OT: Chinese company buys West Virginia....sorta

[The Spin Meister]

A Chinese firm is going to invest $87 billion over the next twenty years in West Virginia's oil, gas, and petrochemical industries. Thats a HUGE amount of money. So is this a good thing? It will create thousands of good jobs, help thousands of people, in and around WV. It will also supply our country with a cheap supply of needed petrol-chemical products.

In November, Thrasher signed an $83.7 billion memorandum of understanding with a Chinese energy company that wants to take advantage of West Virginia’s vast supplies of Marcellus and Utica shale gas. Under the 20-year development deal, the Chinese would invest in infrastructure and plants to convert the byproducts of natural gas production for the production of petrochemicals....

....But, unlike the exploitation of West Virginia’s coal reserves over the past 150 years, the projects proposed under the China deal are intended to provide local infrastructure and create a local petrochemical industry.



“It is not a transfer of the resource,” Thrasher said, but “bricks and mortar” facilities to turn gas liquids into chemicals and other products.

So is this a good thing? It will create thousands of good jobs, help thousands of people, in and around WV. It will also supply our country with a cheap supply of much needed petrol-chemical products.

But can we trust the Chinese? Or will they ship all the products to China? Is it wise to give the Chinese have this much control over such a strategic industry?

 

[Nitt1300]

Screw them- let them spend their money, then nationalize it when there is a strategic need. It's what they would do.

 

[NittPicker]

But can we trust the Chinese? Or will they ship all the products to China? Is it wise to give the Chinese have this much control over such a strategic industry?

Trust the Chinese?? No way. They don't invest in the US because they want to help us. If it didn't benefit them they wouldn't do it.

 

[LionDeNittany]

Trust the Chinese?? No way. They don't invest in the US because they want to help us. If it didn't benefit them they wouldn't do it.

No-one invests in anything because they want to help.

Invest and Help are two different things.

LdN

 

[Cletus11]

China is buying the world resources. In 25 years they will dominate the world. And if you like a Communist country owning everything, then you will be happy.

 

[Obliviax]

Trust the Chinese?? No way. They don't invest in the US because they want to help us. If it didn't benefit them they wouldn't do it.

well, the nation pretty much abandoned WVa for renewable energies. I am not saying that is good or bad, but if you live in WVa the motivation means little to the fact that your family is struggling. The Chinese see an opportunity to invest in natgas. apparently, they feel the US has under invested. Someone will be right, and someone will be wrong.

 

[BlackNovember]

China is buying the world resources. In 25 years they will dominate the world. And if you like a Communist country owning everything, then you will be happy.

25 years ago everyone thought Japan would own everything by now. Times change, ebb & flow.

 

[PrtLng Lion]

I fear that China is the biggest threat to the US, not North Korea, Russia, Iran, etc. Sure, we both are dependent on each other for trade, but a big portion of the US Debt is owned by China ($1.2 tril). What happens when they (one day) want to collect? They've been building up their military machine for quite some time now.

 

[Nitt1300]

China is buying the world resources. In 25 years they will dominate the world. And if you like a Communist country owning everything, then you will be happy.

The Chinese are a lot of things, communist isn't one of them, in spite of what they say. If they win in the end it will be because they are long term strategic thinkers while we are day traders.

 

[john4psu]

I figured it out. Those Chinese know drilling in West Virginia through the earth and you come up in China.

 

[Obliviax]

I fear that China is the biggest threat to the US, not North Korea, Russia, Iran, etc. Sure, we both are dependent on each other for trade, but a big portion of the US Debt is owned by China ($1.2 tril). What happens when they (one day) want to collect? They've been building up their military machine for quite some time now.

Are you familiar with "One Belt One Road?" I met a guy from McKinsey who is at the top of that project.

