OT: Clint Hurdle

[michnittlion]

Crazy brawl in Reds @ Pirates tonight.

5 years of the Pirates leading MLB in hits batsman. I enjoyed seeing the Reds not put up with Hurdle's crap tonight, I enjoyed Amir Garrett not putting up with the Pirates trash-talking nonsense, and I enjoyed the already-ejected David Bell coming back out on the field to try to maim Hurdle.

NOBODY in MLB likes Hurdle. I honestly don't know how Pirates fans can defend him.

 

[Mixolydian]

Crazy brawl in Reds @ Pirates tonight.

5 years of the Pirates leading MLB in hits batsman. I enjoyed seeing the Reds not put up with Hurdle's crap tonight, I enjoyed Amir Garrett not putting up with the Pirates trash-talking nonsense, and I enjoyed the already-ejected David Bell coming back out on the field to try to maim Hurdle.

NOBODY in MLB likes Hurdle. I honestly don't know how Pirates fans can defend him.

I enjoy you being right about absolutely nothing. Ever. It’s remarkable. What a colossal douche.

 

[Connorpozlee]

As a Reds fan, I enjoyed the hell out of the brawl. Good to see some fire from that team for a change. I hate hearing all the sanctimonious “there’s no place in baseball for that...” nonsense by the announcers. Sometimes the best thing a team can do is to empty the benches. I applaud Garrett for charging the Pirates bench. Enough of the posing like you want to fight somebody. Go and actually do it. If the umpires didn’t want this to happen they could have stopped it when the pitch was thrown over Dietrich’s head.
All that said, I get the dislike for Dietrich. He is one cocky douche. Not sure what problem you would have with Votto though.

 

[Connorpozlee]

He and Puig are birds of a feather.


BTW: Isn't there supposed to be some "no arguing ball/strike calls" rule..... not to mention "no tossing equipment"?

The Umps lost control of that game in the 8th, when in back to back at bats the Reds "Cory-Giger-Frosted-Tip Twins" …. Suarez and Puig.... shoulda' been tossed.

Suarez danced around like a cow giving birth over a called strike (that WAS a strike)…. and the Ump just stood there while he had his "14 Year Old Girl on Her Period" rant.
Then, next at bat, Puig (which is apparently the Cuban term for mega-douche), on ANOTHER strike call - on a pitch actually, you know, IN the strike zone - not only pissed and moaned like a little girl, but them slammed his helmet to the ground. The Ump - again - just watched as pissy-boy continued his rant, picked his helmet back up, and hit a weak grounder to first.

If the Ump had tossed them both - as he is supposed to - Pissy Bot Puig woulda' been in the showers... instead of on the field where Votto could egg him on, and provide all the more fuel to the fire.


And, of course, Puig then had to do his 5 minutes after the fact "I ain't done yet" idiocy as the "brawl" was winding down.... as he always does.
Truly, as pathetic as the Buccos play has been on-the-field, the Reds are in a league of their own for utter douchebaggery.


I wonder if the Indians might ask for a do-over wrt taking that pussy Puig off of the Reds hands.

Not sure who the “he” in “he and Puig” is referring to. If it’s Votto you’re way off base there.
The umps lost control of the game in the 7th when a pitch goes intentionally over Dietrich’s head and they waited until after the inning to issue warnings.
All that said, I have no problem with emptying the benches. It’s good for the team.

 

[Connorpozlee]

What does any of that have to do with the Umps ignoring the Cory-Giger-Frosted-Tip Twins bullshit.... which is clearly by rule supposed to get them tossed? (And their idiocy tonight was an EXTREME, poster-child example of what is supposed to result in an ejection)
And woulda' put the Cuban Douchebag where he belongs - and removed his "gas can" from the fire BEFORE it all blew up.

What do your feelings wrt whether or not a "good brawl now and then is a good thing" have to do with any of that? (rhetorical question, of course)

What does it have to do with it? I don’t know. I wasn’t commenting on that specific part of your post. I was responding to the part where you talked about when the umps lost control of the game.
I won’t answer you second paragraph since you were nice enough to let me know it’s rhetorical. Thanks for your courtesy Norm.

Edit:
I’m just watching the replay of the game now. Suarez was having a discussion with the ump. That sort of thing happens several times a game. Maybe the Pirates are the one team team in the league that is full of old school guys, but I never really see them play. I would agree with you completely that Puig should have been tossed. I’m not even sure how the home plate ump could justify not tossing him.

