NCAA policy on reporting suspected abuse

[Obliviax]

Was going to post this within the various threads regarding Curley, Schultz and Spanier. However, this MUST be emphasised in regard to Paterno.

After several years of investigation, the NCAA published a handbook in 2014 on "Best Practices" learned from the PSU issue. Guess what?:

The handbook also made it clear that athletic department members should immediately report any instances of sexual assault to campus officials for “investigation and adjudication.”

It further states: “Cooperate with but not manage, direct, control or interfere with college or university investigations into allegations of sexual violence ensuring that investigations involving student-athletes and athletics department staff are managed in the same manner as all other students and staff on campus.”
​

Again, this is after YEARS of research by the NCAA and is EXACTLY what Paterno did in 2001.

 

[psuro]

Yeah, but it wasn't their idea or under their direction, so therefore, Joe was wrong.

That's how this works.

 

[BobPSU92]

They're only saying that because Joe runs the ncaa from his grave.

 

[PSU_Nut]

Was going to post this within the various threads regarding Curley, Schultz and Spanier. However, this MUST be emphasised in regard to Paterno.

After several years of investigation, the NCAA published a handbook in 2014 on "Best Practices" learned from the PSU issue. Guess what?:

The handbook also made it clear that athletic department members should immediately report any instances of sexual assault to campus officials for “investigation and adjudication.”

It further states: “Cooperate with but not manage, direct, control or interfere with college or university investigations into allegations of sexual violence ensuring that investigations involving student-athletes and athletics department staff are managed in the same manner as all other students and staff on campus.”
​

Again, this is after YEARS of research by the NCAA and is EXACTLY what Paterno did in 2001.

Well you could make an argument that he did help manage by saying they should talk to Sandusky first. I also don't think waiting until after the weekend to not to ruin anyone's weekend would qualify as immediately reporting it.

 

[Obliviax]

Well you could make an argument that he did help manage by saying they should talk to Sandusky first. I also don't think waiting until after the weekend to not to ruin anyone's weekend would qualify as immediately reporting it.

Wrong and wrong.

If he was asked his opinion and gave it, that's fine. It wasn't his decision to make. And all of the evidence we have shows that Curley, Schultz and Spanier made the decisions. Second, he waited to after the weekend to understand what his responsibilities were. He also had conflicts on this schedule. The fact that MM didn't report it immediately, made it such that reporting it in a minute, hour, day or week didn't make any difference.

 

[WDLion]

Well you could make an argument that he did help manage by saying they should talk to Sandusky first. I also don't think waiting until after the weekend to not to ruin anyone's weekend would qualify as immediately reporting it.

Huh!

 

[Bob78]

Well you could make an argument that he did help manage by saying they should talk to Sandusky first. I also don't think waiting until after the weekend to not to ruin anyone's weekend would qualify as immediately reporting it.

I also don't think waiting until after the weekend to not to ruin anyone's weekend would qualify as immediately reporting it.

Curious statement. No one - except you, I guess - disputes that JVP talked to Tim that weekend.
And simply suggesting that TIM inform JS that a report had been made is not managing the situation. JS already knew that McQ saw him and the boy in the shower, no?
Tim said the decisions were his.

 

[Rip_E_2_Joe_PA]

Huh!

You can't read?

 

[pandaczar12]

Was going to post this within the various threads regarding Curley, Schultz and Spanier. However, this MUST be emphasised in regard to Paterno.

After several years of investigation, the NCAA published a handbook in 2014 on "Best Practices" learned from the PSU issue. Guess what?:

The handbook also made it clear that athletic department members should immediately report any instances of sexual assault to campus officials for “investigation and adjudication.”

It further states: “Cooperate with but not manage, direct, control or interfere with college or university investigations into allegations of sexual violence ensuring that investigations involving student-athletes and athletics department staff are managed in the same manner as all other students and staff on campus.”
​

Again, this is after YEARS of research by the NCAA and is EXACTLY what Paterno did in 2001.

Can you link that handbook, directly to that page?

 

[Obliviax]

Can you link that handbook, directly to that page?

yeah...here

 

[Lion Lineage]

NCAA should add an addendum:

"If a person sees a child being sexually assaulted, do not wait until the next day to inform your football coach of said abuse. Do not inform your football coach at all. Stop the abuse from occurring and then immediately phone the police. Unless, of course, you're not 100% sure of what you saw. Then call your dad and his boss."

