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OT: 2020 Rock n Roll HOF inductees

wbcincy said:
Depeche Mode
The Doobie Brothers
Whitney Houston
Nine Inch Nails
The Notorious B.I.G.
T.Rex

Ahmet Ertegun Awardees:
Irving Azoff
Jon Landau
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Wait, are these the inductees? FU*K YEAH NIN!!! AND DEPECHE MODE!! WOW. Great day for fans of those bands, especially DM who have never really been acknowledged for their massive contributions to pop music and the British New Wave scene. Trent and Dave Gahan are pretty good friends - should be a fun induction ceremony to watch.

And I'll add I'm STUNNED DMB didn't get in. Cool that the ceremony will be live this year too.

@wbcincy - Any insight as to what the voting body was thinking this year? Pretty progressive recognizing NIN and DM - I thought you mentioned you had a friend who had a vote?

Trent upon hearing the news this morning (Rolling Stone interview):

It’s going to be in Cleveland, which I imagine will be extra special to you because of your history there.

Yeah. I remember back when there was first talk of a Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. There was somewhat, as I recall, of a competition about what city would get it. I was working at a music shop that sold keyboards and drum machines. There was some effort on the part of the store to draw up interest because they thought it would be a cool thing because the city needed something other than sports in order to focus it. It’s crazy to think all these years later that, wow, against all odds, I wound up as a part of that.

You started your first album there, so it’s going full circle.

I grew up about an hour and a half outside of Cleveland and got sucked into Cleveland once I dropped out of school. To me, there was a pretty vibrant music scene happening there, especially compared to Pittsburgh, the other close city to me at the time. And I cut my teeth there, played in some bands and went through my early twenties. “I better do something with my life.” Then I had the opportunity to work in a studio there and really focus on what would become Nine Inch Nails and really hone the vision and blueprint of what that remains to this day, in Cleveland. That’s a romantic, rose-colored glasses vision of my Cleveland years.

They are just taking you and nobody else from the band. Was that the right call?

My preference would be that my band get inducted. I’m not the one deciding that, but there’s an effort on my part to acknowledge that.

It’s a pretty cool group this year. I imagine you like Depeche Mode and Biggie and T. Rex.

I’m thrilled Depeche finally made it in. When it gets weird for me is when you think about, “Okay, who’s in? Who’s out?” And you see Kraftwerk and Todd Rundgren not get in. That’s when it’s like, “Okay, what’s the criteria here? These guys should absolutely ****ing be in there.” Both of those that I mentioned were hugely influential. I don’t think I would be me had those guys not existed. That’s where I think of it with a grain of salt.

I also think about Joy Division/New Order.

Sure. When you start pulling on the thread, how do you make all that make sense? It is what it is. I think the weirdest feeling for me at the moment is that regardless of where I am, I don’t feel like I fit in anywhere. There’s no Sirius satellite radio station I can put on that is my type of music or even plays Nine Inch Nails for that matter. I assumed we’d have that same fate in the judgement of the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. So I’m allowing myself, for a limited period of time, to feel good about this.

I presume you’re going to come and perform.

Yeah. We’re going to do it up.

You wore a tux to the Oscars, but I can’t imagine you wearing one as you’re singing “March of the Pigs.”

That probably won’t happen. [Laughs] You never know, though.

Can you imagine a big all-star jam with you and Depeche Mode and some of the others?

That’s a little fuzzier. [Laughs]

It’ll be interesting to see who inducts you. Any idea who you want to see do that?

No. Like I said, this is still fresh information. And I just had a new baby over the weekend.

Wow! Congratulations!

Thank you. Lots of action here.

I see NIN and Depeche Mode’s induction as vindication for the type of music you make. For so long, the Hall of Fame seemed to strongly favor guitar-based bands and they seemed to look down on groups that used synthesizers.

Yeah. I would hope that’s the case. And there’s the inclusion of some hip-hop acts. To me, it’s the spirit of rock and roll. That doesn’t mean it has to be guitar/bass/drums. It can be a turntable, a computer, a synthesizer, sequencer. They are all tools. It’s the spirit of expression and, to me, freedom and no limits to expression. That’s my version of what rock means and the method of achieving doesn’t need to be quantified to where it has to have this instrument.

It’s cool seeing Whitney Houston too. It’s all rock.

Yeah. With that said, let’s get more synthesizers out there to round it out a little bit.

Yeah. They should take in Kraftwerk and Gary Numan and, again, Joy Division. It’s time.

