Recruiting class breakdown (is the horse dead yet?)

[StinkStankStunk]

First of all, I couldn't care less where the class is "ranked"
1 - Any attempt to rank one class against another is so incredibly layered in subjectivity, that it is truly worthless
2 - If one does give weight to "rankings"....what are you going to do about it? The only thing a program or coaching staff can control is who THEY bring in to THEIR program.

With that in mind, the only sensible way - IMO - to "critique" a recruiting class is from the point of view of:

A - Program has X number of scholarships available
B - Program has Y needs....so many DBs, so many WRs etc
C - Did the program bring in quality prospects at those positions. You are never going to bat 1.000....but did you fill 90% of those needs with quality prospects - or 50%? When you were not able to fill with quality prospects, why not?

So:

PSU had +/- 20 scholarships available
Based on the existing roster, a reasonable breakdown of "needs" (IMO, and there can always be some debate):

1 QB
1TB
1 WR
1 TE
4 OL
3 DT (hopefully, with at least one more mature guy - JC or Grad Transfer)
2 DE
1 Box LB
2 Space LB
2 CB
1 S
1 Combo DB

1 PK and 1 P (if possible, 1 guy to fill both roles....to save on scholarships)

That comes out to 22 Scholarships.......and PSU ended up with 20 signees, so you know some of those "needs" were going to go unmet.
Looking on a need-by-need basis:

QB - PSU had 3 quality QB prospects in the region....Gaurantano from NJ, Haskins from MD, and Zembiec from NY. I think it is clear that the staff liked Zembiec the most.....and they signed him
Couldn't have done any better

TB - PSU was fortunate to have two of the top RB in the country right here in our "region"....Walker from NJ and Sanders from PA. PSU got Sanders, and - as the season went on it appeared to be pretty clear that he was THE most highly regarded TB in the region
Couldn't have done any better

WR - PSU was in a bit of an odd spot here.....on one hand, you would like to bring in at least 1-2 WR every year. On the other hand, PSU has a very young, talented pool of WRs currently on the roster....and more pressing needs elsewhere - and one could make the argument that ZERO WR might have been the right number for this class. The staff seemed to pretty much adopt the position that they couldn't afford many WR this year (which I think was the right call) and really only seemed to pay significant attention to the kid from Florida. He was always a long-shot.
When there were a couple scholarships available late, they grabbed the Temple commit - Darien. (FWIW, Matthews was never much of a WR prospect, and I think Darien is a MUCH better option).
Certainly didn't get any marquise guys here, but it was probably the LOWEST priority position for this class.....and Darien does have some interesting skills
Could be evaluated as an "incomplete"...or as "not applicable"....but adding Darien is a benefit.

TE - PSU needed one....and targeted 2 guys in the region, who both are quality prospects - Angeline from PA, and Dalton from MA (also may have taken a close look at a couple of the Ohio guys, but those were never realistic shots). They didn't have enough scholarships for more than one, and PSU landed Dalton.
Couldn't have done any better

OL - I would have liked to have seen 5 guys on the OL.....but there just were probably too many other needs to allow for that. The top 4 guys the staff targeted in the region, based on how PSU approached recruiting, appeared to be Menet, McGovern, Fries, and Gellerstadt. They received "verbals" from all four of them by the time summer rolled around....and held on to all of them despite a lot of attempted poaching. There were other quality prospects in the region - but PSU had no more room, and you can't lament "losing" guys that you didn't have room for anyway.
Couldn't have done any better

Overall, offensively, this class was OUSTANDING in filling PSU's needs with quality prospects. The defensive side was a little bumpier.


DT - Huge position of need for this class....not so much for bringing in High School kids (there are some nice young kids on the roster who are "developing" at DT) - but they were faced with the much tougher task of needing some guys who could provide immediate help. That is REALLY tough to do at DT or along the OL....you need to sign one of the VERY FEW High School kids who might be capable of contributing as a freshman, or find one of the VERY FEW JuCos who might be available.
The reasonable possibilities wrt guys who might provide some immediate help were probably limited to two - Gary from NJ, and Chavis the JuCo. It was pretty clear early on that Gary just wasn't interested (unfortunate).....Chavis MIGHT be a real stretch academically - and I won't get into that - but, athletically, he is a real critical catch. Bringing in the 2nd JuCo (who has THREE years of eligibility left) was a bonus.
The issues with Colon, Dwumfor, and Diabote were unfortunate...but the biggest need was for the "immediate help" guys, and we do already have some real good youngsters who are likely a year or two away. FWIW, I like Shelton from Ohio more than either Colon or Dwumfor....so I really don't lament not signing those two. I do think Diabote was a real nice prospect who would have been nice to add to the roster..
Not nearly the "disaster" that some want to view it as, and if Chavis and Thrift can buy some time for the young guys already on the roster, it will be a big plus.
Overall, solid results at a position were the needs were going to be nearly impossible to meet

DE - Needed a Rush End and a Strong Side End. Got the top Rush End in the region (one of the best in the country) in Simmons, and a real nice Strong Side End in Joseph.
Couldn't have done any better.

Box LB - Needed one....didn't get one. Was a thin year for LB prospects in the region, and Ferns was probably the only legit high-end option....but tough to overcome that family connection. Maybe the Grad Transfer from Illinois will eventually join on - which would solve the immediate issue....but this has to be a high priority item for next year.
Unmet need - has to be a 2017 priority

Space LB - Needed two. Thin year in the region for LB, not a lot of high-end options, but PSU did get two solid prospects - Brown from MD and Toney from IMHOTEP. I don't expect either of these guys to be ready as Freshman (which was also the case with the 2015 kids - but they HAD TO be rushed in there due to lack of depth and injuries). Hopefully, the injury bug will not be so hard on the LBers this year, and both these kids can redshirt.
Overall, OK....and - considering the scarcity of LB prospects in the region, pretty good.

CB - Needed two. Landed a high quality prospect in McPherson, and - for a time - appeared to have a second in Hill. Alas, Hill ended up staying home. A second would have been really nice, but the current depth chart is both young and talented (as opposed to the situation at LB), so there is time to "make up" in the next class.
Like LB, DB has to be a high priority for 2017.

Combo DB - Needed one, and initially targeted Hamlin as that guy.....when that didn't work out, signed Johnson. I think Johnson is a quality recruit, and I was never a huge fan of Hamlin and I do not think he is a HUGE loss (I think he is a good prospect, but he is not on the same level as a Tyler Boyd, or even a Whitehead, IMO. Those two guys could be special)
Would have been nice to get the PA kid, but Johnson will do fine

S - Needed one....got left at the altar by Pryts.
Again, LB and DB are the high priorities for 2017

P and PK - Huge priorities, and clearly worthy of offering scholarships to quality freshmen recruits. Gilikin and Barbir are outstanding additions. Like many, I am AT LEAST as pleased to have Barbir sign rather than the Diva from Michigan.
Couldn't have done any better


Overall, given the number of scholarships available, and the needs of the roster.....one damn fine class.

One of the most interesting - and promising - things that was revealed with this class is just how INCREDIBLY prepared this coaching staff was. When "shit happened" they seemed to be one step ahead of the game with a counter-move.

Bringing in the two more mature DTs was a critical strategic step.

The offensive side of the ball....what could anyone find to complain about? Aside from the thought that "since we did bring in a WR, would have been nice if he was a STUD"...I can't think of any reasonable complaints - and, FWIW, I think the Darien kid has some nice skills and will eventually contribute (and, of course, WR was the lowest priority spot in the entire 2016 class)
On the defensive side...there was no way to repair the DT spot in just one year (kinda' like the OL situation we faced the last couple of years), but I think the staff did a nice job of making the best of things and trying to find some immediate patches. LB and DB both could have benefitted from some additional numbers - but you only have what you have to work with, if we didn't have such a dire need for a PK and a P, they could have used more scholarships there......but, the key is to jump on those spots aggressively for 2017.

 

[The Spin Meister]

Great post. Filling areas of need is much more important than counting stars and bragging that we have more stars. Doesn't do much good to have five 5 star running backs when only two are gonna play. And the transition from high school to big time college ball is such a huge leap that most ratings systems are bunk.

In spite of a huge number of issues, the staff filled most of the needs with quality players. They lost a few but moved quickly to fill the roster. That shows we have still have juice in recruiting kids and CJF + staff are good recruiters.

And a new OC that should be better at utilizing the talent on the roster will make big strides not only in on-the-field- performance but help in future recruiting. Gotta wear ..... as someone else posted!

 

[PSU20]

Only suggestion, Sanders is probably the best TB in the country, no doubt. So glad we got him and hung onto him with all the poachers hitting on him for the past year!

