OT: OK golfers thoughts on whether Matt Kuchar stiffed his caddie after winning...

[bwifan]

https://www.golf.com/news/2019/02/1...ll-in-caddie-breaks-silence-over-pay-dispute/

Win was worth $1.2 million to Kuchar he paid $5,000 for the local caddie initially and offered another $15,000 after the win with the caddie seeking $50,000. No tour golfers are going on record but saying it does not put them in a good light what Kuchar did/offered...

 

[kevina001]

I'd carry his bag every week for $5000/week.

 

[mlv5000]

From a Kuchar PR perspective, this is a nightmare.

A $3,000 weekly payment for a fill-in local caddie would widely be considered generous pay by Tour standards. The sticking point is the size of the bonus. A Tour caddie typically receives five percent of a player’s winnings, a higher percentage for a top-10 finish and 10 percent for a win. These arrangements are usually handshake deals.

The fact that these poor loopers work on handshake agreements is unreal. No way he gets 10% as the assigned fill-in, but Kuchar should do better.

That said, the extortion via media is a bad look for the caddie too. He likely won't be getting many jobs as a fill-in anymore.

 

[KnightSlayer]

I'd carry his bag every week for $5000/week.

So his normal caddie would have been paid a $120,000 bonus but, he gave the fill in caddie a $2,000 bonus. Yeah, that's a dick move.

 

[psuro]

Just ride golf carts. You don't have to pay them.

 

[razpsu]

So he was going to pay 5 but then won and gave him 15 more? The fill in caddie made 20k in four days. And he is complaining? Dear god!!!! Last loop he gets.

 

[kevina001]

So his normal caddie would have been paid a $120,000 bonus but, he gave the fill in caddie a $2,000 bonus. Yeah, that's a dick move.

His normal caddie presumably would have been providing a lot more value. My understanding is that this stand-in caddy was doing little more than carrying the bag. His normal caddy would be reading greens, giving yardages, club selection advice, etc.

 

[jferretti]

I'd carry his bag every week for $5000/week.

And you would be significantly underpaid relative to your peers. Factoring in your meal and travel costs you would be lucky to break even.

 

[BobPSU92]

“OK golfers thoughts on whether Matt Kuchar stiffed his caddie after winning...”

Please tell me this didn’t happen on the golf course.

 

[LionDeNittany]

So he was going to pay 5 but then won and gave him 15 more? The fill in caddie made 20k in four days. And he is complaining? Dear god!!!! Last loop he gets.

Kuchar made over a million in four days. What's your point?

Kuchar should have paid him something similar to what a typical caddy would make. Otherwise he has a problem.

LdN

 

[PSU0622]

So he was going to pay 5 but then won and gave him 15 more? The fill in caddie made 20k in four days. And he is complaining? Dear god!!!! Last loop he gets.

He was paid $5000 but went back and asked for more. That is when they offered the $15,000 which he said no to. If he was offered the $15k up front I doubt this is ever a story.

 

[MJG-90]

That's ridiculous. I don't want to spend the guy's money, but I hate bad tippers. My father in law is the worst. I don't know how many times I've snuck back to the table to throw down and extra $10-20 because he is too cheap to pay for service. Sounds like Kuchar is stiffing the guy based on the customary payment for a top 10 finish, let alone the victory.

 

[jferretti]

His normal caddie presumably would have been providing a lot more value. My understanding is that this stand-in caddy was doing little more than carrying the bag. His normal caddy would be reading greens, giving yardages, club selection advice, etc.

Incorrect to a degree. The stand-in caddy was a local and very familiar with the course. Kuchar credited him with the valuable local knowledge as part of the win. To pay the local guy 12% what he would have ordinarily paid his own caddie out of the winnings was a poor decision. Kuchar is very marketable and makes plenty of money off the course. Why he would jeopardize his long term prospects to save a little money in the short term is mystifying. Unforced error.

 

[bwifan]

Guess it comes down to "regular" caddie gets 10%... Kuchar won $1.25 million so normal cut would have been roughly $125,000 payment to the caddie.

"Substitute" caddie gets $5,000 up front. Kuchar wins and Kuchar offers another $15,000 as payment. Caddie emails his manager asking for a better payment ... roughly $50,000 or 5% of the winnings and half what his "regular" caddie would receive.

Question to me is what is the "normal" payment/protocol for this on the tour?

I see both sides sub caddie probably didn't have near the normal input as his regular so he gets less ... is 5% too much to pay a sub caddie?

 

[kevina001]

Another factor to consider is that caddies have a lot of travel costs going from tournament to tournament that are offset by what they are paid by the player. This guy was local and had none of that. He could have not had a job that week and made nothing. For him to turn down $20,000 and then go public with it is shameful.

