Nice Opening Pass Yesterday - Then Same Old Same Old Same Old!

[ILLINOISLION]

Great opening call / pass yesterday, it really got me excited.

Then nothing. The next handoff to Sanders got nothing, then two sacks.

If Trace wasn’t going to be effective running, it still made sense to at least make Michigan think he was gonna be in our game plan. He should have run the second and even third play of the game so to at least for Michigan to have to think about having to play Sanders honestly, as it was they knew they could ignore McSorley as a running option and key in Sanders.

Why no toss sweeps to at least give Sanders a chance to get to the corner. Why no reverses or jet sweeps. No quick wide screens or true screens or throwing to Sanders in the flat. Why the same old same old.

We NEVER come back with the same play. The second play of the game, go right back to our TE, Michigan will never expect it. After Trace missed the gift TD, come back with a stop-and-go at the same defender, he’d never expect to be targeted again, maybe he slips again, maybe Trace can hit a wide open receiver on a second try.

AND we have no clue how to stop a blitz or take advantage of and attack a blitz. No clue.

Watching EVERY other game EVERY weekend you see all kinds of creative play design that set up easy 10 yd 20 yd or huge gainers. It seems we have to work work work to get anything on O. Heck, we never take any plays that work against us and incorporate into our offensive game plan.

One of the easiest jobs in CFB is being a defensive coordinator planning for PSU.

Anyone hear Todd Blacklege describe the RPO O last night late in the ND-NW game? Thought he did a wonderful job of highlighting how it should be executed. To ND’s credit, they’ve nailed it.

 

[LionDeNittany]

There are a few problems with our O in my opinion.

1. Sanders seems to run sideways. Not turn his body and run east west... like actually running sideways. He doesn't get any yardage and is slow.

2. Trace is hurt/uninspired. I want to check out the end of the OSU game or first half of MSU. He must have taken a concussion or been hurt. He has been ineffective since then.

3. When you combine these two, yes it is easy to defend PSU because all we are left with is some dropped passes and potentially some TE catches.

LdN

 

[Rip_E_2_Joe_PA]

2 and 3. Sure

 

[bkmtnittany1]

Great opening call / pass yesterday, it really got me excited.

Then nothing. The next handoff to Sanders got nothing, then two sacks.

If Trace wasn’t going to be effective running, it still made sense to at least make Michigan think he was gonna be in our game plan. He should have run the second and even third play of the game so to at least for Michigan to have to think about having to play Sanders honestly, as it was they knew they could ignore McSorley as a running option and key in Sanders.

Why no toss sweeps to at least give Sanders a chance to get to the corner. Why no reverses or jet sweeps. No quick wide screens or true screens or throwing to Sanders in the flat. Why the same old same old.

We NEVER come back with the same play. The second play of the game, go right back to our TE, Michigan will never expect it. After Trace missed the gift TD, come back with a stop-and-go at the same defender, he’d never expect to be targeted again, maybe he slips again, maybe Trace can hit a wide open receiver on a second try.

AND we have no clue how to stop a blitz or take advantage of and attack a blitz. No clue.

Watching EVERY other game EVERY weekend you see all kinds of creative play design that set up easy 10 yd 20 yd or huge gainers. It seems we have to work work work to get anything on O. Heck, we never take any plays that work against us and incorporate into our offensive game plan.

One of the easiest jobs in CFB is being a defensive coordinator planning for PSU.

Anyone hear Todd Blacklege describe the RPO O last night late in the ND-NW game? Thought he did a wonderful job of highlighting how it should be executed. To ND’s credit, they’ve nailed it.

I am really sick and tired of seeing a LB cover #87 at the LOS and we just dont throw it to him. Also, yesterday with Stevens in the game we finally put Sanders in the slot on the right side. A LB immediately went and covered him, Stevens did a qb run to the left for a nice gain. The last time we put Sanders in the slot....and not one wheel route with him. not one jet sweep with Hamler, not one set were a wr comes in motion...ugh...I will be drinking beer early today!