 

[MrDibbs]

Great post ....

This recruiting thing is simply trying to stock the cupboard. There were positions of need from last season's roster and for the most part, those positions have gotten better - but remember that these "kids" have yet practice, scrimmage, play football in Happy Valley.

The long faces on this (and other) boards are reacting to the last couple weeks recruiting news which was decidedly bad for PSU. Yea, we lost kids who were never committed, lost one who supposedly was committed and the local media (here in Pittsburgh) made enough of a deal out of it that it became an issue. Be happy with what stocks our shelves and be on the lookout for more.

The fact that Franklin held back so many kids last season (while also playing so many true freshmen) makes me optimistic. This team has good, young football players and this team will show some improvement in 2016.

The most important thing to keep in the back of our mind is that the described "positions-of-need in 2017" need to be addressed by the coaching staff and recruiters with a bit more urgency than normal.

 

[bmw199]

First of all, I couldn't care less where the class is "ranked"
1 - Any attempt to rank one class against another is so incredibly layered in subjectivity, that it is truly worthless
2 - If one does give weight to "rankings"....what are you going to do about it? The only thing a program or coaching staff can control is who THEY bring in to THEIR program.

With that in mind, the only sensible way - IMO - to "critique" a recruiting class is from the point of view of:

A - Program has X number of scholarships available
B - Program has Y needs....so many DBs, so many WRs etc
C - Did the program bring in quality prospects at those positions. You are never going to bat 1.000....but did you fill 90% of those needs with quality prospects - or 50%? When you were not able to fill with quality prospects, why not?

So:

PSU had +/- 20 scholarships available
Based on the existing roster, a reasonable breakdown of "needs" (IMO, and there can always be some debate):

1 QB
1TB
1 WR
1 TE
4 OL
3 DT (hopefully, with at least one more mature guy - JC or Grad Transfer)
2 DE
1 Box LB
2 Space LB
2 CB
1 S
1 Combo DB

1 PK and 1 P (if possible, 1 guy to fill both roles....to save on scholarships)

That comes out to 22 Scholarships.......and PSU ended up with 20 signees, so you know some of those "needs" were going to go unmet.
Looking on a need-by-need basis:

QB - PSU had 3 quality QB prospects in the region....Gaurantano from NJ, Haskins from MD, and Zembiec from NY. I think it is clear that the staff liked Zembiec the most.....and they signed him
Couldn't have done any better

TB - PSU was fortunate to have two of the top RB in the country right here in our "region"....Walker from NJ and Sanders from PA. PSU got Sanders, and - as the season went on it appeared to be pretty clear that he was THE most highly regarded TB in the region
Couldn't have done any better

WR - PSU was in a bit of an odd spot here.....on one hand, you would like to bring in at least 1-2 WR every year. On the other hand, PSU has a very young, talented pool of WRs currently on the roster....and more pressing needs elsewhere - and one could make the argument that ZERO WR might have been the right number for this class. The staff seemed to pretty much adopt the position that they couldn't afford many WR this year (which I think was the right call) and really only seemed to pay significant attention to the kid from Florida. He was always a long-shot.
When there were a couple scholarships available late, they grabbed the Temple commit - Darien. (FWIW, Matthews was never much of a WR prospect, and I think Darien is a MUCH better option).
Certainly didn't get any marquise guys here, but it was probably the LOWEST priority position for this class.....and Darien does have some interesting skills
Could be evaluated as an "incomplete"...or as "not applicable"....but adding Darien is a benefit.

TE - PSU needed one....and targeted 2 guys in the region, who both are quality prospects - Angeline from PA, and Dalton from MA (also may have taken a close look at a couple of the Ohio guys, but those were never realistic shots). They didn't have enough scholarships for more than one, and PSU landed Dalton.
Couldn't have done any better

OL - I would have liked to have seen 5 guys on the OL.....but there just were probably too many other needs to allow for that. The top 4 guys the staff targeted in the region, based on how PSU approached recruiting, appeared to be Menet, McGovern, Fries, and Gellerstadt. They received "verbals" from all four of them by the time summer rolled around....and held on to all of them despite a lot of attempted poaching. There were other quality prospects in the region - but PSU had no more room, and you can't lament "losing" guys that you didn't have room for anyway.
Couldn't have done any better

Overall, offensively, this class was OUSTANDING in filling PSU's needs with quality prospects. The defensive side was a little bumpier.


DT - Huge position of need for this class....not so much for bringing in High School kids (there are some nice young kids on the roster who are "developing" at DT) - but they were faced with the much tougher task of needing some guys who could provide immediate help. That is REALLY tough to do at DT or along the OL....you need to sign one of the VERY FEW High School kids who might be capable of contributing as a freshman, or find one of the VERY FEW JuCos who might be available.
The reasonable possibilities wrt guys who might provide some immediate help were probably limited to two - Gary from NJ, and Chavis the JuCo. It was pretty clear early on that Gary just wasn't interested (unfortunate).....Chavis MIGHT be a real stretch academically - and I won't get into that - but, athletically, he is a real critical catch. Bringing in the 2nd JuCo (who has THREE years of eligibility left) was a bonus.
The issues with Colon, Dwumfor, and Diabote were unfortunate...but the biggest need was for the "immediate help" guys, and we do already have some real good youngsters who are likely a year or two away. FWIW, I like Shelton from Ohio more than either Colon or Dwumfor....so I really don't lament not signing those two. I do think Diabote was a real nice prospect who would have been nice to add to the roster..
Not nearly the "disaster" that some want to view it as, and if Chavis and Thrift can buy some time for the young guys already on the roster, it will be a big plus.
Overall, solid results at a position were the needs were going to be nearly impossible to meet

DE - Needed a Rush End and a Strong Side End. Got the top Rush End in the region (one of the best in the country) in Simmons, and a real nice Strong Side End in Joseph.
Couldn't have done any better.

Box LB - Needed one....didn't get one. Was a thin year for LB prospects in the region, and Ferns was probably the only legit high-end option....but tough to overcome that family connection. Maybe the Grad Transfer from Illinois will eventually join on - which would solve the immediate issue....but this has to be a high priority item for next year.
Unmet need - has to be a 2017 priority

Space LB - Needed two. Thin year in the region for LB, not a lot of high-end options, but PSU did get two solid prospects - Brown from MD and Toney from IMHOTEP. I don't expect either of these guys to be ready as Freshman (which was also the case with the 2015 kids - but they HAD TO be rushed in there due to lack of depth and injuries). Hopefully, the injury bug will not be so hard on the LBers this year, and both these kids can redshirt.
Overall, OK....and - considering the scarcity of LB prospects in the region, pretty good.

CB - Needed two. Landed a high quality prospect in McPherson, and - for a time - appeared to have a second in Hill. Alas, Hill ended up staying home. A second would have been really nice, but the current depth chart is both young and talented (as opposed to the situation at LB), so there is time to "make up" in the next class.
Like LB, DB has to be a high priority for 2017.

Combo DB - Needed one, and initially targeted Hamlin as that guy.....when that didn't work out, signed Johnson. I think Johnson is a quality recruit, and I was never a huge fan of Hamlin and I do not think he is a HUGE loss (I think he is a good prospect, but he is not on the same level as a Tyler Boyd, or even a Whitehead, IMO. Those two guys could be special)
Would have been nice to get the PA kid, but Johnson will do fine

S - Needed one....got left at the altar by Pryts.
Again, LB and DB are the high priorities for 2017

P and PK - Huge priorities, and clearly worthy of offering scholarships to quality freshmen recruits. Gilikin and Barbir are outstanding additions. Like many, I am AT LEAST as pleased to have Barbir sign rather than the Diva from Michigan.
Couldn't have done any better


Overall, given the number of scholarships available, and the needs of the roster.....one damn fine class.

One of the most interesting - and promising - things that was revealed with this class is just how INCREDIBLY prepared this coaching staff was. When "shit happened" they seemed to be one step ahead of the game with a counter-move.

Bringing in the two more mature DTs was a critical strategic step.

The offensive side of the ball....what could anyone find to complain about? Aside from the thought that "since we did bring in a WR, would have been nice if he was a STUD"...I can't think of any reasonable complaints - and, FWIW, I think the Darien kid has some nice skills and will eventually contribute (and, of course, WR was the lowest priority spot in the entire 2016 class)
On the defensive side...there was no way to repair the DT spot in just one year (kinda' like the OL situation we faced the last couple of years), but I think the staff did a nice job of making the best of things and trying to find some immediate patches. LB and DB both could have benefitted from some additional numbers - but you only have what you have to work with, if we didn't have such a dire need for a PK and a P, they could have used more scholarships there......but, the key is to jump on those spots aggressively for 2017.

