Anyone word on the status of this? Last I heard, the levels of whatever illegal substance he tested positive for was so low that he may have a valid issue for appeal. The Marable/Green debacle was resolved at Fargo. Fargo is this week and Zain's competing in Spain with the rest of the team in the tuneup for worlds. It would be unfair to everyone involved if there's a wrestle off at this late stage.
Oliver appeal?
- Thread starter psu_flip
- Start date
Or chance to lose and not go to Paris.
I'm sure these guys that are competitors would like a chance to shut these twitter warriors up even if there is a chance they could lose. I'm sure that is the mind of a top level athlete. They want to know they beat the best guy to get there. That's at least what I think.
I get why people get a little miffed over the appeals process, but at the end of the day Zain would've had to go through the same road if Oliver was wrestling that day anyway. Now he gets a shot at him after some rest - the odds are actually improved for Zain here. Besides, if you can't beat the best then why are you going to France anyhow. Substance reviews can be wrong after all.
Zain is not worried about any of this I'm sure. Not a huge deal.
Zain is not worried about any of this I'm sure. Not a huge deal.
Definitely not a big deal. Zain got hosed last time but Oliver is out of lucky horseshoes. Zain will win two straight.
do you REALLY think Zain is the kind of guy who worrie about the type on internet nonsense that you spew ..pretty sure he is way more built like ...whatever ..let's do it ...like a lot of ur posts .. but don't post nonsense..in 'real wrestling ' he already showed Oliver who 'should have won' ...on a side note .. can I get tickets to AC/DC
Not really conclusive of anything but nevertheless probably a good barometer of Zain's improvement, especially defensively, with respect to the debate over how he'd fare against Pico if the match happened today.
Having seen Zain's defense at BTS and WTT, it's hard for me to believe that he can't take Oliver two out of three times. (What is equally encouraging is JO taking it to Chamizo like he did, how far is Zain from the best at 65?)
Given that Zain is going to Spain for this weekend's tournament and worlds is 5 weeks away, it seems unlikely to me that Oliver is getting a wrestle off before worlds. I'm not even sure Oliver has had a hearing with USADA yet, so whatever rumblings there are, it seems unlikely to me that this can get resolved in such a short amount of time.
Given that Zain is going to Spain for this weekend's tournament and worlds is 5 weeks away, it seems unlikely to me that Oliver is getting a wrestle off before worlds. I'm not even sure Oliver has had a hearing with USADA yet, so whatever rumblings there are, it seems unlikely to me that this can get resolved in such a short amount of time.
Speaking of being in Spain. Zain got into a little fisticuffs with some guy there today.
<blockquote class="instagram-media" data-instgrm-captioned data-instgrm-version="7" style=" background:#FFF; border:0; border-radius:3px; box-shadow:0 0 1px 0 rgba(0,0,0,0.5),0 1px 10px 0 rgba(0,0,0,0.15); margin: 1px; max-width:658px; padding:0; width:99.375%; width:-webkit-calc(100% - 2px); width:calc(100% - 2px);"><div style="padding:8px;"> <div style=" background:#F8F8F8; line-height:0; margin-top:40px; padding:62.5% 0; text-align:center; width:100%;"> <div style=" background:url(data:image/png;base64,iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAACwAAAAsCAMAAAApWqozAAAABGdBTUEAALGPC/xhBQAAAAFzUkdCAK7OHOkAAAAMUExURczMzPf399fX1+bm5mzY9AMAAADiSURBVDjLvZXbEsMgCES5/P8/t9FuRVCRmU73JWlzosgSIIZURCjo/ad+EQJJB4Hv8BFt+IDpQoCx1wjOSBFhh2XssxEIYn3ulI/6MNReE07UIWJEv8UEOWDS88LY97kqyTliJKKtuYBbruAyVh5wOHiXmpi5we58Ek028czwyuQdLKPG1Bkb4NnM+VeAnfHqn1k4+GPT6uGQcvu2h2OVuIf/gWUFyy8OWEpdyZSa3aVCqpVoVvzZZ2VTnn2wU8qzVjDDetO90GSy9mVLqtgYSy231MxrY6I2gGqjrTY0L8fxCxfCBbhWrsYYAAAAAElFTkSuQmCC); display:block; height:44px; margin:0 auto -44px; position:relative; top:-22px; width:44px;"></div></div> <p style=" margin:8px 0 0 0; padding:0 4px;"> <a href="" style=" color:#000; font-family:Arial,sans-serif; font-size:14px; font-style:normal; font-weight:normal; line-height:17px; text-decoration:none; word-wrap:break-word;" target="_blank">In Spain, Santa Clause disguises himself as Spider-Man and punches Americans in the face. #LittleKnownFact #NiceList</a></p> <p style=" color:#c9c8cd; font-family:Arial,sans-serif; font-size:14px; line-height:17px; margin-bottom:0; margin-top:8px; overflow:hidden; padding:8px 0 7px; text-align:center; text-overflow:ellipsis; white-space:nowrap;">A post shared by Zain Retherford (@zaintrain_psu) on <time style=" font-family:Arial,sans-serif; font-size:14px; line-height:17px;" datetime="2017-07-12T19:16:58+00:00">Jul 12, 2017 at 12:16pm PDT</time></p></div></blockquote>
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Don't think we'll have to worry about Oliver. Spiderman looks like he ate him.
