PSU @combine...most gold medals
- Thread starter littlebluetrike
- Start date
I imagine that we would have had more medals if Barkley competed in the broad jump and some of the other cone drills.
Some here downplayed the impact of this as far as recruiting is concerned. Perhaps they weren't aware that several people said/tweeted that the competitive culture in the PSU weight room had a lot to do with it.
No, because the guys coming up behind them are just as or even more talented (save Barkley) and in greater numbers. The new guys won't be clones, but will have their own unique strengths and abilities that will make them stand out. Whenever doubt comes over you, remember that its the process that will ensure long term success, not the individual players. I trust CJF and I trust in the process.
I trust the process but it is complete and utter speculation (and likely very wrong) to claim the people coming up behind them are just as good or better. Seriously? Who is better than Gesicki? Or Hamilton? Or Allen? I mean right now, not might, maybe, could become better, but right now, are ready to step in and be better. It's an easy answer...No one. Now the good teams replace good players and maintain a high level of performance but that doesn't mean that the individual position players they lost were replaced by just as good or better players.
Mike Gesicki was a matchup nightmare.Penn State will not replace him.
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I remember several seasons of comments of "hands of stone" until this season's "matchup nightmare." Which he was. In regards to Hamilton, who remembers Robinson?
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Well, one thing is for sure, we will soon see if we have been able to “reload” like the best programs in the country are able to do in a regular basis.
He's had at least two seasons of "matchup nightmare." 2017 was NOT his breakout year.
I remember 1, 2015. He was fantastic in 2016 and 2017.
There will be some guys who we’ll miss. We certainly didn’t have anyone with Chris Godwin’s abilities at WR this year, but we survived. It’s a team sport and you have to look at the overall level of talent, not whether the next starting TE will fill Geisickis shoes.
You said the guys "coming up behind them (the departing players) are just as or even more talented." That's the statement I challenged. And IMHO that statement is way off. You have no idea if the kids coming up behind the departing players are just as good or even better. In fact, given how good the departing players were, it's likely they won't be. That doesn't mean the TEAM can't be just as good or even better but it won't be because we found a better tight end than Gesicki or a better safety than Allen or a better slot receiver than Hamilton.
Using the only measure we have for comparing HS recruits, the star rating system, we have had progressively more talented recruiting classes, which equates to more talented individuals on average. It's not rocket science, and I never said that X would be better than Barkley or Y would be better than Geisicki...
You're moving the goalposts, Dan. While you did exclude Barkley, you absolutely did say Y is better than Gesicki. Go back and read it. And be man enough to admit you were wrong.
And they are more talented. I just don't know which one is going to shine. The overall level of talent is greater, so the guys coming up behind them are more talented. Why are you so focused on parsing my words and splitting hairs?
You’re speculating just as much as the poster you’re accusing of doing it. You don’t know that the person coming up behind Gesicki or Allen won’t be as good. All I heard last year was we wouldn’t be able to replace Godwin and Hamilton steps up. We may have a second teamer who steps up and performs as well or better than the person who left (or a recruit). None of us know, but the chances are better now that the incoming person will be better than it’s been for a long time because of the recruiting.
Huh? Sorry, not even close. There is not a shred of evidence that anyone on the roster is more talented than Gesicki. None. Now, if someone ends of being more talented a year or two from now, that certainly doesn't validate the claim from March 2018 that the players coming up behind the departing players are as much or more talented. Gesicki might be the best pass catching TE ever to play at PSU so the burden is not on me to show that it's unlikely that Player X is better than him, the burden is on the one making the claim that Player X is better to prove it. And I'll save you the time...it can't be proven because it's an impossible to defend claim. Well, except for you and Ranger Dan I guess.