 

[pandaczar12]

yeah...here

Thanks, here is a tip for you:

To target an HTML link to a specific page in a PDF file, add #page=[page number] to the end of the link's URL.

Here is the link directly to the page:

http://www.ncaa.org/sites/default/files/Sexual-Violence-Prevention.pdf#page=4

 

[Obliviax]

Thanks, here is a tip for you:

To target an HTML link to a specific page in a PDF file, add #page=[page number] to the end of the link's URL.

Here is the link directly to the page:

http://www.ncaa.org/sites/default/files/Sexual-Violence-Prevention.pdf#page=4

here's tip...if you knew how to do it, google it and do it yourself!

 

[pandaczar12]

here's tip...if you knew how to do it, google it and do it yourself!

Adding a page number to a link is something that many don't know you can do, sorry that passing along a useful tip pissed you off so much, that obviously wasn't my intention.

 

[NittPicker]

NCAA policies can be ignored by the NCAA as they randomly see fit.

 

[psu1969a]

I also don't think waiting until after the weekend to not to ruin anyone's weekend would qualify as immediately reporting it.

Curious statement. No one - except you, I guess - disputes that JVP talked to Tim that weekend.
And simply suggesting that TIM inform JS that a report had been made is not managing the situation. JS already knew that McQ saw him and the boy in the shower, no?
Tim said the decisions were his.

Joe reported it the day after he was informed (Sunday); Curley was out of town when MM made the report to Joe.

 

[PSU_Nut]

Joe reported it the day after he was informed (Sunday); Curley was out of town when MM made the report to Joe.

If only they had these devices that you could communicate with people no matter where they travelled.

 

[Obliviax]

If only they had these devices that you could communicate with people no matter where they travelled.

first, it was 2001. Second, joe didn't email. Third, did you ever see them taking out Joe's beige push button phone out of his house after he'd been fired?

 

[getmyjive11]

If only they had these devices that you could communicate with people no matter where they travelled.

But then they would have to go retrieve such a device. That may mean getting up from the kitchen table while enjoying lunch! I'm not sure that is such a reasonable thing if all it is for is suspected CSA.

 

[Obliviax]

But then they would have to go retrieve such a device. That may mean getting up from the kitchen table while enjoying lunch! I'm not sure that is such a reasonable thing if all it is for is suspected CSA.

Funny...you guys stating Joe didn't report it right away are the same guys making excuses for MM not reporting it right away.

Joe didn't know what to do and told MM this. JS was not an employee of his or of the University. It was, however, on University property and witnessed by a employee of the University and of Joe's. And, it was already 8 hours after the incident, which meant rushing people to the building was a waste of time and might get in the way of a legitimate investigation.

So, as I posted above, Joe did exactly as he should of in 2001 and even if the incident occurred in 2017. Anything beyond that is just made up.

 

[UncleLar]

here's tip...if you knew how to do it, google it and do it yourself!

Here's another tip for you. When you have an opportunity to teach some one to fish rather than just feeding them, take advantage of it.

 

[getmyjive11]

Funny...you guys stating Joe didn't report it right away are the same guys making excuses for MM not reporting it right away.

Joe didn't know what to do and told MM this. JS was not an employee of his or of the University. It was, however, on University property and witnessed by a employee of the University and of Joe's. And, it was already 8 hours after the incident, which meant rushing people to the building was a waste of time and might get in the way of a legitimate investigation.

So, as I posted above, Joe did exactly as he should of in 2001 and even if the incident occurred in 2017. Anything beyond that is just made up.

What? I have been pretty clear in saying that everyone failed. I'm not making an excuse for MM.

 

[psuro]

Well you could make an argument that he did help manage by saying they should talk to Sandusky first. I also don't think waiting until after the weekend to not to ruin anyone's weekend would qualify as immediately reporting it.

I thought he listned to Mike, then went over to the Employee Manual, it told him what to do, and he did it - reported it to Schulz.

 

[getmyjive11]

I thought he listed to Mike, then went over to the Employee Manual, it told him what to do, and he did it - reported it to Schulz.

Nah. Schultz was enjoying his weekend.