Tech tip: you only need to post the Instagram URL, not the whole embed code, Rivals doesn't parse all that stuff. Makes it easier though. Same thing with Twitter, just the direct URL and it posts just fine.
Yeah, that was my Instagram maiden from my computer. Much easier from the app. Thanks for letting me know.
As a huge follower/fan of JO since he was in 9th grade and a die hard PSU wrestling fan (and season ticket holder), I think this whole situation sucks.
Assuming the OP is correct and JO does have a valid argument, I think an unplanned wrestle off will be unfair to both guys. Zain has his training and weight management built around the assumption that he would wrestle competitively yesterday (with a 2KG allowance) in Spain and then again at scratch weight at the end of August in Paris. Meanwhile, JO must be flying blindly as to how he should be managing his weight and training.
The basics of JO's (and his lawyers') argument had to be known at team trials. Again, assuming the OP is correct and this argument has a decent chance of ruling the day, they should have let JO wrestle in the trials and then hit him with the suspension immediately after. That way, if he wins his appeal, the PLANNED on the mat wrestling would have decided who was on the team...Not a wrestle off on an odd date that neither guy was able to prepare for properly....If he lost his appeal, whoever took 2nd at trials would get the spot. Pretty clean.
Of course if USAW looked at it said, "No way JO is winning this appeal", then they did the right thing. But the longer this thing goes without a ruling, the more likely it appears that a wrestle off may actually happen.
As for the matches themselves, I really wanted to see them. There is no way JO was going to hit a CORRECT THROW at the buzzer for the win again. I'm sure Zain would never let that happen; he learned from the Vegas bout. It also seems that Cael/Casey got Zain out of that really bad habit he had of going hands to the face so often. Zain gave the ref no choice but to make that call against him at the US Open. But he now seems to have that fixed.
On the flip side, without the hands to the face defense, I strongly suspect JO would get to Zain's legs and score --- but who would score more? Keep in mind Zain never took JO down either.
Regardless of the victor, I really wanted to see that bouts ---- at a time when both guys had planned for it. Both are phenomenal wrestlers. I tend to think JO is a little better now, but Zain will eventually own the weight (or whatever weight he ends up at after the new weights are announced -- assuming he does not end up at Stieber's new weight).
The longer this drags out, the more likely it seems the wrestle off is going to happen. If this was open-and-shut, we would have heard something by now.
Frustrating.
Assuming the OP is correct and JO does have a valid argument, I think an unplanned wrestle off will be unfair to both guys. Zain has his training and weight management built around the assumption that he would wrestle competitively yesterday (with a 2KG allowance) in Spain and then again at scratch weight at the end of August in Paris. Meanwhile, JO must be flying blindly as to how he should be managing his weight and training.
The basics of JO's (and his lawyers') argument had to be known at team trials. Again, assuming the OP is correct and this argument has a decent chance of ruling the day, they should have let JO wrestle in the trials and then hit him with the suspension immediately after. That way, if he wins his appeal, the PLANNED on the mat wrestling would have decided who was on the team...Not a wrestle off on an odd date that neither guy was able to prepare for properly....If he lost his appeal, whoever took 2nd at trials would get the spot. Pretty clean.
Of course if USAW looked at it said, "No way JO is winning this appeal", then they did the right thing. But the longer this thing goes without a ruling, the more likely it appears that a wrestle off may actually happen.
As for the matches themselves, I really wanted to see them. There is no way JO was going to hit a CORRECT THROW at the buzzer for the win again. I'm sure Zain would never let that happen; he learned from the Vegas bout. It also seems that Cael/Casey got Zain out of that really bad habit he had of going hands to the face so often. Zain gave the ref no choice but to make that call against him at the US Open. But he now seems to have that fixed.
