I find it surprising that you don't hear much talk about these kids on here? The bigger one beat Forrest (and some other big names), and whether you think is was a 'caught' thing or not, it still shows up as a W on his record. And the smaller one gave Bassett all he could handle at Ironman, giving him his closest match of the tournament. On those lines (and maybe I'm still thinking like a D1 coach), but I think both these boys have a greater upside than some of the kids mentioned on here. Take Bassett for example. Kid gets top of the line coaching at YG and M2, I hear he works out with College kids frequently, and has one of the best kids in the nation as a practice partner. On the other hand, Raney has his brother as his only legit partner, not near the coaching level that Bassett has, and not near the partners. Who do you think has more upside? I personally think Bassett is already a finished product with not much ceiling left, whereas Raney's have not even touched their potential yet.
Raney Bros
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I think both Raney brothers are great prospects who are only scratching the surface of their potential but saying that a freshman in high school is a finished product with not much ceiling left is just crazy. I really don’t know who will be the better wrestler as they get into their college careers but the environment and coaching will continue to play a huge part. If Bassett or Forest end up at PSU I would expect them to continue to be a level ahead of the Raneys because of the coaching and environment at PSU. The coaching they are getting now and the environment they place themselves in on a daily basis is a unique and special thing that most other kids can’t replicate. The Raney brothers are both special talents and I hope they seek out opportunities to where they can get the most out of those talents. That said, the coaching and environment at PSU is unmatched and both Bassett and Jax are in the favorable position of being able to take advantage of it. If they continue to produce like they have and join PSU to wrestle in college then I feel like they too have only scratched the surface of what they will be. If the Raneys attend PSU I would expect the same. All are great prospects and I think they will all do big things in college and hopefully beyond but environment matters and the Bishop McCort kids are in a great situation to get better on a daily basis. Thinking that they are finished products is absolutely crazy in my mind
hear me out, but don't you think a few of those McCort kids regressed over their HS years? The older Gibson had a bunch of fan-fair coming out of JH, and remember getting an article forwarded to me about him being the 'next Kolat'. He regressed in HS, with middle-podium results at most events, and just didn't meet the expectations. His brother was a straight monster coming out of JH, and while he had a couple good showings at Fargo, I think he has underperformed, and regressed in HS. The Magro kid was another out of JH with much fan fair, and while he had some wins, he hasn't done much in HS. I think Forrest is best of bunch, but still doesn't have a reliable leg attack yet. He is an incredible scrambler, but wonder how far that will take him as he grows and gets older? Bassett, while intense and a great gas tank, is not what I'd call technical. If you notice, when he moved up in weight to 120, he could not bully those kids, and took some losses. Now that he is back at 113 (lighter weight), he is having success again. I just don't know if that dominance will follow him if he gets to the bigger weight classes?
Yes, those kids work, but worry way too much on the promotion and social media part. Just wrestle. Gotta wonder if they excel at the younger and ms ages because they just work harder than kids their age? This is why I like the higher-ceiling kids like Raney Bros. More to work with there, and untapped potential. While I love PSU, they aren't the only staff in the nation that can develop kids.
Yes, those kids work, but worry way too much on the promotion and social media part. Just wrestle. Gotta wonder if they excel at the younger and ms ages because they just work harder than kids their age? This is why I like the higher-ceiling kids like Raney Bros. More to work with there, and untapped potential. While I love PSU, they aren't the only staff in the nation that can develop kids.
I agree with this though. Raney’s are tough and have potential. They are dangerous and look very mature for their age physically. I think they got some big wins and then lose a round later it seems like. From what I am told they get their fair share of work in and have been around for a long time. They do personal sessions with Bo Nickals dad. Their head coach wrestled at blair. Which is probably why they are winning at fargo. Forest and Basset are scoring tf over top ten kids. That is why people are all over them. When freshmen are winning and tf’ing college kids that is why they get talked about. Being good on top is a difference maker. For years people said about Basset, when he gets to MS and then when he gets to HS his style won’t work. Now you are the first,,, when he gets to college.
