Plane crash in France/Alps... All 150 feared dead.*
- Thread starter ericstratton-rushchairman
- Start date
That is really unusual. Commercial crashes are almost nonexistent now in the U.S. and Europe. This is a Lufthansa subsidiary -- one of the best airlines in the world. And the A320 is incredibly reliable. Doesn't appear to be a pilot error scenario.
The plane didn't explode in midair, so the most likely thing is fire. Pilots were able to descend to 5k feet but then lost control before they could get the plane all the way down. Fire could have started in baggage. Or an engine malfunctioned and started a fire somehow.
The plane didn't explode in midair, so the most likely thing is fire. Pilots were able to descend to 5k feet but then lost control before they could get the plane all the way down. Fire could have started in baggage. Or an engine malfunctioned and started a fire somehow.
Ridiculous to speculate on the cause of the crash. As a former Navy pilot,34 years as an airline pilot,instructor and check pilot I believe I know a little about such matters. To say that a low cost German carrier is one of the best airlines in the world is ridiculous. I have worked on assignments for both KLM and Air France,both airlines' training programs didn't compare to Northwest and Delta.
I predict that you are going to find out that the pilots of this plane performed skillfully and heroically.
I predict that you will find that the pilots prevented a stall after losing both engines, flew the plane as a glider, and searched unsuccessfully for a place to land. In the end, there was no place to land.
I predict that you will never, ever admit that you are wrong about anything.
And, are you not merely speculating that the training program for these pilots was not up to snuff? Would be hilarious if not so idiotic and tragic.
I predict that you will find that the pilots prevented a stall after losing both engines, flew the plane as a glider, and searched unsuccessfully for a place to land. In the end, there was no place to land.
I predict that you will never, ever admit that you are wrong about anything.
And, are you not merely speculating that the training program for these pilots was not up to snuff? Would be hilarious if not so idiotic and tragic.
God bless the people on board.
It's odd that this happened a minute after They reached cruising altitude (a minute after the ding that signals seat belts can come off and you're free to walk around the cabin). Many prayers to the families and friends of those who lost their lives.
This post was edited on 3/24 12:41 PM by lattydaddy
It's odd that this happened a minute after They reached cruising altitude (a minute after the ding that signals seat belts can come off and you're free to walk around the cabin). Many prayers to the families and friends of those who lost their lives.
This post was edited on 3/24 12:41 PM by lattydaddy
Initial reports, no mayday, catastrophic failure
but we know how reliable initial reports can be. My experience is that this things are most often caused by pilot error. But that doesn't seem to be the case, if initial reports are true.
but we know how reliable initial reports can be. My experience is that this things are most often caused by pilot error. But that doesn't seem to be the case, if initial reports are true.
Reports were that the speed was pretty constant despite the fairly quick descent. To me that doesn't seem to indicate they were gliding with a stalled engine of sorts
I'm amazed at people who can speculate on the cause of the crash at this point. Have been on many accident boards. Sorry pal,this is my business.
With all due respect, what was inflammatory in tboyer's post?
Geez, people speculate. It's what they do.
I visit airliners.net regularly and there are currently HUNDREDS of posts about this crash there, most full of speculation. And that's a message board which is nearly exclusively full of people inside the industry!
This post was edited on 3/24 1:12 PM by michnittlion
Geez, people speculate. It's what they do.
I visit airliners.net regularly and there are currently HUNDREDS of posts about this crash there, most full of speculation. And that's a message board which is nearly exclusively full of people inside the industry!
This post was edited on 3/24 1:12 PM by michnittlion
what brought this on? ...
Flyer has been a good source of info over the years.
I would not predict anything about what he would find. That said, I think he's shown in the past, and in today's post, that folks can speculate all they want, but that the investigators that know what they are doing will take quite some time (months/years) to analyze every piece of data/evidence they have before releasing any conclusions.
Tom
Flyer has been a good source of info over the years.
I would not predict anything about what he would find. That said, I think he's shown in the past, and in today's post, that folks can speculate all they want, but that the investigators that know what they are doing will take quite some time (months/years) to analyze every piece of data/evidence they have before releasing any conclusions.
Tom
I'm amazed at people who are offended by speculation as to what caused tragedies. Seems like pretty basic human nature to wonder aloud and discuss with others what potentially went wrong.
