Penn State press release on the benefits of membership in the Committee on Institutional Cooperation (CIC), which is the academic enterprise of the Big Ten.
collaborative benefits, efficiencies
collaborative benefits, efficiencies
OT: CIC justification (B1G)
- Thread starter Evan Ceg
- Start date
Pfffffftttt!!!!
The total of quantifiable benefits realized by all CIC members (spread across 15 schools) doesn't equate to one full share of conference athletic revenue sharing. And Johns Hopkins, the university with the highest funded research activity by a considerable margin, passed on membership.
The total of quantifiable benefits realized by all CIC members (spread across 15 schools) doesn't equate to one full share of conference athletic revenue sharing. And Johns Hopkins, the university with the highest funded research activity by a considerable margin, passed on membership.
I like how CIC starts things off by summing up all the billions research dollars of the Big Ten schools - as if the CIC is the cause of that level of research. Then they don't back it up, at all, and when you dig for actual benefits you find ridiculously small and questionable statements like:
"For instance, the CIC contract with the National Car Rental and Enterprise Rent-a-Car saved Penn State in excess of $119,000 in fiscal year 2013-2014."
I mean - nice to have, but it is not clear what this is relative to, or whether there would have been other non-CIC arrangements with rental car cos. that resulted in the same savings.
"For instance, the CIC contract with the National Car Rental and Enterprise Rent-a-Car saved Penn State in excess of $119,000 in fiscal year 2013-2014."
I mean - nice to have, but it is not clear what this is relative to, or whether there would have been other non-CIC arrangements with rental car cos. that resulted in the same savings.
Whether or not people apologize for the Big Ten, whether or not people like the CIC, Penn State is still not leaving the conference. Period.
Oh, I agree (although never say never). But, doesn't mean I have to like it, or think it's the right fit.
Oh, I agree (although never say never). But, doesn't mean I have to like it, or think it's the right fit.
The vast majority of people who say the fit isn't right focus on sports, particularly football, and the refs screwing PSU and the B1G not sticking up for PSU in 2011. I agree that those are serious issues, but that doesn't mean that PSU is a better fit elsewhere. There was national "outrage" against PSU in 2011 and 2012, and we can't say that the ACC would have treated PSU any better. We also can't say that the refs would be any better in the ACC. There are a lot of bad refs across college football.
PSU alums who live on the east coast complained about the geographical misfit with the B1G. Now ru and md are in the B1G, so PSU plays two road games closer to home. No, I don't buy the notion that the B1G added ru and md to benefit PSU, but the fact remains that PSU is not on the proverbial island now.
The CIC aside, looking at academics, research, and structure, PSU is a good fit for the B1G. Like PSU, many B1G schools are their respective state's flagship school, many are land-grant colleges, and many have very strong research programs. From that standpoint, I would argue that PSU is a better fit in the B1G than the ACC.
Regardless, PSU won't leave the B1G because of the money.
The vast majority of people who say the fit isn't right focus on sports,.......[/B]
True, and sports is the only real reason we're in the conference. The talk of academics, etc. is just that. With respect to 2011/2012, despite the supposed outrage, the egregious piling on by the conference and its insistence on keeping the bowl revenue it stole from Penn State, alone is reason enough to leave. You may speculate that the ACC would have done the same, but you don't know that. I can only go by what I see, and I know what the Big Ten did and has done over the years. They were complicit along with the NCAA in orchestrating much of the Freeh review. Add that to its long history of treating Penn State as nothing more than an adjunct member, and what more do you need? Finally, there should come a time when there are more important things than money (if indeed there really would be a disparity in the long term). But again, you are correct. Our "leaders" will never go down that path. We know all too well what they are about.
True, and sports is the only real reason we're in the conference. The talk of academics, etc. is just that. With respect to 2011/2012, despite the supposed outrage, the egregious piling on by the conference and its insistence on keeping the bowl revenue it stole from Penn State, alone is reason enough to leave. You may speculate that the ACC would have done the same, but you don't know that. I can only go by what I see, and I know what the Big Ten did and has done over the years. They were complicit along with the NCAA in orchestrating much of the Freeh review. Add that to its long history of treating Penn State as nothing more than an adjunct member, and what more do you need? Finally, there should come a time when there are more important things than money (if indeed there really would be a disparity in the long term). But again, you are correct. Our "leaders" will never go down that path. We know all too well what they are about.
Meanwhile, the CIC just announced another 8.1 million dollar grant this week from the Mellon Foundation for what amounts to an Academic Nike Camp for CIC member Universities and ACM (Associated Colleges of the Midwest) Universities. Some of you knuckleheads just don't get it.
You want the ACC and its two bit academic consortium run solely by a part time employee? Great. Talk about moving from the Academic Penthouse to the Academic basement.