Kevin Sneader: At one level, One Belt, One Road has the potential to be perhaps the world’s largest platform for regional collaboration. What does that actually mean? There are two parts to this, the belt and the road, and it’s a little confusing. The belt is the physical road, which takes one from here all the way through Europe to somewhere up north in Scandinavia. That is the physical road. What they call the road is actually the maritime Silk Road, in other words, shipping lanes, essentially from here to Venice. Therefore it’s very ambitious—potentially ambitious—covering about 65 percent of the world’s population, about one-third of the world’s GDP, and about a quarter of all the goods and services the world moves. That is what’s at the core of this—at least a potential trading route. The belt, the physical road, and the maritime Silk Road would re-create the shipping routes that made China one of the world’s foremost powers many, many years ago.
​

China's advantage is not unlike other autocratic governments: it is streamlined and has the advantage of making strategic decisions quickly and decisively. The downside is they are much more volutile to political upheavals. China's had a great run with some good leaders. Time will tell if that continues.

 

[Woodpecker]

Well, the Chinese have always shown a strong committment to keeping the environment clean ... oh wait ...

 

[Cletus11]

25 years ago everyone thought Japan would own everything by now. Times change, ebb & flow.

not even close. Japan was just becoming a manufacturing power. China is literally buying the world's resources, Japan never did that. CHina owns oil and gas fields, mining rights all over the world. They are cornering the market. They already have the lead in manufacturing, now they are moving back the food chain to have the resources instead of having to buy them. It is pretty scary and if you think CHina is anything like Japan, you are sorely mistaken.

 

[Obliviax]

not even close. Japan was just becoming a manufacturing power. China is literally buying the world's resources, Japan never did that. CHina owns oil and gas fields, mining rights all over the world. They are cornering the market. They already have the lead in manufacturing, now they are moving back the food chain to have the resources instead of having to buy them. It is pretty scary and if you think CHina is anything like Japan, you are sorely mistaken.

seems like a clear bet against the advancement or renewable energies. If the worldwide (western) investment in wind and solar doesn't yield results, they are perfectly positioned.

 

[Cletus11]

seems like a clear bet against the advancement or renewable energies. If the worldwide (western) investment in wind and solar doesn't yield results, they are perfectly positioned.

Not correct. Oil and gas is the building blocks of plastic and many chemicals and other industrial things, it is not just for cars and power. And we will always need some from of O&G to make power for the next 50 years. And China is the world leader in solar, they make most of the world's solar panels if you want to talk renewables. And mining rights means they own the world's gold, silver, potassium, iron, etc...again, the building blocks for steel, and just about everything you use on a daily basis.

 

[Cletus11]

and yes, it will create local jobs. But where do you think all the profits are going to go from this business endevour...back to China. So they will be taking money out of the USA economy. And do you really think the Chinese are going to care about American workers. They will be as low of wages and hire/fire whatever they want as US workers are just numbers on a spreadsheet to them.

 

[91Joe95]

A Chinese firm is going to invest $87 billion over the next twenty years in West Virginia's oil, gas, and petrochemical industries. Thats a HUGE amount of money. So is this a good thing? It will create thousands of good jobs, help thousands of people, in and around WV. It will also supply our country with a cheap supply of needed petrol-chemical products.

In November, Thrasher signed an $83.7 billion memorandum of understanding with a Chinese energy company that wants to take advantage of West Virginia’s vast supplies of Marcellus and Utica shale gas. Under the 20-year development deal, the Chinese would invest in infrastructure and plants to convert the byproducts of natural gas production for the production of petrochemicals....

....But, unlike the exploitation of West Virginia’s coal reserves over the past 150 years, the projects proposed under the China deal are intended to provide local infrastructure and create a local petrochemical industry.



“It is not a transfer of the resource,” Thrasher said, but “bricks and mortar” facilities to turn gas liquids into chemicals and other products.

So is this a good thing? It will create thousands of good jobs, help thousands of people, in and around WV. It will also supply our country with a cheap supply of much needed petrol-chemical products.

But can we trust the Chinese? Or will they ship all the products to China? Is it wise to give the Chinese have this much control over such a strategic industry?

Fracking.