 

[Nittany Ziggy]

He and Puig are birds of a feather.
Votto is just more of a sneaky c^cks^cker…. like Neidermeyer from Animal House

LOL! Put Niedermeyer on it, he’s a sneaky little shit just like you!

 

[TheGLOV]

As a Reds fan, I enjoyed the hell out of the brawl. Good to see some fire from that team for a change. I hate hearing all the sanctimonious “there’s no place in baseball for that...” nonsense by the announcers. Sometimes the best thing a team can do is to empty the benches. I applaud Garrett for charging the Pirates bench. Enough of the posing like you want to fight somebody. Go and actually do it. If the umpires didn’t want this to happen they could have stopped it when the pitch was thrown over Dietrich’s head.
All that said, I get the dislike for Dietrich. He is one cocky douche. Not sure what problem you would have with Votto though.

I was at THE game back in the day where Pedro Bourbon i.e. Dracula bit a Pirate player in a game. Mr. Hall from the Reds later shook my hand as he was exiting the field.

Pirates were like 10 games back and it was the 2nd game of a double header. That fight propelled the Buccos to the division title that year.

 

[TheGLOV]

Crazy brawl in Reds @ Pirates tonight.

5 years of the Pirates leading MLB in hits batsman. I enjoyed seeing the Reds not put up with Hurdle's crap tonight, I enjoyed Amir Garrett not putting up with the Pirates trash-talking nonsense, and I enjoyed the already-ejected David Bell coming back out on the field to try to maim Hurdle.

NOBODY in MLB likes Hurdle. I honestly don't know how Pirates fans can defend him.

Tommy Lasorda was the biggest prick in baseball for having his pitchers THROW at players bar none: and he denied it ever time he was asked!!

 

[Mixolydian]

What does it have to do with it? I don’t know. I wasn’t commenting on that specific part of your post. I was responding to the part where you talked about when the umps lost control of the game.
I won’t answer you second paragraph since you were nice enough to let me know it’s rhetorical. Thanks for your courtesy Norm.

Edit:
I’m just watching the replay of the game now. Suarez was having a discussion with the ump. That sort of thing happens several times a game. Maybe the Pirates are the one team team in the league that is full of old school guys, but I never really see them play. I would agree with you completely that Puig should have been tossed. I’m not even sure how the home plate ump could justify not tossing him.

Kela started it (most likely on his own given his reputation) and should have been tossed. It was over when Hughes hit Marte in the ass. If Garrett doesn’t give up a 3 run bomb and instead gets Osuna out, he goes back to the dugout and the whole melee never happens. I have never seen a guy sprint on his own to the other team’s dugout. He must be really courageous (stupid). And David Bell is a whiny little incompetent bitch.

 

[Mixolydian]

Tommy Lasorda was the biggest prick in baseball for having his pitchers THROW at players bar none: and he denied it ever time he was asked!!

It’s been posted before, but always worth another look. Freakin’ hilarious...

NSFW!!!!

 

[Lattner]

Cincinnati should not have a team, strictly second rate everything.
Moving the team to Louisville or Des Moines would be an improvement.

 

[Connorpozlee]

Kela started it (most likely on his own given his reputation) and should have been tossed. It was over when Hughes hit Marte in the ass. If Garrett doesn’t give up a 3 run bomb and instead gets Osuna out, he goes back to the dugout and the whole melee never happens. I have never seen a guy sprint on his own to the other team’s dugout. He must be really courageous (stupid). And David Bell is a whiny little incompetent bitch.

I believe Williams was tossed before Garrett charged the bench, so he must have been doing some serious chirping. I haven’t seen a guy charge another team’s dugout on his own before either and I loved it. Sure beats the hell out of the old Darryl Strawberry “I’m going to charge at you then slow down when I think I’m almost close enough to get hit so people get in my way” style. As I said earlier, I love to see some fire out of the Reds.

 

[wbcincy]

Nobody puffs out there chest and acts like the baddest man on the planet while actually doing nothing more than Puig. Either do something or don’t, but enough of the actionless routine.

 

[Mixolydian]

No doubt

Tough thing is, it will be a small miracle if that whiny little bitch’s nonsense doesn’t result in someone getting hurt..... and equally likely that it could end up being one of “his” as it is one of the other guy’s.

