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OT: Was in jury selection for a murder trial yesterday.

LionJim

LionJim

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Oct 8, 2003
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Levittown, PA to Olney, MD
Retrial after a hung jury. There were 91 of us in the pool; I was #70. Since my sister is a retired cop in our jurisdiction, I was fairly confident that I'd be waived by the defense, but as potential jurors kept being dismissed and the juror's numbers kept inching up, I started sweating. The final alternate juror's number: #69. (I've said on this board many times that I've lived a charmed life and then this happens.) I need to be in Bethany Beach today to sign a lease, so being called would have really complicated things.

Interesting thing: the judge heard about thirty people asking that they be waived from service due to the length of the trial and he approved not a single appeal. I'm glad I didn't get up and ask to be dismissed because I've got to be in Bethany Beach today; he would have laughed at me, probably.

It's big business, the criminal justice system.
 
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LionJim said:
Retrial after a hung jury. There were 91 of us in the pool; I was #70. Since my sister is a retired cop in our jurisdiction, I was fairly confident that I'd be waived by the defense, but as potential jurors kept being dismissed and the juror's numbers kept inching up, I started sweating. The final alternate juror's number: #69. (I've said on this board many times that I've lived a charmed life and then this happens.) I need to be in Bethany Beach today to sign a lease, so being called would have really complicated things.

Interesting thing: the judge heard about thirty people asking that they be waived from service due to the length of the trial and he approved not a single appeal. I'm glad I didn't get up and ask to be dismissed because I've got to be in Bethany Beach today; he would have laughed at me, probably.

It's big business, the criminal justice system.
Click to expand...

I'm surprised the Judge heard that many people and denied them. In NYC the standard technique was to pretend you don't speak English listen to the Judge yell a little and then get waived.

LdN
 
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LionDeNittany said:
I'm surprised the Judge heard that many people and denied them. In NYC the standard technique was to pretend you don't speak English listen to the Judge yell a little and then get waived.

LdN
Click to expand...
There was one Asian woman who said she was worried her English wasn't up to snuff for something this serious. He explained that he thought she'd be perfectly okay.
 
psuro said:
"Fry the son of a bitch."

The six words that, with the exception of when you are in the Monarchy of Texas, will get you out of being in a jury.
Click to expand...
Citizens, my ass. I hear, see, and read about people lying, cheating, and scamming to get out of civic duty. I also hear how dumb juries are when outcomes aren't what the preconceived notion was in a case. Easy fix. Do your civic duty. I've been on 3 juries. DUI and civil suit in Lehigh County, and a bid rigging case in Federal Court in Philadelphia.
 
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EPC FAN said:
Citizens, my ass. I hear, see, and read about people lying, cheating, and scamming to get out of civic duty. I also hear how dumb juries are when outcomes aren't what the preconceived notion was in a case. Easy fix. Do your civic duty. I've been on 3 juries. DUI and civil suit in Lehigh County, and a bid rigging case in Federal Court in Philadelphia.
Click to expand...
^^^^THIS^^^^
I've never tried to get out of jury duty, and have actually been selected for juries both times I've been called.
Think about it this way.....if, God forbid, you're ever the one sitting at that defendants table, who do you want to be judged by? The guy who is gainfully employed, has obligations, has his shit together? Or the guy who wants to get picked because the 35 bucks a day he gets will be the highlight of his day?
Being related to a cop isn't an automatic dismissal anymore. My dad was a cop and I've been picked both times I appeared.
 
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Last time I was called in for jury duty, I was juror #2, and was selected for a medical mal-practice case. The case ended up being settled out of court the day before it was to go to trial.
 
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Been called for jury duty 6 or 7 times in my 25 years eligible. Never heard of anybody more than that. Only actually set foot in the court room for one of those times as all others there were no cases or I had moved and was no longer in that jurisdiction (was called 4 times between the ages of 18-23). When I did get to the courtroom for a federal case, I had a business trip to Europe the following week, so both lawyers said I could be dismissed.
 
Mrs KG would not register to vote for a few years so she wouldn't get called in for jury duty. The result? She got called anyway. I think she's gotten called 5-6 times and served once. I've never been called. Go figure.
 