 

[KnightWhoSaysNit]

Sanders runs sideways because there's always one or two guys in his face. That's often hard to see on TV. In hindsight, when he can't get past them, its then easy to criticize not just lunging forward in the first place. But at that point it is hindsight.

 

[fairfaxlion2]

Stevens should have played the entire game yesterday. McSorley was way off his game, he was not even at 50 percent. Yes, Stevens threw that lousy pick-six but otherwise he actually seemed able to move the ball. We would have scored more points with Stevens yesterday, that was pretty clear.

 

[DonP74]

Stevens should have played the entire game yesterday. McSorley was way off his game, he was not even at 50 percent. Yes, Stevens threw that lousy pick-six but otherwise he actually seemed able to move the ball. We would have scored more points with Stevens yesterday, that was pretty clear.

Yes, and the O would have been on the field longer thus giving the D a breather.

 

[fairfaxlion2]

Yes, and the O would have been on the field longer thus giving the D a breather.

yes. The game could have been much closer although I do not think we could have won.

I hope Franklin can accurately assess what went wrong yesterday. You admire a QB who is ultra-competitive and has won so much. But if they are so banged up that they can't do anything and are causing your defense to be on the field for 80 percent of the game, that is not helping.

 

[djr4rebs]

Essentially, our staff conceded defeat when we trotted out a less than 100% #9. It became glaringly obvious that the initial goal was to try and lose 21-7 when we kept Trace in until his knee got tweaked being run down by a DL.

Enter Tommy, full of piss and vinegar and very little experience, and he throws a shit ball right into zone coverage, probably the first of the day. Next series, Trace returns to conclude the day until our last series.

 

[N&B4PSU]

I taped it and came home knowing what a sheiss-show it was before dialing it up to see how far I could watch before hurling (shoe through tv and the other kind, also).

A couple things (I'm presuming were handled on the game thread). First UM drive near our goal line (3rd down, i think) play goes wide to left and our defender at point of attack is blocked in the back... no call. After penalty and long 3rd down that probably fails, likely a FG results.

Our following drive Trace has all kinds of space on that 3rd down run and goes down way too fast. Now someobody should have reviewed it (looked like he made it) but that might be the first time I've seen Trace either miscalculate down and distance or get a little gun shy. That Franklin didn't challenge it was nuts (imo). A first there and maybe we get some confidence. And the D gets some needed rest.

[How did players react to the lack of a challenge?]

After that, the only thing I could do was FF to Tommy's drive to score.

I agree with those who suspect Trace has not been right since the osu game. He's still got a ton of talent and grit, but he has not seemed like the same player. Maybe that game left him spent emotionally. I can't judge that part, but I syre could understand it.

 

[fairfaxlion2]

I agree with those who suspect Trace has not been right since the osu game. He's still got a ton of talent and grit, but he has not seemed like the same player. Maybe that game left him spent emotionally. I can't judge that part, but I syre could understand it.

since that game he has transformed into 2003-04 Zach Mills.

 

[PSUdraw]

since that game he has transformed into 2003-04 Zach Mills.

Yep i think Trace has not been 100% since that game running the ball that much over time will have your body all banged up lets not forget he is barley at 200 lbs and is not built like a running back taking that punishment.

 

[Nitwit97]

I am really sick and tired of seeing a LB cover #87 at the LOS and we just dont throw it to him. Also, yesterday with Stevens in the game we finally put Sanders in the slot on the right side. A LB immediately went and covered him, Stevens did a qb run to the left for a nice gain. The last time we put Sanders in the slot....and not one wheel route with him. not one jet sweep with Hamler, not one set were a wr comes in motion...ugh...I will be drinking beer early today!