 

[Obliviax]

What? I have been pretty clear in saying that everyone failed. I'm not making an excuse for MM.

well, if MM "failed", you cannot ascribe that failure to Paterno. MM's hesitancy to report it (with Dad and Dranov, et all) fueled Paterno not reporting it until the next day. First, there was no urgency after MM's delay and two, Joe had to go check to see what the procedure would be. We also have to remember that MM admits he gave JVP zero elicit details.

 

[PSU_Nut]

Funny...you guys stating Joe didn't report it right away are the same guys making excuses for MM not reporting it right away.

Joe didn't know what to do and told MM this. JS was not an employee of his or of the University. It was, however, on University property and witnessed by a employee of the University and of Joe's. And, it was already 8 hours after the incident, which meant rushing people to the building was a waste of time and might get in the way of a legitimate investigation.

So, as I posted above, Joe did exactly as he should of in 2001 and even if the incident occurred in 2017. Anything beyond that is just made up.

I have never made excuses for MM. I also don't buy the excuses people give to Joe. They all screwed up. The excuses people make for Joe are ridiculous. No one said they had to rush to the building but simple notification would have been great. I guess anything that doesn't show the deity in a positive light is unacceptable.

 

[Obliviax]

I have never made excuses for MM. I also don't buy the excuses people give to Joe. They all screwed up. The excuses people make for Joe are ridiculous. No one said they had to rush to the building but simple notification would have been great. I guess anything that doesn't show the deity in a positive light is unacceptable.

well, that's because its not an excuse regarding Paterno. its policy, then and today, as my original post clearly shows.

 

[PSU_Nut]

well, that's because its not an excuse regarding Paterno. its policy, then and today, as my original post clearly shows.

It policy to wait and not immediately report it? What is the NCAA mandatory waiting period? Where in the policy does it say to discuss the possible course of action with the head football coach? If this was Urban Meyer or Harbaugh you wouldn't be making the excuses and saying it was policy.

 

[JoeDidntKnow]

The point that's missed by these idiots that claim Joe was inserting himself in the decision making process in 2001 is that Tim went to Joe out of respect as Joe was Tim's mentor. Joe didn't ask to be consulted nor would he have inserted himself on his own, nor did he attempt to influence things. He followed the process exactly as written and he never inserted the word horseplay into the discussion. That's not a word Joe would use to describe a 60 year old man and a 12 year old boy alone in a shower late at night. Joe probably would have said inappropriate instead of horseplay

 

[joeparules]

I have never made excuses for MM. I also don't buy the excuses people give to Joe. They all screwed up. The excuses people make for Joe are ridiculous. No one said they had to rush to the building but simple notification would have been great. I guess anything that doesn't show the deity in a positive light is unacceptable.

The scale of needing to make excuses for someone is proportional to the "fault" each individual played in allowing the 2001 shower incident to occur (JS - 100%) or not be reported properly ...
MM : 80% - whether he is a liar (didn't see anything but changed his story to keep himself out of trouble with gambling and/or dick pics) or a coward (6' 5" 240 pound guy sees a boy being molested, slams a locker door before running away), everyone can agree if he simply called 911 this whole shit-storm could have been avoided minutes after the event occurred
JM : 7% - if his son was really that upset he should have insisted he called the police and not waited to have him report it to JVP
Dr. D : 5% - if MM was really that upset he should have insisted he called the police despite being told THREE TIMES that it was nothing sexual
JR : 5% - licensed child psychologist and mandatory reporter told for (at least) the second time of JS showering naked with a young boy (how this douche is not in jail is beyond me)
TC/GSch : 1% each - despite thinking they were doing the right thing, should have erred on the side of caution and reported to DPW
GSpan : 0.999% - despite not being required to report it at the time, should have documented everything better than that one email
JVP : 0.001% - despite following University policy to the letter and providing a blue print for the NCAA's eventual policy, he should have ... well ... he was the all-powerful, omnipotent Joe Paterno and should have realized JS was a pedophile despite state agencies trained in the field not knowing

 

[Lion Lineage]

Mike McQueary bears the brunt of the responsibility for Sandusky not being reported to authorities, perhaps followed by his dad and Dr. Dranov - depending upon what Mike really told them. Then, IMO, the next in line is "Swim trunks" Jack. Remember, "Swim trunks" is a licensed child psychologist and was told that Sandusky was showering alone at night with a child. That alone should have made "Swim trunks" suspicious and, since the child was his responsibility as he was the head of TSM, he should have reported it to DPW and immediately barred Sandusky from having any contact with TSM children.