LionJim said:
Retrial after a hung jury. There were 91 of us in the pool; I was #70. Since my sister is a retired cop in our jurisdiction, I was fairly confident that I'd be waived by the defense, but as potential jurors kept being dismissed and the juror's numbers kept inching up, I started sweating. The final alternate juror's number: #69. (I've said on this board many times that I've lived a charmed life and then this happens.) I need to be in Bethany Beach today to sign a lease, so being called would have really complicated things.

Interesting thing: the judge heard about thirty people asking that they be waived from service due to the length of the trial and he approved not a single appeal. I'm glad I didn't get up and ask to be dismissed because I've got to be in Bethany Beach today; he would have laughed at me, probably.

It's big business, the criminal justice system.
Click to expand...
Should have said your tag name is Mack Daddy on BWI,, but that might have had the FBI looking into your matters.
 
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I'd hate to give up the time, but would do it because of the civic duty correctly mentioned by several people here. However, I never get farther than filling out the pre-selection survey because many moons ago I was held up at gun point at my place of employment at the time. At least I assume that's why I never get called in.

Would that incident influence my impartiality? Maybe, although I'd like to say no. But it might. They caught the guy but it never went farther than his arraignment due to a procedural error that the police never did explain to me.
 
Since I do not believe in our jury system I am always dismissed. Sometimes it takes a while for THAT question to be asked - "Is there any other reason you do not feel you should be on this jury". Then it happens :)
 
psuro said:
"Fry the son of a bitch."

The six words that, with the exception of when you are in the Monarchy of Texas, will get you out of being in a jury.
Click to expand...
Similar to my response when asked by the Defense Attorney - what do you think of the Death Penalty I said "I am all for it" followed by him saying "I would like to excuse this juror". I would hate to be judged by people not smart enough to get out of jury duty.
 
I was the defendant in a murder trial yesterday and, despite my innocence, I was worried. Then I saw a man I knew to be LionJim in the jury pool and I felt a weight lifted from my shoulders. I was sure I would get a "fair" shake from LionJim. Later in the day I found out he was not called. Do they have computers in prison? :confused:

;)
 
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psuro said:
"Fry the son of a bitch."

The six words that, with the exception of when you are in the Monarchy of Texas, will get you out of being in a jury.
Click to expand...

I have a story for you. I was on a jury which tried a murder case 40 years ago in Philadelphia. The black jurors on that jury, older people who must have gone through the worst of the segregated era, were the ones asking to "fry the SOB".

Times have changed.
 
fairgambit said:
I was the defendant in a murder trial yesterday and, despite my innocence, I was worried. Then I saw a man I knew to LionJim in the jury pool and I felt a weight lifted from my shoulders. I knew I would get a "fair" shake from LionJim. Later in the day I found out he was not called. Do they have computers in prison? :confused:

;)
Click to expand...
I think you are going to find out if "hot dogs" lead to anal cancer :eek:
 
Having been selected for both Jury and Grand Jury pools in Philadelphia I have a new found outlook on our judicial system and it isn't good. It's clear, barely anyone wants to be there and will make any excuse to get out of jury duty. There are definitely some wackos. I was never selected but I would've happily served at least for the expereince. I hope I never have my life in the hands of a jury. They don't have a goal of providing a fair outcome. These people just want to get outta there as fast as they can. Which I can't entirely blame them for.

To me it's pretty clear there needs to be a better way to "a right to a trial by a jury of your peers" in this country.
 
psualumni2002 said:
Having been selected for both Jury and Grand Jury pools in Philadelphia I have a new found outlook on our judicial system and it isn't good. It's clear, barely anyone wants to be there and will make any excuse to get out of jury duty. There are definitely some wackos. I was never selected but I would've happily served at least for the expereince. I hope I never have my life in the hands of a jury. They don't have a goal of providing a fair outcome. These people just want to get outta there as fast as they can. Which I can't entirely blame them for.

To me it's pretty clear there needs to be a better way to "a right to a trial by a jury of your peers" in this country.
Click to expand...
Let people watch in online and participate as reality tv, they couldn't sign up fast enough.
 
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LionJim said:
It's big business, the criminal justice system.
Click to expand...