I completely agree with you.

I’ve read you might tour this year. Is that right?

We’re talking about doing some shows this year, yes. Nothing announced yet. We’re coming off what seems like an endless amount of time we’ve been scoring films. We had a few projects but into each other. I’m itching. I’m ready.

Are you thinking about returning to the bigger venues after playing those large theaters on the last tour?

I don’t know. I’m not exactly sure what the plan is. We enjoyed that last run. Before we’d take anything on, there really is a “hit the pause button” and sit down with our team and say, “What feels right?” It’s not automatically, do the thing without thinking it through. That last wave of playing multiple nights and varied setlist in theaters had an intimacy to it that felt cool. I feel like Spinal Tap when I say those words, when he’s trying to justify having a small audience.

“Their appeal has become more selective.”

Exactly! [Laughs] We’ll see what makes sense here.

Are you still working on that collaborative album you talked about?

I kind of blurted that out without thinking deeply through. We aren’t far along in the process. It’s literally been every single day trying to dig ourselves out of the scoring hole that we got ourselves into. That is our desire and there’s been some things done, but it’s not imminent. Nothing is about to come out.

So the tour might be first?

Might be, yeah. We might put some little bits out. We’re not sure yet.

Well, I’m sure you’re looking forward to the induction ceremony. It’s going to be pretty amazing.

I’m already anxious. [Laughs] My social anxiety is already kicking in.

This is the first year where HBO is running it live, so that’s extra pressure.

Thanks for bringing that up! [Laughs]

 
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I used to love all those Whitney Houston guitar solos. Brings back great memories. If it's possible for this wretched organization to actually take a step backwards, they just did it. How did they square Joan Jett over Benatar in the first place?
 
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Two out of the five aren’t even rock. This is not the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame anymore. It’s the whatever the popular music of the day is. I’m surprised they haven’t reached back and inducted Frank Sinatra or the Dorsey brothers, you know because jazz is somewhat of a forerunner of rock. How about Pine Top for his Boogie Woogie. Whitney Houston and a (c)Rap artist? Give me a break.

This is like when Jethro Tull (a progressive rock band) won the first ever award for Metal at the Grammy’s instead of a real Metal artist like Metallica who they were up against. The Grammys are an absolute joke as well.
 
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It would be pretty cool if everyone just accepted and understood what the Rock HOF is doing with the variety of genres relating to but not directly RnR, instead of just using every mention of the Hall as an opportunity to voice the same outrage. Rock n Roll comes from blues, R&B, country, gospel, etc. Those acts are going to be recognized because they still influence rock n roll. It's not the end of the world.

@Midnighter I'm not sure there's any coherent theme or thought to it because it's such a large voting pool. The voting process is secretive, but for example, the largest group of voters is current people in the HOF. No way to know how they're deciding and they certainly aren't getting together to plan how they'll all vote.
 
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Big 0 said:
Two out of the five aren’t even rock. This is not the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame anymore. It’s the whatever the popular music of the day is. I’m surprised they haven’t reached back and inducted Frank Sinatra or the Dorsey brothers, you know because jazz is somewhat of a forerunner of rock. How about Pine Top for his Boogie Woogie. Whitney Houston and a (c)Rap artist? Give me a break.

This is like when Jethro Tull (a progressive rock band) won the first ever award for Metal at the Grammy’s instead of a real Metal artist like Metallica who they were up against. The Grammys are an absolute joke as well.
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She did the sure thing to get in...she died. “Artists” can’t miss an opportunity to make themselves feel better.
 
NittanyChris said:
DePeche Mode is a joke.
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AWS1022 said:
She did the sure thing to get in...she died. “Artists” can’t miss an opportunity to make themselves feel better.
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How is this any different from sports halls of fame or awards? I get a lot of people are are cynical about 'artists' and especially hate that some people enjoy their work and like watching them receive awards, but none of these guys are getting $40mm a year to throw a ball in a kid's game.
 
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Midnighter said:
How is this any different from sports halls of fame or awards? I get a lot of people are are cynical about 'artists' and especially hate that some people enjoy their work and like watching them receive awards, but none of these guys are getting $40mm a year to throw a ball in a kid's game.
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Because the rock and roll HOF is much more subjective. If an athlete dies, it would be tough to put him in the HOF if he doesn’t have the numbers.
 
