OT: Interesting article on why baseball sucks, from Bleacher Report
- Thread starter LionJim
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Come on, LionJim, you can do better than that! Shouldn't there be some rank and order to the degree of suckiness?
I enjoy following baseball and the Phillies through highlights and box scores. But don't particularly enjoy watching entire games.
I've watched most of the LLWS games from WIlliamsport, as I do every year, yet I haven't watched a professional game in decades. I understand the LLWS series is getting 3x the viewership of pro games broadcast on ESPN. So for me, and others it seems, it isn't that I dislike the game, it's more that I have no interest in professional athletes.
MLB should switch to the hockey rule -- 20 guys can dress per game (although baseball should be more like 16-18). Less pinch hitters, less pitching changes.
They should also require two infielders be positioned on each side of second base when the pitch is thrown, lower the mound (or even eliminate it), stop winding the balls so tight, incorporate a pitch clock, keep batters in the box and don't let them call timeout once the pitcher is on the rubber, make umpires enforce the actual strike zone (vs. their own), change the challenge rule to eject the manager and pitcher of record if a call is upheld (fewer challenges), end games after 12 innings and either call it a tie or award the win by some other criteria (like hockey, regular season games only) and any other number of rules that would improve the pace of play and the quality of the game.
My opinions only -- others are free to enjoy the game as it is.
They should also require two infielders be positioned on each side of second base when the pitch is thrown, lower the mound (or even eliminate it), stop winding the balls so tight, incorporate a pitch clock, keep batters in the box and don't let them call timeout once the pitcher is on the rubber, make umpires enforce the actual strike zone (vs. their own), change the challenge rule to eject the manager and pitcher of record if a call is upheld (fewer challenges), end games after 12 innings and either call it a tie or award the win by some other criteria (like hockey, regular season games only) and any other number of rules that would improve the pace of play and the quality of the game.
My opinions only -- others are free to enjoy the game as it is.
My buddy BRU and I go to LV Ironpigs games. We always enjoy the games. We shoot the breeze, strategize, talk player development, and generally have a good time at the ballpark. Baseball is a slower game. It doesn’t, however, suck.
Baseball will still be around when football is long dead.
IMHO, the issue is homeruns. MLB started to make smaller and smaller stadiums. The only large one in MLB is Tiger Stadium in Detroit. So more and more runs are scored on homeruns.
Then add the new shift dynamics. With so many homerun hitters that just want to pull the ball, most players don't have the skill or desire to hit the ball the opposite way. So the shift has lowered batting averages of 30 to 40 points (is an estimate I heard given by the Tribe announcers). So that makes scoring even MORE about HR's than moving the runners over with good bat control.
So now you've got a ton of guys, who move their hands down on the bat as far as they can without losing the grip (and some do). You've got long, powerful swings. And you've got managers that pack their teams with HR hitters 1-9 (and new body building techniques contribute).
Net result? HR's and SO's.
There will be a new wave of hitters that hone a skill set to slap the ball and the game will adjust, IMHO.
i like a lot of those suggestions. forcing players to stay in the box between pitches and pitchers to have a shot clock are big ones to speed things up some. And i agree that there should be a set number of pitching changes allowed per game (maybe versus the players dressed rule0 to stop the 7-9 innings of games taking as long as the first 6 innings. would add some strategy involved as well to say only three pitchers allowed per game or something like that.
The only issue with number of changes vs. number of players dressed is accounting for injuries. Need a rule to account for a pitcher getting injured after the final allowed change is made. But this also plays into why I'm in favor of ending games after 12 innings.
I think you mean Comerica Park. Tiger Stadium was torn down awhile ago.
right...thanks. I don't take the time to keep up with all of the corporate naming stuff going on. to me, its yankee stadium, Tribe stadium, Pirates stadium, Phillies stadium, etc.I think you mean Comerica Park. Tiger Stadium was torn down awhile ago.
My soap box is the World Series. You pay starters a ton and then come playoffs, the game simply becomes a battle of bullpens. Starters get yanked in the 3rd or 4th innings. If I was Andrew Miller or some of the other guys, I’d be asking for as much as top line starters since you don’t win without guys like Miller. Starters get you to the post season, relievers win you the post season. I would have loved seeing the reactions of say Bob Gibson and Jack Morris more recently if you went to get them in the 4th inning in a game that was still manageable. And then you take your closers and turn them into 2-3 inning guys in th3 post season. It’s ridiculous. It’s all match ups, analytics, etc.
Hughie Alexander is spinning in his grave along with The Pope and other baseball lifers.
That Trouble with the Curve movie is exactly what the game became. Lifers tossed aside for geeks who never played.
Hughie Alexander is spinning in his grave along with The Pope and other baseball lifers.
That Trouble with the Curve movie is exactly what the game became. Lifers tossed aside for geeks who never played.
