Penn State vs. Maryland - Monday, Feb. 22 (6 PM) - BTN

[dmm53]

Wrestle Stat has it as a 41-0 win. It should be a slaughter and a possible shutout.

Any matches that might be close? Any interesting story lines?

Maryland is 0-7 this year. Their two best guys might be at 157 (Doetsch) and 184 (Cochran), where they have 2-2 and 4-4 records, respectively. Doetsch lost a close one to tOSU's Cleary (4-3). Cochran lost close matches (4-2 and 4-2) to Venz and Jordan.

I suspect that if Bartlett goes at 149, he will be at Big Tens.

Hopefully, there will some extra matches. Those could be valuable given Covid contingencies and injury possibilities before Big Tens.

Monday's match is followed up by "Super Tuesday" at the NLWC: Nolf, V.J., Taylor, Nickal, Zain, and more (Snyder, Gilman, Dake, Dean, Yianni etc.)

WrestleStat | Dual Compare Penn State vs Maryland

www.wrestlestat.com

 

[McScoreley]

Hopefully Joe rebounds with a bonus win over Spadafora. Don't want a losing streak going into Big Tens.

 

[RoarLions1]

Did a quick review. If the same team goes that went last night for the Lions, we'll be favored by a good bit in each bout. I do see several that are likely decisions, but bonus points should be the result in most bouts.

 

[regularfan]

Big 10 Dual champions with a win!

 

[Brian LB-U]

Assuming Beau goes and beats Hunter, he’d be 2-1 going into Big Tens. He’d therefore need at least one win Tourney win to be eligible for nationals. The Big Ten 149 field is mediocre this year behind Sasso and Murin. He has a good shot IMO.

 

[NoVa Lion]

Assuming Beau goes and beats Hunter, he’d be 2-1 going into Big Tens. He’d therefore need at least one win Tourney win to be eligible for nationals. The Big Ten 149 field is mediocre this year behind Sasso and Murin. He has a good shot IMO.

He won't be seeded #1 or #2 so he would need at least 2 wins to finish top 8 at BIGs and qualify for NCAAs.

 

[RoarLions1]

Assuming Beau goes and beats Hunter, he’d be 2-1 going into Big Tens. He’d therefore need at least one win Tourney win to be eligible for nationals. The Big Ten 149 field is mediocre this year behind Sasso and Murin. He has a good shot IMO.

I'm curious what you mean by one tourney win to be eligible for nationals?

EDIT: I just saw NoVa posted a comment too. Here's my take on Howard, assuming he wins vs Maryland; after his first bout at Big Ten's he's "eligible" for NCAA's as he'll have four bouts. With 7 pre-allotated spots, and one AQ at 125, I'm hoping he earns his way, and not count on an at-large berth. With seven of those this year, finishing 9th should do it too. To finish top-8, just win two bouts anywhere in the championship or wrestleback brackets.

 

[Brian LB-U]

I'm curious what you mean by one tourney win to be eligible for nationals?

Hi Roar, my understanding is the wrestlers need 4 bouts at their weight to be eligible. Do I have that right? I suppose Beau could lose his first BIG bout (making him 2-2) and still pick up some quality wins in the consis. Any idea how the allocations are going to be handled? Edit: Nova answered my question. Thanks!

 

[1032004]

He won't be seeded #1 or #2 so he would need at least 2 wins to finish top 8 at BIGs and qualify for NCAAs.

Looks like he actually needs to finish top 7 based on this - https://www.ncaa.com/news/wrestling...rst-coaches-ranking-2021-division-i-wrestling

Definitely doable but won’t be easy.

Sasso, Murin, Carr, Storr, Parriot, Thomas, Blockhus, VanBrill, Rooks are all pretty tough and even Omania, Scharenbrock, and Hardy aren’t slouches either.

 

[7brwnpsu]

I'll take Beau in the top 3rd of that group. Beau also seems like the type of guy who once he takes a loss, God help the next couple of guys he will face in the tournament.

