Orso article on JS, Paterno, Kane, Fina, Williams.....
- Thread starter Obliviax
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It's dizzying to keep track of the actors in this political power play. Or maybe political power melodrama is more appropriate. It's a coincidence that the state AG (a female Democrat) and the Centre County DA (a female Democrat) are embroiled in battles with established old boy networks. That's not meant as a political comment but rather a statement of fact.
Good to see she has moved on from hanging on street corners to report on drunken football players.
So let me get this straight, Fina ( and all the rest ) lived large on child porn that was thrown up on the internet by the so called victims being served by The Second Mile or CYS and the so called victims parleyed that into million dollar payouts by Penn State, but Fina ( and all the rest ) in order to keep this under the wraps they accused / prosecuted Sandusky and by default, Penn State and JoePa?
Now that "PornGate" has exploded, Fina and all the rest want to get AG Kane so they can to keep the wool over our eyes? Because hell on high wheels money is involved and people's live are at stake.
THEIR LYING THIEVING LIVES !!
Me thinks we need a real investigation and a new trial for Sandusky. A trial that will prosecute all the lying victims that took the money.
N i t t a n y A m e r i c a
Now that "PornGate" has exploded, Fina and all the rest want to get AG Kane so they can to keep the wool over our eyes? Because hell on high wheels money is involved and people's live are at stake.
THEIR LYING THIEVING LIVES !!
Me thinks we need a real investigation and a new trial for Sandusky. A trial that will prosecute all the lying victims that took the money.
N i t t a n y A m e r i c a
Wait. The guy prosecuting Kathleen Kane happens to be President of the Penn State Alumni Association? And the Board of Trustees' new rules guarantee him a future seat on the #PSUBoT??
I'm not sure where you're getting all that. The controversy stems from emails sent by a now-retired agent in the AG's office (I'm not sure of his background prior to his time at the AG, but if I were to wager a guess, he likely has a background in law enforcement) and received by both agents, attorneys, and other related staff members both in the AG's office, the state troopers and other assorted outside entities. The issue currently - what came out last week and what has Fina in hot water - is that several of those emails were not only received by Fina, but forwarded by him to other parties as well. There wasn't merely passive involvement (receiving emails and taking no further action) but active involvement (forwarding the messages to those not in the chain).
I'm not sure where you're getting the bits about child pornography or any association with the Second Mile or Sandusky's victims. There's virtually no relation to The Second Mile or Jerry's victims in the email controversy aside from the emails being discovered by Kane's team as she was inspecting email records as part of her investigation into the Sandusky prosecution. But the actual emails don't seem to have too much relation to Sandusky, Penn State or The Second Mile that I can see.
Be careful... I don't recall seeing "child porn" mentioned anywhere. Maybe to some that's an unimportant distinction but legally speaking, it's a huge distinction. I recall all kinds of loose interpretations of Paterno stuff, including misinformation being repeated as fact, leading to all the issues we're facing regarding his involvement so be careful Nittany America. Passing pron around by Govt. officials is bad enough, we don't need to misrepresent the facts.
I agree...on the other hand, it ended up being information that foretold the player's future with Penn State football.
I don't recall Kane saying there was child porn. However, certain media articles & responses suggested that. To see what Kane actually said, see the linked article:
Kane has not ruled out charges in email scandal, spokeswoman says - The Morning Call
http://www.mcall.com/news/breaking/mc-kathleen-kane-email-charges-20141120-story.html
On Wednesday, Martin said some photos of children were among sexually explicit images and videos uncovered during a search of the Attorney General's Office email archive when Kane reviewed the handling of the Jerry Sandusky investigation.
One image shows a boy and girl of 5 or 6 who appear to have just run under a lawn sprinkler. Each is wearing underwear but no shirt. The girl is holding out the front of her underwear, and the boy is looking inside it. Another image shows two clothed children, under 5, kissing on the lips.
...
"When I saw them, they literally took my breath away," Kane said in reference to all the sexually explicit emails. "They are deplorable, hard-core, graphic, sometimes-violent emails that had a string of videos and pictures depicting sometimes children, old women. Some of them involved violent sexual acts against women."
"...we don't need to misrepresent the facts". Otherwise we mimic the Freeh Report and "leaked" GJ presentment.