I especially liked the 46 year old sprinting from the clubhouse wanting to fight the 62 year old with two replaced hips. Judging by the post game interview I guess his wittle feewings were hurt. What a pvssy. He might as well get the most out of what will be a brief stint as a manager in the bigs.

 

[Mixolydian]

I believe Williams was tossed before Garrett charged the bench, so he must have been doing some serious chirping. I haven’t seen a guy charge another team’s dugout on his own before either and I loved it. Sure beats the hell out of the old Darryl Strawberry “I’m going to charge at you then slow down when I think I’m almost close enough to get hit so people get in my way” style. As I said earlier, I love to see some fire out of the Reds.

Garrett was chirping at Josh Bell and Williams said something. Probably said “nice pitch” after the gofer ball Garret threw to Osuna which was absolutely nuked. I noticed Garrett went for Williams and not Bell. Hmmmm

 

[Mixolydian]

Nobody puffs out there chest and acts like the baddest man on the planet while actually doing nothing more than Puig. Either do something or don’t, but enough of the actionless routine.

He looks like he could do some serious damage but never gets there. Seems like he’s usually more interested in seeing how many teammates it takes to hold him back.

 

[Connorpozlee]

Garrett was chirping at Josh Bell and Williams said something. Probably said “nice pitch” after the gofer ball Garret threw to Osuna which was absolutely nuked. I noticed Garrett went for Williams and not Bell. Hmmmm

Probably said more than nice pitch. Just a guess, but the Reds announcers said right before Garrett charged at Williams that he had been ejected.

 

[Obliviax]

Crazy brawl in Reds @ Pirates tonight.

5 years of the Pirates leading MLB in hits batsman. I enjoyed seeing the Reds not put up with Hurdle's crap tonight, I enjoyed Amir Garrett not putting up with the Pirates trash-talking nonsense, and I enjoyed the already-ejected David Bell coming back out on the field to try to maim Hurdle.

NOBODY in MLB likes Hurdle. I honestly don't know how Pirates fans can defend him.

I used to rail at this kind of stuff....but have come to realize it is part of the game within the game. Throwing inside is clearly part of the game. And when you've got younger pitchers, hitting a batter is more expected. Bottom line is, Play the game to win. Let the umps do the rest. If the umps don't like what you are doing, or the league, they'll take action. If not, it is A-OK.

 

[lions15psu]

I haven’t seen a guy charge another team’s dugout on his own before either and I loved it.

Where I come from, if you charge a group of men and start swinging you deserve the ass beating you have coming. Garrett knew his teammates would jump in before that happened though of course.

Bell is on pace for the most ejections of a manager in over 100 years and his team leads the league in ejections this season. Instead of crying about how mean the Pirates are and how they are bad for the game, maybe you should take a look in the mirror Davey.

 

[michnittlion]

As a Reds fan, I enjoyed the hell out of the brawl. Good to see some fire from that team for a change. I hate hearing all the sanctimonious “there’s no place in baseball for that...” nonsense by the announcers. Sometimes the best thing a team can do is to empty the benches. I applaud Garrett for charging the Pirates bench. Enough of the posing like you want to fight somebody. Go and actually do it. If the umpires didn’t want this to happen they could have stopped it when the pitch was thrown over Dietrich’s head.
All that said, I get the dislike for Dietrich. He is one cocky douche. Not sure what problem you would have with Votto though.

+1000000

The Pirates and Hurdle started that nonsense by throwing at Dietrich's head last night. What the hell? They already got their "retribution" against Dietrich multiple times this season, and I guess they decided they needed to do it again in reckless and dangerous fashion.

I wish I could have heard the mound conversation between Garrett and the Reds bench coach. Garrett was in a mood from the second he entered the game.

 

[Connorpozlee]

Where I come from, if you charge a group of men and start swinging you deserve the ass beating you have coming. Garrett knew his teammates would jump in before that happened though of course.

Bell is on pace for the most ejections of a manager in over 100 years and his team leads the league in ejections this season. Instead of crying about how mean the Pirates are and how they are bad for the game, maybe you should take a look in the mirror Davey.

I’m not sold on Bell as a manager by any means. He makes some odd moves. I do like his willingness to back his players though.
Garrett I am sold on. He’s had a great year and I like the fire.

