On Loading Up On CB's

[Obliviax]

I've been thinking about the huge number of CB's we will have on the 2017 roster (and into 2021). Without having looked at other teams, I think CJF is being very, very smart here:

• As we all know, defenses are becoming more and more situational.
• tOSU signed a kid that is 6-3 and another that is 6-5 and can run, Michigan 6-4 and 6-5. The WR position is becoming one of size and not just speed
• Teams are also signing speed kids, like our Polk.
• Defenses have the opportunity to change the defensive package as they see the offense change their package
• So if the opponent loads up on 5-9, 4.3 40 guys or 6-4, 4.5 40 guys, the defense can bring in a 5-9 CB or a 6-2 CB to defend. Its just becoming more situational as teams move toward spread offenses more and more.
• Ask yourself, if Michigan had hired JoeMo, how would we defend them?
• We also have to keep in mind these are 17/18 year old kids. As such, even with the best medical prognostications, we have no idea how they'll fill out physically. It is easy to imagine a 5-10 185 lb kid, at age 17, will be a 6-2, 225 senior at age 23. That kid could end up playing S or OLB in the newer "speed" defenses we are seeing. So several kids brought in to play DB could move up toward the LOS.
• Finally, as special teams take on more and more importance (as the separation of "good" and "bad" teams becomes less) it makes sense that a bunch of Frosh and Soph kids that hover around 200 lbs and can cover ground will make great punt and kickoff personnel.

In a word, this large number of CB's make us "versatile". Versatile no matter what the offensive package is, no matter their personnel, no matter how they mature and can be plugged in on special teams based on need.

 

[bjf1991]

I've been thinking about the huge number of CB's we will have on the 2017 roster (and into 2021). Without having looked at other teams, I think CJF is being very, very smart here:

• As we all know, defenses are becoming more and more situational.
• tOSU signed a kid that is 6-3 and another that is 6-5 and can run, Michigan 6-4 and 6-5. The WR position is becoming one of size and not just speed
• Teams are also signing speed kids, like our Polk.
• Defenses have the opportunity to change the defensive package as they see the offense change their package
• So if the opponent loads up on 5-9, 4.3 40 guys or 6-4, 4.5 40 guys, the defense can bring in a 5-9 CB or a 6-2 CB to defend. Its just becoming more situational as teams move toward spread offenses more and more.
• Ask yourself, if Michigan had hired JoeMo, how would we defend them?
• We also have to keep in mind these are 17/18 year old kids. As such, even with the best medical prognostications, we have no idea how they'll fill out physically. It is easy to imagine a 5-10 185 lb kid, at age 17, will be a 6-2, 225 senior at age 23. That kid could end up playing S or OLB in the newer "speed" defenses we are seeing. So several kids brought in to play DB could move up toward the LOS.
• Finally, as special teams take on more and more importance (as the separation of "good" and "bad" teams becomes less) it makes sense that a bunch of Frosh and Soph kids that hover around 200 lbs and can cover ground will make great punt and kickoff personnel.

In a word, this large number of CB's make us "versatile". Versatile no matter what the offensive package is, no matter their personnel, no matter how they mature and can be plugged in on special teams based on need.

PSU doesn't have a "huge" number of DBs (not relative to the rest of the college football world)
What they have now, is the "norm"

For whatever reasons, for years, before BOB came in, they had a ridiculously LOW number of DBs (even before the effect of the "sanctions" kicked in.......if you recall, PSU under Ted Roof simply didn't HAVE a scholarship 5th DB, aside from the TRFR - - - - and they came up with the scheme to use the "Big Nickle" - which was essentially a hybrid of the "Tampa 2" that folks love to talk about - as a result of that)

 

[step.eng69]

I've been thinking about the huge number of CB's we will have on the 2017 roster (and into 2021). Without having looked at other teams, I think CJF is being very, very smart here:
I enjoyed you post Obiv.

• As we all know, defenses are becoming more and more situational.
• tOSU signed a kid that is 6-3 and another that is 6-5 and can run, Michigan 6-4 and 6-5. The WR position is becoming one of size and not just speed
• Teams are also signing speed kids, like our Polk.
• Defenses have the opportunity to change the defensive package as they see the offense change their package
• So if the opponent loads up on 5-9, 4.3 40 guys or 6-4, 4.5 40 guys, the defense can bring in a 5-9 CB or a 6-2 CB to defend. Its just becoming more situational as teams move toward spread offenses more and more.
• Ask yourself, if Michigan had hired JoeMo, how would we defend them?
• We also have to keep in mind these are 17/18 year old kids. As such, even with the best medical prognostications, we have no idea how they'll fill out physically. It is easy to imagine a 5-10 185 lb kid, at age 17, will be a 6-2, 225 senior at age 23. That kid could end up playing S or OLB in the newer "speed" defenses we are seeing. So several kids brought in to play DB could move up toward the LOS.
• Finally, as special teams take on more and more importance (as the separation of "good" and "bad" teams becomes less) it makes sense that a bunch of Frosh and Soph kids that hover around 200 lbs and can cover ground will make great punt and kickoff personnel.