 

[pandaczar12]

If only they had these devices that you could communicate with people no matter where they travelled.

I'm an early adopter of tech, and I didn't get my first cell phone until late 2001, after the infamous shower incident. I would not be surprised if Joe never owned a cell phone in his entire life. I have a grandparents that are about the age Joe would be now, that still don't have cell phones.

 

[joeparules]

Mike McQueary bears the brunt of the responsibility for Sandusky not being reported to authorities, perhaps followed by his dad and Dr. Dranov - depending upon what Mike really told them. Then, IMO, the next in line is "Swim trunks" Jack. Remember, "Swim trunks" is a licensed child psychologist and was told that Sandusky was showering alone at night with a child. That alone should have made "Swim trunks" suspicious and, since the child was his responsibility as he was the head of TSM, he should have reported it to DPW and immediately barred Sandusky from having any contact with TSM children.

Thanks for reminding me as I forgot all about Jack "Mandatory Reporter" Raykovitz. Even though he was further down the chain of people hearing the story, he (unlike C/S/S at the time) was required to report the incident to DPW and obviously did not. I updated my earlier post.

 

[PSU_Nut]

I'm an early adopter of tech, and I didn't get my first cell phone until late 2001, after the infamous shower incident. I would not be surprised if Joe never owned a cell phone in his entire life. I have a grandparents that are about the age Joe would be now, that still don't have cell phones.

Please stop with the lame excuses. I am sure Joe had access to a landline. You know those things that are hooked up to a wire? Those can still make phone calls. This is a perfect example of how desperate people are to defend Joe. The desperation is really cult like. Joe had to wait because he had no cell phone. He couldn't be bothered enough to walk across the room and use a phone.

 

[Obliviax]

Please stop with the lame excuses. I am sure Joe had access to a landline. You know those things that are hooked up to a wire? Those can still make phone calls. This is a perfect example of how desperate people are to defend Joe. The desperation is really cult like. Joe had to wait because he had no cell phone. He couldn't be bothered enough to walk across the room and use a phone.

So how do you know he didn't call for curley tight away? Joe said he needed to figure out what to do with the information. He probably called someone, don't you think?

 

[BobPSU92]

Please take this opportunity to use the Ignore feature.

 

[pandaczar12]

Please stop with the lame excuses. I am sure Joe had access to a landline. You know those things that are hooked up to a wire? Those can still make phone calls. This is a perfect example of how desperate people are to defend Joe. The desperation is really cult like. Joe had to wait because he had no cell phone. He couldn't be bothered enough to walk across the room and use a phone.

You brought it up, I simply pointed out how silly your point was. So in the future, please try harder to stay on topic.

BTW, those things hooked up to a wire still couldn't call someone who didn't have a cell phone and wasn't near a land line. Enough making you look stupid on the phone front. Your entire post just skips over the fact that not one person testified to hearing anything more than the equivalent of horseplay from MM, and MM has admitted to watering it down further for Joe which obviously didn't create a sense of urgency. Yet you try so hard to find fault in Joe's actions. This is a perfect example of how desperate people are to defame Joe. The desperation is really cult like. You'd fit in perfectly on the lair.

 

[Lion Lineage]

Please stop with the lame excuses. I am sure Joe had access to a landline. You know those things that are hooked up to a wire? Those can still make phone calls. This is a perfect example of how desperate people are to defend Joe. The desperation is really cult like. Joe had to wait because he had no cell phone. He couldn't be bothered enough to walk across the room and use a phone.

Curley was traveling that weekend, was he not? Maybe Joe could have sent him a message via mental telepathy.

 

[PSU_Nut]

Curley was traveling that weekend, was he not? Maybe Joe could have sent him a message via mental telepathy.

What athletic director in 2001 doesn't carry a cell phone? If he didn't he was even more incompetent then I thought. Secondly there were others he could have notified if he really wanted to. The excuses are amazing.

 

[PSU_Nut]

So how do you know he didn't call for curley tight away? Joe said he needed to figure out what to do with the information. He probably called someone, don't you think?

Why did he not testify to that? He specifically said he didn't want the ruin anyone's weekend and waited.