 

[Obliviax]

Not correct. Oil and gas is the building blocks of plastic and many chemicals and other industrial things, it is not just for cars and power. And we will always need some from of O&G to make power for the next 50 years. And China is the world leader in solar, they make most of the world's solar panels if you want to talk renewables. And mining rights means they own the world's gold, silver, potassium, iron, etc...again, the building blocks for steel, and just about everything you use on a daily basis.

we can agree to disagree. china, apparently, thinks more highly of natgas then others so they are buying it up. it is a big bet that the cost of renewables (all costs, not just cold hard cash) is being under estimated.

 

[LionDeNittany]

and yes, it will create local jobs. But where do you think all the profits are going to go from this business endevour...back to China. So they will be taking money out of the USA economy. And do you really think the Chinese are going to care about American workers. They will be as low of wages and hire/fire whatever they want as US workers are just numbers on a spreadsheet to them.

Except they are beholden to US rules. And factually, by being Chinese they will have to be even better because they are an easy lawsuit target.

LdN

 

[KnightSlayer]

not even close. Japan was just becoming a manufacturing power. China is literally buying the world's resources, Japan never did that. CHina owns oil and gas fields, mining rights all over the world. They are cornering the market. They already have the lead in manufacturing, now they are moving back the food chain to have the resources instead of having to buy them. It is pretty scary and if you think CHina is anything like Japan, you are sorely mistaken.

Scary? What exactly are you afraid they are going to do?

 

[KnightSlayer]

and yes, it will create local jobs. But where do you think all the profits are going to go from this business endevour...back to China. So they will be taking money out of the USA economy. And do you really think the Chinese are going to care about American workers. They will be as low of wages and hire/fire whatever they want as US workers are just numbers on a spreadsheet to them.

How is that different from how US corporations treat their employees?

 

[demlion]

So....as they drill these giant fields of oil and gas they will need oilfield hands---got them from Louisiana and Texas so far. Not WV. Then they will need huge workforces of people to build these petrochemical plants all over the state...no, they will be getting them from TX, LA, OH, and PA. Not WV. No guarantee they will not pipe the gas closer to the existing petro chemical plants or to the markets for the products....also out of WV.

After living here for 30 years, the only thing that seems certain is the jobs and the profits will go elsewhere and the environmental degradation will stay here. Mark it down.

 

[GOD the almighty Creator]

A Chinese firm is going to invest $87 billion over the next twenty years in West Virginia's oil, gas, and petrochemical industries. Thats a HUGE amount of money. So is this a good thing? It will create thousands of good jobs, help thousands of people, in and around WV. It will also supply our country with a cheap supply of needed petrol-chemical products.

In November, Thrasher signed an $83.7 billion memorandum of understanding with a Chinese energy company that wants to take advantage of West Virginia’s vast supplies of Marcellus and Utica shale gas. Under the 20-year development deal, the Chinese would invest in infrastructure and plants to convert the byproducts of natural gas production for the production of petrochemicals....

....But, unlike the exploitation of West Virginia’s coal reserves over the past 150 years, the projects proposed under the China deal are intended to provide local infrastructure and create a local petrochemical industry.



“It is not a transfer of the resource,” Thrasher said, but “bricks and mortar” facilities to turn gas liquids into chemicals and other products.

So is this a good thing? It will create thousands of good jobs, help thousands of people, in and around WV. It will also supply our country with a cheap supply of much needed petrol-chemical products.

But can we trust the Chinese? Or will they ship all the products to China? Is it wise to give the Chinese have this much control over such a strategic industry?

Listen to what I'm about to share with you:

Countries don't invade other countries anymore; Countries "buy" other Countries, now.

No offense, but, you should know this by now. What exactly do you think Corporations are doing with investor money?

 

[Cletus11]

You guys are pretty naive if you think China buying up USA natural resources is a good thing. And if you compare working for a Chinese company to working for an American company and somehow think there isn't much difference, again, you don't know business very well.

