Opinion Article: Selection Process for Team USA

[slushhead]

A provocative topic with obvious Retherford-Diakomihalis scrutiny. The thought process described in the InterMat article might also sound familiar to those of us who have speculated over the past several years what the PSU staff considers when certain weights are closely contested.

 

[tikk10]

A provocative topic with obvious Retherford-Diakomihalis scrutiny. The thought process described in the InterMat article might also sound familiar to those of us who have speculated over the past several years what the PSU staff considers when certain weights are closely contested.

It's generally well-reasoned up to the point where it suggests that Russia's present dominance over the US is due to its selection process as compared to the US's selection process, without citing any other potential factors, such as that they might just be deeper at every weight.

 

[GogglesPaizano]

Russia's selection process is a secret, resulting from off the mat performance. It's based on who's blood test comes back cleanest.

 

[slushhead]

It's generally well-reasoned up to the point where it suggests that Russia's present dominance over the US is due to its selection process as compared to the US's selection process, without citing any other potential factors, such as that they might just be deeper at every weight.

I thought it was an objective and well-reasoned thesis, though my first gut reaction to the suggested change was "Whoa, that could get political in a hurry." But then again, it wouldn't be fair to assume the Team USA coach would be vulnerable to lobbying.

It's just too bad there are so few spots. It would be nice to see an allowance for 2 guys per weight class to make the team . . . but it's already hard enough to simply get more weight classes reinstated.

 

[RoarLions1]

I thought it was an objective and well-reasoned thesis, though my first gut reaction to the suggested change was "Whoa, that could get political in a hurry." But then again, it wouldn't be fair to assume the Team USA coach would be vulnerable to lobbying.

It's just too bad there are so few spots. It would be nice to see an allowance for 2 guys per weight class to make the team . . . but it's already hard enough to simply get more weight classes reinstated.

With you on the politics, or can I say drama of not using wrestle-offs.

In college, a coach sees his wrestlers every day, and it's easier (not that it's easy at all) than applying the same logic across different RTC's and different coaches for Senior Freestyle.

 

[tikk10]

I thought it was an objective and well-reasoned thesis, though my first gut reaction to the suggested change was "Whoa, that could get political in a hurry." But then again, it wouldn't be fair to assume the Team USA coach would be vulnerable to lobbying.

It's just too bad there are so few spots. It would be nice to see an allowance for 2 guys per weight class to make the team . . . but it's already hard enough to simply get more weight classes reinstated.

Yeah, I don't have any particular problem with any particular point he made, except inasmuch as he connects them all to make the overarching point that Russia's selection system is the cause of Russia's success relative to the US team's process, because I think there's good reason to doubt as much. I think that if Russia went to the same wrestle-off system as the US employs, they'd still be the best in the world, top to bottom.

But you're right that it'd be a political minefield if the US went to a system bestowing so much power on a coach or group of coaches. And even if any such person or persons could handle the pressure with bulletproof integrity, scenarios would arise that would put such coaches in 'appearances' conflicts, such as if Koll was the coach or one of the coaches permitted to decide our 65kg rep. You can slip some of that by instituting automatic recusals upon certain scenarios, but such a system would still put certain coaches in bad spots.

I think there'd be a longer-term downside, though, in that we'd get fewer wrestlers out of D1 willing to stick around the sport if their opportunity to make the US team was taken from them and given to a coach or board. Russians wrestlers are fine with that because corruption is so baked into the pie that they don't know what fairness tastes like. But US wrestlers would rebel and/or stop showing up if we let start letting the coaches decide who makes the team.

 

[LorenzoFan]

I for one never liked the process we use. Is it fair? Maybe to the athlete. I don’t think it puts the best team on the mat.

I remember in 96, KJ was the reigning world champ. Gutches was an upstart stud. KJ trained for the world. Gutches trained for KJ. I still think the wrong guy went to Atlanta.

 

[El-Jefe]

It's just too bad there are so few spots. It would be nice to see an allowance for 2 guys per weight class to make the team . . . but it's already hard enough to simply get more weight classes reinstated.

I'll take Zain + Yianni over the field in Olympic Tag Team Wrestling.

Likewise Snyder + Cox.

 

[Dogwelder]

... I remember in 96, KJ was the reigning world champ. Gutches was an upstart stud. KJ trained for the world. Gutches trained for KJ. I still think the wrong guy went to Atlanta.

That’s why I never show how awesome I am. If I were to do so, people would scout my secrets and train for me. Who needs the aggravation?

 

[jtothemfp]

Yeah, I don't have any particular problem with any particular point he made, except inasmuch as he connects them all to make the overarching point that Russia's selection system is the cause of Russia's success relative to the US team's process, because I think there's good reason to doubt as much. I think that if Russia went to the same wrestle-off system as the US employs, they'd still be the best in the world, top to bottom.

But you're right that it'd be a political minefield if the US went to a system bestowing so much power on a coach or group of coaches. And even if any such person or persons could handle the pressure with bulletproof integrity, scenarios would arise that would put such coaches in 'appearances' conflicts, such as if Koll was the coach or one of the coaches permitted to decide our 65kg rep. You can slip some of that by instituting automatic recusals upon certain scenarios, but such a system would still put certain coaches in bad spots.

I think there'd be a longer-term downside, though, in that we'd get fewer wrestlers out of D1 willing to stick around the sport if their opportunity to make the US team was taken from them and given to a coach or board. Russians wrestlers are fine with that because corruption is so baked into the pie that they don't know what fairness tastes like. But US wrestlers would rebel and/or stop showing up if we let start letting the coaches decide who makes the team.

Good stuff, Tikk, and thanks for sharing, Slush! I agree with both of you that the piece was well-thought & well-written, but I think the dubious suggestions & solutions you point out were fait d'accompli when Allen Stein asked these two questions, back to back: "Should the objective be to ensure we have a fair process? Or should the goal be that we send the best team possible?"

It's an absurdly subjective question, that second one. And if we distilled all of our favorite sport's problems to a singular element, it'd be the unbalanced seesaw of Subjectivity & Objectivity.

A more provocative leading question, imo, is how can we make things even less subjective, not more?