What a focking fockstick idiot show this board has turned into. I hope you're all proud to be Penn Staters. Way to stick together.
Reality
- Thread starter DrJC
- Start date
When I get some time I am going to do an analysis. Here in Ohio over 50% of those that died were over 80. 75% of all those that died were in nursing homes (already sick and weak). The Cleveland paper said deaths in this range were only 10% worse than non pandemic years. Of the rest, you have to consider’ opportunity cost’. Buy that the number that would have died from common flu or other. My bet is that we are in the 20,000 range of deaths by this pandemic.
YOU CANNOT MAKE PUBLIC POLICY BASED ON ANECDOTES. The facts are that COVID is statistically of minimal harm to young, otherwise healthy people. Please tell me that you are not a doctor of medicine.
Every thread on this board has become a game thread with a bonus of politics and Web MD doctors. It's focking pathetic.
DrJC, thanks for your rational post here. Your mistake was expecting anything resembling rationality and discussion from the masses on this board. As you know, most medical doctors are oriented to saving lives.
Playing a sport for entertainment purposes while putting even a few young people in harm's way (stay tuned for long-term impacts to come), is absurd to most practicing physicians. One of the fascinating dynamics with the B1G decision is that two universities are led by medical doctors. They have a huge vested interest in the finances of college football, yet they realize their duty is to educate and protect student athletes first.
CTE, broken necks, broken bones, etc. Why do these medical doctor, university presidents ever let their student-athletes play football?
Maybe obvious to you but not to many others. I think we can deny anything we do not like or scares us - things that we cannot control, that threaten us or our lifestyles. There was just a report of a Georgia school that opened and no requirement for masks. Over a dozen children were diagnosed with Covid and the school was closed. The argument that children will not suffer because of this illness is somewhat true in the sense that they may not develop active symptoms. But they are carriers who can transmit to teachers, parents, and others whom they come into contact with. And by the way, there have been reported deaths of young children from Covid, but fortunately the numbers are low. Recent research has suggested that this low incidence of infection may be attributable to inoculation for Pertussis (check on Internet), which does have a protective function against other pulmonary infections as well. Research not conclusive. As far as attributing deaths to Covid when there were probably other diseases that were primary - a few maybe. But that is just a comfortable rationalization for denying what is really going on. When was the last time you witnessed freezer trucks lined up in the parking lots of hospitals to handle the bodies of the dead, as the morgues were overloaded? That is not hysteria - that is reality. When was the last time ER doctors and nurses were working 24 hours straight to handle the cases of Covid? When have hospitals had to cancel routine surgery in order to care for Covid patients? Never to all those questions.
Be clear, I want college football. I have been a diehard PSU fan since 1962 and a season ticker holder for decades. But I do not want to put someone's son in jeopardy because I want my football fix. That is selfish and immature. And I surely understand the desire for a player to have a season and a coach to see the fruits of his efforts as well. They have dedicated themselves to practicing and getting psyched for the season. But this illness is too deadly (regardless of what some may say) and far too transmittable. The effective short term strategy until a vaccine or viable treatment regimen is: quarantine, masks, social distancing, and hand washing. And please, no more ridiculous analogies to car accidents and such. I am signing off as I hoped for a discussion regarding the different perspectives on the shutdown. Not, a litany of insults and childish comments. Disagree, but state your case in a way that makes it at least reasonable. I have my opinion - but it is just that - an opinion. I am not the font of all knowledge. Appreciate your comments WestSide Lion
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He stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night.
At risk of a barrage of silly, poorly considered responses, I will share some thoughts after a night's sleep. I am very saddened by the loss of Big Ten football. The prospect of not seeing my alma mater on Saturday, no White-outs, no gathering with local PSU alums to watch the game, etc. is disheartening. Actually, I wish they had waited a little longer before calling it a day. But that is a WISH. Wishes are often disconnected from reality and are an expression of personal, sometimes narcissistic needs. They always should be subject to reality before being expressed as anything other than a wish.
The fact is that this virus has killed over 160,000 and rising daily. And, in case you did not listen to this morning's news, 10 football players from the Big Ten were stricken with myocarditis from Covid. That could permanently effect their physical ability and possibly their potential NFL careers. Kirk Herbstreit reported on the Paul Finebaum program that over 20 Clemson football players tested positive for Covid (his son is on the team). How that will play out - we don't know. And not knowing is one of the problems. How much risk should we assume, especially sense we have demonstrated that masks, handwashing, social distancing and quarantining does contain the virus. Do you appreciate the risk we asking someone else's son to assume so that we can have our Saturday pleasure and excitement?
I do not think that PSU wanted to sacrifice 100 million or so in revenue. It will take some time to recoup that money and the programs it supported. Also, I appreciate that this will effect the economy in SC as well as many communities in Cental PA. Then again, as I stated previously, they have no problem gouging by raising motel rates thru the ceiling. But there are others that will get hurt as there are businesses all over the country that are experiencing hardship or even closing due to the quarantine. That is truly unfortunate. I guess it comes down to (in my opinion) dollars versus the value of a life.
