal.
A
anon_xdc8rmuek44eq
Guest
What's the incentive for Penn State? Don't they already get tons and tons of applications? Having bright, award winning graduates is a nice feather in the cap, but doesn't seem to compare (in the eyes of the BOT) to a healthy revenue stream driven by OOS students willing to pay full boat.
My niece applied to Lehigh as well. She hadn't he
My niece was also accepted to Cornell but the $ plus proximity to her family made Maryland a no-brainer. Regardless, it's a shame PennState can't (or won't) do anything to attract some of these kids.
My daughter was accepted to PSU - Schreyers and as stated by many above, not much in way of assistance for an out of Stater... Ended up at Southern Cal and just finished up her major (IR) in 3 years, still needs a few more credits for her minor (Business).. Would have loved for her to have gone to PSU, as I had always longed to go there many years ago. Was no where smart enough and instead joined the Navy and after that have traveled the world with the State Dept.
My GF's son will be attending VT for engineering in the fall. They are residents of NJ. I asked if they ever considered PSU and she told me that PSU out of state total cost of attendance was around $20K more per year than VT. I was really shocked to hear that.
Keeping with this theme, my daughter is graduating from HS in a few weeks and never even applied to PSU as she does not view it with the awe and respect many of us did when we graduated from HS. I will add one thing that IMO is related but others may not - we were at the Blue White game and the behavior in the parking lots with respect to trash strewn from one end of the lot to the other was a disgrace. At the risk of making a gross generalization, young people today claim to be concerned about the planet? Not this group at PSU. I was embarrassed by what I saw it was not a handful of tailgaters - it was hundreds upon hundreds of offenders, the vast majority of whom appeared to be students. I felt awful for whoever has to clean that the next day. Really a bad look for PSU and if the students do not have pride in the university why would HS kids have any interest in being part of that?