 

[nits74]

Kela started it (most likely on his own given his reputation) and should have been tossed. It was over when Hughes hit Marte in the ass. If Garrett doesn’t give up a 3 run bomb and instead gets Osuna out, he goes back to the dugout and the whole melee never happens. I have never seen a guy sprint on his own to the other team’s dugout. He must be really courageous (stupid). And David Bell is a whiny little incompetent bitch.

Exactly, David Bell is a wuss. He was almost crying during his post game interview. As for you Mich, you have a short,or should I say selective, memory. Chapman while with the Reds was one of the biggest headhunters in the game. He repeatedly tried to hurt Cutch numerous times, and Dusty Baker was the biggest proponent of this sort of thing.

 

[michnittlion]

Exactly, David Bell is a wuss. He was almost crying during his post game interview. As for you Mich, you have a short memory. Chapman while with the Reds was one of the biggest headhunters in the game. He repeatedly tried to hurt Cutch numerous times, and Dusty Baker was the biggest proponent of this sort of thing.

I've said it before here --- I didn't like when Chapman threw that one particular pitch (the 101 MPH fastball that was above the waist) in that Friday Night game back in 2012. That was crummy.

I have no idea why the Pirates bench was chirping at Garrett. The 3-run HR (that landed in Kentucky) that Osuna hit was meaningless. Why the heck is Trevor Williams yapping? Maybe he's frustrated because the one good span of his MLB career (back half of 2018) is over. Garrett's a better pitcher than him (and is also the rare player bigger than him).

 

[Mixolydian]

+1000000

The Pirates and Hurdle started that nonsense by throwing at Dietrich's head last night. What the hell? They already got their "retribution" against Dietrich multiple times this season, and I guess they decided they needed to do it again in reckless and dangerous fashion.

I wish I could have heard the mound conversation between Garrett and the Reds bench coach. Garrett was in a mood from the second he entered the game.

Catch up here dummy. Kela admitted he did it on his own. He should have been tossed. His teammates aren’t backing him.

I’ll give you a hint on that conversation you’re so interested in:

Garrett: I’m so pissed coach. I want to go after Josh Bell but he’s a monster and would beat the Fvck out of me.

Coach: Trevor Williams doesn’t look very tough... give me the ball and go get him. I’ll go after one of those 70 year olds on the Pirates bench.

 

[psualt]

I think Bell should probably view the monitor on balls/strikes before getting ejected....especially to back a player like Puig who was gone by the end of the night anyway. I'm not sure I get plugging Marte then Garrett charge the dugout. As another poster said, Garrett had a bug up his a$$ from the time he entered the game.

 

[83wuzme]

The Pirates could lose 100 games this year.
I am rooting for them.

 

[eidolon21]

If you added up the IQs of Bell, Hurdle and Kapler, you wouldn't get to 100!!! All three like to take hot hitters (say 7 for 11) out of the Line up particularly on Sundays. Why not rest them after they go 1 for 10 in three games???

 

[michnittlion]

Catch up here dummy. Kela admitted he did it on his own. He should have been tossed. His teammates aren’t backing him.

I’ll give you a hint on that conversation you’re so interested in:

Garrett: I’m so pissed coach. I want to go after Josh Bell but he’s a monster and would beat the Fvck out of me.

Coach: Trevor Williams doesn’t look very tough... give me the ball and go get him. I’ll go after one of those 70 year olds on the Pirates bench.

Trevor Williams is almost as big a guy as Josh Bell. Pfffffffffft, scared of Bell.

Amir Garrett has definitely risen up the ranks of my favorite Reds.

 

[BBG65]

I'm not a fan of Hurdle's at all, but mostly for strategy reasons. However, David Bell is an a-hole who doesn't have a good grasp of the truth.

 

[cjrugger]

I don’t like either team, but it’s hilarious to hear the Pirates fans defend this. There’s a reason everyone has an issue with the Pirates. You want to throw inside, that’s fine. But if you intentionally throw behind, over and at people, don’t act surprised when you get punched in the face. Embarrassing that Garrett ran into a pick of 4 Pirates, dropped one of them, and walked away unscathed

 

[Mixolydian]

Trevor Williams is almost as big a guy as Josh Bell. Pfffffffffft, scared of Bell.

Amir Garrett has definitely risen up the ranks of my favorite Reds.

You continue to show what an idiot you are.

 

[Fox Chapel Lion II]

I think Clint Hurdle is a complete mope and a moron. That said he did a great job last night. That was the most life the Pirates have shown in two months.

