OT: Season Finale of 'Turn'. Any fans? (attn Tom McAndrew).....

[Grant Green]

I missed this show when it aired last season and I have been binge watching to catch up. I finally did just in time for the season finale.

The premise of this show fascinated me when I saw the ads (unfortunately I had already missed the first few episodes). The impact of spies during the Revolutionary War was unknown to me. I started reading about the Culper spy ring, but I had to stop for fear of spoiling the rest of the show.

I'm sure that the writers have taken liberties with the story and have invented fictional characters or changed real characters. I'm ok with that - it's entertainment. I'm really curious to find out what actually happened and what was embellished.

For history buff Tom McAndrew, I think you may enjoy this show. I know that you have a particular interest in the founding fathers and this show spends a fair bit of time on Washington and his involvement with this spy ring.

Looking forward to the finale tonight.

 

[Tom McAndrew]

I wrote about the show last year, when it first came out. The promos looked promising, so I arranged my scheduled to make sure i could watch the 1st show. While I did watch the entire 1st episode, it was painful to do so. I think I stopped counting after 10 inaccuracies in the first 15 minutes. I think I watched episodes 2 and 3, but gave up after that.

In the show's defense, I think it does a nice job of introducing those that are not Rev War fanatics about what like was like during the period, and how some aspects of the war were conducted. Both sides were actively involved in spying. As I recall, the show focuses on spying that took place on Long Island and in NYC after the British set NYC up as their basis for operations after they abandoned Boston. I believe the show claims that this was the 1st American spy ring in the Rev War, but it was either the 3rd or 4th (and there may have been more -- spy rings are, by their nature, designed to be secret). There were spy rings in the Boston area that predated the NYC ring.

I hope that you learned a great deal from the show. The Rev War, like most wars, was pretty brutal. There were a lot of folks in the Colonies that were in favor of the British, and many that had no interest in supporting either side. The Continental Congress was dysfunctional for large parts of the Rev War, and had no way to raise money other than to ask each individual State for money (and most requests were ignored, or were only partially met). The colonialists were facing the most powerful country in the World (though one that was somewhat short of funds). It's still a wonder to me that the Colonies were able to win the Rev War.

 

[Grant Green]

I wrote about the show last year, when it first came out. The promos looked promising, so I arranged my scheduled to make sure i could watch the 1st show. While I did watch the entire 1st episode, it was painful to do so. I think I stopped counting after 10 inaccuracies in the first 15 minutes. I think I watched episodes 2 and 3, but gave up after that.

In the show's defense, I think it does a nice job of introducing those that are not Rev War fanatics about what like was like during the period, and how some aspects of the war were conducted. Both sides were actively involved in spying. As I recall, the show focuses on spying that took place on Long Island and in NYC after the British set NYC up as their basis for operations after they abandoned Boston. I believe the show claims that this was the 1st American spy ring in the Rev War, but it was either the 3rd or 4th (and there may have been more -- spy rings are, by their nature, designed to be secret). There were spy rings in the Boston area that predated the NYC ring.

I hope that you learned a great deal from the show. The Rev War, like most wars, was pretty brutal. There were a lot of folks in the Colonies that were in favor of the British, and many that had no interest in supporting either side. The Continental Congress was dysfunctional for large parts of the Rev War, and had no way to raise money other than to ask each individual State for money (and most requests were ignored, or were only partially met). The colonialists were facing the most powerful country in the World (though one that was somewhat short of funds). It's still a wonder to me that the Colonies were able to win the Rev War.

I kind of feared that inaccuracy part. I can tell that the writers are taking liberties. I was just hoping that it was nothing significant. I'm not sure if they claimed this was the first spy ring, but there are parts where GW is reviewing various pieces of intelligence from other sources. They seem to infer that there are other spies, but that the Culper ring is more accurate and significant.

It is interesting that in grade/middle school, the history is presented that the whole country was behind this war (at least from my memory). I didn't learn until I was much older that this was not the case at all. I think the HBO mini series on John Adams did a good job making this clear.
It is still a wonder that we won that war. However, it never would have happened without France. We may have saved their ass in WW2, but without them, our history would be much different.

 

[Tom McAndrew]

It is still a wonder that we won that war. However, it never would have happened without France. We may have saved their ass in WW2, but without them, our history would be much different.

100% correct. The French support was inconsistent at times, but without it I don't see how the colonists would have won.

 

[SEPATOPTEN]

I kind of feared that inaccuracy part. I can tell that the writers are taking liberties. I was just hoping that it was nothing significant. I'm not sure if they claimed this was the first spy ring, but there are parts where GW is reviewing various pieces of intelligence from other sources. They seem to infer that there are other spies, but that the Culper ring is more accurate and significant.

It is interesting that in grade/middle school, the history is presented that the whole country was behind this war (at least from my memory). I didn't learn until I was much older that this was not the case at all. I think the HBO mini series on John Adams did a good job making this clear.
It is still a wonder that we won that war. However, it never would have happened without France. We may have saved their ass in WW2, but without them, our history would be much different.

I have often said : "Without France during the Revolutionary war we would all be speaking English".

 

[SEPATOPTEN]

Love turn. I also like the Vikings and the Musketeers. Was watching Sleepy Hollow last year but it got hokey in my opinion. Turn is probably my favorite.

 

[androcles]

100% correct. The French support was inconsistent at times, but without it I don't see how the colonists would have won.

 

[androcles]

...interestingly, General Benedict Arnold was never prosecuted for his treachery...but went back to England as a British hero...

 

[Michael.Felli]

I, too, have always been amazed at our "victory".

IMO, I think the British had a difficult time accepting our intent to become a new nation. I wonder how seriously British high command took us. And, how difficult it was for their soldiers to fight us. The Colonists were considered to be like "cousins" of the British.

I truly believe that the British felt that after a few scurmishes that the revolt would've "put down". The fact that it wasn't, changed everything.

I am more amazed that the 13 Colonies actually came to UNANIMOUS agreement to sign the Declaration even after intense deliberation.

 

[Michael.Felli]

As an aside, I would have loved to be in some of the local pubs in Philly, or at dinner, during that time, istening to the delegates discuss their vision of the future for the Colonies.

 

[Hotshoe]

It was not a pretty time. Much like the Civil War, things changed over time. However, there was a true hatred for the British which had been building for years. It affected everyone from Washington to the common man.

Once the British arrived and occupied whole towns and people's homes the hatred became much greater. Americans from early on were cut from a different cloth. The majority of folks with anything in common were the leaders of the community who had a vested interest in keeping a King.