The criminal system is huge business. We spend lots of money sending people to jail and tons of people profit from it. Still, it is better than most systems.
 
psualumni2002 said:
Having been selected for both Jury and Grand Jury pools in Philadelphia I have a new found outlook on our judicial system and it isn't good. It's clear, barely anyone wants to be there and will make any excuse to get out of jury duty. There are definitely some wackos. I was never selected but I would've happily served at least for the expereince. I hope I never have my life in the hands of a jury. They don't have a goal of providing a fair outcome. These people just want to get outta there as fast as they can. Which I can't entirely blame them for.

To me it's pretty clear there needs to be a better way to "a right to a trial by a jury of your peers" in this country.
Click to expand...
It has its flaws, but there is no better system of criminal justice in the world.
 
I am an attorney and have the opportunity to select juries every now and then. Most judges are pretty wise to the tricks employed by jurors to be excused. I don't speak English well, I can't miss work, I have pre-paid travel etc. If the judges excused the jurors we would have no one on the jury. I saw a judge in LA keep a USC PhD student, who was a single parent, not he jury despite the fact that she had 2 finals in the next few days and was solely responsible for watching her young child. Neither side wanted to use a peremptory challenge on her and then both forgot about her and she ended up on the panel and burst into tears. Both sides asked the judge for her to be excused andan alternate to take her place. Judge said no. The stories go on and on.

As a defense lawyer, 99% of the people trying to get excused are people I want on the jury. I can't tell you how many times I have lost my favorite jurors for what I knew were BS excused.

In CA attorneys are also called for jury duty. I have been called 3-4 times in the last few years. But I have never been selected. I came close in a case involving racing at night on a local SD highway. But I don't think the defense attorney wanted rule followers on the jury.

Say what you want about the jury system. It has its drawbacks. It is not perfect. There are crazy results like OJ going free or the recent PSU cases. But there is no better court system in the world.
 
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LionJim said:
Retrial after a hung jury. There were 91 of us in the pool; I was #70. Since my sister is a retired cop in our jurisdiction, I was fairly confident that I'd be waived by the defense, but as potential jurors kept being dismissed and the juror's numbers kept inching up, I started sweating. The final alternate juror's number: #69. (I've said on this board many times that I've lived a charmed life and then this happens.) I need to be in Bethany Beach today to sign a lease, so being called would have really complicated things.

Interesting thing: the judge heard about thirty people asking that they be waived from service due to the length of the trial and he approved not a single appeal. I'm glad I didn't get up and ask to be dismissed because I've got to be in Bethany Beach today; he would have laughed at me, probably.

It's big business, the criminal justice system.
Click to expand...
My brother was on a Federal Grand Jury investigating Mafia influence in Atlantic City. For over two years, on and off, he was in Philadelphia. It was nerve wracking, and it helped destroy his health. The stress and nerves over what he saw and heard, changed him forever. He did hear the names, Nicky Scarfo, Jackie "Chicken Man"Testa, Angelo Bruno.
One other note. My second cousin married Angelo Bruno's granddaughter. Reception was in the ballroom of the Bellevue Stratford Hotel. Huge wedding. After a while, cousin was a doctor, he cheated on her. One night he answered the door and was punched straight in the face. He got a beating and a warning to leave Philadelphia. He ended up in Kansas City, where he practiced until passing away last year.
 
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The whole system breaks down, and we get what we deserve, when people don't take an oath seriously. In my jurisdiction jurors are sworn before selection. If they are coming up with B.S. excuses chances are they are violating their oath.
 
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I don't have an alternative, but it seems to me that forced jury duty is wrong. People lose lots of money doing it. I know a guy who did a 6 month grand jury and it cost him thousands in lost wages. My son recently did a week and was going to work every evening after court trying to keep up with his work.
 
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mjh218 said:
I am an attorney and have the opportunity to select juries every now and then. Most judges are pretty wise to the tricks employed by jurors to be excused. I don't speak English well, I can't miss work, I have pre-paid travel etc. If the judges excused the jurors we would have no one on the jury. I saw a judge in LA keep a USC PhD student, who was a single parent, not he jury despite the fact that she had 2 finals in the next few days and was solely responsible for watching her young child. Neither side wanted to use a peremptory challenge on her and then both forgot about her and she ended up on the panel and burst into tears. Both sides asked the judge for her to be excused andan alternate to take her place. Judge said no. The stories go on and on.