Kela is a very odd bird. What he had in mind when he knocked down Dietrich, who knows, but it doesn't matter. Dietrich had it coming and well deserved. Then Garrett hits Marte - that's fine, Marte knew he was going to get plunked, now everybody is even and that should have been the end of it.

But noooooooo. Garrett had to do his Hulk Hogan act and charge the Pirates bench. Big bad pitcher Williams hurt Garrett's feelings. His posturing that he wanted a piece of Josh Bell was hilarity - Bell would have bent him into a pretzel.

What the hell was David Bell doing? He had already been tossed - the rules are that he can't be in the dugout let alone come back on to the field after already being thrown out and try and go after Hurdle. Now everybody knows that ejected managers hang out in the tunnel and that's kinda winked at, but to come back out for a fight - that has to be a suspension.

You get good baseball fights once in a great while. Years and years ago I remember a game with the Reds and Phillies - some steamy night in South Philly, close game, Ron Reed on the hill for the Phillies. Some Red had hit a homer previously and when he came up to bat, took his own sweet time getting into the box and then screwed around with adjusting, scratching and spitting. Reed (who was nobody to fool with) made him bite the dust and it was ON. Back in the days when men were men and baseball was REAL baseball.

 

[Mixolydian]

Probably said more than nice pitch. Just a guess, but the Reds announcers said right before Garrett charged at Williams that he had been ejected.

The “nice pitch” comment was TIC.

 

[Connorpozlee]

Exactly, David Bell is a wuss. He was almost crying during his post game interview. As for you Mich, you have a short memory. Chapman while with the Reds was one of the biggest headhunters in the game. He repeatedly tried to hurt Cutch numerous times, and Dusty baker was the biggest instigator of this sort of thing in the game.

Let’s be honest. All teams have guys that

I think Clint Hurdle is a complete mope and a moron. That said he did a great job last night. That was the most life the Pirates have shown in two months.

Kela is a very odd bird. What he had in mind when he knocked down Dietrich, who knows, but it doesn't matter. Dietrich had it coming and well deserved. Then Garrett hits Marte - that's fine, Marte knew he was going to get plunked, now everybody is even and that should have been the end of it.

But noooooooo. Garrett had to do his Hulk Hogan act and charge the Pirates bench. Big bad pitcher Williams hurt Garrett's feelings. His posturing that he wanted a piece of Josh Bell was hilarity - Bell would have bent him into a pretzel.

What the hell was David Bell doing? He had already been tossed - the rules are that he can't be in the dugout let alone come back on to the field after already being thrown out and try and go after Hurdle. Now everybody knows that ejected managers hang out in the tunnel and that's kinda winked at, but to come back out for a fight - that has to be a suspension.

You get good baseball fights once in a great while. Years and years ago I remember a game with the Reds and Phillies - some steamy night in South Philly, close game, Ron Reed on the hill for the Phillies. Some Red had hit a homer previously and when he came up to bat, took his own sweet time getting into the box and then screwed around with adjusting, scratching and spitting. Reed (who was nobody to fool with) made him bite the dust and it was ON. Back in the days when men were men and baseball was REAL baseball.

It was Hughes that hit Marte. He was tossed, which brought Garrett into the game. I’m not sure exactly what Williams was saying to Garrett, but it was enough to get him tossed before the fight started. Or at least that is what the Reds announcers said. I have no problem with Garret going after him. Likewise, if it had done in reverse, I would have no problem with Williams charging Garrett. It’s good to see some passion in baseball.

 

[Fox Chapel Lion II]

Let’s be honest. All teams have guys that


It was Hughes that hit Marte. He was tossed, which brought Garrett into the game. I’m not sure exactly what Williams was saying to Garrett, but it was enough to get him tossed before the fight started. Or at least that is what the Reds announcers said. I have no problem with Garret going after him. Likewise, if it had done in reverse, I would have no problem with Williams charging Garrett. It’s good to see some passion in baseball.

Absolutely right my mistake. Yeah Hughes hit Marte and got tossed, then Garrett got lit up like a Roman candle. Williams started with the lip and Garrett went berserk.

I had no problem with any of it from either side. Sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do.

 

[GregInPitt]

I think Clint Hurdle is a complete mope and a moron. That said he did a great job last night. That was the most life the Pirates have shown in two months.