I agree with the Macro level analysis.

At a micro level: we'll see what the difference ends up being between Dalton and Angeline. I thought originally Angeline was a much better prospect but Dalton has definitely closed that gap for me from early this summer to now. In 2017 we will definitely take care of LB, hopefully will take care of DT, but I don't see a lot of reasonable prospects in the secondary on the board right now. Neal should be an early commit in this class, but after that not looking good. I'm not sure we are even in with another CB apart from Wade who is so deep in OSU they already have him on the depth chart.

 

[baircub1!]

First of all, I couldn't care less where the class is "ranked"
1 - Any attempt to rank one class against another is so incredibly layered in subjectivity, that it is truly worthless
2 - If one does give weight to "rankings"....what are you going to do about it? The only thing a program or coaching staff can control is who THEY bring in to THEIR program.

With that in mind, the only sensible way - IMO - to "critique" a recruiting class is from the point of view of:

A - Program has X number of scholarships available
B - Program has Y needs....so many DBs, so many WRs etc
C - Did the program bring in quality prospects at those positions. You are never going to bat 1.000....but did you fill 90% of those needs with quality prospects - or 50%? When you were not able to fill with quality prospects, why not?

So:

PSU had +/- 20 scholarships available
Based on the existing roster, a reasonable breakdown of "needs" (IMO, and there can always be some debate):

1 QB
1TB
1 WR
1 TE
4 OL
3 DT (hopefully, with at least one more mature guy - JC or Grad Transfer)
2 DE
1 Box LB
2 Space LB
2 CB
1 S
1 Combo DB

1 PK and 1 P (if possible, 1 guy to fill both roles....to save on scholarships)

That comes out to 22 Scholarships.......and PSU ended up with 20 signees, so you know some of those "needs" were going to go unmet.
Looking on a need-by-need basis:

QB - PSU had 3 quality QB prospects in the region....Gaurantano from NJ, Haskins from MD, and Zembiec from NY. I think it is clear that the staff liked Zembiec the most.....and they signed him
Couldn't have done any better

TB - PSU was fortunate to have two of the top RB in the country right here in our "region"....Walker from NJ and Sanders from PA. PSU got Sanders, and - as the season went on it appeared to be pretty clear that he was THE most highly regarded TB in the region
Couldn't have done any better

WR - PSU was in a bit of an odd spot here.....on one hand, you would like to bring in at least 1-2 WR every year. On the other hand, PSU has a very young, talented pool of WRs currently on the roster....and more pressing needs elsewhere - and one could make the argument that ZERO WR might have been the right number for this class. The staff seemed to pretty much adopt the position that they couldn't afford many WR this year (which I think was the right call) and really only seemed to pay significant attention to the kid from Florida. He was always a long-shot.
When there were a couple scholarships available late, they grabbed the Temple commit - Darien. (FWIW, Matthews was never much of a WR prospect, and I think Darien is a MUCH better option).
Certainly didn't get any marquise guys here, but it was probably the LOWEST priority position for this class.....and Darien does have some interesting skills
Could be evaluated as an "incomplete"...or as "not applicable"....but adding Darien is a benefit.

TE - PSU needed one....and targeted 2 guys in the region, who both are quality prospects - Angeline from PA, and Dalton from MA (also may have taken a close look at a couple of the Ohio guys, but those were never realistic shots). They didn't have enough scholarships for more than one, and PSU landed Dalton.
Couldn't have done any better

OL - I would have liked to have seen 5 guys on the OL.....but there just were probably too many other needs to allow for that. The top 4 guys the staff targeted in the region, based on how PSU approached recruiting, appeared to be Menet, McGovern, Fries, and Gellerstadt. They received "verbals" from all four of them by the time summer rolled around....and held on to all of them despite a lot of attempted poaching. There were other quality prospects in the region - but PSU had no more room, and you can't lament "losing" guys that you didn't have room for anyway.
Couldn't have done any better

Overall, offensively, this class was OUSTANDING in filling PSU's needs with quality prospects. The defensive side was a little bumpier.


DT - Huge position of need for this class....not so much for bringing in High School kids (there are some nice young kids on the roster who are "developing" at DT) - but they were faced with the much tougher task of needing some guys who could provide immediate help. That is REALLY tough to do at DT or along the OL....you need to sign one of the VERY FEW High School kids who might be capable of contributing as a freshman, or find one of the VERY FEW JuCos who might be available.
The reasonable possibilities wrt guys who might provide some immediate help were probably limited to two - Gary from NJ, and Chavis the JuCo. It was pretty clear early on that Gary just wasn't interested (unfortunate).....Chavis MIGHT be a real stretch academically - and I won't get into that - but, athletically, he is a real critical catch. Bringing in the 2nd JuCo (who has THREE years of eligibility left) was a bonus.
The issues with Colon, Dwumfor, and Diabote were unfortunate...but the biggest need was for the "immediate help" guys, and we do already have some real good youngsters who are likely a year or two away. FWIW, I like Shelton from Ohio more than either Colon or Dwumfor....so I really don't lament not signing those two. I do think Diabote was a real nice prospect who would have been nice to add to the roster..
Not nearly the "disaster" that some want to view it as, and if Chavis and Thrift can buy some time for the young guys already on the roster, it will be a big plus.
Overall, solid results at a position were the needs were going to be nearly impossible to meet

DE - Needed a Rush End and a Strong Side End. Got the top Rush End in the region (one of the best in the country) in Simmons, and a real nice Strong Side End in Joseph.
Couldn't have done any better.

Box LB - Needed one....didn't get one. Was a thin year for LB prospects in the region, and Ferns was probably the only legit high-end option....but tough to overcome that family connection. Maybe the Grad Transfer from Illinois will eventually join on - which would solve the immediate issue....but this has to be a high priority item for next year.
Unmet need - has to be a 2017 priority

Space LB - Needed two. Thin year in the region for LB, not a lot of high-end options, but PSU did get two solid prospects - Brown from MD and Toney from IMHOTEP. I don't expect either of these guys to be ready as Freshman (which was also the case with the 2015 kids - but they HAD TO be rushed in there due to lack of depth and injuries). Hopefully, the injury bug will not be so hard on the LBers this year, and both these kids can redshirt.
Overall, OK....and - considering the scarcity of LB prospects in the region, pretty good.

CB - Needed two. Landed a high quality prospect in McPherson, and - for a time - appeared to have a second in Hill. Alas, Hill ended up staying home. A second would have been really nice, but the current depth chart is both young and talented (as opposed to the situation at LB), so there is time to "make up" in the next class.
Like LB, DB has to be a high priority for 2017.

Combo DB - Needed one, and initially targeted Hamlin as that guy.....when that didn't work out, signed Johnson. I think Johnson is a quality recruit, and I was never a huge fan of Hamlin and I do not think he is a HUGE loss (I think he is a good prospect, but he is not on the same level as a Tyler Boyd, or even a Whitehead, IMO. Those two guys could be special)
Would have been nice to get the PA kid, but Johnson will do fine

S - Needed one....got left at the altar by Pryts.
Again, LB and DB are the high priorities for 2017

P and PK - Huge priorities, and clearly worthy of offering scholarships to quality freshmen recruits. Gilikin and Barbir are outstanding additions. Like many, I am AT LEAST as pleased to have Barbir sign rather than the Diva from Michigan.
Couldn't have done any better


Overall, given the number of scholarships available, and the needs of the roster.....one damn fine class.

One of the most interesting - and promising - things that was revealed with this class is just how INCREDIBLY prepared this coaching staff was. When "shit happened" they seemed to be one step ahead of the game with a counter-move.

Bringing in the two more mature DTs was a critical strategic step.

The offensive side of the ball....what could anyone find to complain about? Aside from the thought that "since we did bring in a WR, would have been nice if he was a STUD"...I can't think of any reasonable complaints - and, FWIW, I think the Darien kid has some nice skills and will eventually contribute (and, of course, WR was the lowest priority spot in the entire 2016 class)
On the defensive side...there was no way to repair the DT spot in just one year (kinda' like the OL situation we faced the last couple of years), but I think the staff did a nice job of making the best of things and trying to find some immediate patches. LB and DB both could have benefitted from some additional numbers - but you only have what you have to work with, if we didn't have such a dire need for a PK and a P, they could have used more scholarships there......but, the key is to jump on those spots aggressively for 2017.

Great analysis ! I would add... And this was noted yesterday by ex Texas Head Coach... These rankings and recruiting classes right now mean nothing... UNTIL this fall... And Next year...

Nono of this has any idea who will " make it"... Prosper or drop off.