As a defense lawyer, 99% of the people trying to get excused are people I want on the jury. I can't tell you how many times I have lost my favorite jurors for what I knew were BS excused.

In CA attorneys are also called for jury duty. I have been called 3-4 times in the last few years. But I have never been selected. I came close in a case involving racing at night on a local SD highway. But I don't think the defense attorney wanted rule followers on the jury.

Say what you want about the jury system. It has its drawbacks. It is not perfect. There are crazy results like OJ going free or the recent PSU cases. But there is no better court system in the world.
Click to expand...

You mentioned being called for jury duty as an attorney. A year or two ago I was called in Allegheny County (Pittsburgh). As I walked in I noticed a female Common Pleas Court Judge who had also been called. I was there most of the day before being told I was not needed. She was there nearly as long. There have been a couple of instances over the 40+ years I have been in practice when a Judge actually served on the Jury.
 
EPC FAN said:
My brother was on a Federal Grand Jury investigating Mafia influence in Atlantic City. For over two years, on and off, he was in Philadelphia. It was nerve wracking, and it helped destroy his health. The stress and nerves over what he saw and heard, changed him forever. He did hear the names, Nicky Scarfo, Jackie "Chicken Man"Testa, Angelo Bruno.
One other note. My second cousin married Angelo Bruno's granddaughter. Reception was in the ballroom of the Bellevue Stratford Hotel. Huge wedding. After a while, cousin was a doctor, he cheated on her. One night he answered the door and was punched straight in the face. He got a beating and a warning to leave Philadelphia. He ended up in Kansas City, where he practiced until passing away last year.
Click to expand...
It's Phil Testa. Good story.
 
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BBG65 said:
I don't have an alternative, but it seems to me that forced jury duty is wrong. People lose lots of money doing it. I know a guy who did a 6 month grand jury and it cost him thousands in lost wages. My son recently did a week and was going to work every evening after court trying to keep up with his work.
Click to expand...
Your problem is not with the system. It is with employers. Either they want engaged citizens involved in the system, or they don't. Hell, there are special tax deals for companies, all over the code. Why not one for companies who pay their employees to be good citizens?
 
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BBG65 said:
I don't have an alternative, but it seems to me that forced jury duty is wrong. People lose lots of money doing it. I know a guy who did a 6 month grand jury and it cost him thousands in lost wages. My son recently did a week and was going to work every evening after court trying to keep up with his work.
Click to expand...

Yours is a distressing post, and I know your feelings are shared by many. I don't have the time to get into a lengthy debate about this, but let me just say that some things are more important than money.
 
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I've been selected twice and served twice. The first time, in Maryland, we convicted the guy for breaking into an apartment and stealing a stereo. The second time was here in the Chicago area. This one was very interesting. I forget all the details, but the defendant was a real wacko. He said he heard voices of aliens who told him to approach young men and that he would gain power or energy by drinking their semen. He was never actually caught molesting anyone, but was arrested for trying to lure a high school kid away from a school. Anyway, apparently Illinois (or maybe my county?) has some sort of provision where they can involuntarily commit someone like this to a mental health facility. This was the first time they tried to do that before the person was convicted of a crime. Needless to say, we did send the guy away.

What's even better is, he defended himself. I have a lot of respect for the judge because he had to allow the guy a fair trial, but also keep him in line as far as courtroom procedures, asking questions of witnesses rather than making speeches, etc. It was very difficult.

Anyway, my point in all this is that I would never pass up jury duty. I found it very interesting both times I served.
 
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BBG65 said:
I don't have an alternative, but it seems to me that forced jury duty is wrong. People lose lots of money doing it. I know a guy who did a 6 month grand jury and it cost him thousands in lost wages. My son recently did a week and was going to work every evening after court trying to keep up with his work.
Click to expand...

The alternative that you are looking for is professional juries.
 
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EPC FAN said:
You're right. I grew up in NEPA with a guy named Jackie Testa. Brain cramp. I'm getting old.
Click to expand...
I went to Villanova with Phil's daughter, Maria. My girlfriend and I, a South Philly guy and Maria had lunch together on campus a few times. I was the only 'medigan'. She was nice but I knew better than to ask questions. This was well before Phil's murder. After Bruno was murdered, there was a bloodbath in South Philly. I think 17 of the guys were murdered in the ensuing few years. Scarfo came out on top.
 
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