Mcort has almost an unfair advantage. Their Training within their room is very good. Then you add NLWC, YoungGuns, M2. That is a very tough combination to beat. Herring is a nationally ranked kid and can’t even make their lineup.
Brandt Harer is the one people are forgetting about in the freshmen class. He was a big timer football player and now finally focusing on wrestling. Little Wentzel is another one I will be excited to see play out.
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Ok, wondered where Herring was. That is crazy! Relocate to PA for wrestling, and cannot even crack the line-up. My nephew wrestled him previously, and I don't care for some of his antics (pushing into the table OOB, embarrassing clearly out-classed opponents, etc). But that is the price you pay when you go to a school that is actively trying to recruit the best kids.
As for Forrest, I agree he is the best in that room, by far. I'm not on the Bassett hype train. I gotta see him at bigger weight classes
D
Also, Magro hasn't done much in HS? Last year as a freshman he beat Perry, beat state finalist Lebin, then got hurt at Powerade and didn't wrestle after December.
Don't confuse hype with skills development.
Also, Magro hasn't done much in HS? Last year as a freshman he beat Perry, beat state finalist Lebin, then got hurt at Powerade and didn't wrestle after December.
Zero results at big events. 2-2 at Ironman, I think a win or two at S32, and not sure if he even went to Fargo? A solid kid (which he is) will get a good win here-and-there over a HS career. I'm just saying their kids seem to be dominate in MS, and haven't really held up thru HS. He is just one example. Admittidly not a fan of the whole McCort atmosphere and self-promotion stuff, but will admit they have a couple kids to keep an eye on, and see if they change that trajectory during their HS careers. Just to this point, none of them have been as dominate when they were youth and ms.
Wrestlingmind= Troll account. 5 total posts
Was this thread made to talk about the Raney’s or to bash mccort. Trust me, I open can’t stand the private sector but your jealousy is seeping through.
To say none of the kids have been as dominating in HS. Little Gibson (our PSU Guy) was in there HS super 32 finals, Forest was 6-2 in college opens, Basset wins cadet worlds, super 32 and now Ironman scoring 10 plus points every match. Margo beat Perry, Lebin and just beat our guy, AA State Champion scott Johnson. The Eric Gibson probably would of won AA state titles.
Herring is pretty good too and I am sure I am missing more.
Trust me, I am jealous at times towards the privates schools but gosh don’t be so obvious.
I'm new to posting, doesn't mean troll account. Plus I'm not going to pay to just troll someone or a school, lol. I started the thread about Raney, and YOU brought up about the McCort Room, so I gave my thoughts. I have no skin in the game, but speak from several years of coaching experience. Don't like my thoughts--that is fine. But other college coaches I've spoken with share similar thoughts. And please don't 'should have won 2 AA title' talk. Never know what happens at hershey.
That is like saying you are trolling some posts by bringing up Harer into every convo. Everyone has their opinions.
That is like saying you are trolling some posts by bringing up Harer into every convo. Everyone has their opinions.
They have absolutely not regressed. The Gibsons, Bassetts, Herring etc. have benefited by having great coaching, great encouragement and great opportunities at a very young age. Combine that with an elite gym in their basement and great work ethic..........you get wrestlers whose technique and mat skills are far above almost everyone else that is close to their age. When you fast forward a few years and their weight increases and their body size starts to stabilize some limitations start to show. Arm & leg length, Muscle mass, muscle twitch and reaction time. While this is going on others are closing the gap on all the early advantages these wrestlers had. Add in the physically late bloomers. As more challengers appear and more matches become closer and they may even lose a couple.....then that dedication gets challenged by doubt and/or confidence. Some push through and are successful. Some continue to dominate. BUT...we can produce the longest thread ever on wrestlers who were "Absolute Studs", "Must Get", "Four Timers", "Full Court Press" "Generational Talent" who never advance much or stop altogether and fade away do to injuries, lost interest, physical limitations, bad life choices, changing priorities and simply being past by other wrestlers' skill improvement. One does not have to regress to show diminishing success. Time reveals all. The End
Cliche and it's always fun to discuss but end of the day, I trust Cael to take care of talent evaluation and recruiting.