And you're conflating issues with the Hamilton example. He didn't take Godwin's position in the offense. No one in 2017 who played Godwin's position was as good as he was in 2016. The offense found ways to lessen the impact of his loss by utilizing other players but Hamilton did not replace Godwin. The same thing might happen this year, we might be able to utilize the talent of other players to offset the losses of Gesicki and Hamilton and Barkley but that doesn't mean for a second that the individal players were as good or better than the players they replaced. And THAT was the initial claim that I challenged.
We dominated the NFL Combine?!? Phuck yah! To hell with the National Championship or Super Bowl, we are the true champs! Take that be-otches!
Madsol, I enjoy your posts, and Dan's as well. That said, let's assume for a moment that Dan engaged in a bit of hyperbole. And let's also assume that your points are not open to dispute. It is really necessary to go this extreme to prove you are right? Really?
Got it. Thank you. I apologize, I'm not having the best of days and I let it cloud my judgment. Dan and AWS, I'm sorry.
And Stanford had no one on the roster who could replace McCaffrey until Love came on the scene the next year. Good teams lose good players all the time but others step in and perform.
Yeah me too but I wasn't looking for a discussion I was picking a fight. Stupid. Have a good day.
As I said, I enjoy your posts and your response here is one of the reasons. All the best.
Here’s a crazy opinion: I think both viewpoints are correct.
On the 1 hand, Coach Franklin has stocked the roster with more overall talent than Penn State has had in nearly 20 years. He’s brought in 5 solid QB prospects, a dozen or so OL, a 3-deep pool of DL talent, good blend of quick and tall WRs, and a secondary like nothing I have seen in my 50+ years following the Lions. He’s now stocking LBs, and only the RB slot is what I would call lesser than in the “old days” when PSU went seamlessly through Campbell-Pittman-Mitchell-Cappy-Suhey-Guman-Warner-Dozier.
So, Dan has a point that while we lose a “generational talent” like Saquon, it’s possible that Sanders or Brown or Slade could still get those 1500+ yards rushing. Perhaps instead of an electrifying 92-yard home run, Sanders could get a few 30+ gains, eating more clock, wearing out the defense a bit more, and still putting 6 points on the board. Likewise, maybe Bowers adds improved blocking at TE to help convert more 3rd downs and then Kuntz might provide the defensive mismatch to rival Gesicki’s talent there.
OTOH, Madsol is correct that no one on the current roster approaches the “superman” levels of Saquon’s total package and that none of the TEs have yet shown (that we know of, anyway) the ability to make the acrobatic catches MG made these past 2 years. Furthermore, we fans have not seen many display the speed and tackling ability of the 4 exiting secondary players. Haley and Allen made some amazing, game-changing plays for PSU, and it will be very difficult to duplicate such awesome moments.
However, history has taught us that college football is all about adaptation and change. Replacing talent is an ongoing process for everybody. What Franklin is building is certainly on par with what the Big Dogs around the country are doing and, IMO, comparable to what PSU used to do under JoePa. Lose Reid & Smear? Crowder and Hartenstine were no pushovers. Lose Lydell? Cappelletti did ok. Lose Poz? Sean Lee was just fine. Such is the cycle of life in CFB.
I admit that I don’t have the football acumen of so many on this board, but I think Penn State can replace these recent stars with players that, as a team, can accomplish as much as or more than they did. Maybe instead of 4 or 5 touchdowns on consecutive plays, the new PSU gets those 4 or 5 with time-consuming drives. Not as spectacular as a 79-yard “OMG” run, but still 6 points. Maybe a 6’5” OLB can block a punt that can be scooped up by a different CB and returned for 6. And maybe we will see a secondary that intercepts passes at a rate not seen since Neal Smith roamed the field.
James Franklin has, at least for me, made it all fun again. I finally feel as if the “next man up” idea is no longer a downer but rather an opportunity for further success. I’m thrilled we had Saquon and Mike et al, but now I look eagerly forward to seeing Ricky and Zack and Justin and Lamont et al.
