OT: If PSU students do not go back in the Fall due to COVID, but already signed an apartment lease
- Thread starter LealandLoyal
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Boy, unless there is some clause in the lease that ties performance to a condition of the University, i.e., you are excused from performance under the lease if the University closes down for whatever reason, I'm not sure what legal grounds you would have to not comply. I think at that point you'd be relying on the good graces of the landlord to come to some amicable agreement.
My friend would be willing to give up the one month security deposit she has paid to get out of the lease. But could the landlord go after the lessee for other months' rent as well? Seems to me the students should organize and just refuse to pay fall rents if PSU is online only in the Fall.
I have not seen the typical leases used by the big companies in town but the "boilerplate" PA lease I've seen and used offers the out only if another tenant is identified who will then take the premises.
I don't know how you could logistically do it but instead of an extra $600/week UC perhaps some of that should have been allocated to rent abatement. Certainly it would be easy for the government to require 3-6 months of mortgage payment deferment with the offer to pay the interest directly to the lenders for it but I don't know how you do that for renters without creating a paperwork nightmare that the government clearly isn't prepared for.
it will be clear in the lease. There will be a paragraph outlining the terms of breaking the lease. As I said, and I have a couple of rental properties, it is common to loose one month and/or the security deposit. If the terms are stipulated in the agreement, there is no other recourse for the property owner.
I'm not a property lawyer. But take a look at the lease, particularly whether it has a "force majeure" clause and, if so, what types of situations are enumerated in that clause. It's possible that it could include a provision about "pandemic," or "government-mandated closure," or something that might fit what's going on right now. But even then, we're in uncharted territory in terms of enforcement of force majeure clauses for this thing - and even then, enforcement of those clauses tends to often be pretty narrow, and often specific to the exact scenarios listed in the clause.
Otherwise, you might be better suited, as others have stated, trying to come to an amicable agreement with the landlord (good luck!) or otherwise preparing to pony up whatever amount is contemplated in the lease as the penalty for breaking it.
Otherwise, you might be better suited, as others have stated, trying to come to an amicable agreement with the landlord (good luck!) or otherwise preparing to pony up whatever amount is contemplated in the lease as the penalty for breaking it.
There should be an early termination clause in the lease. They are included to avoid going to litigation. If there isn't one, it's what the parties negotiate (make sure it's in writing) or what the court decides
I'd be shocked if it was not detailed. Leases are broken all the time for health reasons, grades, loss of job, transfer, etc.
I would be surprised if it is very advantageous to the renter. If it was and you sign a 12 month lease you would see students trying to get out of 3 months of every lease.
If there is no school, the city is going to have to come up with a plan on how to process 1000s of broken leases.
My thought is something gets declared and negotiated on a large scale.
LdN
The demand can go up, but there are only so many dorm rooms available. It's a finite number. That is what created the apartment boom in town to begin with.
its a good point....of, you cancel your lease and then they decide to start up classes in late september.
So what if they go back in the spring?, seems to me that you break the lease you may be out of luck come spring time unless all leases get broken. Then there will be a mad scramble to to sign up for leases? doubt any one wants that headache.
Best option probably to keep lease but negotiate a reduced rate for time not spent on campus
Best option probably to keep lease but negotiate a reduced rate for time not spent on campus
Some of the few parties making a killing in this Covid crisis are college town landlords. Still collecting rents, practically no one living there, no refunds being paid and utility costs almost nil. And they can continue to do it for the Fall too? Seems a “frustration of purpose” doctrine would govern.
best option is to leave your kid and home and YOU move into the apartment in state college. I'll bet the pizza is better.
Hey - not to change the subject, and I may have asked you this before - how did you come up with your board name? And...do you have any relation to former Penn State Soccer Coach Walter Bahr?
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Little known fact because the State College landlords have to their gross advantage propagated false information for years: only about 80% of the available apartments in town are filled. Supply exceeds demand. Yet they’d have you falsely believe that you need to sign a lease by October for the following academic year or you’ll be shut out of a place to live. Dastards.