 

[sluggo72]

So....as they drill these giant fields of oil and gas they will need oilfield hands---got them from Louisiana and Texas so far. Not WV. Then they will need huge workforces of people to build these petrochemical plants all over the state...no, they will be getting them from TX, LA, OH, and PA. Not WV. No guarantee they will not pipe the gas closer to the existing petro chemical plants or to the markets for the products....also out of WV.

After living here for 30 years, the only thing that seems certain is the jobs and the profits will go elsewhere and the environmental degradation will stay here. Mark it down.

So....as they drill these giant fields of oil and gas they will need oilfield hands---got them from Louisiana and Texas so far. Not WV. Then they will need huge workforces of people to build these petrochemical plants all over the state...no, they will be getting them from TX, LA, OH, and PA. Not WV. No guarantee they will not pipe the gas closer to the existing petro chemical plants or to the markets for the products....also out of WV.

After living here for 30 years, the only thing that seems certain is the jobs and the profits will go elsewhere and the environmental degradation will stay here. Mark it down.

maybe the Chinese will hire Don? His girlfriend should have connections

https://www.cnbc.com/video/2018/01/19/former-massey-energy-ceo-from-convict-to-candidate.html

 

[4rosco]

They will be as low of wages and hire/fire whatever they want as US workers are just numbers on a spreadsheet to them.

Isn't that the same as any other company?

 

[PSU20]

25 years ago everyone thought Japan would own everything by now. Times change, ebb & flow.

Right on. The Japanese bought the Empire State Building, and a number of other NYC properties, along with Pebble Beach Golf Course. They "were everywhere." back around 1988. Their GDP is still well below the US because of their strict immigration laws they have virtually no population growth; thus, no GDP Growth.

 

[Art]

Isn't that the same as any other company?

Agreed. The choice is that or unemployment and I don't see any US companies lining up to buy these assets.

That being said, no details of the MOU have been released. It will be interesting to see how muck of this $87bn comes on line.

 

[GOD the almighty Creator]

AFter living here for 30 years, the only thing that seems certain is the jobs and the profits will go elsewhere and the environmental degradation will stay here. Mark it down.

You are now in Trademark infringement. You being a lawyer should know this.

 

[Cletus11]

Isn't that the same as any other company?

NO, in most cases, if you have foreign ownership, they are much more prone to hire/fire on a more frequent basis. Plus, they will look to have as much back office and management in the native country (the higher paying jobs). There are always exceptions to the rule, but in general, that is the case. And Chinese are known to be worse than let's say a European owned company.

 

[nittanyfan333]

From what I have been told and have read, China's GDP is slowing down quickly, and their credit is growing VERY rapidly. I think they're something like 6.5% GDP growth reported, some say sub-4% actual (steady decline since 2010) and their current credit is 240-250%ish of their GDP and in a steady incline and expected to top 300% in the next 2 years. And we all know how they manipulate the markets, so I wouldn't be surprised if it's worse than that. I guess I'm not too worried about China right now. If their credit and GDP were rising together, I'd be terrified. They're like a young kid who opens a credit card and maxes it out while working part time at WackArnolds, and instead of paying off their credit card, they open another one, and another one, and another one all while getting hours taken from them at work.

 

[Sullivan]

So....as they drill these giant fields of oil and gas they will need oilfield hands---got them from Louisiana and Texas so far. Not WV. Then they will need huge workforces of people to build these petrochemical plants all over the state...no, they will be getting them from TX, LA, OH, and PA. Not WV. No guarantee they will not pipe the gas closer to the existing petro chemical plants or to the markets for the products....also out of WV.

After living here for 30 years, the only thing that seems certain is the jobs and the profits will go elsewhere and the environmental degradation will stay here. Mark it down.

If you don't believe people are being hired from WV, then you aren't paying attention.

 

[bdgan]

China is buying the world resources. In 25 years they will dominate the world. And if you like a Communist country owning everything, then you will be happy.

In the 80s people were concerned about Arabs buying a lot of things in this country.