The problem with post season baseball is that they have more frequent travel days and rest, so it becomes a fundamentally different game than the regular season. At least in the NFL you’re essentially keeping with the same cadence until the Big Game. MLB for years had been a game of having the best pair of starters you could afford, and pad the rest of the roster enough to make the playoffs. At that point your two aces got 4 or often 5 starts in a 7 game series.
Agree...a five man rotation becomes two-point-five. And coaches play to keep their bullpen's rested. So a team really wins with two really good and healthy starters. They then need a great setup man and closer with a lefty or two in there. In addition, every pitch counts so the tension is higher, leading to shorter starting gigs. Rarely does a manager want their pitcher to have to face a better three or four times in a game (unless he's been dominating)
But this is not dissimilar to the NBA, where the post season is typically much more physical. Good regular season teams aren't always good post season teams.
It's how the Phillies lost in 2011. Doesn't matter if your 3, 4, and 5 are better than the other guys in the playoffs. In the regular season, it does.
I did get to see a game in Tiger Stadium--vs the Phillies (as I recall, Abreu's first year). Odd weekend--saw some funnel clouds off in the distance as we were coming out of the hotel the next morning. I have not yet been to Comerica. If the Phillies were to come in on a weekend, I might try it, as Detroit is not that far for me.
I agree 100% with this. There should be no travel days off in a short series and only 1 day off in a 7 game series.
I have a similar complaint about March Madness. They add more time outs and stretch them longer than the regular season. This makes it almost unnecessary to substitute.
Great old Rick Reilly article on the subject: http://www.espn.com/espn/story/_/id/8126341/mlb-pace-play-problem
MLB is the sport of the living dead.
MLB is the sport of the living dead.
yeah....and a lot of luck involved, especially in five game series. Several years ago, the Tribe had, probably, the best team in baseball. They played the Orioles in a five game series. Alomar hit a two strike pitch that was outside and down around his shoe-tops for a double that scored three and led to them winning a key game one on the road. They eventually won 3 games to 2. One example. Last year, Tribe was up 2-0 on the Yankees and Kluber hurt his back. In the series against the Cubs, game 7 at home, Tribe hits a three run homer to tie the game and shake the Cubs team to its core. Then it starts to rain and there is a substantial rain delay. Cubs come back and win it in extra innings. To a man, the Cubs said there was no way they would have recovered if they didn't have that rain delay to settle them down. That's baseball. You an hit the ball hard, right at someone. And you can drop a pop fly off the end of the bad down the first base line for a double. Margin between an a good team and a bad team is played out over dozens of games.
Here in CLE, they've adjusted the game. Being played in CLE in the summer, the games have become "events" where the actual game is secondary. They took out a lot of seats and opened up standing room terraces where beer flows and flesh is pressed. Uber and Lyft make a ton. On TV, I often have the game on while I read emails and put away the dishes.
As long as the league can keep some kind of decent competitive balance (C'mon Sox and Yankees, give someone else a chance at free agents) they'll be just fine. The great thing about baseball is that the game has evolved and survived over scandals, wars, economics, body's, mound height, seam heights...etc.
IMO if you want to make baseball more exciting then shorten the season. There would be a lot more interest in games if they cut the schedule and the World Series was in September. I don’t want any more restrictions on number players or substitutions as it restricts the ability to manage.
That’s sad to look at. Did Ty Cobb play in Tiger Stadium?I think you mean Comerica Park. Tiger Stadium was torn down awhile ago.
Which is 7 minutes more action in approximately the same amount of time as an NFL game.
If you go way back, this is true. But in more recent times (like the 70's) I think this was more the result of symmetrical cookie cutter stadiums than anything intentional.
Three Rivers went from left to right -- 335 - 375 - 400 - 375 - 335
PNC Park goes 325 - 383 - 410 (left center notch) - 399 (straightaway center) - 375 - 320
Left field line is closer but the alley is much deeper. Center is pretty much identical. Right center is the same and Right field line is closer. BUT the right field wall is 21 feet tall vs. 10 feet at Three Rivers.
But compare three rivers to Forbes Field -- yikes. That was 360 - 462 - 442 - 376.
Captain Willie took advantage of the shorter dimensions. But overall HR's didn't explode until the PED era. In fact, the Willie McGee / Ozzie Smith era Cardinals were one of the best and they didn't hit for much power at all. They were slap hitters with speed on the bases.
I think it would change how the game is managed, not restrict it. Decisions become much more important when you have fewer choices.
yeah agree, to your point on the McGee/Smith Cardinals, they played on the Carpet and mgt. put together an ideal team to exploit (offensively and defensively) that playing surface. Pirates, at three rivers, used to call it "a bug on the rug" game. But the game adjusted both in terms of going back to dirt fields and the type of players developed. I think it is a matter of time before teams start fielding hitters that are adept at exploiting and punishing the shift. The Tribe's pitchers have been awesome at painting the corners and changing speeds. They are happy to give up the gap hits and bloops but make it tough to hit dingers. They know teams coming in are no longer equipped to string four, five and six hits together. As the Pirates announcer use to say, they all play for a "bloop and a blast".