I would like to know what colleges wouldn’t want those kids. Hopefully they don’t. We will take them in Happy Valley any day. So please tell those college coaches you talk to not to recruit them and We agree with you they stink & all regressed. They seem like solid kids, very respectful in the m2 mat and exciting to watch.
Not sure I understand these two statements combined:
His skill set is advanced and he is closer to his ceiling
He hasn't developed a go to TD.
Seems to me if a kid is crunching just about everybody and hasn't developed his neutral wrestling that is a kid I think has development potential
His skill set is advanced and he is closer to his ceiling
He hasn't developed a go to TD.
Seems to me if a kid is crunching just about everybody and hasn't developed his neutral wrestling that is a kid I think has development potential
i think forrest has the highest ceiling for the reasons you lay out. short term it may hurt him a bit, but i think he could really benefit from moving away from his fireman's. he's overly reliant. with his length, he could develop a really nice leg attack. he doesn't look unathletic. very few have been able to shut down his fireman's, so he keeps going to it.
Agree. If he never develops a second move, Carl will have somebody beating him with one arm behind his back!
Actually YOU brought up McCort. Also, this is a free board so YOU didn't pay anything to post here.
You brought them up. Your whole angle was to bash them. Get a life. This board doesn’t need weirdos like you.
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A very high paced and dominant wrestler who relies heavily on a firemans but the over reliance on it bites him against the top guys ... I can't put my finger on it but this somehow seems familiar.
I totally agree. It’s hard at that age to stop doing things that are working to develop other areas. Hell, it’s hard at any age. I think he is young enough and surrounded by smart people to where he will realize he needs develop a go to leg attack and not always go slide-by or carry. He’s still just a freshman! I can’t believe how diverse his skill set is for his age and when he does pick up a leg attack or 2 it’s going to be scary for these other kids. The thing I’m most interested in is how big he ends up getting. His frame reminds me of DT and even Cael when they were in high school
I think it’s silly to say the Gibson’s regressed, they just can’t rely on physically dominating kids anymore. But they’re still at a pretty high level.
As for Bassett, I was worried about him peaking early but I think it’s impossible to look at his 2021 loss to Knox to where he was at Super 32 this year and Ironman and say he hasn’t improved.
As for Bassett, I was worried about him peaking early but I think it’s impossible to look at his 2021 loss to Knox to where he was at Super 32 this year and Ironman and say he hasn’t improved.
A relevant discussion topic for sure, but also an example of why I think it's a blessing that none of these kids can be recruited until they are juniors.
If he ends up at PSU you know he is going to learn an entire series off of a single move, the ankle pick.
This you? https://bwi.forums.rivals.com/threads/lehigh-match-thread.327929/page-3#post-6218200
Just busting your chops, bro!
That version of Max Dean does not win a national title and probably doesn’t make the podium. I stand by that.
I also don’t think that version of Max shows up in March. Not like he forgot how to wrestle. Just isn’t (wasn’t?) wrestling well.
He’ll have either Cardenas or Bastida in NOLA. Both will be a big test. Bastida is a brutal matchup IMO.
So, getting back to my original point, is no one going to acknowledge that the smaller Raney has a huge upside? Again, does not have the facilities, partners, or coaching of Bassett, but gave him everything he could handle. So are none of you going to admit that IF Raney had those same opportunites, he would beat Bassett? Recruiting is about ceilings of the kids you are chasing, and IMO both Raney's have HUGE upsides because they are not in a prime wrestling area or state.