In addition to looking at the force majeure clause of the lease, there may also be quasi-contract theories (like frustration of purpose/impracticability) that could provide the tenant with an out. While, typically, these types of remedies are limited and narrowly construed, these are unprecedented times and the courts may be more open to fashioning an equitable remedy for the tenants. With that said, no one wants to spend the time/costs litigating these issues. Best to reach out to the landlord and try to negotiate an amicable resolution (presuming that the the state does not, itself, legislate the issue - which may very well happen at some point).
folks, it's freaking april, things are opening back up. Can we PLEASE stop trying to cancel things months down the road?
as much as that is an interesting option- we went 3 weeks ago to pick up some of his stuff and I either forgot how nasty my apartment might have been when I was in school (dont recall it being that bad) but I certainly don't want to spend a week cleaning his
also pizza wise always loved Gumbys um not so much anymore EWWWW!
Take this for what it's worth:
I am the parent of a current senior who does have a lease, but no next year to worry about. The current lease is through July of this year and kids have not been on-campus for school since early March. The landlord/apartment agency offered us the following a in late March:
1. Reduce lease by one month (25% saving of future rent).
2. Pay in full by mid-April with 30% discount (What we chose to do)
None of the students/parents asked for this offer that I am aware. It was offered to us, surprisingly. Hence, there may be some ability to negotiate T's&C's if school is not open for business.
I am the parent of a current senior who does have a lease, but no next year to worry about. The current lease is through July of this year and kids have not been on-campus for school since early March. The landlord/apartment agency offered us the following a in late March:
1. Reduce lease by one month (25% saving of future rent).
2. Pay in full by mid-April with 30% discount (What we chose to do)
None of the students/parents asked for this offer that I am aware. It was offered to us, surprisingly. Hence, there may be some ability to negotiate T's&C's if school is not open for business.
LOL...there is a thread opportunity there. My soph year I got a bed assigned to me. I noticed it had a small stain so turned it over to use, at least, the other side. The dude who used it has somehow pushed a hole through the foamy mattress and used it, apparently, as his lover. yikes.
If you don't mind, were you or your son notified? Was the notice by email, USPS mail, or phone? Also, would you please offer the apartment management firm? Myself, as well as many others I know are in a similar condition to yours.
What if it's Allendale, Michigan and my wife and I work in Archbold, OH? lol
And, yes, I'll agree the pizza is better there.
OL
A couple of comments for parents with kids who have signed leases in State College:
1. If the lease is for off-campus housing, the Coronavirus pandemic does not provide the kind of "out" that your kid would have if he or she lived in a dorm or other on-campus housing. Why? In the case of on campus housing, the landlord (i.e., the University) shut down the school and the housing, so it cannot collect rent for housing it has made unavailable. That is not the case for off-campus housing. That could perhaps change if the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania or City of State College enacted some kind of legislation affecting private leases, but I have not heard of any such legislation and do not expect to see any.
2. Does your kid's lease for off-campus housing include a force majeure clause? A force majeure clause is sometimes referred to as an "acts of God" clause, in that it excuses a contracting party's performance in the event of various specified events that are manifestly beyond the control of the contracting parties. Examples might include floods, earthquakes, fires, or other natural disasters (i.e., "acts of God"), but they can also (depending on the wording of the force majeure clause in question), include other causes for non-performance, such as wars, civil insurrections, strikes, lockouts, inability to obtain materials or labor, or pandemics.
The inclusion of these latter "man made" causes of non-performance are a primary distinction between pure "acts of God" clauses and force majeure clauses. If your kid's lease for off campus housing has a force majeure clause, you should review it closely. If it has such a clause, you may be off the hook even it there is no specific reference to pandemics. Many force majeure clauses contain, at the end of the list of events excusing performance, a catch all phrase stating something like "or other events beyond the reasonable control of a contracting party." A pandemic is manifestly an event beyond the reasonable control of a contracting party.
3. Did you sign a personal guaranty of your kid's lease? If not, it may well be of little moment whether your kid has a contractual "out" from his or her lease. If he or she is like most college age kids, her or she likely has no job and few, if any, assets that a landlord could go after even if the landlord pursued a claim to judgment. Lawyers refer to such defendants as "judgment proof" defendants. In such a case, the worst case scenario for your kid is likely a negative entry on his or her credit report.
1. If the lease is for off-campus housing, the Coronavirus pandemic does not provide the kind of "out" that your kid would have if he or she lived in a dorm or other on-campus housing. Why? In the case of on campus housing, the landlord (i.e., the University) shut down the school and the housing, so it cannot collect rent for housing it has made unavailable. That is not the case for off-campus housing. That could perhaps change if the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania or City of State College enacted some kind of legislation affecting private leases, but I have not heard of any such legislation and do not expect to see any.