AWS1022 said:
Because the rock and roll HOF is much more subjective. If an athlete dies, it would be tough to put him in the HOF if he doesn’t have the numbers.
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I think that's a fair point, but the voters consider more than just critical acclaim/awards and sales (stuff they can quantify) - they consider the influence and significance of the artists' contributions to the development and perpetuation of rock and roll. Now that 'rock and roll' has become a catch all for (mostly) popular music acts of any genre, this means pretty much any performer/band. That said, Whitney Houston is and should be a lock given any combination of criteria (except that she has ever actually performed rock). You can make a case The Notorious BIG, who only put out two studio albums before his death (and two posthumously), probably should have to wait a bit before he sniffs any HOF consideration. Of course, he got in first try....so, not perfect by any stretch. But, as a fan, I'm happy to see Trent Reznor/NIN get in as well as Depeche Mode - basically the soundtrack to my teen/college years.
 
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Midnighter said:
How is this any different from sports halls of fame or awards? I get a lot of people are are cynical about 'artists' and especially hate that some people enjoy their work and like watching them receive awards, but none of these guys are getting $40mm a year to throw a ball in a kid's game.
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#duh
Art, unlike a sport, is hardly quantifiable...
The Rock n Roll HOF is about as relevant as the Food Hall of Fame or the Toy Hall of Fame...

it’s dumb
 
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Midnighter said:
That said, Whitney Houston is and should be a lock given any combination of criteria (except that she has ever actually performed rock)
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Sums it up right there, and demonstrates why people say WTF (which you do well btw)?

Why is she a lock? Why isn't Dolly Parton? Why isn't Carly Simon? Why isn't solo Tina Turner? Why isn't Karen Carpenter? WHY ISN'T PAT BENATAR for crying out loud? This is a ridiculous exercise that gets worse every year. Sorry.
 
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massimoManca II said:
#duh
Art, unlike a sport, is hardly quantifiable...
The Rock n Roll HOF is about as relevant as the Food Hall of Fame or the Toy Hall of Fame...

it’s dumb
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Sure it is - record sales, concert revenue, award wins. You don't like, totally fine.
 
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MtNittany said:
Sums it up right there, and demonstrates why people say WTF (which you do well btw)?

Why is she a lock? Why isn't Dolly Parton? Why isn't Carly Simon? Why isn't solo Tina Turner? Why isn't Karen Carpenter? WHY ISN'T PAT BENATAR for crying out loud? This is a ridiculous exercise that gets worse every year. Sorry.
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What excuse? Dolly Parton should be in. Before Whitney, before any of the inductees this year. Tina Turner, Karen Carpenter, and Pat Benatar too. The RRHOF has 888 inductees - 69 are women. Every inductee has a vote. I think you see where this is going.
 
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Midnighter said:
What excuse? Dolly Parton should be in. Before Whitney, before any of the inductees this year. Tina Turner, Karen Carpenter, and Pat Benatar too. The RRHOF has 888 inductees - 69 are women. Every inductee has a vote. I think you see where this is going.
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Oh. It's misogynist men voters keeping them out. I see now. You take the cake Midnighter. The male/female ratio is real life. It's bad taste and payola keeping the good ones out.

BTW -What's your stance on GC in the RRHOF? He played guitar on probably 1/4 of the 60's records celebrated in Cleveland. White male though, so no room huh?

Better yet - what's your stance on Boston and Styx?
 
MtNittany said:
Oh. It's misogynist men voters keeping them out. I see now. You take the cake Midnighter. The male/female ratio is real life. It's bad taste and payola keeping the good ones out.

BTW -What's your stance on GC in the RRHOF? He played guitar on probably 1/4 of the 60's records celebrated in Cleveland. White male though, so no room huh?

Better yet - what's your stance on Boston and Styx?
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It's more likely that the number of men is simply that many/most bands are made up of 'white men' - so, when Pearl Jam gets inducted, that's five white guys. When Whitney Houston gets inducted, that's one black woman. I don't think there is a deliberate attempt to 'keep women' out, but clearly there are some serious blind spots. As you noted - Dolly Parton; one of the best songwriters of any genre ever. She should have been in on day one.

Who or what is GC? Glenn Campbell?

I like Styx - I grew up with 'Killroy Was Here' but by the time I was really getting into music, they weren't on my radar. They've had a long and successful run - sold tons of albums. I think they should be in. Boston is a bit before my time - I really only know 'More Than a Feeling.' They have six studio albums - I'd have to judge them against contemporaries but my gut says they're big/influential enough to be in.