ESPN loves the hype because it just means they get to develop and process MORE " content@ to sell advertisers and " hopefully" maintain their subscriber base or gather more subs of which is a major major concern of theirs right now.

It's ALL about the money. Period. Rankings... Recruiting... If there was no money around or available... No one would really care except enthusiasts.

Apologize if I'm off topic here... Just have to remember can never lose sight that this is ALL about money which is the only reason schools like Bama , OSU , Michigan doing what they do best...

Schools like Harvard not as concerned because they along with other Ivy schools have enormous endowment funds.

My .02...

 

[StinkStankStunk]

The most important thing to keep in the back of our mind is that the described "positions-of-need in 2017" need to be addressed by the coaching staff and recruiters with a bit more urgency than normal.

Definitely some positions of serious "need" for next year....that have to be addressed.

But - compared to any of the last 5 years - the 2017 situation has far fewer "dire needs" than we have seen since the shit hit than fan in November 2011.

We are probably 80% of the way back from where we were in 2013/14/15/16, which was - - - "Holy Crap! We have 20 leaks and only 5 fingers!" - - - - to a "normal" recruiting situation.

Aside from the "positions of need" challenges, the CJF staff will also be faced with a situation where almost all of the higher-end 2017 Pennsylvania prospects are WPIAL and other WPA kids (that hasn't been the case the last few years)......which are much tougher gets for PSU than the Central and Eastern PA kids.
I would think that Smith, Morehead, Pry, etc will be getting VERY familiar with the WPA high school coaches, and all the cities and towns between Monroeville and the PA/OH line.

 

[MrDibbs]

Definitely some positions of serious "need" for next year....that have to be addressed.

But - compared to any of the last 5 years - the 2017 situation has far fewer "dire needs" than we have seen since the shit hit than fan in November 2011.

We are probably 80% of the way back from where we were in 2013/14/15/16, which was - - - "Holy Crap! We have 20 leaks and only 5 fingers!" - - - - to a "normal" recruiting situation.

Aside from the "positions of need" challenges, the CJF staff will also be faced with a situation where almost all of the higher-end 2017 Pennsylvania prospects are WPIAL and other WPA kids (that hasn't been the case the last few years)......which are much tougher gets for PSU than the Central and Eastern PA kids.
I would think that Smith, Morehead, Pry, etc will be getting VERY familiar with the WPA high school coaches, and all the cities and towns between Monroeville and the PA/OH line.

I agree with what you say. The differences between 2013 thru 2015 and today (when thinking about dire needs) and great - that's how good of a job Franklin has done stocking the shelves.

Can't remark on next year's recruits quite yet. I suspect that Narduzzi will be hiring a bunch of bricklayers trying to rebuild Wanny's Wall.

 

[Obliviax]

First of all, I couldn't care less where the class is "ranked"
1 - Any attempt to rank one class against another is so incredibly layered in subjectivity, that it is truly worthless
2 - If one does give weight to "rankings"....what are you going to do about it? The only thing a program or coaching staff can control is who THEY bring in to THEIR program.

With that in mind, the only sensible way - IMO - to "critique" a recruiting class is from the point of view of:

A - Program has X number of scholarships available
B - Program has Y needs....so many DBs, so many WRs etc
C - Did the program bring in quality prospects at those positions. You are never going to bat 1.000....but did you fill 90% of those needs with quality prospects - or 50%? When you were not able to fill with quality prospects, why not?

So:

PSU had +/- 20 scholarships available
Based on the existing roster, a reasonable breakdown of "needs" (IMO, and there can always be some debate):

1 QB
1TB
1 WR
1 TE
4 OL
3 DT (hopefully, with at least one more mature guy - JC or Grad Transfer)
2 DE
1 Box LB
2 Space LB
2 CB
1 S
1 Combo DB

1 PK and 1 P (if possible, 1 guy to fill both roles....to save on scholarships)

That comes out to 22 Scholarships.......and PSU ended up with 20 signees, so you know some of those "needs" were going to go unmet.
Looking on a need-by-need basis:

QB - PSU had 3 quality QB prospects in the region....Gaurantano from NJ, Haskins from MD, and Zembiec from NY. I think it is clear that the staff liked Zembiec the most.....and they signed him
Couldn't have done any better

TB - PSU was fortunate to have two of the top RB in the country right here in our "region"....Walker from NJ and Sanders from PA. PSU got Sanders, and - as the season went on it appeared to be pretty clear that he was THE most highly regarded TB in the region
Couldn't have done any better

WR - PSU was in a bit of an odd spot here.....on one hand, you would like to bring in at least 1-2 WR every year. On the other hand, PSU has a very young, talented pool of WRs currently on the roster....and more pressing needs elsewhere - and one could make the argument that ZERO WR might have been the right number for this class. The staff seemed to pretty much adopt the position that they couldn't afford many WR this year (which I think was the right call) and really only seemed to pay significant attention to the kid from Florida. He was always a long-shot.
When there were a couple scholarships available late, they grabbed the Temple commit - Darien. (FWIW, Matthews was never much of a WR prospect, and I think Darien is a MUCH better option).
Certainly didn't get any marquise guys here, but it was probably the LOWEST priority position for this class.....and Darien does have some interesting skills
Could be evaluated as an "incomplete"...or as "not applicable"....but adding Darien is a benefit.

TE - PSU needed one....and targeted 2 guys in the region, who both are quality prospects - Angeline from PA, and Dalton from MA (also may have taken a close look at a couple of the Ohio guys, but those were never realistic shots). They didn't have enough scholarships for more than one, and PSU landed Dalton.
Couldn't have done any better

OL - I would have liked to have seen 5 guys on the OL.....but there just were probably too many other needs to allow for that. The top 4 guys the staff targeted in the region, based on how PSU approached recruiting, appeared to be Menet, McGovern, Fries, and Gellerstadt. They received "verbals" from all four of them by the time summer rolled around....and held on to all of them despite a lot of attempted poaching. There were other quality prospects in the region - but PSU had no more room, and you can't lament "losing" guys that you didn't have room for anyway.
Couldn't have done any better

Overall, offensively, this class was OUSTANDING in filling PSU's needs with quality prospects. The defensive side was a little bumpier.


DT - Huge position of need for this class....not so much for bringing in High School kids (there are some nice young kids on the roster who are "developing" at DT) - but they were faced with the much tougher task of needing some guys who could provide immediate help. That is REALLY tough to do at DT or along the OL....you need to sign one of the VERY FEW High School kids who might be capable of contributing as a freshman, or find one of the VERY FEW JuCos who might be available.
The reasonable possibilities wrt guys who might provide some immediate help were probably limited to two - Gary from NJ, and Chavis the JuCo. It was pretty clear early on that Gary just wasn't interested (unfortunate).....Chavis MIGHT be a real stretch academically - and I won't get into that - but, athletically, he is a real critical catch. Bringing in the 2nd JuCo (who has THREE years of eligibility left) was a bonus.
The issues with Colon, Dwumfor, and Diabote were unfortunate...but the biggest need was for the "immediate help" guys, and we do already have some real good youngsters who are likely a year or two away. FWIW, I like Shelton from Ohio more than either Colon or Dwumfor....so I really don't lament not signing those two. I do think Diabote was a real nice prospect who would have been nice to add to the roster..
Not nearly the "disaster" that some want to view it as, and if Chavis and Thrift can buy some time for the young guys already on the roster, it will be a big plus.
Overall, solid results at a position were the needs were going to be nearly impossible to meet

DE - Needed a Rush End and a Strong Side End. Got the top Rush End in the region (one of the best in the country) in Simmons, and a real nice Strong Side End in Joseph.
Couldn't have done any better.

Box LB - Needed one....didn't get one. Was a thin year for LB prospects in the region, and Ferns was probably the only legit high-end option....but tough to overcome that family connection. Maybe the Grad Transfer from Illinois will eventually join on - which would solve the immediate issue....but this has to be a high priority item for next year.
Unmet need - has to be a 2017 priority

Space LB - Needed two. Thin year in the region for LB, not a lot of high-end options, but PSU did get two solid prospects - Brown from MD and Toney from IMHOTEP. I don't expect either of these guys to be ready as Freshman (which was also the case with the 2015 kids - but they HAD TO be rushed in there due to lack of depth and injuries). Hopefully, the injury bug will not be so hard on the LBers this year, and both these kids can redshirt.
Overall, OK....and - considering the scarcity of LB prospects in the region, pretty good.

CB - Needed two. Landed a high quality prospect in McPherson, and - for a time - appeared to have a second in Hill. Alas, Hill ended up staying home. A second would have been really nice, but the current depth chart is both young and talented (as opposed to the situation at LB), so there is time to "make up" in the next class.
Like LB, DB has to be a high priority for 2017.