Well, to be fair, Kane is a smart woman - I think she absolutely knew that the implication in her statement that some of the hardcore, graphic, deplorable, violent pornographic content "depicted children" was that child pornography was involved and exchanged even if Kane didn't say the specific words "child pornography", and I think that implication was intentional.
finally a journalist stepping up. maybe she smells an opportunity to blow the lid off of things. good for her, keep after it.
The point about the child porn is that pedophiles have child porn on their computers. They found ZERO on Jerry's computers. Child pornography and soiled underwear can be used to get pedophiles to confess. Obviously. no parent found their victim with soiled underwear and BOT PR posters point out that it is too late to get forensic evidence on underwear.
It is not too late to use forensics to find child porn on Jerry's computer. It is ironic that those who prosecuted Jerry and may have suggested Jerry allegedly erased child porn have been found to have porn on their computers.
It is not too late to use forensics to find child porn on Jerry's computer. It is ironic that those who prosecuted Jerry and may have suggested Jerry allegedly erased child porn have been found to have porn on their computers.
You don't think these investigators were peddling in "Child Porn?" If it was just nasty porn, then there would be no big deal, dealing Kane the hard one.
Think again.
"When The Whip Comes Down" -- Jaggar / Richards
N i t t a n y A m e r i c a
No porn was found on Jerry's computers because Frank Fina gave Jerry a two-year head start to get rid of any evidence.
Let's not pretend that makes Jerry innocent.
I will only qualify, as Fina et al learned the hard way, you really cannot scrub files (unless you degauss like a MF)
Nice call out for our very own Zenophile! Not exactly the rabble rouser that ChitownLion is, but he is getting on the Twitter radar!
So were you holding Sandusky's hand for two years while he was deleting his porn collection?
Think about what you are saying before saying it.
N i t t a n y A m e r i c a
Nor should we pretend that, during those two years, anything was erased or that the delay makes Jerry guilty.
Aoshiro, I cannot be any more objective. I will allow Jerry to rot in jail. if he confesses, if there is a reliable eye witness or if there is forensic evidence. Jerry never confessed nor has Dottie. Mike's story has unraveled. I like Mike and I think he embellished after the detectives convinced him Jerry was a Monster. Jerry should never have been convicted of a felony on hearsay evidence where there was no victim nor date. Original testimony proves the janitor told the prosecution that Jerry was NOT the man he witnessed. No parent found their "victim" to have soiled underwear, where we could prove blood or DNA evidence. Pedophiles have kiddie porn on their computers and your objection is that Jerry had two years to erase it. Valid objection,
However, forensics can find kiddie porn on Jerry's computer after he erased it. They haven't, have they?
Furthermore, Matt was going to testify for Jerry until he talked to Shubin, cited abuse and got $3 million. However, Matt told Oprah that many walked in on Jerry's performance and were not sure. Today they can be sure and they can become hero's for stepping up, where are these eyewitnesses?
Myers was going to testify for Jerry until he talked to Shubin, cited abuse and got $3 million. Being objective, the prosecutors said that Myers was not V2. Fair enough, until Shubin boasted to reporters all the victims he represented including V2. Are you kidding me? Not only has Shubin not been indicted, BUT there hasn't even been a hearing about being disbarred for his blunder.
Oh well, I guess it is not important to you that I was posting on philly.com against people calling PSU pedophile enablers. Until there is a new trial, just learn to live with the fact that the consensus is that everyone at PSU knew Jerry was a pedo and no one did anything about it.
I cannot pretend or prove Jerry is innocent, but there is NO evidence that he had sex with anybody.
However, forensics can find kiddie porn on Jerry's computer after he erased it. They haven't, have they?
Furthermore, Matt was going to testify for Jerry until he talked to Shubin, cited abuse and got $3 million. However, Matt told Oprah that many walked in on Jerry's performance and were not sure. Today they can be sure and they can become hero's for stepping up, where are these eyewitnesses?
Myers was going to testify for Jerry until he talked to Shubin, cited abuse and got $3 million. Being objective, the prosecutors said that Myers was not V2. Fair enough, until Shubin boasted to reporters all the victims he represented including V2. Are you kidding me? Not only has Shubin not been indicted, BUT there hasn't even been a hearing about being disbarred for his blunder.
