OT: What do you think of Jay's ideas for improving downtown SC?

[Class of 67]

I've been to the Charlottesville pedestrian mall downtown, and it is indeed a people friendly asset. For sure, tear down Hammond Bldg and open campus to College Ave with any number of improvements/attractions.

http://www.statecollege.com/news/columns/downtown-dreams-could-it-be-arts-fest-every-day,1464721/

 

[Peetz Pool Boy]

I've been to the Charlottesville pedestrian mall downtown, and it is indeed a people friendly asset. For sure, tear down Hammond Bldg and open campus to College Ave with any number of improvements/attractions.

http://www.statecollege.com/news/columns/downtown-dreams-could-it-be-arts-fest-every-day,1464721/

Call me jaundiced, but my guess is that either Jay or the "Paterno Estate" own a conveniently-located property In close proximity to his mall of vision.

 

[manatree]

It's not Jay's idea. This idea has been kicked around since the 1970's and possible earlier. What every version of this idea fails to solve is the delivery trucks needed to stock the stores downtown in an alrady overcrowded traffic pattern.

 

[kgilbert78]

It's not Jay's idea. This idea has been kicked around since the 1970's and possible earlier. What every version of this idea fails to solve is the delivery trucks needed to stock the stores downtown in an alrady overcrowded traffic pattern.

That's what the alleys are supposed to be for--but they built shops on the alley.

 

[cvilleelkscoach]

As an Allen street property owner, I hate the idea. Yes it has been around since the Alpha fire department use to hold their 4th of July carnaval in the 100 block of Allen. It would just impact traffic too much. With all the high rise buildings going up which will introduce even more cars, no thanks.

 

[ForesterGump]

I was in Eugene, OR decades ago, and they had a similar area. They had an area of 2 blocks by 3 blocks that were bricked in, and it was basically a mall area. There were shops and outdoor vendors, if I recall. They also had diagonal parking and there weren't as many cars back then.

Seems to me that once you get off of College, business doesn't run too much past Calder to warrant shutting down streets to make a mall. There's some on Beaver, but not nearly the number as is on College. Heister is another area that could be interesting. There are a few good eateries in the area, and the mural. Other than that, there isn't much.

Don't they close off Locust for a Farmer's Market? That was pretty cool when I walked through it. That area is a less used street and has no other businesses that outdoor vendors can interfere with. I think Allen is too important to traffic flow to make into a mall. Good idea, wrong place.

 

[Raffycorn]

I've heard the idea of closing off Allen Street for a while now, but from an urban planning perspective I'm not sure if it's the most effective way to use that street. The example Jay references in Charlottesville is, from what I recall from my visit there years ago, is the main stretch of bars and restaurants in town; in State College, the nightlife and restaurants are spread further apart. Allen from College to Beaver isn't the Main Street in town, and the foot traffic is spread throughout a pretty lengthy cluster of streets. For these spaces to work most effectively, studies actually suggest all modes of transportation working together in the same space - cars, bikes, mass transit, and pedestrians. With Allen, mass transit probably won't work, but people tend to use spaces more if cars use them, too. Now, I'd be in favor of restricting the on-street parking and narrowing the street to do some of the things Jay suggested - allowing more sidewalk eating space at Pickles and allowing more space for community activities by widening the sidewalks - but I'm not sure if making it pedestrian only is the best idea.

As far as Hammond, I'm all for tearing that eyesore down - but I don't like Jay's idea of Penn State turning that valuable real estate into a community bandstand of sorts. A better idea, I think, would be something similar to what Carnegie Mellon University is doing currently with its Tepper Quad project for its business school - turning the space that Hammond occupied (and maybe some of the parking lot behind it) into a modern engineering facility and quad would be a tremendous boon to Penn State's engineering program, and you could make it fit architecturally into the rest of campus much better than Hammond does - like PSU did with the recently completed Biobehavioral Health building.

 

[chrisrn1965]

I've been to the Charlottesville pedestrian mall downtown, and it is indeed a people friendly asset. For sure, tear down Hammond Bldg and open campus to College Ave with any number of improvements/attractions.

http://www.statecollege.com/news/columns/downtown-dreams-could-it-be-arts-fest-every-day,1464721/

I don't know about closing off Allen Street but I am definitely in favor of tearing down the Hammond building. It is ugly and does not match the architecture around it. A world class College of engineering deserves better.