Combo DB - Needed one, and initially targeted Hamlin as that guy.....when that didn't work out, signed Johnson. I think Johnson is a quality recruit, and I was never a huge fan of Hamlin and I do not think he is a HUGE loss (I think he is a good prospect, but he is not on the same level as a Tyler Boyd, or even a Whitehead, IMO. Those two guys could be special)
Would have been nice to get the PA kid, but Johnson will do fine

S - Needed one....got left at the altar by Pryts.
Again, LB and DB are the high priorities for 2017

P and PK - Huge priorities, and clearly worthy of offering scholarships to quality freshmen recruits. Gilikin and Barbir are outstanding additions. Like many, I am AT LEAST as pleased to have Barbir sign rather than the Diva from Michigan.
Couldn't have done any better


Overall, given the number of scholarships available, and the needs of the roster.....one damn fine class.

One of the most interesting - and promising - things that was revealed with this class is just how INCREDIBLY prepared this coaching staff was. When "shit happened" they seemed to be one step ahead of the game with a counter-move.

Bringing in the two more mature DTs was a critical strategic step.

The offensive side of the ball....what could anyone find to complain about? Aside from the thought that "since we did bring in a WR, would have been nice if he was a STUD"...I can't think of any reasonable complaints - and, FWIW, I think the Darien kid has some nice skills and will eventually contribute (and, of course, WR was the lowest priority spot in the entire 2016 class)
On the defensive side...there was no way to repair the DT spot in just one year (kinda' like the OL situation we faced the last couple of years), but I think the staff did a nice job of making the best of things and trying to find some immediate patches. LB and DB both could have benefitted from some additional numbers - but you only have what you have to work with, if we didn't have such a dire need for a PK and a P, they could have used more scholarships there......but, the key is to jump on those spots aggressively for 2017.

Interesting...only part I really disagree on is DT. That is a mess for us. I am not sold on JUCO's, in general, and nobody on this board has any idea what the quality of these young men are. As Tom pointed out below, perhaps this is as good as we could do. And, as you point out, perhaps having a JUCO is better in that we won't have to start a true Frosh at DT next year. Be that as it may, DT is a HUGE area of need next year. At the same time, LB is a mess. One injury or failure, will be catastrophic. When you combine DT with LB, one is hard pressed to imagine anyone even attempting a pass against us next year as we will not be able to stop the run all season. Its clear we didn't get a LOT of kids that we wanted, and that is a big factor.

Finally, things would be totally different if we had a 30ish class coming into the last two months and moved up to ~20. What happened is we were near the top 5 and moved down to ~20. Its like winning by 14 going into half time and being tied going into the fourth qtr versus loosing by 14 at the half and going into the forth qtr being tied. There is so much about momentum and perception that sets up 2016/17.

We need to win games next year. We need to execute in a crisp manner. We need to get rid of the negative elements surrounding the program next year. So much is on CJF, the OC and the DC. This season is a critical year in determining if the sanctions hurt us for five years versus ten years +.

 

[mdking001]

Great take. Love outside the box thinking. As long as the PSU coaching staff is happy with the class I am. Now lets coach them up!

 

[DavidM]

Stinker: Absolutely excellent post and content. I'm not sure who could have said it any better!

 

[MonkeyBoy32]

This is maybe the best post I have read on the site all week. Fantastic job laying everything out.

First of all, I couldn't care less where the class is "ranked"
1 - Any attempt to rank one class against another is so incredibly layered in subjectivity, that it is truly worthless
2 - If one does give weight to "rankings"....what are you going to do about it? The only thing a program or coaching staff can control is who THEY bring in to THEIR program.

With that in mind, the only sensible way - IMO - to "critique" a recruiting class is from the point of view of:

A - Program has X number of scholarships available
B - Program has Y needs....so many DBs, so many WRs etc
C - Did the program bring in quality prospects at those positions. You are never going to bat 1.000....but did you fill 90% of those needs with quality prospects - or 50%? When you were not able to fill with quality prospects, why not?

So:

PSU had +/- 20 scholarships available
Based on the existing roster, a reasonable breakdown of "needs" (IMO, and there can always be some debate):

1 QB
1TB
1 WR
1 TE
4 OL
3 DT (hopefully, with at least one more mature guy - JC or Grad Transfer)
2 DE
1 Box LB
2 Space LB
2 CB
1 S
1 Combo DB

1 PK and 1 P (if possible, 1 guy to fill both roles....to save on scholarships)

That comes out to 22 Scholarships.......and PSU ended up with 20 signees, so you know some of those "needs" were going to go unmet.
Looking on a need-by-need basis:

QB - PSU had 3 quality QB prospects in the region....Gaurantano from NJ, Haskins from MD, and Zembiec from NY. I think it is clear that the staff liked Zembiec the most.....and they signed him
Couldn't have done any better

TB - PSU was fortunate to have two of the top RB in the country right here in our "region"....Walker from NJ and Sanders from PA. PSU got Sanders, and - as the season went on it appeared to be pretty clear that he was THE most highly regarded TB in the region
Couldn't have done any better

WR - PSU was in a bit of an odd spot here.....on one hand, you would like to bring in at least 1-2 WR every year. On the other hand, PSU has a very young, talented pool of WRs currently on the roster....and more pressing needs elsewhere - and one could make the argument that ZERO WR might have been the right number for this class. The staff seemed to pretty much adopt the position that they couldn't afford many WR this year (which I think was the right call) and really only seemed to pay significant attention to the kid from Florida. He was always a long-shot.
When there were a couple scholarships available late, they grabbed the Temple commit - Darien. (FWIW, Matthews was never much of a WR prospect, and I think Darien is a MUCH better option).
Certainly didn't get any marquise guys here, but it was probably the LOWEST priority position for this class.....and Darien does have some interesting skills
Could be evaluated as an "incomplete"...or as "not applicable"....but adding Darien is a benefit.

TE - PSU needed one....and targeted 2 guys in the region, who both are quality prospects - Angeline from PA, and Dalton from MA (also may have taken a close look at a couple of the Ohio guys, but those were never realistic shots). They didn't have enough scholarships for more than one, and PSU landed Dalton.
Couldn't have done any better

OL - I would have liked to have seen 5 guys on the OL.....but there just were probably too many other needs to allow for that. The top 4 guys the staff targeted in the region, based on how PSU approached recruiting, appeared to be Menet, McGovern, Fries, and Gellerstadt. They received "verbals" from all four of them by the time summer rolled around....and held on to all of them despite a lot of attempted poaching. There were other quality prospects in the region - but PSU had no more room, and you can't lament "losing" guys that you didn't have room for anyway.
Couldn't have done any better

Overall, offensively, this class was OUSTANDING in filling PSU's needs with quality prospects. The defensive side was a little bumpier.


DT - Huge position of need for this class....not so much for bringing in High School kids (there are some nice young kids on the roster who are "developing" at DT) - but they were faced with the much tougher task of needing some guys who could provide immediate help. That is REALLY tough to do at DT or along the OL....you need to sign one of the VERY FEW High School kids who might be capable of contributing as a freshman, or find one of the VERY FEW JuCos who might be available.
The reasonable possibilities wrt guys who might provide some immediate help were probably limited to two - Gary from NJ, and Chavis the JuCo. It was pretty clear early on that Gary just wasn't interested (unfortunate).....Chavis MIGHT be a real stretch academically - and I won't get into that - but, athletically, he is a real critical catch. Bringing in the 2nd JuCo (who has THREE years of eligibility left) was a bonus.
The issues with Colon, Dwumfor, and Diabote were unfortunate...but the biggest need was for the "immediate help" guys, and we do already have some real good youngsters who are likely a year or two away. FWIW, I like Shelton from Ohio more than either Colon or Dwumfor....so I really don't lament not signing those two. I do think Diabote was a real nice prospect who would have been nice to add to the roster..
Not nearly the "disaster" that some want to view it as, and if Chavis and Thrift can buy some time for the young guys already on the roster, it will be a big plus.
Overall, solid results at a position were the needs were going to be nearly impossible to meet

DE - Needed a Rush End and a Strong Side End. Got the top Rush End in the region (one of the best in the country) in Simmons, and a real nice Strong Side End in Joseph.
Couldn't have done any better.