I hope so. The game right now is terrible to watch. Some of that is me being a jaded fan of the Pirates. But they are a team that, if run properly, should lead the way toward that change. They need to build around cheaper players -- hit for decent average and steal some bases vs. hitting 40 home runs. Play great defense and develop lots of young arms.
PNC is considered more of a pitcher's park due to the deep left center field and high wall in right. Build a team that hits balls into that gap and run like crazy like the Cardinals did. And pitch, pitch, pitch.
When they talked about how baseball has become a game of strikeouts and home runs, all I could think about is why I hate the NBA so much today. The NBA has turned into a game of dunks and 3-pointers where the "basics" like 12-15 foot jumpers and solid defense have all but disappeared. Just like hit-and-run and advancing the runner are disappearing from baseball. I haven't watched and NBA game in about 20 years and an entire MLB game in about 10 years. Today I will turn on a game around the 7th inning and watch the ending.
The part of the article I chuckled at was Zack Greinke's grasp of finances when he said ...
"You just keep shuffling guys in and out constantly so nobody will ever get paid. Someone's going to make the money, either the owners or the players. You keep doing it that way, the players won't make any money."
The MLB minimum salary is $545,000 to play 8 months. If that isn't enough for a baseball player they could always pick up a job October through January. A lot of people hire for the holiday rush.
Yes. The field itself is still there and they are working on preserving it as a playground (they tried to preserve part of the facade before demolition, but that failed) as part of a development (part of the grounds will be used for Detroit's PAL program).
I attended my first Pirates game of the 2018 season last evening.
It was truly a pleasant night - weather not too hot/humid - a nice breeze at times - even the ball girls were wearing jackets in the later innings. The foot long hot dog with grilled onions and peppers was a good dinner, especially after I added some jalapeno peppers and mustard.
The Braves trotted out a "minor leaguer" to pitch and he had the home-standing Buccos befuddled. This does not shock me in the least. He lasted around 6 innings and the Braves manager (no clue what his name is) had the path from the bullpen loaded with traffic like the Parkway East.
Of course, Clint Hurdle, a micro-manager who is unequalled in his love of number crunching (analytics) had his latest and greatest acquisition give up a run in the first inning and dance through the mythical raindrops with Braves on the base paths in every inning but they couldn't make it to the final 90 feet. The young, popular pitcher named after the constellation (Archer) lasted 4 or 5 innings and was mercifully taken out so that Pirates fans could also enjoy the bullpen stroll.
It mercifully ended 0-1 after 3 and a third hours of strikeouts (mostly by Pirates), and not a Pirate's spank of the baseball that flew over 250 feet. Didn't matter what the ballpark dimensions were. For all their firepower, the Braves hit one out (foul) and did bounce one off the Clemente wall in right fie which led to their winning tally. I did see a stolen base and my man Frankie (Cerveilli) gunned out 2 Braves who were attempting to pilfer a base. That's Amore!
Made it home in time to watch the local sports on the 11 pm news and discovered that Archer was pulled from the lineup because he tweaked his left leg swinging the bat. They showed the video of his swing and ... yes, he swung the bat. Oh the humanity.
Only 18 days until Appalachian State comes to Beaver Stadium.
It was truly a pleasant night - weather not too hot/humid - a nice breeze at times - even the ball girls were wearing jackets in the later innings. The foot long hot dog with grilled onions and peppers was a good dinner, especially after I added some jalapeno peppers and mustard.
The Braves trotted out a "minor leaguer" to pitch and he had the home-standing Buccos befuddled. This does not shock me in the least. He lasted around 6 innings and the Braves manager (no clue what his name is) had the path from the bullpen loaded with traffic like the Parkway East.
Of course, Clint Hurdle, a micro-manager who is unequalled in his love of number crunching (analytics) had his latest and greatest acquisition give up a run in the first inning and dance through the mythical raindrops with Braves on the base paths in every inning but they couldn't make it to the final 90 feet. The young, popular pitcher named after the constellation (Archer) lasted 4 or 5 innings and was mercifully taken out so that Pirates fans could also enjoy the bullpen stroll.
It mercifully ended 0-1 after 3 and a third hours of strikeouts (mostly by Pirates), and not a Pirate's spank of the baseball that flew over 250 feet. Didn't matter what the ballpark dimensions were. For all their firepower, the Braves hit one out (foul) and did bounce one off the Clemente wall in right fie which led to their winning tally. I did see a stolen base and my man Frankie (Cerveilli) gunned out 2 Braves who were attempting to pilfer a base. That's Amore!
Made it home in time to watch the local sports on the 11 pm news and discovered that Archer was pulled from the lineup because he tweaked his left leg swinging the bat. They showed the video of his swing and ... yes, he swung the bat. Oh the humanity.
Only 18 days until Appalachian State comes to Beaver Stadium.