Oh well, I guess it is not important to you that I was posting on philly.com against people calling PSU pedophile enablers. Until there is a new trial, just learn to live with the fact that the consensus is that everyone at PSU knew Jerry was a pedo and no one did anything about it.
I cannot pretend or prove Jerry is innocent, but there is NO evidence that he had sex with anybody.
By that standard you will let sex offenders who target children out of jail by the thousands. What forensic evidence? Hair samples? Used in many a false conviction. Semen? You have no idea what you are talking about. Kids who are sexually abused are often so ashamed and scared they tell no one. By your standard another third or so of all CSA perps will walk.
As for the second point quoted above, your notion is that people can come forward 3+ years after Jerry's trial and say they were eyewitnesses and not get asked why they did not come forward? For the love of Pete, try thinking this stuff through first.
I followed a serial child rapist that was being tried in NY (I think Brooklyn) pretty much the same time as Sandusky's trial. The child rapist admitted in court his sexual love for one of the victims. This pedophile should be rotting in jail, yet the judge gave him two years. TWO FREAKING YEARS! I am all for letting these perverts rot in jail IF there is evidence and they are guilty beyond a shadow of doubt. Jerry is not guilty of having sex with anyone beyond a reasonable doubt. I doubt there are more than 1,000 child sex offenders in the entire country who are serving more than 40 years and probably less than 100.
Aaron's mother is a saint for following up on this. How come she did not see soiled underwear? Do you think Aaron washed his own clothes? BTW, she did serve a restraining order against her husband, because she thought he was abusing Aaron. I think Aaron's step-father is a serial child rapist and should be rotting in jail. Why? Because he admitted to it.
You are right people may find it difficult to come forward 3+ years later, if it happened to you, but not seeing it happen to some other kid. How hard is it to say words to the effect - Matt is right, I saw Jerry possibly performing, but at the time I thought it was clean innocent fun.
BTW, you reminded me. The biggest reason I think Jerry is innocent is that he had a slew of other kids that were groomed and obligated to Jerry. And when Matt asked them (his fellow adopted brothers) to join him and testify, they refused. I think these kids deserve HIGH praise. Any of them could have said that Jerry rubbed up against their genitals while tucking them in and the BOT would have paid them a cool million.
Aaron's mother is a saint for following up on this. How come she did not see soiled underwear? Do you think Aaron washed his own clothes? BTW, she did serve a restraining order against her husband, because she thought he was abusing Aaron. I think Aaron's step-father is a serial child rapist and should be rotting in jail. Why? Because he admitted to it.
You are right people may find it difficult to come forward 3+ years later, if it happened to you, but not seeing it happen to some other kid. How hard is it to say words to the effect - Matt is right, I saw Jerry possibly performing, but at the time I thought it was clean innocent fun.
BTW, you reminded me. The biggest reason I think Jerry is innocent is that he had a slew of other kids that were groomed and obligated to Jerry. And when Matt asked them (his fellow adopted brothers) to join him and testify, they refused. I think these kids deserve HIGH praise. Any of them could have said that Jerry rubbed up against their genitals while tucking them in and the BOT would have paid them a cool million.
1. Not every pedophile uses pornography to groom victims.
2. Not a single victim at Jerry's trial testified to Jerry showing them porn. Gee, how about that!!
3. No emails were found between Jerry and any of the victims.
4. Jerry made old fashioned photo albums with press clippings in them. He made handmade birthday cards and also included press clippings.
5. Jerry's retirement requests were typed on a typewriter.
This all adds up to Jerry not using computers. No need to do forensic searches.
Jerry didn't need to use porn, his grooming activities were wrestling with boys and playing physical games with them....followed by showering.
In his appeal, Jerry's idiot attorney included the interview from Victim 6, in which the then 11 year old stated that Jerry turned the showers on BEFORE they played Polish Soccer. HELLO. Jerry turned on TWO showers before they were even done working out....what do you think his intentions were in that gym that day?
He had to coax that eleven year old into the showers. The kid had never even been in that situation before, so Jerry told him "all the big guys do it." After he got the kid in the shower, he gave him a hug while naked.