Box LB - Needed one....didn't get one. Was a thin year for LB prospects in the region, and Ferns was probably the only legit high-end option....but tough to overcome that family connection. Maybe the Grad Transfer from Illinois will eventually join on - which would solve the immediate issue....but this has to be a high priority item for next year.
Unmet need - has to be a 2017 priority

Space LB - Needed two. Thin year in the region for LB, not a lot of high-end options, but PSU did get two solid prospects - Brown from MD and Toney from IMHOTEP. I don't expect either of these guys to be ready as Freshman (which was also the case with the 2015 kids - but they HAD TO be rushed in there due to lack of depth and injuries). Hopefully, the injury bug will not be so hard on the LBers this year, and both these kids can redshirt.
Overall, OK....and - considering the scarcity of LB prospects in the region, pretty good.

CB - Needed two. Landed a high quality prospect in McPherson, and - for a time - appeared to have a second in Hill. Alas, Hill ended up staying home. A second would have been really nice, but the current depth chart is both young and talented (as opposed to the situation at LB), so there is time to "make up" in the next class.
Like LB, DB has to be a high priority for 2017.

Combo DB - Needed one, and initially targeted Hamlin as that guy.....when that didn't work out, signed Johnson. I think Johnson is a quality recruit, and I was never a huge fan of Hamlin and I do not think he is a HUGE loss (I think he is a good prospect, but he is not on the same level as a Tyler Boyd, or even a Whitehead, IMO. Those two guys could be special)
Would have been nice to get the PA kid, but Johnson will do fine

S - Needed one....got left at the altar by Pryts.
Again, LB and DB are the high priorities for 2017

P and PK - Huge priorities, and clearly worthy of offering scholarships to quality freshmen recruits. Gilikin and Barbir are outstanding additions. Like many, I am AT LEAST as pleased to have Barbir sign rather than the Diva from Michigan.
Couldn't have done any better


Overall, given the number of scholarships available, and the needs of the roster.....one damn fine class.

One of the most interesting - and promising - things that was revealed with this class is just how INCREDIBLY prepared this coaching staff was. When "shit happened" they seemed to be one step ahead of the game with a counter-move.

Bringing in the two more mature DTs was a critical strategic step.

The offensive side of the ball....what could anyone find to complain about? Aside from the thought that "since we did bring in a WR, would have been nice if he was a STUD"...I can't think of any reasonable complaints - and, FWIW, I think the Darien kid has some nice skills and will eventually contribute (and, of course, WR was the lowest priority spot in the entire 2016 class)
On the defensive side...there was no way to repair the DT spot in just one year (kinda' like the OL situation we faced the last couple of years), but I think the staff did a nice job of making the best of things and trying to find some immediate patches. LB and DB both could have benefitted from some additional numbers - but you only have what you have to work with, if we didn't have such a dire need for a PK and a P, they could have used more scholarships there......but, the key is to jump on those spots aggressively for 2017.

 

[NewYC]

Thanks for the review. I really think that if PSU would've landed Ferns, Dioubate, and either Hamlin or Hill everything would've played out ideally. LB and DT are areas I hope they really improve at next year. It's a bit mystifying that they are having trouble at those positions when, historically, they've been such a big part of the PSU tradition. It would have been great to get Dioubate and get a highly rated DT, there is no doubt. However, I'm not sure Chavis doesn't have the potential to help out moreso in the short term than any freshman they could've brought in.

 

[Nit777]

First of all, I couldn't care less where the class is "ranked"
1 - Any attempt to rank one class against another is so incredibly layered in subjectivity, that it is truly worthless
2 - If one does give weight to "rankings"....what are you going to do about it? The only thing a program or coaching staff can control is who THEY bring in to THEIR program.

With that in mind, the only sensible way - IMO - to "critique" a recruiting class is from the point of view of:

A - Program has X number of scholarships available
B - Program has Y needs....so many DBs, so many WRs etc
C - Did the program bring in quality prospects at those positions. You are never going to bat 1.000....but did you fill 90% of those needs with quality prospects - or 50%? When you were not able to fill with quality prospects, why not?

So:

PSU had +/- 20 scholarships available
Based on the existing roster, a reasonable breakdown of "needs" (IMO, and there can always be some debate):

1 QB
1TB
1 WR
1 TE
4 OL
3 DT (hopefully, with at least one more mature guy - JC or Grad Transfer)
2 DE
1 Box LB
2 Space LB
2 CB
1 S
1 Combo DB

1 PK and 1 P (if possible, 1 guy to fill both roles....to save on scholarships)

That comes out to 22 Scholarships.......and PSU ended up with 20 signees, so you know some of those "needs" were going to go unmet.
Looking on a need-by-need basis:

QB - PSU had 3 quality QB prospects in the region....Gaurantano from NJ, Haskins from MD, and Zembiec from NY. I think it is clear that the staff liked Zembiec the most.....and they signed him
Couldn't have done any better

TB - PSU was fortunate to have two of the top RB in the country right here in our "region"....Walker from NJ and Sanders from PA. PSU got Sanders, and - as the season went on it appeared to be pretty clear that he was THE most highly regarded TB in the region
Couldn't have done any better

WR - PSU was in a bit of an odd spot here.....on one hand, you would like to bring in at least 1-2 WR every year. On the other hand, PSU has a very young, talented pool of WRs currently on the roster....and more pressing needs elsewhere - and one could make the argument that ZERO WR might have been the right number for this class. The staff seemed to pretty much adopt the position that they couldn't afford many WR this year (which I think was the right call) and really only seemed to pay significant attention to the kid from Florida. He was always a long-shot.
When there were a couple scholarships available late, they grabbed the Temple commit - Darien. (FWIW, Matthews was never much of a WR prospect, and I think Darien is a MUCH better option).
Certainly didn't get any marquise guys here, but it was probably the LOWEST priority position for this class.....and Darien does have some interesting skills
Could be evaluated as an "incomplete"...or as "not applicable"....but adding Darien is a benefit.

TE - PSU needed one....and targeted 2 guys in the region, who both are quality prospects - Angeline from PA, and Dalton from MA (also may have taken a close look at a couple of the Ohio guys, but those were never realistic shots). They didn't have enough scholarships for more than one, and PSU landed Dalton.
Couldn't have done any better

OL - I would have liked to have seen 5 guys on the OL.....but there just were probably too many other needs to allow for that. The top 4 guys the staff targeted in the region, based on how PSU approached recruiting, appeared to be Menet, McGovern, Fries, and Gellerstadt. They received "verbals" from all four of them by the time summer rolled around....and held on to all of them despite a lot of attempted poaching. There were other quality prospects in the region - but PSU had no more room, and you can't lament "losing" guys that you didn't have room for anyway.
Couldn't have done any better

Overall, offensively, this class was OUSTANDING in filling PSU's needs with quality prospects. The defensive side was a little bumpier.


DT - Huge position of need for this class....not so much for bringing in High School kids (there are some nice young kids on the roster who are "developing" at DT) - but they were faced with the much tougher task of needing some guys who could provide immediate help. That is REALLY tough to do at DT or along the OL....you need to sign one of the VERY FEW High School kids who might be capable of contributing as a freshman, or find one of the VERY FEW JuCos who might be available.
The reasonable possibilities wrt guys who might provide some immediate help were probably limited to two - Gary from NJ, and Chavis the JuCo. It was pretty clear early on that Gary just wasn't interested (unfortunate).....Chavis MIGHT be a real stretch academically - and I won't get into that - but, athletically, he is a real critical catch. Bringing in the 2nd JuCo (who has THREE years of eligibility left) was a bonus.
The issues with Colon, Dwumfor, and Diabote were unfortunate...but the biggest need was for the "immediate help" guys, and we do already have some real good youngsters who are likely a year or two away. FWIW, I like Shelton from Ohio more than either Colon or Dwumfor....so I really don't lament not signing those two. I do think Diabote was a real nice prospect who would have been nice to add to the roster..
Not nearly the "disaster" that some want to view it as, and if Chavis and Thrift can buy some time for the young guys already on the roster, it will be a big plus.
Overall, solid results at a position were the needs were going to be nearly impossible to meet

DE - Needed a Rush End and a Strong Side End. Got the top Rush End in the region (one of the best in the country) in Simmons, and a real nice Strong Side End in Joseph.
Couldn't have done any better.

Box LB - Needed one....didn't get one. Was a thin year for LB prospects in the region, and Ferns was probably the only legit high-end option....but tough to overcome that family connection. Maybe the Grad Transfer from Illinois will eventually join on - which would solve the immediate issue....but this has to be a high priority item for next year.
Unmet need - has to be a 2017 priority

Space LB - Needed two. Thin year in the region for LB, not a lot of high-end options, but PSU did get two solid prospects - Brown from MD and Toney from IMHOTEP. I don't expect either of these guys to be ready as Freshman (which was also the case with the 2015 kids - but they HAD TO be rushed in there due to lack of depth and injuries). Hopefully, the injury bug will not be so hard on the LBers this year, and both these kids can redshirt.
Overall, OK....and - considering the scarcity of LB prospects in the region, pretty good.