Just absurd for you to get your panties in a wad about others expressing their thoughts because its your business. You don't have a monopoly on thought just because it's what you do for a living.
I've yet to meet the stock broker who is amazed and offended that others speculate on which direction the market is headed, the lawyer who is amazed and offended someone speculates as to what constitutes grounds for claim or predicts the outcome, or the architect who is amazed and offended at anyone who speculates on which design will be chosen for a public project.
Re: Wi To Low
Just Classic ^^^^.
. There's video out there too of the newscaster pronouncing these names in a very deliberate and somewhat scornful way as the cause was speculated to be pilot error. How she (or anyone else at the news station) didn't pick up on those names before going on air still amazes me to this day.
Just Classic ^^^^.
. There's video out there too of the newscaster pronouncing these names in a very deliberate and somewhat scornful way as the cause was speculated to be pilot error. How she (or anyone else at the news station) didn't pick up on those names before going on air still amazes me to this day.
Sort of 'out there' but can someone please explain to me how an airliner can lose control and be controlled from somewhere else? I've seen headlines a few days ago about warnings this may be possible. It just got me wondering if that could have been a cause in the Malasia air crash that made deliberate turns on the edge of radar, went to an elevation that knocked people out etc. Is it really possible for some sophisticated group to take control of planes in the air?
Re: what brought this on? ...
As other have expressed, his tone on the subject of speculation.
He was out of line and deserved some jabs.
And, it seems obvious to me that he isn't the type to admit he is wrong. Not after staking his reputation on it. Again, he is the one speculating that the training may not have been up to snuff.
Since posting, we have learned that the pilot was very experienced, which comes as no surprise to me.
I, on the other hand, am not staking my reputation on anything. Merely, predicting....and jabbing where and when appropriate.
I wouldn't trust the guy to investigate a dang thing for me....call it a trained investigator's instinct, and you'd be right.
At any rate, a black box has been found...and that should tie up some loose ends promptly.
This post was edited on 3/24 2:06 PM by Ten Thousan Marbles
As other have expressed, his tone on the subject of speculation.
He was out of line and deserved some jabs.
And, it seems obvious to me that he isn't the type to admit he is wrong. Not after staking his reputation on it. Again, he is the one speculating that the training may not have been up to snuff.
Since posting, we have learned that the pilot was very experienced, which comes as no surprise to me.
I, on the other hand, am not staking my reputation on anything. Merely, predicting....and jabbing where and when appropriate.
I wouldn't trust the guy to investigate a dang thing for me....call it a trained investigator's instinct, and you'd be right.
At any rate, a black box has been found...and that should tie up some loose ends promptly.
This post was edited on 3/24 2:06 PM by Ten Thousan Marbles
Yup...
I was living out there then and actually heard the names read by newscaster on the air completely clueless.
I was living out there then and actually heard the names read by newscaster on the air completely clueless.
I would agree that it is too early to pinpoint what caused the problem, but I do think that some things might be eliminated. For starters, the generation of Airbus which was involved has an "auto" feature on its transponder which would have sent out an emergency signal, on its own, in the event of an engine failure. I get this information from Airbus pilots as I have no experience on that brand of equipment. All of my experience has been on Boeing equipment. having said that, I would think that the "glider" option can be disregarded.
When looking at the flight profile, it does resemble one of an aircraft that had experienced a depressurization. The procedure is to descend to 10,000 ft or the lowest safe alltitude (whichever is higher). In that area, the lowest safe altitude is something above 10,000 ft.
Another possibility could be a fire on the aircraft. Although this procedure would eventually lead to a descent similar to ths aircraft's, It would almost certainly be accompanied by a course change to "the nearest suitable airport".
While I can't speak to the quality of pilot training at this airline, some of the European low cost carriers have very inexperienced pilots.
When looking at the flight profile, it does resemble one of an aircraft that had experienced a depressurization. The procedure is to descend to 10,000 ft or the lowest safe alltitude (whichever is higher). In that area, the lowest safe altitude is something above 10,000 ft.
Another possibility could be a fire on the aircraft. Although this procedure would eventually lead to a descent similar to ths aircraft's, It would almost certainly be accompanied by a course change to "the nearest suitable airport".