In a word, this large number of CB's make us "versatile". Versatile no matter what the offensive package is, no matter their personnel, no matter how they mature and can be plugged in on special teams based on need.

 

[ras5051]

You also have to remember, we lose Haley and Campbell after this year. I'd say there is more than a 50/50 chance that Reid goes pro after this year. In 2018 that would leave our CB pool to be:
Amani/Taylor (expect one of them to move to safety)
McPherson
Wade
Fields
Don Johnson
DJ Brown

I expect Tj Johnson to probably move to safety

That would be 6 corners on the depth chart chart and six safeties.. pretty nice distribution.

Safeties in 2018:
Monroe
Scott
Sutherland
Petrishen
Tj Johnson
One of Taylor/amani

This doesn't include any recruits that will be true frosh in 2018

 

[Obliviax]

You also have to remember, we lose Haley and Campbell after this year. I'd say there is more than a 50/50 chance that Reid goes pro after this year. In 2018 that would leave our CB pool to be:
Amani/Taylor (expect one of them to move to safety)
McPherson
Wade
Fields
Don Johnson
DJ Brown

I expect Tj Johnson to probably move to safety

That would be 6 corners on the depth chart chart and six safeties.. pretty nice distribution.

Safeties in 2018:
Monroe
Scott
Sutherland
Petrishen
Tj Johnson
One of Taylor/amani

This doesn't include any recruits that will be true frosh in 2018

Don't disagree on any of that...but I doubt Reid goes pro. He is a 5-10, 190 lb corner back who will be a true jr in 2017 (IIRC). he's a nice player but, unless he has a massive breakout year, won't be ready yet.

 

[ras5051]

Don't disagree on any of that...but I doubt Reid goes pro. He is a 5-10, 190 lb corner back who will be a true jr in 2017 (IIRC). he's a nice player but, unless he has a massive breakout year, won't be ready yet.

I could see him coming back for his senior year. He doesn't seem like one of the egomaniacs that the NFL is full of. However, I think he has the talent/athleticism to be a 2nd rounder. He really displays his athleticism on punt returns, I never thought he was quite as fast as what he shows on punt returns. With all that being said, I don't think he'll ever be a first rounder.

 

[wplion]

I think that Coach Franklin loves fast, athletic guys and takes lots of guys that may or may not grow into the next position. Many of our Defensive Tackles started as Linebackers or Defensive Ends. Some of our Linebackers started as Athletes or Safeties.
Also, we play 5 defensive backs much of the time. Taking 5 in one year is not that strange when you play 5 much of the time. We take 4 or 5 offensive linemen most years where you play 5 all of the time.

 

[GregInPitt]

You also have to remember, we lose Haley and Campbell after this year. I'd say there is more than a 50/50 chance that Reid goes pro after this year. In 2018 that would leave our CB pool to be:
Amani/Taylor (expect one of them to move to safety)
McPherson
Wade
Fields
Don Johnson
DJ Brown

I expect Tj Johnson to probably move to safety

That would be 6 corners on the depth chart chart and six safeties.. pretty nice distribution.

Safeties in 2018:
Monroe
Scott
Sutherland
Petrishen
Tj Johnson
One of Taylor/amani

This doesn't include any recruits that will be true frosh in 2018

That's about how I see it as well. The staff was looking ahead and wanted to be sure that they got additional great DB talent into the program and that at least some of it got experience before the next wave of CB's take take the field in 2018. And it was a great year for DB talent that CJF took great advantage of in landing the 5 DB's in the 2016 class, especially getting Castro-Fields on the last day.

A true frosh DB could see the field as well in 2018, but if Wade plays CB in 2018, along with Taylor, McPherson and the other young talent, hopefully it won't be necessary.

It's really a great year to be at the B/W game, and get a look at all the freshmen that redshirted in 2016 as well as some of the 2015 recruits that we have not seen much of, McPherson, Simmons, Joseph, Petrisen..... Wade as well. And Miller may be back at Safety. Lots to take in.