 

[kgilbert78]

Always wondered if the urban legend about Hammond was true--that it was originally a 9 story building but the ground could not support the weight so it was separated into 3, three story buildings, which is why the entries and stair connections are so odd.

 

[Obliviax]

Personally, I like the idea of tearing down Hammond and opening that area up. I like the outdoor concert space idea. I can see protests (Demlion???) and sporting rallies there. I can see using that for vendor displays, blue band, other music, Shakespearian plays, overflow food (on game days).... It would be a great way to draw people to the area which would result in them walking into the city (which would help the economy).

I love walking down college avenue and it creates a nice game day experience. I am not sure blocking off a street, like has been done in Minneapolis and many areas, is the ticket here. I'd like a long term study done on traffic patters. Traffic is a nightmare in SC on game days. I know that's only a handful of days so perhaps it isn't in the best interest to build "game day" infrastructure ROI wise. If you create a nice "green space" or courtyard where Hammond currently is, you can both open it up and create a nice touristy area. Perhaps a walkway to the city over or under college avenue..

Overall, PSU and the city need to work together to a) create and maintain infrastructure on game days and b) create other venues to even out the visitor volumes on non-game days.

 

[mn78psu83]

Personally, I like the idea of tearing down Hammond and opening that area up. I like the outdoor concert space idea. I can see protests (Demlion???) and sporting rallies there. I can see using that for vendor displays, blue band, other music, Shakespearian plays, overflow food (on game days).... It would be a great way to draw people to the area which would result in them walking into the city (which would help the economy).

I love walking down college avenue and it creates a nice game day experience. I am not sure blocking off a street, like has been done in Minneapolis and many areas, is the ticket here. I'd like a long term study done on traffic patters. Traffic is a nightmare in SC on game days. I know that's only a handful of days so perhaps it isn't in the best interest to build "game day" infrastructure ROI wise. If you create a nice "green space" or courtyard where Hammond currently is, you can both open it up and create a nice touristy area. Perhaps a walkway to the city over or under college avenue..

Overall, PSU and the city need to work together to a) create and maintain infrastructure on game days and b) create other venues to even out the visitor volumes on non-game days.

I like the outdoor concert space idea. I can see protests (Demlion???) and sporting rallies there.

I'm sold on it.

 

[psuro]

I am currently working on a project in a small college town in NJ, where an open space is bridging the college campus and the "town". The proposed design includes some of the same features Jay mentioned in his article.

 

[BobPSU92]

I'm torn since I have always blamed Jay for the current layout.

 

[manatree]

That's what the alleys are supposed to be for--but they built shops on the alley.

The alleys are to small to handle the trucks, with or without the shops on the alleys.

 

[jerseylion109]

im a big fan of all of jays ideas. Hammond building is hideous and blocks off campus from downtown in that area. I also like the idea of the "bandstand" type are for ice rinks and concerts etc. Downtown needs something like that imo. As for closing off allen street, I agree that there would need to be more bars/nightlife on allen street for it to make sense.

 

[CF LION]

I'm all for doing something to improve connectivity between campus and College Ave along dreary Hammond Building. The building is simply imposing and blocks all views between town and gown. There is a lot of classroom space you'd need to replace, however, and some of it is of the high cost engineering lab type space. This would not be an inexpensive proposition.

Converting city streets to pedestrian malls was a city planning fad in the '70s' and has been a monumental failure in almost every city that tried it. Many cities that tried this have converted the streets back to vehicular roadways. That being said, closing off the short section of Allen Street between College and Beaver to vehicles might be OK. Most patrons of the businesses there are likely on foot having parked along College or Beaver Ave or in one of the garages nearby.

 

[jerseylion109]

on a similar note...what is that building above canyon pizza and why has it been able to look that way for years and years. its basically a building with boarded up wood. time to tear it down SC

 

[psudukie]

Possible run for mayor?

 

[novaclassof90]

Could do what Austin, TX does on w/e nights. They just shut down a good part of 6th Ave. to vehicle traffic using temporary barriers and it becomes a pedestrian block.