Kela is a very odd bird. What he had in mind when he knocked down Dietrich, who knows, but it doesn't matter. Dietrich had it coming and well deserved. Then Garrett hits Marte - that's fine, Marte knew he was going to get plunked, now everybody is even and that should have been the end of it.

But noooooooo. Garrett had to do his Hulk Hogan act and charge the Pirates bench. Big bad pitcher Williams hurt Garrett's feelings. His posturing that he wanted a piece of Josh Bell was hilarity - Bell would have bent him into a pretzel.

What the hell was David Bell doing? He had already been tossed - the rules are that he can't be in the dugout let alone come back on to the field after already being thrown out and try and go after Hurdle. Now everybody knows that ejected managers hang out in the tunnel and that's kinda winked at, but to come back out for a fight - that has to be a suspension.

You get good baseball fights once in a great while. Years and years ago I remember a game with the Reds and Phillies - some steamy night in South Philly, close game, Ron Reed on the hill for the Phillies. Some Red had hit a homer previously and when he came up to bat, took his own sweet time getting into the box and then screwed around with adjusting, scratching and spitting. Reed (who was nobody to fool with) made him bite the dust and it was ON. Back in the days when men were men and baseball was REAL baseball.

Bell may have lined up a cheap vacation on Southwest Vacations, or another site. He will need something to do during what should be a lengthy suspension. MLB may set a precedent for what the announcers said was a first - a previously tossed manager coming back to the field to get in the middle of a melee....

The Pirates have not exactly been must watch TV over the last few weeks. But I give them credit for entertainment value last night!!

 

[Mixolydian]

Along those lines..... and anyone who has ever seen Josh Bell try to make a throw to ANYWHERE from his position at first base would understand:


The next time the Buccos are getting completely slobber-knocked (which could be any day), and they want to "save the bullpen" by using a position player on the mound....

Put Josh on the bump.

Watching him try to throw the ball somewhere in the general vicinity of 60'6".... while keeping the direction of the toss somewhere between 1st base and 3rd base.... would be worth the price of a (cheap) ticket.


It would make Nuke LaLouche look like Greg Maddux.


In fact, when they do it, they should play with no catcher behind the plate - just put another fielder in the infield - since there is very little chance that many pitches would be reachable for the catcher anyway. Just let the pitches ricochet off of the backstop (or the dugouts, or whatever).

THAT would get my attention.


Added benefit: If you do it against the Reds, you get to watch the Red's Manager piss all over himself.

Does anybody ever mention this on the broadcasts or is it taboo? I watch and listen to a pretty high % of Bucco games and rarely if ever hear it mentioned.

Bell has the yips, and I have been saying it for a few years. I think it’s as bad or worse than what Pedro Alvarez had. You can tell by the way he returns the ball to the pitcher after a pick off attempt. He can’t even throw a ball straight for 60’ to 90’. He usually bounces it from that distance with some awkward shot put motion. I’ve seen him throw a ball to 2nd base and it bounces twice before getting there. It’s painful to watch. The 70’ throw he attempted to home on a cut off a few games ago was one of the ugliest things I’ve ever seen on a baseball field.

 

[Fox Chapel Lion II]

It really is amazing... when you think this kid has been playing higher levels of baseball for, what, a dozen years????
Every day going at there and at least "tossing a baseball around"?


Forget Pedro, Bell makes Steve Sax - or Steve Blass, at his worst - look like Roger Clemens.

He truly looks like - and this isn't meant to be "funny" - a severely physically disabled kid when he throws a baseball.
Even the form/motion/whatever the heck you want to call it, look like something you'd expect from a European soccer player who never actually threw a ball in his life.


It is just really hard to imagine that is even possible.
I have no idea WTF happened to him.

The Pirates coaching staff got a hold of him and had him throw more two-seamers.

 

[Mixolydian]

Absolutely right my mistake. Yeah Hughes hit Marte and got tossed, then Garrett got lit up like a Roman candle. Williams started with the lip and Garrett went berserk.

I had no problem with any of it from either side. Sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do.

The thing that happened in between was Garrett repeatedly calling Josh Bell a POS. That’s when Williams started chirping. Again if Garrett doesn’t get tortured by Osuna, the whole thing was over. Kela was the main offender, but Hughes took care of it. Garrett got his feelings hurt and reignited it.

 

[Fox Chapel Lion II]

Ouch!! That - like most "truths" - really hurts!

"pitch to contact" - with the ground.