Also, you recruit both the wrestler and the parents, so don't be so sure about everyone chasing certain kids. Some don't want the hassle or drama
Also, you recruit both the wrestler and the parents, so don't be so sure about everyone chasing certain kids. Some don't want the hassle or drama
I think everyone generally acknowledges that the Raneys could end up very good.
"McCourt kids regressed over their high school years" - Bassett, Forrest, Herring are 1 month into their high school careers. Lmao
That isn't what he is looking for. Acknowledging the Raney kids are pretty good isn't the desired feedback someone is looking for.
The Gibsons, Bassetts and other McCort kids are overrated, underskilled, products of a cheating, self-promoting narcissist. Now he will be satisfied.
Cael is notoriously a slow player for some recruits. That's pretty established. For good reason, where a kid is as a sophomore is obviously not the be all end all.
But some cases, you can spot a kid is a superstar from a mile away. Like @CSauertiegPSU says, if a kid is winning early and doing it through a variety of attacks and pace, that's a very good sign. Jax Forrest passes that test easily. Joe Sealey did as well obviously. You can tell if a kid is winning because he's stronger than the average 106-113. That doesn't mean they're at their ceiling but it'll become apparent later when other kids catch up in strength. And even then, the main thing you watch next is if a kid adjusts and improves.
On the flip side, you have some major late bloomers. Think about where Levi Haines was as a sophomore vs senior. Crookham was straight bullying him as a sophomore strength wise. Some kids adjust to growth differently once they fill out. There's also cases like Adam Buseillo where unfortunately (combined with injuries) the growth kind of hurts.
For the most part we're lucky because obviously PSU and Cael sells itself and we can jump in the 11th hour for some kids and move to the top (Starocci obviously a notorious example, Braeden Davis had a Final 5 without PSU before Cael decided he wanted to recruit him and we moved right to the top) It does backfire at times (do we possibly get Mendez if we recruited him harder earlier?) but hard to argue we're not getting who we need to win titles (duh lol)
But some cases, you can spot a kid is a superstar from a mile away. Like @CSauertiegPSU says, if a kid is winning early and doing it through a variety of attacks and pace, that's a very good sign. Jax Forrest passes that test easily. Joe Sealey did as well obviously. You can tell if a kid is winning because he's stronger than the average 106-113. That doesn't mean they're at their ceiling but it'll become apparent later when other kids catch up in strength. And even then, the main thing you watch next is if a kid adjusts and improves.
On the flip side, you have some major late bloomers. Think about where Levi Haines was as a sophomore vs senior. Crookham was straight bullying him as a sophomore strength wise. Some kids adjust to growth differently once they fill out. There's also cases like Adam Buseillo where unfortunately (combined with injuries) the growth kind of hurts.
For the most part we're lucky because obviously PSU and Cael sells itself and we can jump in the 11th hour for some kids and move to the top (Starocci obviously a notorious example, Braeden Davis had a Final 5 without PSU before Cael decided he wanted to recruit him and we moved right to the top) It does backfire at times (do we possibly get Mendez if we recruited him harder earlier?) but hard to argue we're not getting who we need to win titles (duh lol)
Recruiting is an art not a science. The part that is hard to see and measure it the grit factor. How will a kid bounce back after a loss. How will they take a beating. It doesn't matter that field from athletics to academics it isn't all about talent, coaching and ability. Or brains, teaching and aptitude. Sometimes it is about being to damn stubborn to be told you can't and going out and proving you can. I spoke to a group of high school juniors and seniors that think they want to be engineers. I basically told them they were big fish swimming in a little pond and be prepared to swim in a bigger lake filled will a lot of big fish. When you sit in your freshman engineering orientation and realize nearly every one of those kids has a 4.0 and was top 5% of their class you are just one of many smart kids. The difference is are you willing to gut it out. Many of these kids have been told they are brilliant and wonderful to the point "their poop don't stink." That they wilt when they see red on a test. Similar with some of the top recruits. Are they coachable. Can they have a short memory after a loss? Can they battle back and be a backside warrior for third? Can they adapt mid match when something doesn't work? If you take away one thing something else has to open up.
