OT: Nursing home finance question

[john4psu]

I'm hoping the all-knowing BWI board can answer some questions for me. My mother's health has taken a turn for the worse and it looks like she'll never be independent from now on as dimentia is setting in along with a myriad of other health issues.

She was living on her own in a senior citizen high-rise. Her prognosis is perhaps long term rehab in a nursing home. I know she has Medicare which I believe will cover her stay for the first 20 days. Beyond that days 21-100 she will have a co-pay and from day 101 on it's all private pay. That's my understanding but I may be mistaken.

My sister, hopefully, has completed a Medicaid application for our mom which could take up to three months I'm told to be approved. She's certainly financially eligible for it.

If the co-pays and medical bills become significant over time, can they come after my or my sister's homes? I've been told she could be considered a ward of the state and they wouldn't come after my or my sister's assets. I do not know if that's true or not.

Any information and/or past experiences with this is greatly appreciated. Thank you in advance.

 

[bdgan]

I'm hoping the all-knowing BWI board can answer some questions for me. My mother's health has taken a turn for the worse and it looks like she'll never be independent from now on as dimentia is setting in along with a myriad of other health issues.

She was living on her own in a senior citizen high-rise. Her prognosis is perhaps long term rehab in a nursing home. I know she has Medicare which I believe will cover her stay for the first 20 days. Beyond that days 21-100 she will have a co-pay and from day 101 on it's all private pay. That's my understanding but I may be mistaken.

My sister, hopefully, has completed a Medicaid application for our mom which could take up to three months I'm told to be approved. She's certainly financially eligible for it.

If the co-pays and medical bills become significant over time, can they come after my or my sister's homes? I've been told she could be considered a ward of the state and they wouldn't come after my or my sister's assets. I do not know if that's true or not.

Any information and/or past experiences with this is greatly appreciated. Thank you in advance.

You and your sister are not liable for your mother's expenses.

 

[Ceasar]

I'm hoping the all-knowing BWI board can answer some questions for me. My mother's health has taken a turn for the worse and it looks like she'll never be independent from now on as dimentia is setting in along with a myriad of other health issues.

She was living on her own in a senior citizen high-rise. Her prognosis is perhaps long term rehab in a nursing home. I know she has Medicare which I believe will cover her stay for the first 20 days. Beyond that days 21-100 she will have a co-pay and from day 101 on it's all private pay. That's my understanding but I may be mistaken.

My sister, hopefully, has completed a Medicaid application for our mom which could take up to three months I'm told to be approved. She's certainly financially eligible for it.

If the co-pays and medical bills become significant over time, can they come after my or my sister's homes? I've been told she could be considered a ward of the state and they wouldn't come after my or my sister's assets. I do not know if that's true or not.

Any information and/or past experiences with this is greatly appreciated. Thank you in advance.

No worries John. The state will not come after you or your sister. It is correct that it takes approximately three months for a Medical Assistance (MA) application to be approved or denied. If your mom is apprroved then all costs are covered forever. The only caveat to all of this is that by entering the MA program your mom will be agreeing to the estate recovery program. This means that upon her death her property must be sold and the proceeds paid to the state up to the amount that was spent on her care and this likely will exceed the value of the home/property. Hope this helps.

 

[jj410]

No worries John. The state will not come after you or your sister. It is correct that it takes approximately three months for a Medical Assistance (MA) application to be approved or denied. If your mom is apprroved then all costs are covered forever. The only caveat to all of this is that by entering the MA program your mom will be agreeing to the estate recovery program. This means that upon her death her property must be sold and the proceeds paid to the state up to the amount that was spent on her care and this likely will exceed the value of the home/property. Hope this helps.

The state might not even bother to enforce the estate recovery program. Also, there are exemptions - for example, if a spouse or relative is still living there upon death of beneficiary. Rules and enforcement may vary by state.

 

[michnittlion]

Have there been any significant transfers of assets (financial or otherwise) between your mom and either you or your sister over the last five years?

This is a very important question to answer. As part of the Medicaid application process, they WILL look at transfers over the past five years, and CAN possibly (not necessarily) count those assets as still belonging to your Mom (even though they now do belong to you or your sister).

This is the so-called "Medicaid Look Back period for transfer of Assets." Important: this is only for transfers of assets from your mom to you --- anything you or your sister have always had as your own is 100% completely safe.

Anyway, if the answer to my first question is "yes", I'd seriously consider a local elder-law attorney, as Medicaid may want to "reclaim" those assets that were transferred to pay for your Mom's care. Some lawyers can find ways around this, but I certainly am not an expert in what those ways are.

FWIW, I've went through this same process over the last several years with my own Dad, who passed this past January. Fortunately, we had lots of lead-time w/ his Alzheimer's, so my Mom started transferring and gifting $$$ to my brothers and I starting in 2007 (that we just held onto, that $$$ is still my Mom's). Some of the $ was thus safe by the time we moved him to a nursing home and applied for Medicaid in November 2014. But not all of it --- any $ transferred after November 2009 Medicaid theoretically could have (and likely would have) gone after had my Dad lived longer.

Good luck and best wishes, none of this process is fun at all.

 

[Rutgers85]

I agree with Michnittlion to get an elder care attorney. I went through it with my father 6 years ago and it's a pain in the butt. If she has any assets, the attorney will be able to help you protect some of her money. For example, I paid for my father's funeral with his assets and that was protected from Medicaid. He lived in Florida at the time and each state may be different. If memory serves, his bank account had to be less than $2,500 every month to qualify for medicaid paying for the nursing home. God Bless.

 

[kgilbert78]

Do pay in advance for funeral expenses with her money as noted above. That's one thing Medicare will allow--they do not want to be responsible for this themselves. My wife did it for her aunt, who she had POA for--it still did not end up covering everything (some legal requirements for burials had changed, for example, causing an additional expense), but helped considerably.

 

[sluggo72]

Anyway, if the answer to my first question is "yes", I'd seriously consider a local elder-law attorney, as Medicaid may want to "reclaim" those assets that were transferred to pay for your Mom's care. Some lawyers can find ways around this, but I certainly am not an expert in what those ways are.

.

Better call Saul!!!!

 

[john4psu]

I truly appreciate all the info and advice everyone. Thank you.

No, she doesn't have any assets to speak of other then the contents of her apartment and there's been no transfer of assets between her and I nor do I believe there was any between her and my sister.

 

[kgilbert78]

I truly appreciate all the info and advice everyone. Thank you.

No, she doesn't have any assets to speak of other then the contents of her apartment and there's been no transfer of assets between her and I nor do I believe there was any between her and my sister.

Better look, though. The IRS will.

 

[gap401]

I agree with Michnittlion to get an elder care attorney. I went through it with my father 6 years ago and it's a pain in the butt. If she has any assets, the attorney will be able to help you protect some of her money. For example, I paid for my father's funeral with his assets and that was protected from Medicaid. He lived in Florida at the time and each state may be different. If memory serves, his bank account had to be less than $2,500 every month to qualify for medicaid paying for the nursing home. God Bless.

could you recommend a good elder care attorney in the State College area...really need one

 

[Rutgers85]

could you recommend a good elder care attorney in the State College area...really need one

Sorry but I don't know any in PA. I only dealt with the attorney in Florida.