While I can't speak to the quality of pilot training at this airline, some of the European low cost carriers have very inexperienced pilots.
FWIW, a relative was flying out of Barcelona today ...
so my heart skipped a few beats when I first heard the breaking news this morning.
I didn't think they were flying to Germany, but couldn't remember for sure.
Got a text from my relative a short time later. Said they had just boarded their plane when everyone's phones started going crazy; texts from concerned friends and family. Their flight was delayed an hour. They were never given info as to why, but the speculation was that a lot of flights out of BCN were put on hold after the crash.
I'll say a prayer for the 150+ families whose members' hearts skipped more than a few beats today.
Tom
so my heart skipped a few beats when I first heard the breaking news this morning.
I didn't think they were flying to Germany, but couldn't remember for sure.
Got a text from my relative a short time later. Said they had just boarded their plane when everyone's phones started going crazy; texts from concerned friends and family. Their flight was delayed an hour. They were never given info as to why, but the speculation was that a lot of flights out of BCN were put on hold after the crash.
I'll say a prayer for the 150+ families whose members' hearts skipped more than a few beats today.
Tom
Pilots do seem to often be very arrogant folk
To a certain degree, that's probably a GOOD trait. I know that is definitely what I would want out of an Air Force fighter pilot, for instance. And military pilot to commercial pilot is a frequent career path.
I respect them, and if the pilot is available after a commercial flight, I will always thank him/her. Something like "thank you for getting me home safely." I recognize that (a) any operations/mechanical delays and/or mis-connections that I may incur are not the pilot's fault, and (b) their jobs can NOT be fully automated, despite what some fools think.
And similarly I know that I certainly have no idea how to fly a 737 or a 757 (or even a Piper Cub!) ..... they are the experts on flying those things.
But as you said --- they do NOT have a monopoly on thought for what they do for a living. In my experience, pilots do seem to disproportionately think this way.
This post was edited on 3/24 2:25 PM by michnittlion
To a certain degree, that's probably a GOOD trait. I know that is definitely what I would want out of an Air Force fighter pilot, for instance. And military pilot to commercial pilot is a frequent career path.
I respect them, and if the pilot is available after a commercial flight, I will always thank him/her. Something like "thank you for getting me home safely." I recognize that (a) any operations/mechanical delays and/or mis-connections that I may incur are not the pilot's fault, and (b) their jobs can NOT be fully automated, despite what some fools think.
And similarly I know that I certainly have no idea how to fly a 737 or a 757 (or even a Piper Cub!) ..... they are the experts on flying those things.
But as you said --- they do NOT have a monopoly on thought for what they do for a living. In my experience, pilots do seem to disproportionately think this way.
This post was edited on 3/24 2:25 PM by michnittlion
Re: here is the video
I've probably watched that thing a few dozen times over the years. I believe in 40 years, it will still be the single funniest thing I'll have ever seen on the internet. It's a belly laugh for me every single time.
I flew in an Airbus A320 on March 11 and March 21. One from Paris
to Venice, the other from Naples to Paris. Nice, smooth ride both times. Both seemed like older aircraft, but the rides were good and uneventful.
By the way, my wife and I were "stuck" in Sorrento for an extra day by a wildcat strike by Lufthansa pilots, which escalated and cancelled all flights in Europe.
to Venice, the other from Naples to Paris. Nice, smooth ride both times. Both seemed like older aircraft, but the rides were good and uneventful.
By the way, my wife and I were "stuck" in Sorrento for an extra day by a wildcat strike by Lufthansa pilots, which escalated and cancelled all flights in Europe.
Re: I flew in an Airbus A320 on March 11 and March 21. One from Paris
Just a note to the poster who believes they lost both engines and flew it as a glider. Multiple engine failures in modern commercial jet aircraft are almost nonexistent. The only recent incidents of multiple engine failure are do to bird strikes and encountering volcanic ash. No birds fly that high,no volcanoes. Odds one in a million or so,if that. Just saying.
Just a note to the poster who believes they lost both engines and flew it as a glider. Multiple engine failures in modern commercial jet aircraft are almost nonexistent. The only recent incidents of multiple engine failure are do to bird strikes and encountering volcanic ash. No birds fly that high,no volcanoes. Odds one in a million or so,if that. Just saying.