CB - Needed two. Landed a high quality prospect in McPherson, and - for a time - appeared to have a second in Hill. Alas, Hill ended up staying home. A second would have been really nice, but the current depth chart is both young and talented (as opposed to the situation at LB), so there is time to "make up" in the next class.
Like LB, DB has to be a high priority for 2017.

Combo DB - Needed one, and initially targeted Hamlin as that guy.....when that didn't work out, signed Johnson. I think Johnson is a quality recruit, and I was never a huge fan of Hamlin and I do not think he is a HUGE loss (I think he is a good prospect, but he is not on the same level as a Tyler Boyd, or even a Whitehead, IMO. Those two guys could be special)
Would have been nice to get the PA kid, but Johnson will do fine

S - Needed one....got left at the altar by Pryts.
Again, LB and DB are the high priorities for 2017

P and PK - Huge priorities, and clearly worthy of offering scholarships to quality freshmen recruits. Gilikin and Barbir are outstanding additions. Like many, I am AT LEAST as pleased to have Barbir sign rather than the Diva from Michigan.
Couldn't have done any better


Overall, given the number of scholarships available, and the needs of the roster.....one damn fine class.

One of the most interesting - and promising - things that was revealed with this class is just how INCREDIBLY prepared this coaching staff was. When "shit happened" they seemed to be one step ahead of the game with a counter-move.

Bringing in the two more mature DTs was a critical strategic step.

The offensive side of the ball....what could anyone find to complain about? Aside from the thought that "since we did bring in a WR, would have been nice if he was a STUD"...I can't think of any reasonable complaints - and, FWIW, I think the Darien kid has some nice skills and will eventually contribute (and, of course, WR was the lowest priority spot in the entire 2016 class)
On the defensive side...there was no way to repair the DT spot in just one year (kinda' like the OL situation we faced the last couple of years), but I think the staff did a nice job of making the best of things and trying to find some immediate patches. LB and DB both could have benefitted from some additional numbers - but you only have what you have to work with, if we didn't have such a dire need for a PK and a P, they could have used more scholarships there......but, the key is to jump on those spots aggressively for 2017.

Barry,

Nice, detailed analysis.

Bottom line is that we all agree that Franklin needs to WIN NEXT YEAR, I would define that as winning 8 games and beating Pitt, Maryland, Temple and Rutgers. None of the 2016 recruits, other than perhaps Hamlin, Ferns and Diobute would have contributed to winning games next year.

Win next year and the slide at the end of the 2016 recruiting cycle will be a distant memory.

Also, Gilliken has the potential to have 5 star impact if he is as good as we think he is going to be.

 

[LundyPSU]

Interesting...only part I really disagree on is DT. That is a mess for us. I am not sold on JUCO's, in general, and nobody on this board has any idea what the quality of these young men are. As Tom pointed out below, perhaps this is as good as we could do. And, as you point out, perhaps having a JUCO is better in that we won't have to start a true Frosh at DT next year. Be that as it may, DT is a HUGE area of need next year. At the same time, LB is a mess. One injury or failure, will be catastrophic. When you combine DT with LB, one is hard pressed to imagine anyone even attempting a pass against us next year as we will not be able to stop the run all season. Its clear we didn't get a LOT of kids that we wanted, and that is a big factor.

Finally, things would be totally different if we had a 30ish class coming into the last two months and moved up to ~20. What happened is we were near the top 5 and moved down to ~20. Its like winning by 14 going into half time and being tied going into the fourth qtr versus loosing by 14 at the half and going into the forth qtr being tied. There is so much about momentum and perception that sets up 2016/17.

We need to win games next year. We need to execute in a crisp manner. We need to get rid of the negative elements surrounding the program next year. So much is on CJF, the OC and the DC. This season is a critical year in determining if the sanctions hurt us for five years versus ten years +.

Obli- I agree with most of what you write here. However, I think we need to dial back the pressure on next year. Winning solves a lot, but need to be realistic on the experienced talent, especially at key positions. I have plenty of questions about CJF, but next season is not make or break for me. But I understand many will be ready to run him out of town with continued struggles on the field.

 

[Obliviax]

Obli- I agree with most of what you write here. However, I think we need to dial back the pressure on next year. Winning solves a lot, but need to be realistic on the experienced talent, especially at key positions. I have plenty of questions about CJF, but next season is not make or break for me. But I understand many will be ready to run him out of town with continued struggles on the field.

Agree..I am not looking at W's and Ls, for the most part (except Temple and Pitt) but am looking at how we play the game. We are rebuilding next year, for the most part, with a new QB. So my expectations are in line. However, there's no excuse for failure to execute. I look for a crisp offense and a tough, active defense. If we loose to a better team, so be it.

 

[danvillenit]

Barry,

Nice, detailed analysis.

Bottom line is that we all agree that Franklin needs to WIN NEXT YEAR, I would define that as winning 8 games and beating Pitt, Maryland, Temple and Rutgers. None of the 2016 recruits, other than perhaps Hamlin, Ferns and Diobute would have contributed to winning games next year.

Win next year and the slide at the end of the 2016 recruiting cycle will be a distant memory.

Also, Gilliken has the potential to have 5 star impact if he is as good as we think he is going to be.

Agree. That will be required for a top 20 class. A win over OSU or Mich will be necessary to achieve a top 10 class.

 

[LTFox14]

Excellent post and pretty much what I think of this class. Only disappointing aspect for me the LB's. Offense- love. Very happy we got Chavis. Would rather have him than even DIaboute just because he should be able to go in the fall. The overall class very excited about except the lack of LB's. But Fern was not realistic due to the family connections. That was always a long shot. As for Hill even at the time he committed we knew he was always a long shot. So no loss there. Pryts- wish him luck at Stanford. Not even giving him a second thought. This class filled a lot of holes. So good job Coach Franklin and the staff.

 

[The Spin Meister]

Interesting...only part I really disagree on is DT. That is a mess for us. I am not sold on JUCO's, in general, and nobody on this board has any idea what the quality of these young men are. As Tom pointed out below, perhaps this is as good as we could do. And, as you point out, perhaps having a JUCO is better in that we won't have to start a true Frosh at DT next year. Be that as it may, DT is a HUGE area of need next year. At the same time, LB is a mess. One injury or failure, will be catastrophic. When you combine DT with LB, one is hard pressed to imagine anyone even attempting a pass against us next year as we will not be able to stop the run all season. Its clear we didn't get a LOT of kids that we wanted, and that is a big factor.

Finally, things would be totally different if we had a 30ish class coming into the last two months and moved up to ~20. What happened is we were near the top 5 and moved down to ~20. Its like winning by 14 going into half time and being tied going into the fourth qtr versus loosing by 14 at the half and going into the forth qtr being tied. There is so much about momentum and perception that sets up 2016/17.

We need to win games next year. We need to execute in a crisp manner. We need to get rid of the negative elements surrounding the program next year. So much is on CJF, the OC and the DC. This season is a critical year in determining if the sanctions hurt us for five years versus ten years +.

A couple of months back, when everyone was all giddy about our 5 ranking, someone posted some sage advice. He stated that our ranking would drop as LOI day came about. A lot of the five stars like to wait until late so they can get more attention and get on ESPN for the hat trickery thingy. As many of them commit to programs like OSU, Mich, Ala, LSU and more, our ranking will drop because they will move up.

Sure we lost a few commits and didn't get others we were hoping for but that happens just about every class. And when a team changes several important coaches as we did, that also has an impact. If our O looks as good as promised with the new scheme that will attract a lot more possible recruits. Just with better punting/kicking we pick up two more wins.

If someone told you one the day CJF was hired we would have a top 20 class, you would have said that would be great. And the ranking is less important than filling needs with quality players as the OP stated.

 

[Mudge1026]

First of all, I couldn't care less where the class is "ranked"
1 - Any attempt to rank one class against another is so incredibly layered in subjectivity, that it is truly worthless
2 - If one does give weight to "rankings"....what are you going to do about it? The only thing a program or coaching staff can control is who THEY bring in to THEIR program.

With that in mind, the only sensible way - IMO - to "critique" a recruiting class is from the point of view of:

A - Program has X number of scholarships available
B - Program has Y needs....so many DBs, so many WRs etc
C - Did the program bring in quality prospects at those positions. You are never going to bat 1.000....but did you fill 90% of those needs with quality prospects - or 50%? When you were not able to fill with quality prospects, why not?