I agree with you. 87 flashes for one or two chunk plays each game and then he is a ghost, but even targeted. Meanwhile we are throwing slants to guys who not only can’t catch the ball, but have an uncanny ability to deflect the ball upwards, giving DBs a chance at INTs. One of the laundry list of items that make this team so frustrating

 

[ram2020]

I have actually been a bit of a Rahne defender, but I am just wholly confused by his game plan yesterday. I am not even sure what it was exactly. So all week, Franklin and the team identified that the Michigan defense presses up on receivers and that their D-line is dominant and aggressive. Okay, good, our scouting department is not totally worthless I suppose. So what does Rahne do with the information? He decides that the QB draw with a QB that has a bum knee is a pillar of the game-plan. When he really gets frisky, he decides to throw in the never before seen "Wildcat," formation against this aggressive front 7. Anything to combat their pressure in the game-plan? Quick throws, bubble screens, reverses, counters, HB screens? Nope, just basically let Trace run around behind our overmatched offensive line and try to "create." Which seems to have been the gameplan since the 1st quarter of the OSU game. There is just no imagination, nothing really downfield, nothing to combat pressure. I'm just amazed that Rahne, after watching tape of Michigan's defense(did he?), brings this game plan to Franklin on Friday and says "we will win with this" and Franklin actually buys it.

Last item: the "check with me" to the sideline constantly is ONE thing that could change without changing the playcalling that could have a positive return. How about a NASCAR package on occasion? Teams have clearly caught onto the fact that we see how they are aligned defensively, then we decide how we want to attack, then snap the ball. You don't think defenses are "showing" one thing and then doing another after the call comes in from the sideline?

 

[KnightWhoSaysNit]

There is just no imagination, nothing really downfield, nothing to combat pressure. I'm just amazed that Rahne, after watching tape of Michigan's defense(did he?), brings this game plan to Franklin on Friday and says "we will win with this" and Franklin actually buys it.

Head scratcher for sure.

This is a critical week. More of the same and we are in deep trouble. It won't be because we will have 4+ losses this year.

It's going to be very interesting to see if Franklin can follow through with some tough choices that need to be made, game plan aside.

 

[PSUcup1]

Stevens should have played the entire game yesterday. McSorley was way off his game, he was not even at 50 percent. Yes, Stevens threw that lousy pick-six but otherwise he actually seemed able to move the ball. We would have scored more points with Stevens yesterday, that was pretty clear.

Agree 100%

 

[2020 is Our Year]

Honestly, the staff refusing to play Tommy yesterday should make all of us concerned about next year. Or at least make us believe that the job will be wide open between Stevens, Clifford and the in-coming kids.

I really just hope Tommy doesn't regret his decision to stay

 

[ILLINOISLION]

Honestly, the staff refusing to play Tommy yesterday should make all of us concerned about next year. Or at least make us believe that the job will be wide open between Stevens, Clifford and the in-coming kids.

I really just hope Tommy doesn't regret his decision to stay

I just hope he doesn’t change his mind and go somewhere else to play next year.

AND

IF he thinks he has been disrespected by Franklin’s uber-loyalty to Trace over the last month, holy crap, the possible (however remote) nightmare of him playing next year for Harbaugh could make me suicidal. (Could PSU veto that move?)

 

[PSUdraw]

I just hope he doesn’t change his mind and go somewhere else to play next year.

AND

IF he thinks he has been disrespected by Franklin’s uber-loyalty to Trace over the last month, holy crap, the possible (however remote) nightmare of him playing next year for Harbaugh could make me suicidal. (Could PSU veto that move?)

Patterson is only a JR and they have Dylan McCaffery behind him.

 

[PSUdraw]

Honestly, the staff refusing to play Tommy yesterday should make all of us concerned about next year. Or at least make us believe that the job will be wide open between Stevens, Clifford and the in-coming kids.

I really just hope Tommy doesn't regret his decision to stay

My fear is that we are going to continue to run this offense and Clifford will be a wasted in it as I do not see him in the same mold as Stevens or McSorley, he is more of a pocket passer with enough mobility to keep plays alive, he is not a person we should be running qb runs with 10 times a game.