I listened to fans, mostly from Alabama, Clemson, and Arkansas on the Paul Finebaum show clamoring about no football. They talked about the unfairness, the loss of their entertainment, etc. They even commented that "so what if there is a risk." I heard the highly questionable comments of Lou Holtz: "People died invading the beaches of Normandy - but they still did it." Brilliant analogy Lou. It says everything.
Fans, coaches, university presidents, athletic directors, and of course the players all hate the shutdown. Understandable - no problem with their angst and their wish to have a season. It is my wish as well. But the uncertainty of the infections and the future of this illness had to come into a decision regarding the future. If I have it right, Micha Parsons opted out a few weeks ago because of fear of infection and transmitting it to his 2 year old son. And that was before any decision not to play was made. He was justifiably worried about his well-being and that of his son.
Let's see how this plays out. There will be football in the future. This is not the end. It asks for a respite and an adjustment until the risk is negligible and we can safely put young people on the field.
The fact is that this virus has killed over 160,000 and rising daily. And, in case you did not listen to this morning's news, 10 football players from the Big Ten were stricken with myocarditis from Covid. That could permanently effect their physical ability and possibly their potential NFL careers. Kirk Herbstreit reported on the Paul Finebaum program that over 20 Clemson football players tested positive for Covid (his son is on the team). How that will play out - we don't know. And not knowing is one of the problems. How much risk should we assume, especially sense we have demonstrated that masks, handwashing, social distancing and quarantining does contain the virus. Do you appreciate the risk we asking someone else's son to assume so that we can have our Saturday pleasure and excitement?
I do not think that PSU wanted to sacrifice 100 million or so in revenue. It will take some time to recoup that money and the programs it supported. Also, I appreciate that this will effect the economy in SC as well as many communities in Cental PA. Then again, as I stated previously, they have no problem gouging by raising motel rates thru the ceiling. But there are others that will get hurt as there are businesses all over the country that are experiencing hardship or even closing due to the quarantine. That is truly unfortunate. I guess it comes down to (in my opinion) dollars versus the value of a life.
I listened to fans, mostly from Alabama, Clemson, and Arkansas on the Paul Finebaum show clamoring about no football. They talked about the unfairness, the loss of their entertainment, etc. They even commented that "so what if there is a risk." I heard the highly questionable comments of Lou Holtz: "People died invading the beaches of Normandy - but they still did it." Brilliant analogy Lou. It says everything.
Fans, coaches, university presidents, athletic directors, and of course the players all hate the shutdown. Understandable - no problem with their angst and their wish to have a season. It is my wish as well. But the uncertainty of the infections and the future of this illness had to come into a decision regarding the future. If I have it right, Micha Parsons opted out a few weeks ago because of fear of infection and transmitting it to his 2 year old son. And that was before any decision not to play was made. He was justifiably worried about his well-being and that of his son.
Let's see how this plays out. There will be football in the future. This is not the end. It asks for a respite and an adjustment until the risk is negligible and we can safely put young people on the field.
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Our society's addiction to sports is on full display here. I fully understand the irony of posting this on a college football message board. We are so addicted to sports that economies of entire regions is dependent upon it. Sports to many is not a secondary activity of universities but is the main purpose. That is made plain by those suggesting that there should not be classes if there is no football. Deprioritizing sports may be ultimately what we need not just in regards to the virus but in general.
I think you are missing the point of classes/football. The point is that if football isn't safe (a controlled environment with testing at least twice a week) how can going to class be safe? It is one or the other.
I wonder what risk reduction if any is actually happening by canceling football? It's not like the kids won't be doing anything. For instance, a lot of folks are worried about the risk of airline travel. MIT did study on flying and COVID-19. The risks associated with a two hour flight were the same as the risk of two waking hours doing anything else.
Univ. of Wisconsin study assessed the effect of school closures and shut downs on those of high school age. It found the rate of depression increased from 31% to 68%. Physical activity fell by one half.
This is important because decreased activity and increased stress lead to an impaired immune response. 2014 Journal of Immunology, found that children with high stress family situations had a suppressed immune response, and low spontaneous activity of T cells and other white blood cells. Also they had higher levels of cytokines. This increased level can lead to the cytokine storms we have heard about with COVID.
Studies have also shown that childhood stress can lead to deregulated immune responses in adulthood, like rheumatoid arthritis and diabetes. Stress also dampens the immune response to vaccines.
A new CDC study finds that COVID-19 patients with anxiety and depression were 2.3x as likely to remind sick 14 to 21 days after the initial positive tests.
Lockdowns and shutdowns may just be trading one set of potential problems for another.