For the glory …
On the 1 hand, Coach Franklin has stocked the roster with more overall talent than Penn State has had in nearly 20 years. He’s brought in 5 solid QB prospects, a dozen or so OL, a 3-deep pool of DL talent, good blend of quick and tall WRs, and a secondary like nothing I have seen in my 50+ years following the Lions. He’s now stocking LBs, and only the RB slot is what I would call lesser than in the “old days” when PSU went seamlessly through Campbell-Pittman-Mitchell-Cappy-Suhey-Guman-Warner-Dozier.
So, Dan has a point that while we lose a “generational talent” like Saquon, it’s possible that Sanders or Brown or Slade could still get those 1500+ yards rushing. Perhaps instead of an electrifying 92-yard home run, Sanders could get a few 30+ gains, eating more clock, wearing out the defense a bit more, and still putting 6 points on the board. Likewise, maybe Bowers adds improved blocking at TE to help convert more 3rd downs and then Kuntz might provide the defensive mismatch to rival Gesicki’s talent there.
OTOH, Madsol is correct that no one on the current roster approaches the “superman” levels of Saquon’s total package and that none of the TEs have yet shown (that we know of, anyway) the ability to make the acrobatic catches MG made these past 2 years. Furthermore, we fans have not seen many display the speed and tackling ability of the 4 exiting secondary players. Haley and Allen made some amazing, game-changing plays for PSU, and it will be very difficult to duplicate such awesome moments.
However, history has taught us that college football is all about adaptation and change. Replacing talent is an ongoing process for everybody. What Franklin is building is certainly on par with what the Big Dogs around the country are doing and, IMO, comparable to what PSU used to do under JoePa. Lose Reid & Smear? Crowder and Hartenstine were no pushovers. Lose Lydell? Cappelletti did ok. Lose Poz? Sean Lee was just fine. Such is the cycle of life in CFB.
I admit that I don’t have the football acumen of so many on this board, but I think Penn State can replace these recent stars with players that, as a team, can accomplish as much as or more than they did. Maybe instead of 4 or 5 touchdowns on consecutive plays, the new PSU gets those 4 or 5 with time-consuming drives. Not as spectacular as a 79-yard “OMG” run, but still 6 points. Maybe a 6’5” OLB can block a punt that can be scooped up by a different CB and returned for 6. And maybe we will see a secondary that intercepts passes at a rate not seen since Neal Smith roamed the field.
James Franklin has, at least for me, made it all fun again. I finally feel as if the “next man up” idea is no longer a downer but rather an opportunity for further success. I’m thrilled we had Saquon and Mike et al, but now I look eagerly forward to seeing Ricky and Zack and Justin and Lamont et al.
For the glory …
Any positive press is awesome, in my opinion, even if it doesn't truly mean much. But I do think it's a boost to incoming and potential recruits. I'm sure many of them have aspirations of playing in the NFL one day, so this shows them a real path to get there.
kudos to Galt and the staff. Hoping we keep competing for a medal in the combine in years to come.
kudos to Galt and the staff. Hoping we keep competing for a medal in the combine in years to come.
Kuntz is a pretty big athletic pass catching TE. Let's not forget it took him 2 years to actually start catching the ball consistently too.
Well both of the TE recruits this year have a higher composite score than Gesecki did coming out of High School. In reality that means nothing but it is in black and white.
Only you Bob. No one else does it better.Geez, can't a guy be OUTRAGED.anymore?
Penn State will always have great players. Curt Warner to DJ Dozier to Blair Thomas to Richie Anderson to Ki Jana Carter to Larry Johnson etc. Just because you may name one in that list as the best of all time doesnt mean you cant find a guy who is 95% as good. Jesus, some of you guys love to find stuff to panic about.
Only you Bob. No one else does it better.
Oh, I can think of one person here who does it better. I’m working on my game, but I’m not in his league yet.
We’re done now that Barkley is gone. McSorley will be all alone in the backfield in 2018. It’s going to be tough for him, the team, and for us. I’ve already given up on the season.
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