 

[El-Jefe]

Looks like he actually needs to finish top 7 based on this - https://www.ncaa.com/news/wrestling...rst-coaches-ranking-2021-division-i-wrestling

Definitely doable but won’t be easy.

Sasso, Murin, Carr, Storr, Parriot, Thomas, Blockhus, VanBrill, Rooks are all pretty tough and even Omania, Scharenbrock, and Hardy aren’t slouches either.

Mike Van Brill, career mark 59-47 including a 19-5 shirt year, best varsity season 19-18.

Bartlett is finishing higher than Van Brill.

 

[dmm53]

Where does (and will) Bartlett fit in?

Rank	Class	Name	School	Previous
1	SO	Sammy Sasso	Ohio State	1
2	JR	Max Murin	Iowa	2
3	JR	Michael Carr	Illinois	3
4	SR	Kanen Storr	Michigan	4
5	SR	Griffin Parriott	Purdue	5
6	JR	Yahya Thomas	Northwestern	7
7	SO	Graham Rooks	Indiana	8
8	JR	Jarod Verkleeren	Penn State	6
9	SO	Mike Van Brill	Rutgers	11
10	SO	Drew Scharenbrock	Wisconsin	14
11	FR	Brock Hardy	Nebraska	9
12	SO	Michael Blockhus	Minnesota	10
13	FR	Peyton Omania	Michigan State	12
14	FR	Michael North	Maryland	13

 

[GOLDBANGER]

This will be a bath of blood...as usual against the Turtles.

 

[1032004]

Mike Van Brill, career mark 59-47 including a 19-5 shirt year, best varsity season 19-18.

Bartlett is finishing higher than Van Brill.

I would tend to agree but with a true freshman vs a fifth year senior, you never really know.

Bartlett had a nice TD against Sasso, but that's about the only data we have on him (assuming he's even the guy at 149 for B10's). The Mattin win wasn't bad either, but even he also lost to Gerard Angelo who got beat out by VanBrill. Other than that, he pinned a 125 lber and got decisions against 3 backup 141 lbers that wrestled 133 last year.

 

[McScoreley]

Honestly ... it's pretty apparent neither Bearclaw or Verk are going to score at NCAAs. Verk probably isn't even healthy (and is obviously dealing with a ton off the mat that needs to take priority over wrestling)

They're both big time talents who we should be grateful chose PSU when they could be receiving $$$ elsewhere but can't see either beating a string of 3-4 NQs in a given weekend especially since they'd both be low seeds if they even qualify.

All else equal, go with the youngling who is clearly the future. Showed quite a bit of skill and athleticism against Sasso but transitive property through losses isn't the best way to go. Keep in mind Verk took Micah Jordan to the brink also.

 

[RoarLions1]

Hi Roar, my understanding is the wrestlers need 4 bouts at their weight to be eligible. Do I have that right? I suppose Beau could lose his first BIG bout (making him 2-2) and still pick up some quality wins in the consis. Any idea how the allocations are going to be handled? Edit: Nova answered my question. Thanks!

Thanks. I'll add a little bit of info. Fans have been making too much of the 4-match minimum imo. In the Big Ten tournament alone, it's likely every wrestler gets at least three bouts, as it appears all weights will have bonus bouts to get to 9th and 10th place. 197 may be an exception. Going 0-3 isn't going to get a wrestler to the big dance anyway, so anyone that wins at least one match will get the 4 needed -- at the tournament.

1st and 2nd place finishers are an exception, as they will only get 3 bouts. Winner is an AQ anyway, so it doesn't matter. A second place finisher that enters the tournament without a single bout during the regular season is screwed.

It's more of a dilemma for the PAC-12 and ACC, as they only have 6 teams and fewer matches in their tournaments. A wrestler going to those tournaments without having wrestled during the season will not get to 4 matches.