Most reasonable people understand what this all means.
The standard is proof beyond a reasonable doubt.
Jerry CONFESSED to abusing Aaron Fisher. He did so with his attorney present. When that evidence was introduced at trial, his attorney did not object.
You are simply confused over what constitutes child abuse. You also clearly misunderstand that some forms of child sexual abuse will not leave an evidence trail.
You are also confused over the definition of grooming. Jerry didn't groom every kid he came in contact with, just like he didn't groom all of the kids he adopted. Jerry selected his victims based on the amount of dependence that the child would have on him. Same with the other victims.
Yeah i was surprised Lindsay included V6s interview...a number of red flags there.
Btw Ray....i noticed CYS Miller says midway through that interview..."Ok. They are going to have to wait." It seems hes saying this to Schreffler who was present. Any idea who "they" might be?
What does your defense mean? Where did I post that Jerry used child porn to groom kids or to show kids? Where did I write that Jerry emailed kids? Jerry had computers. Jerry used computers. Pedophiles use computers to watch kiddie porn. If all rapers watch porn and if Fina was convicted of hearsay rape without a victim or a date, would my defense be, Where did Fina use porn to show women? or Fina had no porn on his computer.
You are now trying to show Jerry groomed the boys. Just because he showered with boys does not mean he raped them. Your argument is a good one that Jerry did not have time fora defense and a good defense lawyer. I would think a good defense is that Jerry was trying to outdo his father. His father helped underprivileged kids at a Y. His father was touchy feely to young men and showered with them, because they did not have a father figure and no father figure is the #1 bond among men in prison. Do I think Jerry went overboard? Yes. Do I think Jerry had sex with anyone. No! There is reasonable doubt. Ray, since you are the expert, please share with me and others what the average prison sentence is for pedophiles, who are convicted beyond a shadow of a doubt (confession, reliable eyewitness or forensic evidence).
Ray you wrote a while back to me that you are not trying to prove Joe innocent, but you want the truth to come out. Your main objective is to get stickler child codes. I agree that pedophiles beyond a shadow of a doubt need stricter penalties and DPW has to be more watchful; but there is a danger of making it too tough for men to want to help minister to kids or to adopt or be a foster parent.
Yes Ray I do need your help in answering this - Ray, since you are the expert, please share with me and others what the average prison sentence is for pedophiles, who are convicted beyond a shadow of a doubt (confession, reliable eyewitness or forensic evidence).
You continue to state that pedophiles are convicted mainly through victim testimony only and I would love to see where you got those stats, since you are the expert at finding these reports.
Todd,
Sandusky was not convicted for 43 crimes. He was not convicted of having a medical disorder -- something that is determined by clinical diagnosis, not by a jury.
Please refer to the FBI manual regarding how these cases are investigated so that they can be prosecuted successfully. Ken Lanning wrote it. Again, corroborating testimony is the key and that was definitely provided at Jerry's trial. NEWSFLASH -- the jury determined the testimony was credible, despite vigorous cross-examination by the defense.
As for sentencing, obviously it varies by the number of counts and the severity of each count. The question you are asking about average sentences for a MENTAL DISORDER goes to my point that you "need help" in understanding the very basics of this case and how the legal system works.
Have a nice day.
The Mayo Clinic did a study and 80% of Pedos had child porn in some fashion, pics, books, mags, computers. 60% of them were also over age 45.
As I pointed out above, that was not part of Jerry's grooming approach. Also, Jerry's use of a typewriter (in 1998) to write his retirement letter/request is rather telling that he was not a computer user.
The whole PSU condemnation was based on the wrong stereotype being applied to Jerry. This issue is another case of attempting to apply a stereotype that doesn't fit.
He wouldn't use them to groom, but to get himself worked up. You can't imagine how much of that crap is in print, mostly from oversees and Mexico. There was a notorious guy from Uniontown, by the name of Schellenberger who ran "band camps" mainly in Mexico and he had tons of the crap so he could get steamed up.
It's rather obvious Jerry got steamed up by rolling around with these kids on the floor during workouts or during the back cracking sessions in bed. According to his book, he took Dottie on dates to watch youth sports games. Need I say more?
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