We had a very good 195 lb kid. He was big strong good athlete and very capable. He loved a cross face series. And in fairness was good at it. But by his senior year he was scouted to the point it wasn't working all that well for him. Because kids were turning away from his cross face we tried to get him to jump sides and sink a deep half. He had the long leverage to make it work. I will never forget his answer. "I run a cross face, a half is for freshmen." I don't think any of these kids are anywhere this uncoachable but it begs the point can they adapt.
One of my favorite matches of Nolf. Pantelo in a dual. Pantelo was trying to keep it close. Nolf put a ride on him that was Zain like brutal. Just plain nasty. It showed me that for all of his win dixie high flyer fun stuff he could be as basic as he needed to be and win by whatever means necessary.
My opinion not that any of your or especially Cael cares. Recruit guys that are students of the game. That love to learn, innovate and get better. That aren't afraid to try and do something new. Challenge themselves by saying you can only use each type of takedown once in a match. You have to use single, double, high c, slide by, etc. One of my boys had a brutal power half from top. His coach told him he couldn't go to it until the third period, or he had turned a kid in 2 other combinations. It was a way to add diversity to his game. He lost a couple matches because he got behind early trying new things. But come tournament time he was ready.
We had a very good 195 lb kid. He was big strong good athlete and very capable. He loved a cross face series. And in fairness was good at it. But by his senior year he was scouted to the point it wasn't working all that well for him. Because kids were turning away from his cross face we tried to get him to jump sides and sink a deep half. He had the long leverage to make it work. I will never forget his answer. "I run a cross face, a half is for freshmen." I don't think any of these kids are anywhere this uncoachable but it begs the point can they adapt.
One of my favorite matches of Nolf. Pantelo in a dual. Pantelo was trying to keep it close. Nolf put a ride on him that was Zain like brutal. Just plain nasty. It showed me that for all of his win dixie high flyer fun stuff he could be as basic as he needed to be and win by whatever means necessary.
My opinion not that any of your or especially Cael cares. Recruit guys that are students of the game. That love to learn, innovate and get better. That aren't afraid to try and do something new. Challenge themselves by saying you can only use each type of takedown once in a match. You have to use single, double, high c, slide by, etc. One of my boys had a brutal power half from top. His coach told him he couldn't go to it until the third period, or he had turned a kid in 2 other combinations. It was a way to add diversity to his game. He lost a couple matches because he got behind early trying new things. But come tournament time he was ready.
If recruiting is an art, Cael is making the Sistine Chapel.
It’s not exactly a secret or anything unique, but it’s been said time and again that PSU likes to recruit kids who have interests beyond wrestling.
Oftentimes that’s religion but not always. The idea is that if you lose a match or things aren’t going your way it’s not the end of the world.
Similarly, they recruit kids who enjoy the process of getting better as much as they enjoy winning for the same type of reasons.
Oftentimes that’s religion but not always. The idea is that if you lose a match or things aren’t going your way it’s not the end of the world.
Similarly, they recruit kids who enjoy the process of getting better as much as they enjoy winning for the same type of reasons.
Can HR spare a @johnstownsteel?
Great stuff. And the thing is we might not even know the answer on a top recruit for a couple years into their college careers. The one that I wish would be wearing the blue-and-white is Meyer Shapiro. Not sure why he doesn't get talked about on here more, but to me he is a generational talent.
Shapiro was discussed plenty before he committed to Cornell.
It might be easier if you just give us a comprehensive list of guys we should talk about more...
Cael has a measuring stick he trusts for deciding whether or not a kid is one that just keeps coming, or wilts.
It seems to be fairly accurate.
It seems to be fairly accurate.
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