 

[ILLINOISLION]

Patterson is only a JR and they have Dylan McCaffery behind him.

Wow, my bad.....I didn’t realize Patterson was only a junior. That makes UMich much better next year than I thought they would be. Damn.

Knew about McCaffery. Not that it impacts next year but do you know he broke his collarbone against us on Sat?

 

[furfoot]

Just a FWIW:

Challenging the spot in the McS run would have been a waste.
That rule changed recently (2015? 2016?)..... and they now use the NFL rule - - - the ball is dead as soon as the ballcarrier STARTS his slide (NOT when his knee hits).
That makes the spot a judgment call - “when did he INITIATE the slide”.... and in this case, the ball was clearly behind the line to gain anyway, when he initiated his slide."

So if the ball is dead and the play is over, why aren't flags being thrown when Trace gets hit when already down? I can think of one play in particular when he slid and was completely stopped when the Michigan player came in, hit and rolled Trace while the official was standing there watching. If the intent of the rule is to keep the qb safe(r), then where are the flags for late hits? I suppose that is somewhat rhetorical, since Michigan was the opponent...

 

[rudedude]

This is taken from an article on Lions 247 and, to me, puts this season in perspective. We don’t have a lot of offensive skill and firepower. We lost too much when Barkley, Gesicki, and Hamilton left. It also speaks to the playcalling or lack thereof.

“But, more than at any point in 2018, the brunt of blame fell on McSorley.

Since exiting the Iowa game, he’s been involved in 35 pass plays. They’ve featured five sacks and two interceptions, while McSorley has completed 12 of 30 throws for 196 yards.

Through nine games, he’s completing a 52.8 percent of pass attempts (down from 66.5 percent in 2017). He’s thrown 12 touchdowns (that total was 28 and 29 in 2017 and 2016, respectively).

Meanwhile, McSorley has taken on a substantially larger load — one that concerned Franklin as November neared — in the run game. He established a single-season high in rushing yards after only seven games and entered the Michigan matchup with 617 yards on the ground after gaining 856 through his first 27 starts.”

Poor Trace is worn out. He may be hurt more than just his knee.

 

[N&B4PSU]

Just a FWIW:

Challenging the spot in the McS run would have been a waste.
That rule changed recently (2015? 2016?)..... and they now use the NFL rule - - - the ball is dead as soon as the ballcarrier STARTS his slide (NOT when his knee hits).
That makes the spot a judgment call - “when did he INITIATE the slide”.... and in this case, the ball was clearly behind the line to gain anyway, when he initiated his slide. Just a FUBAR by McS.

From what I understand, the announcers made a big deal out of the “non-review” / “non-challenge” (I rarely listen to them, so I couldn’t say for sure what they might have said) ..... if so, simply ANOTHER example of the expert announcers not knowing the F-ing Rules of the game ...... NOT a case of CJF missing a call. (not even close)

Thank you. I thought that was the rule but upon hearing the TV experts I assumed they knew better than I... ahem.

That said, it was an awful FUBAR by Trace and it really left me wondering about how "right" he was.

 

[N&B4PSU]

Just a FWIW:

Challenging the spot in the McS run would have been a waste.
That rule changed recently (2015? 2016?)..... and they now use the NFL rule - - - the ball is dead as soon as the ballcarrier STARTS his slide (NOT when his knee hits).
That makes the spot a judgment call - “when did he INITIATE the slide”.... and in this case, the ball was clearly behind the line to gain anyway, when he initiated his slide. Just a FUBAR by McS.

From what I understand, the announcers made a big deal out of the “non-review” / “non-challenge” (I rarely listen to them, so I couldn’t say for sure what they might have said) ..... if so, simply ANOTHER example of the expert announcers not knowing the F-ing Rules of the game ...... NOT a case of CJF missing a call. (not even close)

FYI... it wasn't close. If the rule is where he gives himself up, they seemed to give him a favorable spot. For me, it was one of the worst plays i've seen from Trace because this was an easy (and so necessary first down).