 

[JR4PSU]

I've been to the Charlottesville pedestrian mall downtown, and it is indeed a people friendly asset. For sure, tear down Hammond Bldg and open campus to College Ave with any number of improvements/attractions.

http://www.statecollege.com/news/columns/downtown-dreams-could-it-be-arts-fest-every-day,1464721/

I do like the idea of tearing down Hammond bldg. Issue will be where to relocate all the engineering labs. Build a new bldg somewhere else on campus?

 

[manatree]

Penn State used to have an open air theater between Old Main lawn & College Ave. The idea was floated around to include an amphitheater as part of the most recent expansion but the idea was quickly nixed by folks in State College as being a noise nuisance, which is one of the reasons that Movin' On was moved away from the HUB lawn.

 

[jerseylion109]

noise nuisance at 7pm on a Saturday night....that's state college for ya

 

[71camaro]

Penn State used to have an open air theater between Old Main lawn & College Ave. The idea was floated around to include an amphitheater as part of the most recent expansion but the idea was quickly nixed by folks in State College as being a noise nuisance, which is one of the reasons that Movin' On was moved away from the HUB lawn.

Movin On was moved away from HUB Lawn because that's been a construction site for 5 years.

 

[NittanyAmerica]

Who's really behind these ideas?

N i t t a n y A m e r i c a

 

[NittPicker]

I'm not an urban planner but

Converting city streets to pedestrian malls was a city planning fad in the '70s' and has been a monumental failure in almost every city that tried it. Many cities that tried this have converted the streets back to vehicular roadways. That being said, closing off the short section of Allen Street between College and Beaver to vehicles might be OK. Most patrons of the businesses there are likely on foot having parked along College or Beaver Ave or in one of the garages nearby.

The key to making it successful is doing it where there is a lot of pedestrian traffic, as you pointed out. Many of the cities which gave up on the plan likely had a "build it and they will come" attitude but nobody was going to make a special trip just to walk around. Downtown State College is unique in that there is already a lot of pedestrian traffic. The attitude should be "build it if they are already there". The concept could be successful on Allen Street if it's done right. The trick is hiring people who know what they're doing and keeping the politicians out of it.

 

[john4psu]

I've been to Charlottesville and the pedestrian mall is really nice.

I made a trip to Happy Valley (my inland happy place) on Saturday as I missed the place and football is over a month away, an ice cream run, etc., and I could walk around without worrying about time or crowds.

It seemed to me that the college and the continued erection of buildings (like Schreyer's Honors College) is encroaching upon town more and more. It felt like losing space particularly open green space. Let's face it Penn State has been big for a long time it just seems every time I visit another building is going up and State College is losing some of its old-time quaintness and charm.

 

[kgilbert78]

I'm all for doing something to improve connectivity between campus and College Ave along dreary Hammond Building. The building is simply imposing and blocks all views between town and gown. There is a lot of classroom space you'd need to replace, however, and some of it is of the high cost engineering lab type space. This would not be an inexpensive proposition.

Converting city streets to pedestrian malls was a city planning fad in the '70s' and has been a monumental failure in almost every city that tried it. Many cities that tried this have converted the streets back to vehicular roadways. That being said, closing off the short section of Allen Street between College and Beaver to vehicles might be OK. Most patrons of the businesses there are likely on foot having parked along College or Beaver Ave or in one of the garages nearby.

It works quite well in Europe. Of course they are not quite so auto-bound as most US cities.

One answer to the truck problem is that restocking is done at night or early in the morning. Trucks are allowed in the pedestrian areas at those times.

 

[manatree]

I've been to Charlottesville and the pedestrian mall is really nice.

I made a trip to Happy Valley (my inland happy place) on Saturday as I missed the place and football is over a month away, an ice cream run, etc., and I could walk around without worrying about time or crowds.

It seemed to me that the college and the continued erection of buildings (like Schreyer's Honors College) is encroaching upon town more and more. It felt like losing space particularly open green space. Let's face it Penn State has been big for a long time it just seems every time I visit another building is going up and State College is losing some of its old-time quaintness and charm.

Considering that Atherton Hall, the building that houses the Schreyer's Honors College, was built in 1939, you might want to use a different example.

 

[manatree]

Movin On was moved away from HUB Lawn because that's been a construction site for 5 years.

Movin' On moved off HUB lawn in 2010 or 2011. The recent HUB construction didn't start until 2013. Noise complaints was one of the factors in the move.