 

[1032004]

Thanks. I'll add a little bit of info. Fans have been making too much of the 4-match minimum imo. In the Big Ten tournament alone, it's likely every wrestler gets at least three bouts, as it appears all weights will have bonus bouts to get to 9th and 10th place. 197 may be an exception. Going 0-3 isn't going to get a wrestler to the big dance anyway, so anyone that wins at least one match will get the 4 needed -- at the tournament.

1st and 2nd place finishers are an exception, as they will only get 3 bouts. Winner is an AQ anyway, so it doesn't matter. A second place finisher that enters the tournament without a single bout during the regular season is screwed.

It's more of a dilemma for the PAC-12 and ACC, as they only have 6 teams and fewer matches in their tournaments. A wrestler going to those tournaments without having wrestled during the season will not get to 4 matches.

I think the concern over the 4 match thing particularly for B10 teams is more about guys potentially missing the conference tournaments due to covid reasons since they may not be able to get an at-large without the 4 matches.

But guys like Howard and Bartlett probably aren’t getting at-larges without wrestling in the B10 tournament anyway, so kind of a moot point for them.

 

[Cowbell Man]

Mike Van Brill, career mark 59-47 including a 19-5 shirt year, best varsity season 19-18.

Bartlett is finishing higher than Van Brill.

Oooo. Tough call. Remember at the beginning of the season Johnson or Gibbons call Van Brill an elite wrestler AND the ticker noted Van Brill had PARTICIPATED in not just one but TWO Big Ten Championship tournaments. So......that’s a pretty high bar set for BBar. Lol.

 

[1032004]

Oooo. Tough call. Remember at the beginning of the season Johnson or Gibbons call Van Brill an elite wrestler AND the ticker noted Van Brill had PARTICIPATED in not just one but TWO Big Ten Championship tournaments. So......that’s a pretty high bar set for BBar. Lol.

He also wrestled 157 last year. I honestly would lean him over Bartlett. But wouldn’t be surprised to see Bartlett beat any of those dudes other than Sasso.

 

[Cowbell Man]

He also wrestled 157 last year. I honestly would lean him over Bartlett. But wouldn’t be surprised to see Bartlett beat any of those dudes other than Sasso.

Lol. Probably should read my post a little more closely. You’ll catch the sarcasm. But....it IS what they said.
And last I checked you don’t actually have to win a match to participate in the league championships.

 

[1032004]

Lol. Probably should read my post a little more closely. You’ll catch the sarcasm. But....it IS what they said.
And last I checked you don’t actually have to win a match to participate in the league championships.

I caught it, you were disparaging VanBrill because he was only one win above .500, despite qualifying for NCAA’s two weights higher than Bartlett’s true weight class. He’s probably 4 years older than Bartlett and likely naturally 15+ lbs heavier. Bartlett may win, but if he does I don’t think it will be easy.

 

[El-Jefe]

I caught it, you were disparaging VanBrill because he was only one win above .500, despite qualifying for NCAA’s two weights higher than Bartlett’s true weight class. He’s probably 4 years older than Bartlett and likely naturally 15+ lbs heavier. Bartlett may win, but if he does I don’t think it will be easy.

Then you didn't catch it at all.

Cowbell was diparaging the BTN announcers for the ridiculous claim that 2 conference tourney appearances make Van Brill an elite wrestler.

 

[Cowbell Man]

Then you didn't catch it at all.

Cowbell was diparaging the BTN announcers for the ridiculous claim that 2 conference tourney appearances make Van Brill an elite wrestler.

Ding Ding Ding to El Jefe. That is exactly what they did. They didn’t even say how he performed...just that he participated in 2 conference tourneys.

 

[1032004]

Then you didn't catch it at all.

Cowbell was diparaging the BTN announcers for the ridiculous claim that 2 conference tourney appearances make Van Brill an elite wrestler.

I know, isn’t the implication from that he’s not good?

 

[McScoreley]

I don't want to imagine how MVB would celebrate if he beats Bartlett. He acted like he won NCAAs when he beat Pipher 1-0 in rideouts.