 

[Limestone_Lion]

I was hired as a Wellsite Geologist two weeks before I graduated from PSU. Spent quite a bit time in WV/VA. Every single well that was drilled was drilled by workers from the same state. The energy companies were from VA/PA/TX, but the workers were local. Most of the wells were for Consol, but there were some others. I met a guy from WV on a well site near Mount Storm. He dropped out of school before he finished the 7th grade. His salary dwarfed mine. He worked as a roughneck for approx. 15 years and was raking in around 150-200k at the time. He worked every single day of the year. His family was/is set for life because of this. One of the nicest people I ever encountered on a rig

 

[Obliviax]

Right on. The Japanese bought the Empire State Building, and a number of other NYC properties, along with Pebble Beach Golf Course. They "were everywhere." back around 1988. Their GDP is still well below the US because of their strict immigration laws they have virtually no population growth; thus, no GDP Growth.

There are other issues with Japan, like having next to no natural resources on that island. But you are correct, they haven't been reproducing and people are immigrating. Russia is in a similar boat (hence having a national holiday to procreate along with a $10,000 bonus if you get pregnant).

 

[rumble_lion]

I fear that China is the biggest threat to the US, not North Korea, Russia, Iran, etc. Sure, we both are dependent on each other for trade, but a big portion of the US Debt is owned by China ($1.2 tril). What happens when they (one day) want to collect? They've been building up their military machine for quite some time now.

What happens when they (one day) want to collect?

Then we pay them. When has the US not paid off treasuries?

China uses some of the dollars they get from our trade imbalance with them to purchase treasuries. This has the effect of strengthening the dollar which makes their goods look cheaper to us and our goods look more expensive to them. They consider this to be desirable outcome.

 

[rumble_lion]

Right on. The Japanese bought the Empire State Building, and a number of other NYC properties, along with Pebble Beach Golf Course. They "were everywhere." back around 1988. Their GDP is still well below the US because of their strict immigration laws they have virtually no population growth; thus, no GDP Growth.

Well GDP growth isn't everything.

Speculating in real estate isn't easy for people that live there.

 

[sluggo72]

I was hired as a Wellsite Geologist two weeks before I graduated from PSU. Spent quite a bit time in WV/VA. Every single well that was drilled was drilled by workers from the same state. The energy companies were from VA/PA/TX, but the workers were local. Most of the wells were for Consol, but there were some others. I met a guy from WV on a well site near Mount Storm. He dropped out of school before he finished the 7th grade. His salary dwarfed mine. He worked as a roughneck for approx. 15 years and was raking in around 150-200k at the time. He worked every single day of the year. His family was/is set for life because of this. One of the nicest people I ever encountered on a rig

Good hear!! that said I've been scuba diving in Mt Storm!!

 

[rumble_lion]

From what I have been told and have read, China's GDP is slowing down quickly, and their credit is growing VERY rapidly. I think they're something like 6.5% GDP growth reported, some say sub-4% actual (steady decline since 2010) and their current credit is 240-250%ish of their GDP and in a steady incline and expected to top 300% in the next 2 years. And we all know how they manipulate the markets, so I wouldn't be surprised if it's worse than that. I guess I'm not too worried about China right now. If their credit and GDP were rising together, I'd be terrified. They're like a young kid who opens a credit card and maxes it out while working part time at WackArnolds, and instead of paying off their credit card, they open another one, and another one, and another one all while getting hours taken from them at work.

They're like a young kid who opens a credit card and maxes it out while working part time at WackArnolds, and instead of paying off their credit card, they open another one, and another one, and another one all while getting hours taken from them at work

Well no it's not like that at all. Unlike the kid with the credit card China is monetarily sovereign.

 

[sluggo72]

What happens when they (one day) want to collect?

Then we pay them. When has the US not paid off treasuries?

China uses some of the dollars they get from our trade imbalance with them to purchase treasuries. This has the effect of strengthening the dollar which makes their goods look cheaper to us and our goods look more expensive to them. They consider this to be desirable outcome.

people forget the only time they can collect is on maturity day, otherwise if they want their money, they'll have to sell the bond to someone else, and collect from them. Besides if they want the money on maturity date, we'll give it to them,and just issue new bonds to pay them.