 

[ras5051]

We also don't seem to be in on many cbs in 2018. That's completely fine, since some of the 2017 class can play and some can RS. Most likely wade on d and special teams. They can maybe let fields get his feet wet on special teams. I'd expect don Johnson and brown to RS since they likely need to bulk up. Plus on the smaller CB size, in 2017, they have Haley/Reid/McPherson/wade ahead of them

 

[The Spin Meister]

There is a reason why the DBs are so important now. Football has changed from a running game to a passing game. In the JoePa era, the linebacker was the key to the D.....stop the run and force a opponent to pass.

Now teams are pass first, run second. The D has to stop the pass and force teams to run. Linebackers are just too slow. Even with read option offenses, it is critical to have speed to stop some amazing QBs that run like a deer. Also, many offense are designed to be big play offenses. Having great DBs with speed negates a lot of big plays.

Thats why the Seahawks came out of nowhere to win a Super Bowl....they had shut down corners. Its why the Steelers always lose in the playoffs....they have been drafting LBs and don't have any shutdown corners and thus play zone D instead of man. Steelers drafted DBs in the first round in the past two drafts as they saw the future. If they progress quickly, the Steelers may make another SB before Ben retires to stud.

The game has changed and so must we. Linebacker U has to become Shut Down DB U to win it all.

 

[djr4rebs]

I think a lot of it has to do with evaluations and talent distribution.

Many complained that we didn't take enough LBs in '17, but we have already taken 2 commits in '18. It's hard to always know the exact thought process. Our success has made '18 recruiting a lot easier thus far. Outside of decommits and a small class, we are bound for a top 10 ranking.

 

[SR108]

I've been thinking about the huge number of CB's we will have on the 2017 roster (and into 2021). Without having looked at other teams, I think CJF is being very, very smart here:

• As we all know, defenses are becoming more and more situational.
• tOSU signed a kid that is 6-3 and another that is 6-5 and can run, Michigan 6-4 and 6-5. The WR position is becoming one of size and not just speed
• Teams are also signing speed kids, like our Polk.
• Defenses have the opportunity to change the defensive package as they see the offense change their package
• So if the opponent loads up on 5-9, 4.3 40 guys or 6-4, 4.5 40 guys, the defense can bring in a 5-9 CB or a 6-2 CB to defend. Its just becoming more situational as teams move toward spread offenses more and more.
• Ask yourself, if Michigan had hired JoeMo, how would we defend them?
• We also have to keep in mind these are 17/18 year old kids. As such, even with the best medical prognostications, we have no idea how they'll fill out physically. It is easy to imagine a 5-10 185 lb kid, at age 17, will be a 6-2, 225 senior at age 23. That kid could end up playing S or OLB in the newer "speed" defenses we are seeing. So several kids brought in to play DB could move up toward the LOS.
• Finally, as special teams take on more and more importance (as the separation of "good" and "bad" teams becomes less) it makes sense that a bunch of Frosh and Soph kids that hover around 200 lbs and can cover ground will make great punt and kickoff personnel.

In a word, this large number of CB's make us "versatile". Versatile no matter what the offensive package is, no matter their personnel, no matter how they mature and can be plugged in on special teams based on need.

Your last point is maybe the most important. Players who can run down the field and tackle are crucial as well as having true return threats. I think Franklin is addressing those needs that have been missing.

 

[demlion]

There is another benefit to having a big crop of first class DB-field players--it will make Trace and the receivers that much better. IIRC, Wisky had a pretty highly touted pass defense, but their DBs got humiliated in the second half in Indy. They lost timing passes, jump balls, and comebackers all over the field, not to mention TJ "Gastineau" Watt getting smoked like a picnic ham on the wheel route to SB.

As the DCs of these teams begin to think about next year's game, they all know that the DBs are going to have to get better and smarter. At least some teams' DBs will get better and smarter, which means we need to improve as well, and these young guys in practice can put Trace in the situation where he cannot just wing it up there and hope for the best.

Trace was pretty damned good with the ball this year, especially considering the number of deep balls he threw into coverage, or threw in such a way that it was a jump ball, whether intentional or not. But we have to get better. This is an area where a 5-10% improvement can mean a national championship, all other things being equal.

 

[GregInPitt]

I think a lot of it has to do with evaluations and talent distribution.

Many complained that we didn't take enough LBs in '17, but we have already taken 2 commits in '18. It's hard to always know the exact thought process. Our success has made '18 recruiting a lot easier thus far. Outside of decommits and a small class, we are bound for a top 10 ranking.

Another factor has been that there were not many top LB's in PA the last couple of years, and really not that many in the traditional PSU recruiting territory. With PA loaded with LB talent this year, CJF may get 3 just out of PA, even with the Erie player committing to ND.