 

[Chickenman Testa]

Just want to remark how insanely sweet it is that we can come home from the beginning of a work week AND THEN sit down to some Penn State wrestling instead of waiting all damn week

 

[1032004]

There is quite the round robin with those mid range B10 149 guys this year though

VanBrill beat Blockhus, lost to Parriott

Blockhus beat Thomas & Scharenbrock, lost to VanBrill & Hardy

Thomas beat Rooks, Hardy & Scharenbrock, lost to Blockhus

Hardy beat Blockhus, lost to Thomas & Scharenbrock

Scharenbrock beat Hardy, lost to Thomas & Blockhus (& Gardner)

 

[El-Jefe]

I know, isn’t the implication from that he’s not good?

Yes -- but not the way you think.

Cowbell didn't imply it -- he didn't have to. BTN crew damned Van Brill with the faintest possible praise.

 

[1032004]

Yes -- but not the way you think.

Cowbell didn't imply it -- he didn't have to. BTN crew damned Van Brill with the faintest possible praise.

Sorry I may have been mixing cowbell up with you, as you were the one disparaging him for being an NCAA qualifier at 157

 

[El-Jefe]

Sorry I may have been mixing cowbell up with you, as you were the one disparaging him for being an NCAA qualifier at 157

Wrong. I made no mention of his weight at all. I disparaged him for having no varsity seasons better than 1 win over .500.

And I stand by that. That is his record. 19-18 and 15-14 seasons are good for a depth guy pressed into starting due to injuries. But not for a starter. Also that's a paper-thin record -- his next quality win will be the first of his career.

 

[82bordeaux]

There is quite the round robin with those mid range B10 149 guys this year though

VanBrill beat Blockhus, lost to Parriott

Blockhus beat Thomas & Scharenbrock, lost to VanBrill & Hardy

Thomas beat Rooks, Hardy & Scharenbrock, lost to Blockhus

Hardy beat Blockhus, lost to Thomas & Scharenbrock

Scharenbrock beat Hardy, lost to Thomas & Blockhus (& Gardner)

 

[jpsolo]

Thanks. I'll add a little bit of info. Fans have been making too much of the 4-match minimum imo. In the Big Ten tournament alone, it's likely every wrestler gets at least three bouts, as it appears all weights will have bonus bouts to get to 9th and 10th place. 197 may be an exception. Going 0-3 isn't going to get a wrestler to the big dance anyway, so anyone that wins at least one match will get the 4 needed -- at the tournament.

1st and 2nd place finishers are an exception, as they will only get 3 bouts. Winner is an AQ anyway, so it doesn't matter. A second place finisher that enters the tournament without a single bout during the regular season is screwed.

It's more of a dilemma for the PAC-12 and ACC, as they only have 6 teams and fewer matches in their tournaments. A wrestler going to those tournaments without having wrestled during the season will not get to 4 matches.

Doesnt the the runner up at any weight qualify no matter what their record is coming in since all weights auto qualifiers are more than 2? Or do you need 4 matches and an auto spot?

 

[mrh1645]

Doesnt the the runner up at any weight qualify no matter what their record is coming in since all weights auto qualifiers are more than 2? Or do you need 4 matches and an auto spot?

I believe only the B10 champ can get into NCAAs with less than 4 matches.
A wrestler needs at least 4 matches in order to get an allocated spot or an at-large bid.

 

[1032004]

Wrong. I made no mention of his weight at all. I disparaged him for having no varsity seasons better than 1 win over .500.

And I stand by that. That is his record. 19-18 and 15-14 seasons are good for a depth guy pressed into starting due to injuries. But not for a starter. Also that's a paper-thin record -- his next quality win will be the first of his career.

But that 19-18 season earned him a trip to NCAA’s.

I know you didn’t say anything about the weight, I think that’s part of what you’re missing. You really think a true freshman that should be wrestling 141 will have no problem beating a 5th year senior that qualified for NCAA’s at 157 last year?