2. Does your kid's lease for off-campus housing include a force majeure clause? A force majeure clause is sometimes referred to as an "acts of God" clause, in that it excuses a contracting party's performance in the event of various specified events that are manifestly beyond the control of the contracting parties. Examples might include floods, earthquakes, fires, or other natural disasters (i.e., "acts of God"), but they can also (depending on the wording of the force majeure clause in question), include other causes for non-performance, such as wars, civil insurrections, strikes, lockouts, inability to obtain materials or labor, or pandemics.
The inclusion of these latter "man made" causes of non-performance are a primary distinction between pure "acts of God" clauses and force majeure clauses. If your kid's lease for off campus housing has a force majeure clause, you should review it closely. If it has such a clause, you may be off the hook even it there is no specific reference to pandemics. Many force majeure clauses contain, at the end of the list of events excusing performance, a catch all phrase stating something like "or other events beyond the reasonable control of a contracting party." A pandemic is manifestly an event beyond the reasonable control of a contracting party.
3. Did you sign a personal guaranty of your kid's lease? If not, it may well be of little moment whether your kid has a contractual "out" from his or her lease. If he or she is like most college age kids, her or she likely has no job and few, if any, assets that a landlord could go after even if the landlord pursued a claim to judgment. Lawyers refer to such defendants as "judgment proof" defendants. In such a case, the worst case scenario for your kid is likely a negative entry on his or her credit report.
As far as #3 - the judgment is a pretty big wack on your credit report. Likely make it very difficult to get another loan/mortgage, etc. Also - the judgment is valid for 10 years (and may be extended beyond that), so it's not exactly a get out of jail free card. It'll be hanging over his/her head for quite some time (unless he/she goes the bankruptcy route - which, of course, is not exactly the ideal answer).
It would be the parents organizing. I doubt the students would do anything besides just not pay and get their credit destroyed.
Regarding a negative entry on a kid's credit report, I don't mean to minimize it, but (a), it drops off after seven years; and (b) negative entries can be explained. A negative entry for an off-campus lease that became non-viable due to a pandemic is a negative entry that can easily be explained, and is unlikely to do a lot of harm. Back in 2008-2010, I advised a number of people in concluding "short sales" (sales of homes that were "underwater" in terms of mortgage debt exceeding FMV of property serving as loan collateral), and many of them have been able to get new mortgage loans since then. If someone who walks away from a prior mortgage loan can get a new mortgage loan, I think a prospective borrower with a negative credit entry for a student lease (and an otherwise good credit report) can get a mortgage, too.
Regarding judgments, I gather from your post that the life of a Pennsylvania judgment lien is ten years, and that it can be renewed by the judgment creditor. The same certainly applies in California, where I am licensed. But it costs money and time to get the judgment, obtain a signed Abstract of Judgment, and record the Abstract of Judgment in the county recorder's office, all of which you need to do in California in order to create a judgment lien. And you don't know if that judgment lien will be worth anything unless the debtor already has real property in the county where you record the Abstract, and you have determined that prior liens and encumbrances on that real property are collectively less than the current FMV of the property. Many landlords are loathe to spend the money necessary to do all of this, particularly if the lease is with a student. The judgment lien can be used in trying to obtain a wage garnishment order against the debtor, but getting a garnishment order is an even more difficult legal obstacle.
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The management agency sent an email to all parents/students living in the apartment. I was fine with that approach. We had to sign and email or fax back signature acknowledging our choice. I emailed as did all others so far as I know.
The realty firm is Westside Village.
Sure there is. You keep posting that there won't be in-person classes.
There is no proof to support classes will NOT be held on campus in the fall either.
Doesn't the landlord have a creditor as well ? pass it up the chain till it gets to the entities that can absorb the hit like its drop in bucket, I'm sure the landlord is working it from both ends
The landlord owns two hundred apartments in State College. At about $2,500 per apt, that’s $500,000 a month in rent. Why should COVID give him a windfall while everyone else takes a hit?
that is not a windfall for the property company it is their normal income based upon rentals. Does your summer home not require a mortgage payment in the winter months because you are not there? If you rent it pay for it. I know there are kids here in State College that chose to group quarantine with their friends (more concerns about PSU quality). What are they owed? Should my boss continue to pay our rent since we aren't there?
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