 

[Paguy35]

The 2 things I see that concern me, especially this late is along the offensive line. Playing both defensive tackle and then offensive tackle in college, there are things you learn from day one, even in high school.

1) The lower man wins, seems so often that I remark how high our linemen are when run blocking. Even on pass blocking you got to get into your guy. My college o-line coach would go nuts if a defensive linemen was on the line of scrimmage and batted a ball down. He would scream that if your into the guy and he jumps he should be going on his ass...

2) Picking up twists and stunts.. Again guys will have a man head up or outside shoulder and that guy leaves his gap and the lineman goes with him, leaving a huge hole. Remember the role of thumb, if someone is over you and they leave, someone is coming in there.

I understand that things happen and play calling sometimes dictate things but the lack of aggression and fundamentals has hurt this team numerous times, around all positions. From gap responsibility , tackling high, not looking through your tackles and whiffing just the basics that most players are taught at the entry level. It showed me a lot when Michigan State punted with a 1:46 left to play and pretty much said you cant burn that time off and we will get it back. At what point as a player to you take disrespect like that and use it as motivation to win a game. Its been a while since I played and I didnt play at a brand name University, maybe the game has changed beyond my years and understanding..

 

[We Are . . .]

247 has a good frame-by-frame breakdown of what happened on those three plays (Link). I'm not enough of a football guy to pick up the nuances beyond their analysis so I'll leave that to you guys.

 

[sluggo72]

The 2 things I see that concern me, especially this late is along the offensive line. Playing both defensive tackle and then offensive tackle in college, there are things you learn from day one, even in high school.

1) The lower man wins, seems so often that I remark how high our linemen are when run blocking. Even on pass blocking you got to get into your guy. My college o-line coach would go nuts if a defensive linemen was on the line of scrimmage and batted a ball down. He would scream that if your into the guy and he jumps he should be going on his ass...

2) Picking up twists and stunts.. Again guys will have a man head up or outside shoulder and that guy leaves his gap and the lineman goes with him, leaving a huge hole. Remember the role of thumb, if someone is over you and they leave, someone is coming in there.

I understand that things happen and play calling sometimes dictate things but the lack of aggression and fundamentals has hurt this team numerous times, around all positions. From gap responsibility , tackling high, not looking through your tackles and whiffing just the basics that most players are taught at the entry level. It showed me a lot when Michigan State punted with a 1:46 left to play and pretty much said you cant burn that time off and we will get it back. At what point as a player to you take disrespect like that and use it as motivation to win a game. Its been a while since I played and I didnt play at a brand name University, maybe the game has changed beyond my years and understanding..

relative to #1 when did you play? As that is not the current thinking by many OL coaches. #2 I agree, it almost looks like we dont practice against twists up front. Every team we face sees that it worked for the previous team, so every team is going to try it vs us, so we better get ready, because they're coming!

 

[BBrown]

There are a few problems with our O in my opinion.

1. Sanders seems to run sideways. Not turn his body and run east west... like actually running sideways. He doesn't get any yardage and is slow.

2. Trace is hurt/uninspired. I want to check out the end of the OSU game or first half of MSU. He must have taken a concussion or been hurt. He has been ineffective since then.

3. When you combine these two, yes it is easy to defend PSU because all we are left with is some dropped passes and potentially some TE catches.

LdN

Disagree about Sanders.

 

[BBrown]

I taped it and came home knowing what a sheiss-show it was before dialing it up to see how far I could watch before hurling (shoe through tv and the other kind, also).

A couple things (I'm presuming were handled on the game thread). First UM drive near our goal line (3rd down, i think) play goes wide to left and our defender at point of attack is blocked in the back... no call. After penalty and long 3rd down that probably fails, likely a FG results.