As to sports, Pitt alone hates us more than all the Big Ten Schools combined. Heck, it was a Pitt Grad that did more unneeded damage to our University by her grandstanding Press Conference than all the "crooked" Big Ten Refs that ever lived. And Corbett is a Pittsburgh guy that hates our guts. If you don't think Pitt would have lobbied heavily to kick us out of the ACC you are crazy.
I don't get why you would assume that Penn State would be treated any better by the ACC than they are by the Big Ten. Ask Maryland how they felt about the ACC when they were still there. You'll hear a lot of complaining about how all of the decisions in that league are made with the Carolina schools in mind first, and everyone else second.
Money in sports is the only reason PSU is in the B1G.
I didn't say academics is the reason. All I said is that PSU is a better fit in the B1G than the ACC when you look at the size of the school, the academics, and the research program. Athletics money aside, my point is that Penn State not out of place in the B1G.
Of course PSU's "leaders" will not leave the B1G. The money is too good. How often do schools leave the B1G? Looking at all the conference shake-ups the past few years, one usually does not see a school leaving the B1G, ACC, or SEC.
If you don't think Pitt would have lobbied heavily to kick us out of the ACC you are crazy.
Pitt wasn't even a full member of the ACC at that time, but don't let that get in the way of your speculative spin.
Meanwhile, the CIC just announced another 8.1 million dollar grant this week from the Mellon Foundation for what amounts to an Academic Nike Camp for CIC member Universities and ACM (Associated Colleges of the Midwest) Universities. Some of you knuckleheads just don't get it.
And I'm sure the knucleheads in The Research Triangle, as well as some of the other universities such as UVA and Pitt, are devastated by such a mammoth donation (pales in comparison to the money the NCAA and Big Ten conspired to steal from Penn State) and now know that the likes of Duke University will no longer have the ability to compete for research funds from similar foundations. Clearly inferior schools now.
This post was edited on 4/11 2:20 PM by nits74
Pitt wasn't even a full member of the ACC at that time, but don't let that get in the way of your speculative spin.
Meanwhile, the CIC just announced another 8.1 million dollar grant this week from the Mellon Foundation for what amounts to an Academic Nike Camp for CIC member Universities and ACM (Associated Colleges of the Midwest) Universities. Some of you knuckleheads just don't get it.
And I'm sure the knucleheads in The Research Triangle, as well as some of the other universities such as UVA and Pitt, are devastated by such a mammoth donation (pales in comparison to the money the NCAA and Big Ten conspired to steal from Penn State) and now know that the likes of Duke University will no longer have the ability to compete for research funds from similar foundations. Clearly inferior schools now.
This post was edited on 4/11 2:20 PM by nits74
HAAAA!!!! They didn't have to be. They had Pitt Grad Linda Kelly available to do all their dirty work for them. Thanks to her needless grandstanding, orchestrated by Pittsburgh area boy Tommy Corbett, they almost got us kicked out of the NCAA.
I'm not a fan of either, nor do I even remotely like Pitt athletics. And further, I agree that Kelly's grandstanding was well orchestrated. But to imply the reason was that she and Corbett have a connection with the city of Pittsburgh is simplistic at best. I've followed your posts, which as you know I generally like, and I know that you are well aware of that. It goes much deeper.
You mean in the "Research Triangle" where students are allowed to take fake classes? Right.
Your response alone shows you can't grasp the academic value in the CIC. It's not necessarily the amount of the 8.1 million dollar grant I was trying to illustrate (although that, along with all the other grants and research collaboration is important). It is what that grant gets you. A collaboration of the brightest and best from 15 of the largest Research Universities in the World with the brightest and best of 14 Private Liberal Arts Universities with academic advantages on both sides.
Penn State will have an additional proven applicant pool from among the 14 ACM Universities to aid Graduate Professors during summer internships. In addition, Penn State and other CIC Universities who have students graduating with terminal Masters or Doctorial degrees will be offered Faculty Fellowships in tenure track positions at ACM Universities.
This is just one illustration of how the CIC aids Penn State's academic profile. I mentioned it because it was just announced this week. There are many others. Just ask former ACC member Maryland. Their faculty is elated with the change. And Rutgers claims that CIC Membership has increased the academic profile of their University tremendously. Out of State Applications are up 15 percent and they have been able to become more selective.
Maybe you should try to contact one of this year's CIC Academic Leadership Fellows from Penn State. They were given the chance to spend three days apiece at Northwestern, Minnesota, and Ohio State to network with the brightest and the best from the other 14 CIC Universities. Tell them Penn State should leave the CIC.
At this point, the way we are treated, only a stupid idiotic prideless fool
would want us to stay. The same kind of guy who keeps asking the pretty girl to the prom, who keeps rejecting him. The same guy who keeps applying to Harvard, but keeps getting rejected. The same guy who is told he isn't good enough to be buried in the county mausoleum, but keeps asking permission.