 

[razpsu]

Should have offered 20k total but to ask and think you are going to get 50k is ridiculous. He should have taken the extra 15k. That is pride. Do any of us get what we want with pay? I never did. Kuchar should have given more. But not 50

 

[Erial_Lion]

While on the subject of tipping...friends and I hit a Super Bowl block pool for $100k at a bar/restaurant a few weeks ago. Bar doesn’t take any cut of it. How much would you tip them?

 

[bwifan]

While on the subject of tipping...friends and I hit a Super Bowl block pool for $100k at a bar/restaurant a few weeks ago. Bar doesn’t take any cut of it. How much would you tip them?

Nothing.... but I should get $10,000 for my time answering your question...

 

[delcoLion]

Guess it comes down to "regular" caddie gets 10%... Kuchar won $1.25 million so normal cut would have been roughly $125,000 payment to the caddie.

"Substitute" caddie gets $5,000 up front. Kuchar wins and Kuchar offers another $15,000 as payment. Caddie emails his manager asking for a better payment ... roughly $50,000 or 5% of the winnings and half what his "regular" caddie would receive.

Question to me is what is the "normal" payment/protocol for this on the tour?

I see both sides sub caddie probably didn't have near the normal input as his regular so he gets less ... is 5% too much to pay a sub caddie?

My info is very old but 5% is the minimum up to 10% for a victory. But most of the guys carrying for an established player like Kuchar are on salary, IIRC.

 

[bwifan]

My info is very old but 5% is the minimum up to 10% for a victory. But most of the guys carrying for an established player like Kuchar are on salary, IIRC.

Here is where we could use @MtNittany and his golf expertise... Hope he comes back at some point

 

[kevina001]

Yet another point to consider...my understanding is that this caddy doesn't speak English. So how much value, outside of carrying the bag, is he providing to Kuchar?

And is it possible that after 4 days with the guy, Kuchar just thought the guy was a dick? Based on how he handled this episode, I'd say that's very possible.

 

[bwifan]

Yet another point to consider...my understanding is that this caddy doesn't speak English. So how much value, outside of carrying the bag, is he providing to Kuchar?

And is it possible that after 4 days with the guy, Kuchar just thought the guy was a dick? Based on how he handled this episode, I'd say that's very possible.

If he did he certainly didn't give any inkling to it in his quotes...

In victory, Kuchar said of Ortiz, “He was definitely my lucky charm. He brought me good luck and certainly some extra crowd support and did a great job as well. He did just what I was hoping for and looking for.”

 

[bwifan]

Just some more info... Not sure if he leaked it to Gillis or not but Ortiz did not go public with it first. It does sound like he tried to work out something behind the scenes with Kuchar's manager.

The payment dispute became Tour fodder when Tom Gillis, a former Tour player, tweeted about it in January. Ortiz said he did not know how Gillis heard about it. He also said he was offended by some of the comments he read about the dispute. “I read, ‘That’s a lot of money, for a Mexican,’” referring to Gillis’s initial claim, that Ortiz was paid $3,000. But Ortiz also said he had read many supportive messages on social media.

 

[razpsu]

Ortiz had to of said something. That is ridiculous

 

[jferretti]

Yet another point to consider...my understanding is that this caddy doesn't speak English. So how much value, outside of carrying the bag, is he providing to Kuchar?

And is it possible that after 4 days with the guy, Kuchar just thought the guy was a dick? Based on how he handled this episode, I'd say that's very possible.

You seem to want to defend Kuchar and find fault with a guy none of us know. That's fine but the real point here IMO is the short-sighted effort to save a little money at the expense of the big picture. Mark Steinberg, super agent, should have fixed this quietly and fairly. Instead Kuchar's good guy image takes a hit and national golf writers like Bamberger take him to task. Again, unforced error.

 

[Marylovesthelions]

Maybe the caddy was the problem. Ritter way $20,000 fir 4 days seems fine. A real caddy does a lot more than carry the bag. Sometimes you are served by someone who is just your cup of tea. Who knows the situation?

 

[Thomas1945]

“ That’s a lot of money, for a Mexican “. El Chapo might disagree with that remark.

 

[baircub1!]

https://www.golf.com/news/2019/02/1...ll-in-caddie-breaks-silence-over-pay-dispute/

Win was worth $1.2 million to Kuchar he paid $5,000 for the local caddie initially and offered another $15,000 after the win with the caddie seeking $50,000. No tour golfers are going on record but saying it does not put them in a good light what Kuchar did/offered...

Kuchar always seemed like a solid guy on Tour...hope there is "more" to this story...if not...he has fallen off the "like" list...

 

[anon_1eeb2b426hv3y]

So his normal caddie would have been paid a $120,000 bonus but, he gave the fill in caddie a $2,000 bonus. Yeah, that's a dick move.

does seem a little light.