On the flip side, without the hands to the face defense, I strongly suspect JO would get to Zain's legs and score --- but who would score more? Keep in mind Zain never took JO down either.
Regardless of the victor, I really wanted to see that bouts ---- at a time when both guys had planned for it. Both are phenomenal wrestlers. I tend to think JO is a little better now, but Zain will eventually own the weight (or whatever weight he ends up at after the new weights are announced -- assuming he does not end up at Stieber's new weight).
The longer this drags out, the more likely it seems the wrestle off is going to happen. If this was open-and-shut, we would have heard something by now.
Frustrating.
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Real good post. I don't know what the standard is for appeals but letting JO wrestle at the trials would only make sense if the appeal was "de novo" (considered anew, presuming his innocence), and I don't think that's ever been the history with respect to the deference athletes receive for testing hot. Not my area but maybe there's some counter-examples to that.
I suppose one way to gauge how to set policy on this would be to statistically account for the rate of success athletes have on appeal under similar circumstances (type of drug, type of test, etc.). Because if 99% of appeals simply affirm the initial finding, then letting the wrestler continue pending the appeal (which often takes a long time) prejudices the wrestler in Zain's shoes. But if JO had, say, a 51% chance of success on appeal, then he's prejudiced by not letting him wrestle at trials. My suspicion is that most appeals fail.
That makes sense in principle. The challenge would be finding a fair comparative set that meets the "similar circumstances" standard. If that could be done, I completely agree with your thoughts....Big "if" though I suspect.
I would imagine success rate for appeals are pretty low (not 1%, but certainly not 51%), simply because a high number of athletes that piss hot are actually cheating.
That's probably right. The rate at which laughable excuses are offered for positive tests is nearly 100% though.
Such as, "I like to kiss my girlfriend."
https://www.forbes.com/sites/brucel...-claim-to-get-drug-ban-reversed/#b40bafd75d31
Punk ass cheating bitch. He certainly loved undercutting Zain on twitter.
Accepting sanctions 6 months after the event is kinda like the Friday night bad news dump in Washington.
How it looks with just the URL copied and pasted into the two-link chain button to the right of the A.
I don’t have any skin in the game here, but if you read the report it does say that the concentration levels were in line with over the counter type usage that would have ended a few days prior. So, if it’s something like sudafed for a cold, the stimulants in that would show up as a positive - so I can see how this situation may have unfolded. I believe many of us who have competed over many years were probably sick for some of those events and probably took some cold medications along the way too. I dont think Oliver has a history of positive tests...and being in the NCAA, he HAS been tested. All that said, this may be a one off. Am I missing something here?
Not commenting on the Oliver drama... though I will on the photo. Know exactly where Zain is, and if it's like it was when I was there, these costumed characters pressure tourists into paying for the photo op, over 20 Euro in many cases. Just guessing Zain put Spidey in a leg turk, then sent him on his way, not paying anything
.
Not commenting on the Oliver drama... though I will on the photo. Know exactly where Zain is, and if it's like it was when I was there, these costumed characters pressure tourists into paying for the photo op, over 20 Euro in many cases. Just guessing Zain put Spidey in a leg turk, then sent him on his way, not paying anything
Good stuff RoarLions1.
I find it hard to believe that he couldn't ask the Okie State team doctor or Sunkist Kids or USA Wrestling for a list of approved meds, if not a prescription to take the guesswork out.
Approved/banned med lists have been around long enough that they should be culturally ingrained for any athlete at that level.
I tend to sympathize with ignorance of the law excuses, especially where the laws are complex, burdensome, and counter-intuitive. I've slightly less sympathy for JO because he's been on the FS circuit for a few years and definitely should've known. My understanding is that USADA is methodical, rigorous, and up front with the athletes about what they can expect.
Regardless of whether the rule is stupid because you should be able to treat a cold with OTC cold medicine at any point in time, I can't imagine he he wasn't told. USADA isn't out to get our athletes, but they've got to do their job.
US wrestlers have it tougher than many EU countries and especially RUS, who are well documented as having corruptly gamed the system, but that's no excuse either.
Regardless of whether the rule is stupid because you should be able to treat a cold with OTC cold medicine at any point in time, I can't imagine he he wasn't told. USADA isn't out to get our athletes, but they've got to do their job.
US wrestlers have it tougher than many EU countries and especially RUS, who are well documented as having corruptly gamed the system, but that's no excuse either.
Well, since he lives and trains in AZ, maybe it would be tough for him to get a prescription in OK. So switch that part, and you are correct.