In short, if PSU had any pride at all (which we do not anymore, thanks to our cancerous BOT), we would give them the finger and walk into the sunset. Instead, we continue to give them all blowjobs and act as their toilet paper, asking for their forgiveness for not doing it properly.
It's pathetic. Thanks, Karen C.
would want us to stay. The same kind of guy who keeps asking the pretty girl to the prom, who keeps rejecting him. The same guy who keeps applying to Harvard, but keeps getting rejected. The same guy who is told he isn't good enough to be buried in the county mausoleum, but keeps asking permission.
In short, if PSU had any pride at all (which we do not anymore, thanks to our cancerous BOT), we would give them the finger and walk into the sunset. Instead, we continue to give them all blowjobs and act as their toilet paper, asking for their forgiveness for not doing it properly.
It's pathetic. Thanks, Karen C.
All well and good. Point is, the primary reasons Penn State is in The Big Ten are athletics and money. Not academics. Hypothetically, if another conference came calling that would offer a bigger bottom line, you can bet we'd be gone, CIC be damned. Another thing I don't "grasp" is the willingness of some to accept the fact that this conference stole money from Penn State without due process, and was apparently complicit in directing the flawed Freeh investigation. Couple that with past transgressions and you have what is very much akin to abused spouse syndrome. And it's not as though we'd crumble academically if we were to leave.
No real sense continuing with this. As 9fold stated, we're not leaving. As I said to him, not all of us have to like it. So those of us that can't "grasp" all of the benefits will just have to be content with watching our weak-willed, money squandering University continue to grovel to the mighty Big Ten. "Thank you sir, may I have another."
No real sense continuing with this. As 9fold stated, we're not leaving. As I said to him, not all of us have to like it. So those of us that can't "grasp" all of the benefits will just have to be content with watching our weak-willed, money squandering University continue to grovel to the mighty Big Ten. "Thank you sir, may I have another."
Just read the annual report that CIC released. They have annual revenue of about 5 million dollars and around half is spent on administration and management. Just because they announce every grant that any Big Ten school receives does not mean that the CIC was the reason. And, in fact, it is ridiculous to assume that anybody gets a research dollar just because they are in the CIC. It literally makes no sense at all.
It's not so "ridiculous" if you realize the CIC brings the Principal Investigators together from the different Universities to write their funded research proposals. The money then goes to the collaborating Universities that win the grants. Not the CIC.
So the CIC schedules meetings between PI's at Big Ten schools to write proposals? Sounds great. I'm sure there are no researchers who collaborate across schools outside of the CIC.
Of course there are. But no other athletic Conference we could possibly be a member of, including the Ivy League, has such a closely connected collaboration of Research Universities as the Big Ten/CIC.
If you are a Doctorial Student at Penn State, and you want to broaden your work with a course that Penn State doesn't offer, you can work with a Professor at Michigan, Northwestern, Wisconsin or any other Big Ten/CIC University for up to a year through the Traveling Scholars Program and just pay your Penn State Tuition.
Through Course Share, Penn State students have access to far more language courses than they would ever have if we weren't in the CIC.
Through the Summer Research Opportunities Program, Penn State Undergraduates can work with Professors on research projects at other CIC Universities with all expenses paid, including housing and stipends. In addition, Penn State Professors can select from a diverse pool of applicants to aid them in research during the Summer semester.
You kid about "meetings between PI's at Big Ten schools". Well, you are right on. Our brightest and best from Penn State get to spend three days apiece at three separate CIC campuses every year networking with the brightest and best from other CIC Universities.
This year, our Academic Leadership Fellows got to spend three days at the University of Minnesota, three days at Northwestern, and three days at Ohio State. When our turn comes in the rotation, we get to show off Penn State to some of the best academics in the Country.
Perhaps someone from U of Illinois or U of Chicago will be working on a meteorology project and through a tour of our facilities, realizes we have assets they don't. They may decide to include one of our Professors in the preparation of their Research Proposal. Who knows? But that's one of the things additional campus exposure gets you on both ends. More potential assets and a larger potential pool of experts..
There are roughly 100 CIC peer groups that meet regularly and collaborate with each other on common issues. For example, Neil Sharkey, the Vice President for Research at Penn State is in a CIC Peer group with the Senior Research Officers of the other CIC Universities.
I could go on and on, but in short, sure we collaborate with Universities outside the CIC. But the CIC gives us an ADDITIONAL academic asset not available to most other Universities.
We are, after all, a University. Not a semi-professional sports franchise. The availability of the CIC makes the Big Ten the most well rounded Athletic Conference in the land. The CIC increases the potential academic talent pool and research assets available to Penn State tremendously. Why would you want to take that additional academic asset away from the REAL mission of the University for the sake of a football team? If not for the academic mission, there would BE no Penn State Nittany Lion football team.
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