Souinds like the whole thing was handled badly. Caddie doesn't have much to stand on but the bad publicity isn't good for anyone.

 

[DandyDonII]

I think the biggest problem is that Kuchar only gave him the 2k bonus....That's just unbelievable bad form. Give the guy an extra 20k at the time and it's all good. 2k is a rounding error for someone like Kuchar whose winning totals have helped give him the moniker "the human atm"

 

[Mister Magoo]

While on the subject of tipping...friends and I hit a Super Bowl block pool for $100k at a bar/restaurant a few weeks ago. Bar doesn’t take any cut of it. How much would you tip them?

We are all patriots

 

[artsandletters]

Incorrect to a degree. The stand-in caddy was a local and very familiar with the course. Kuchar credited him with the valuable local knowledge as part of the win. To pay the local guy 12% what he would have ordinarily paid his own caddie out of the winnings was a poor decision. Kuchar is very marketable and makes plenty of money off the course. Why he would jeopardize his long term prospects to save a little money in the short term is mystifying. Unforced error.

Skechers (sp?) sales will plummet.

 

[bwifan]

Looking at it and reading more details normal PGA Tour protocol is sub caddies get $3,000 plus an agreed upon % of the winnings. Problem here is they didn't agree upon or have a contract with the % of winnings. Big mistake for both people. $5,000 payout by Kuchar is really bad form. (Especially for a guy who has won $46 million on the tour) The $50,000 payout the caddie would like is probably a touch high. Kuchar offers another $15,000 to make amends. Probably this whole thing never see's the light of day if Kuchar and the caddie settled around $35,000. Lesson for all pga tour members now is when using a sub caddie get everything agreed upon and if possible in writing ahead of time. That way their reputations don't take a big hit....

 

[KnightSlayer]

Looking at it and reading more details normal PGA Tour protocol is sub caddies get $3,000 plus an agreed upon % of the winnings. Problem here is they didn't agree upon or have a contract with the % of winnings. Big mistake for both people. $5,000 payout by Kuchar is really bad form. (Especially for a guy who has won $46 million on the tour) The $50,000 payout the caddie would like is probably a touch high. Kuchar offers another $15,000 to make amends. Probably this whole thing never see's the light of day if Kuchar and the caddie settled around $35,000. Lesson for all pga tour members now is when using a sub caddie get everything agreed upon and if possible in writing ahead of time. That way their reputations don't take a big hit....

The caddie claims Kuchar said he would give him an unspecified % of his winnings. The $2,000 was 15/100th of a percent. No wonder he didn't specify the percent before the tournament. $50,000 would have been less than 4% of his winnings.

 

[Obliviax]

Looking at it and reading more details normal PGA Tour protocol is sub caddies get $3,000 plus an agreed upon % of the winnings. Problem here is they didn't agree upon or have a contract with the % of winnings. Big mistake for both people. $5,000 payout by Kuchar is really bad form. (Especially for a guy who has won $46 million on the tour) The $50,000 payout the caddie would like is probably a touch high. Kuchar offers another $15,000 to make amends. Probably this whole thing never see's the light of day if Kuchar and the caddie settled around $35,000. Lesson for all pga tour members now is when using a sub caddie get everything agreed upon and if possible in writing ahead of time. That way their reputations don't take a big hit....

Dude is going to make $20m this year in winnings and endorsements this year. Forking up more cash for an assist in a win is in order. Plus, it is tax deductible so $50k is more like $30 after taxes. It is inconceivable that he let it get to this. Rich people's problems

 

[bkmtnittany1]

“OK golfers thoughts on whether Matt Kuchar stiffed his caddie after winning...”

Please tell me this didn’t happen on the golf course.

I have to tell you I am still chuckling!

 

[Uh Clem]

He absolutely stiffed his caddy. He should be ashamed of himself.

 

[Relayer]

Funny how when something like this happens, other stories start showing up about Kuchar. Case in point:

 

[LionDeNittany]

This guy was local and had none of that. He could have not had a job that week and made nothing.

I imagine this line of argument can be made for about one million different jobs a year.

My lawn guy wants $30 bucks this week? I offered him $8. After all, he could have not had a job and made nothing.

Fact is "pay" is based on what others with similar talents and skills make for the same work. Not what you would make if you had no work.

LdN

 

[razpsu]

I used to shovel sidewalks for 5 bucks. Corner lots. One guy made be shovel it perfectly and it was like a day after it Snowden sonit was hard to do. Still got 5 bucks. Dude got 5k and possibly 20 for four days of work. Get over it.

As far as the story from the 16 year old. I had members at my country club who were in there own world wouldn’t give us the time of day. I double caddied for 40 bucks and thought it was a million.