VanBrill has wins over Blockhus, Barone (R16 in 2019), Cleary, Headlee...it’s not like he’s never beaten anyone decent.

 

[Cowbell Man]

But that 19-18 season earned him a trip to NCAA’s.

I know you didn’t say anything about the weight, I think that’s part of what you’re missing. You really think a true freshman that should be wrestling 141 will have no problem beating a 5th year senior that qualified for NCAA’s at 157 last year?

VanBrill has wins over Blockhus, Barone (R16 in 2019), Cleary, Headlee...it’s not like he’s never beaten anyone decent.

Big Ten Network comedy aside: Lots of wrestlers qualify for the NCAA with a little luck in a conference tourney or other paths open. Some with losing records. Sure, he’s beaten decent wrestlers. In order to do that with his record that means he’s also had some pure stinkers for losses.

With his career stats I would expect all of our 149’s to beat him.

 

[El-Jefe]

But that 19-18 season earned him a trip to NCAA’s.

I know you didn’t say anything about the weight, I think that’s part of what you’re missing. You really think a true freshman that should be wrestling 141 will have no problem beating a 5th year senior that qualified for NCAA’s at 157 last year?

VanBrill has wins over Blockhus, Barone (R16 in 2019), Cleary, Headlee...it’s not like he’s never beaten anyone decent.

The sound everybody hears is a sonic boom from goalpost moving.

There's no point in responding because the goalposts will move yet again.

 

[1032004]

The sound everybody hears is a sonic boom from goalpost moving.

There's no point in responding because the goalposts will move yet again.

Not really, the main comment I was responding to was you saying “Bartlett is finishing higher than VanBrill” as if it was a foregone conclusion.

 

[psumacw]

Thanks. I'll add a little bit of info. Fans have been making too much of the 4-match minimum imo. In the Big Ten tournament alone, it's likely every wrestler gets at least three bouts, as it appears all weights will have bonus bouts to get to 9th and 10th place. 197 may be an exception. Going 0-3 isn't going to get a wrestler to the big dance anyway, so anyone that wins at least one match will get the 4 needed -- at the tournament.

1st and 2nd place finishers are an exception, as they will only get 3 bouts. Winner is an AQ anyway, so it doesn't matter. A second place finisher that enters the tournament without a single bout during the regular season is screwed.

It's more of a dilemma for the PAC-12 and ACC, as they only have 6 teams and fewer matches in their tournaments. A wrestler going to those tournaments without having wrestled during the season will not get to 4 matches.

correct me if i'm wrong, but the finalists would only get 3 matches if they're the #1 or #2 seed, correct? since the brackets are seeded all the way out to 14, only #1 and #2 get a bye in the round of 16 and the rest of the wrestlers would need to win 3 matches to make the finals which would be their fourth. i'd be very surprised if they seed any wrestler coming into the tourney with a 0-0 record at #1 or #2. there would a case for suriano since he's a champ, but not kerk.

 

[GogglesPaizano]

Pardon my ignorance in advance on down bracket tourney seeding, so be kind.

Any logic in trying to get both Howard and Beau both dual and extra matches in today? The thought being, if they both get 2 more victories they might bump up a slot in seeding for the Big 10. Granted they would be going against non starters.

I haven't taken a look at what might be the seeding, but what are the chances Beau for instance pulls Sasso right out of the gate, of not early?

 

[pish69]

Pardon my ignorance in advance on down bracket tourney seeding, so be kind.

Any logic in trying to get both Howard and Beau both dual and extra matches in today? The thought being, if they both get 2 more victories they might bump up a slot in seeding for the Big 10. Granted they would be going against non starters.

I haven't taken a look at what might be the seeding, but what are the chances Beau for instance pulls Sasso right out of the gate, of not early?

I’m hoping both get extra matches today to get the “4” under their belts. I’m not concerned with seeding but they both need 4 just in case either get Covid and have to sit out B1Gs.

To me this is why the “4” is so important.