Our following drive Trace has all kinds of space on that 3rd down run and goes down way too fast. Now someobody should have reviewed it (looked like he made it) but that might be the first time I've seen Trace either miscalculate down and distance or get a little gun shy. That Franklin didn't challenge it was nuts (imo). A first there and maybe we get some confidence. And the D gets some needed rest.

[How did players react to the lack of a challenge?]

After that, the only thing I could do was FF to Tommy's drive to score.

I agree with those who suspect Trace has not been right since the osu game. He's still got a ton of talent and grit, but he has not seemed like the same player. Maybe that game left him spent emotionally. I can't judge that part, but I syre could understand it.

One thing I will add. That after watching the Michy game and some others for the past 2 weeks.
Those 2 pick plays that were called against JJ and Pat F. to start the season were bullshit since I've seen it done as much and just as obvious
with no calls.

 

[Langmuir]

The 2 things I see that concern me, especially this late is along the offensive line. Playing both defensive tackle and then offensive tackle in college, there are things you learn from day one, even in high school.

1) The lower man wins, seems so often that I remark how high our linemen are when run blocking. Even on pass blocking you got to get into your guy. My college o-line coach would go nuts if a defensive linemen was on the line of scrimmage and batted a ball down. He would scream that if your into the guy and he jumps he should be going on his ass...

2) Picking up twists and stunts.. Again guys will have a man head up or outside shoulder and that guy leaves his gap and the lineman goes with him, leaving a huge hole. Remember the role of thumb, if someone is over you and they leave, someone is coming in there.

I understand that things happen and play calling sometimes dictate things but the lack of aggression and fundamentals has hurt this team numerous times, around all positions. From gap responsibility , tackling high, not looking through your tackles and whiffing just the basics that most players are taught at the entry level. It showed me a lot when Michigan State punted with a 1:46 left to play and pretty much said you cant burn that time off and we will get it back. At what point as a player to you take disrespect like that and use it as motivation to win a game. Its been a while since I played and I didnt play at a brand name University, maybe the game has changed beyond my years and understanding..

I agree. All this discussion about McSorley this and that, Stevens should play blah blah blah. The real problem in my opinion is that we cannot line up and run the ball at even vastly inferior opponents. It seems that every run play is a mis-direction, zone read, or some trickeration. Once that breaks down, we got nothing.

 

[sluggo72]

247 has a good frame-by-frame breakdown of what happened on those three plays (Link). I'm not enough of a football guy to pick up the nuances beyond their analysis so I'll leave that to you guys.

yes that was a good break down. Look at play 1 frame 2, #62 left foot has dropped stepped, which turns his shoulders away from the LOS. On run plays whenever the OL shoulders get turned, all hell breaks lose. If they are parallel to LOS they have a chance. Now maybe Limegrover teaches a drop step, I dont know, as it was the common technique used by the OL for many years. But things have changed. Instead they teach staying square and shuffling the feet left and right. Now if 62 had done that, and 74 had done that, they would have both engaged the DT, and then 74 could have come off on the LBer and maybe we have a play.
Play 2 frame 2 Look at Big Bacon's hands. If you watch the film, you can see BB hands are late getting on the DE. The DE gets his hands on BB first, and that is the race, who ever gets their hands on the other guy first, wins. When BB loses his hands, his feet become a mess, and the DE beats him inside, not good.
Play 3 pick a frame. It's like we had never seen a twist before!! I dont understand this one, you have to work on that.

 

[Paguy35]

relative to #1 when did you play? As that is not the current thinking by many OL coaches. #2 I agree, it almost looks like we dont practice against twists up front. Every team we face sees that it worked for the previous team, so every team is going to try it vs us, so we better get ready, because they're coming!

1996-1999

 

[sluggo72]

1996-1999

unless you're one of the option teams, many OL techniques have changed . Many are teaching to keep their heads out of the block, save the brain, save the game!!
it isnt that low man doesnt win, but today the winner is, who gets their hands on the other guy first.