I would like to know that one as well.
So would 2 of my friends that are currently Profs at PSU. They do have some online classes but they also have some they are teaching in person.
I also think that was Scott Frost's position and I cant say I disagree with him.
HUH? How is playing football putting them "in harm's way"? Where are the stats that say you have a greater chance of catching the virus playing football than not playing? So since they aren't playing, are we sure that no player will get the virus? What, you think the players are just going to sit in their dorm rooms on Saturdays in the fall and stare at the walls since there are no games to play?
So the only way the players could get the virus is by playing football? Is that your stance?
I know very clearly and precisely what I mean.
You read and it goes through your filter of crap, and comes out fitting your agenda.
For instance, only a moron would think I was trying to be "internet tough guy".
I guess that makes you a moron.
Well I agreed with DRJC, To you I have one thing to say -- Btfsplk (as in Joe Btfsplk).
That’s been my biggest thought: if both teams are within a bubble, then playing each other would not be an issue. Of course, college football has separate bubbles whereas the NHL and NBA have everyone in the same bubble. I think you would still see some outbreaks, but not to the level that others have implied, like Dr Scholl’s.
Thank you West Side for this post. If he didn't know it before DrJC should now. What he's dealing with here is a flock of narcissists concerned only with their own agendas. A reflection of why we are where we are with this today.
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Talking about college age kids dying, when you and your colleagues can explain how America’s largest drug companies saturated the country with 76 billion oxycodone and hydrocodone pain pills from 2006 through 2012, killing more than a million young men and woman, while damaging countless others, then, and only then, will I take your warning on C19 as serious as you.
If a football player decides to go to a fraternity party or some other social event where there is no social distancing or mandatory masks - that is on him. That is his choice, albeit maybe a poor one. However, when the issue is one of the real and/or subtle pressure exerted by fans, coaches, local businesses, politicians, etc. to ignore the danger presented by close physical play - then that is on those who place their needs above the safety of a young man. So it is different. And yes, I know that they themselves want to play - but that zealotry may cloud their judgement and lead to a foolish decision. Again, it provides some understanding as to what Michah Parsons did in making the welfare of his son primary and his future.
Wow. I've seen some stupid ass rationalizations on this board for the last few months but this one is close to the top. Well done.
I will submit that it is SAFER to play football than go to a frat party, as all the players on the field should have been tested and would be Covid-free prior to playing the game....the kids at the frat party (probably) haven't.
In other words, the kids would be safer playing football, as long as they obey the rules during the season and keep their social distance from the parties/social gatherings, etc... during the season, as they want to keep playing. If they aren't playing, all that goes out the window - they are going to be doing what they want, and have a greater chance to catch the virus.
In my opinion, this isn't about the safety of the players - oh the schools care, but not as much as they pretend. It's all about liability - they are scared to death of being sued by a player who may get the virus. They are losing $$ as it is with no fans..The decision not to play is more about $$ than safety, IMHO, although they will never admit it.
I cannot dismiss that notion either. The issue of liability looms large. This effects not just PSU football, but also public schools. School Boards are shaking in their boots - fearful that a poor decision could bring huge lawsuits. I think that lawsuits are a reality in a litigious world.
They flatlined because they are at herd immunity. Look at Sweden, same thing happening, herd immunity. They did not lock down and have a lower fatality rate than both NY and NJ.
Florida is the third most populous state ahead of New York (and behind California and Texas); Georgia's population is greater than New Jersey! Some Doctor you are....... just make sh*t up and write it as gospel!!!
People like DrJC are why malpractice insurance rates are so high. The lack of critical thinking by that guy is amazing.
Wow.. Well done.
Wow. I've seen some stupid ass rationalizations on this board for the last few months but this one is close to the top. Well done.
Thank you.
I understand there are 2.8 million kids in PA who are between the ages of 0-18 years. Since you're interested, ask the good OP how many have kids in that age group have died from C19. Then ask how many minority athletes are about to have their dreams crushed by academics who have trouble tying their shoelaces.
My hs bff is an eye doctor in Atlanta. We make so much fun of him.Maybe he's an eye dr. like the fool in DC.
It seems that death is the only metric folks seem to use to dictate the decision here on the board. I wonder if that is how they live the rest of their lives when making decisions. People seem to forget about the other serious health conditions this creates because of impact to other organs the rest of their lives.
If it doesn't kill you right away it must be ok. If it kills you slower and in a more agonizing way thats ok. Or if it doesn't kill you but impacts your quality of life in a significantly negative way thats ok.
Or as long as kids playing football doesn't spread it to me that's ok too. I don't care about the players loved ones, friends, family etc. Just play football so I'm happy.
Listen I get it, The B1g10 may have made a hasty decision, more time was probably needed. I'm bummed out now. But I just can't get to a place where I'm that selfish and don't care about others, and their loved ones.