Anything else?
 
massimoManca II said:
You must have a cellar full of Barefoot, Yellow Tail, and Franzia...
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If you're trying to say that 'sales' equals success/critical acclaim in the wine industry in the same way that it could be indicative of the same in the music industry, swing and a miss.

If you're up for browsing my wine collection let me know.
 
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Midnighter said:
If you're trying to say that 'sales' equals success/critical acclaim in the wine industry in the same way that it could be indicative of the same in the music industry, swing and a miss.

If you're up for browsing my wine collection let me know.
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I’m saying that commercial success ≠ quality ...

Furthermore, I’m not going to bother with someone who believes STYX deserves recognition in the HOF ... #ennEFFdubbya

EXHIBIT A. why Styx should never be allowed near Cleveland #worstsongever #worstvideoever
 
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massimoManca II said:
#duh
Art, unlike a sport, is hardly quantifiable...
The Rock n Roll HOF is about as relevant as the Food Hall of Fame or the Toy Hall of Fame...

it’s dumb
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Guess I didn't realize more than half a million people visit the food or toy halls of fame annually.
 
Like every year, where is Emerson Lake and Palmer? Their talent and influence is indisputable.
 
MtNittany said:
I used to love all those Whitney Houston guitar solos. Brings back great memories. If it's possible for this wretched organization to actually take a step backwards, they just did it. How did they square Joan Jett over Benatar in the first place?
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Need to change to music Hall of Fame. Whitney Houston - while a huge talent - never played a R&R song...let alone at a level meriting entry into Hall of Fame.
 
wbcincy said:
Guess I didn't realize more than half a million people visit the food or toy halls of fame annually.
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Don’t kid yourself institution in Cleveland is not the Smithsonian... it’s a business venture...

Music, not unlike food, is personal... everyone has their own personal music HOF - it’s all of the stuff that you keep in your record/CD collection or on your device... I don’t need Jan Wenner to tell me what food I like, nor do I need to tell me which groups he has deemed as worthy
 
massimoManca II said:
Don’t kid yourself institution in Cleveland is not the Smithsonian... it’s a business venture...

Music, not unlike food, is personal... everyone has their own personal music HOF - it’s all of the stuff that you keep in your record/CD collection or on your device... I don’t need Jan Wenner to tell me what food I like, nor do I need to tell me which groups he has deemed as worthy
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Who says you have to like who is inducted, or that you’re being instructed to do so?

The Hall tells the history of the genre through the most influential performers to have played a role, as decided by a large group of music critics, historians, and artists. How that can be offensive is beyond me.
 
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It really should be called the Popular Music Hall of Fame, not that there's anything wrong with that.
 
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wbcincy said:
Who says you have to like who is inducted, or that you’re being instructed to do so?

The Hall tells the history of the genre through the most influential performers to have played a role, as decided by a large group of music critics, historians, and artists. How that can be offensive is beyond me.
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As determined by Jan Wenner... of genres he deems worthy... hope your band hasn’t done anything to anger /cross Rolling Stone magazine!!!

A popular music museum is nice, but no need to call it a Hall of Fame
 
massimoManca II said:
As determined by Jan Wenner... of genres he deems worthy... hope your band hasn’t done anything to anger /cross Rolling Stone magazine!!!

A popular music museum is nice, but no need to call it a Hall of Fame
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You’re going to have to explain how you think it is Jan wields such control. It’s a very large group of people making these decisions, both on nominating and especially voting.
 
wbcincy said:
You’re going to have to explain how you think it is Jan wields such control. It’s a very large group of people making these decisions, both on nominating and especially voting.
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This was never any secret

https://www.showbiz411.com/2019/09/...like-his-private-fiefdom-steps-down-at-age-73

Jann’s heyday was the 60s and early 70s, that’s for sure. Rolling Stone was never a place for black acts (except for those Ertegun pushed in). When New Wave and punk came around in the mid 70s, Rolling Stone ignored them and doubled down on groups like Fleetwood Mac and the Eagles. Wenner was addicted to West Coast soft rock. As an east coast reader, I knew it was time to deplane for the NME and Melody Maker early on.

Those tastes influenced the Hall of Fame inductions once the true pioneers of rock were safely inducted. The Hall really eschewed the trailblazers of the mid 70s to 80s unless they were on Stein’s Sire Records, or the chorus of endorsements was too strong to avoid. And Wenner seemed to enjoy keeping certain 70s acts out as long as possible.​
 
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