So:

PSU had +/- 20 scholarships available
Based on the existing roster, a reasonable breakdown of "needs" (IMO, and there can always be some debate):

1 QB
1TB
1 WR
1 TE
4 OL
3 DT (hopefully, with at least one more mature guy - JC or Grad Transfer)
2 DE
1 Box LB
2 Space LB
2 CB
1 S
1 Combo DB

1 PK and 1 P (if possible, 1 guy to fill both roles....to save on scholarships)

That comes out to 22 Scholarships.......and PSU ended up with 20 signees, so you know some of those "needs" were going to go unmet.
Looking on a need-by-need basis:

QB - PSU had 3 quality QB prospects in the region....Gaurantano from NJ, Haskins from MD, and Zembiec from NY. I think it is clear that the staff liked Zembiec the most.....and they signed him
Couldn't have done any better

TB - PSU was fortunate to have two of the top RB in the country right here in our "region"....Walker from NJ and Sanders from PA. PSU got Sanders, and - as the season went on it appeared to be pretty clear that he was THE most highly regarded TB in the region
Couldn't have done any better

WR - PSU was in a bit of an odd spot here.....on one hand, you would like to bring in at least 1-2 WR every year. On the other hand, PSU has a very young, talented pool of WRs currently on the roster....and more pressing needs elsewhere - and one could make the argument that ZERO WR might have been the right number for this class. The staff seemed to pretty much adopt the position that they couldn't afford many WR this year (which I think was the right call) and really only seemed to pay significant attention to the kid from Florida. He was always a long-shot.
When there were a couple scholarships available late, they grabbed the Temple commit - Darien. (FWIW, Matthews was never much of a WR prospect, and I think Darien is a MUCH better option).
Certainly didn't get any marquise guys here, but it was probably the LOWEST priority position for this class.....and Darien does have some interesting skills
Could be evaluated as an "incomplete"...or as "not applicable"....but adding Darien is a benefit.

TE - PSU needed one....and targeted 2 guys in the region, who both are quality prospects - Angeline from PA, and Dalton from MA (also may have taken a close look at a couple of the Ohio guys, but those were never realistic shots). They didn't have enough scholarships for more than one, and PSU landed Dalton.
Couldn't have done any better

OL - I would have liked to have seen 5 guys on the OL.....but there just were probably too many other needs to allow for that. The top 4 guys the staff targeted in the region, based on how PSU approached recruiting, appeared to be Menet, McGovern, Fries, and Gellerstadt. They received "verbals" from all four of them by the time summer rolled around....and held on to all of them despite a lot of attempted poaching. There were other quality prospects in the region - but PSU had no more room, and you can't lament "losing" guys that you didn't have room for anyway.
Couldn't have done any better

Overall, offensively, this class was OUSTANDING in filling PSU's needs with quality prospects. The defensive side was a little bumpier.


DT - Huge position of need for this class....not so much for bringing in High School kids (there are some nice young kids on the roster who are "developing" at DT) - but they were faced with the much tougher task of needing some guys who could provide immediate help. That is REALLY tough to do at DT or along the OL....you need to sign one of the VERY FEW High School kids who might be capable of contributing as a freshman, or find one of the VERY FEW JuCos who might be available.
The reasonable possibilities wrt guys who might provide some immediate help were probably limited to two - Gary from NJ, and Chavis the JuCo. It was pretty clear early on that Gary just wasn't interested (unfortunate).....Chavis MIGHT be a real stretch academically - and I won't get into that - but, athletically, he is a real critical catch. Bringing in the 2nd JuCo (who has THREE years of eligibility left) was a bonus.
The issues with Colon, Dwumfor, and Diabote were unfortunate...but the biggest need was for the "immediate help" guys, and we do already have some real good youngsters who are likely a year or two away. FWIW, I like Shelton from Ohio more than either Colon or Dwumfor....so I really don't lament not signing those two. I do think Diabote was a real nice prospect who would have been nice to add to the roster..
Not nearly the "disaster" that some want to view it as, and if Chavis and Thrift can buy some time for the young guys already on the roster, it will be a big plus.
Overall, solid results at a position were the needs were going to be nearly impossible to meet

DE - Needed a Rush End and a Strong Side End. Got the top Rush End in the region (one of the best in the country) in Simmons, and a real nice Strong Side End in Joseph.
Couldn't have done any better.

Box LB - Needed one....didn't get one. Was a thin year for LB prospects in the region, and Ferns was probably the only legit high-end option....but tough to overcome that family connection. Maybe the Grad Transfer from Illinois will eventually join on - which would solve the immediate issue....but this has to be a high priority item for next year.
Unmet need - has to be a 2017 priority

Space LB - Needed two. Thin year in the region for LB, not a lot of high-end options, but PSU did get two solid prospects - Brown from MD and Toney from IMHOTEP. I don't expect either of these guys to be ready as Freshman (which was also the case with the 2015 kids - but they HAD TO be rushed in there due to lack of depth and injuries). Hopefully, the injury bug will not be so hard on the LBers this year, and both these kids can redshirt.
Overall, OK....and - considering the scarcity of LB prospects in the region, pretty good.

CB - Needed two. Landed a high quality prospect in McPherson, and - for a time - appeared to have a second in Hill. Alas, Hill ended up staying home. A second would have been really nice, but the current depth chart is both young and talented (as opposed to the situation at LB), so there is time to "make up" in the next class.
Like LB, DB has to be a high priority for 2017.

Combo DB - Needed one, and initially targeted Hamlin as that guy.....when that didn't work out, signed Johnson. I think Johnson is a quality recruit, and I was never a huge fan of Hamlin and I do not think he is a HUGE loss (I think he is a good prospect, but he is not on the same level as a Tyler Boyd, or even a Whitehead, IMO. Those two guys could be special)
Would have been nice to get the PA kid, but Johnson will do fine

S - Needed one....got left at the altar by Pryts.
Again, LB and DB are the high priorities for 2017

P and PK - Huge priorities, and clearly worthy of offering scholarships to quality freshmen recruits. Gilikin and Barbir are outstanding additions. Like many, I am AT LEAST as pleased to have Barbir sign rather than the Diva from Michigan.
Couldn't have done any better


Overall, given the number of scholarships available, and the needs of the roster.....one damn fine class.

One of the most interesting - and promising - things that was revealed with this class is just how INCREDIBLY prepared this coaching staff was. When "shit happened" they seemed to be one step ahead of the game with a counter-move.

Bringing in the two more mature DTs was a critical strategic step.

The offensive side of the ball....what could anyone find to complain about? Aside from the thought that "since we did bring in a WR, would have been nice if he was a STUD"...I can't think of any reasonable complaints - and, FWIW, I think the Darien kid has some nice skills and will eventually contribute (and, of course, WR was the lowest priority spot in the entire 2016 class)
On the defensive side...there was no way to repair the DT spot in just one year (kinda' like the OL situation we faced the last couple of years), but I think the staff did a nice job of making the best of things and trying to find some immediate patches. LB and DB both could have benefitted from some additional numbers - but you only have what you have to work with, if we didn't have such a dire need for a PK and a P, they could have used more scholarships there......but, the key is to jump on those spots aggressively for 2017.

This is the best analysis of 2016 recruiting that I've read either here or on premium, nice job!

 

[StinkStankStunk]

Barry,

Nice, detailed analysis.

Bottom line is that we all agree that Franklin needs to WIN NEXT YEAR, I would define that as winning 8 games and beating Pitt, Maryland, Temple and Rutgers. None of the 2016 recruits, other than perhaps Hamlin, Ferns and Diobute would have contributed to winning games next year.

Win next year and the slide at the end of the 2016 recruiting cycle will be a distant memory.

Also, Gilliken has the potential to have 5 star impact if he is as good as we think he is going to be.

Appreciate the kind words.

I would only disagree wrt the expectations for next year. I assume a lot of folks will expect 8, 9 wins next year....hell, I go into EVERY week figuring they "could" - somehow, someway - win. So I guess one could say my expectations are 12-0

That said. from my head (instead of my heart) I would expect something along the lines of a 6-6 record for 2016.

IF Hackenberg and Johnson had stayed, I might have upped expectations to 7 or 8 wins....but , when you add HUGE gaping holes at NT, and at the most important position on the field, QB....going from All-Conference (maybe even All-American) level veterans - to unproven, young kids....it is a huge blow.

Add in either a "young" or "talent challenged" group of offensive linemen (it will have to be one or the other, no matter who the staff goes with), and an onion-skin thin linebacker situation.....the roster does not match up well with the schedule.

A lot will happen between now and September, and predictions at this point are full of possible booby-traps - - - after the BW game we will all have a lot better picture of where things may be come fall - - - but, right now:

I would have PSU as a HUGE underdog in Ann Arbor
I would have PSU as a SIGNIFICANT underdog at home to OSU and MSU
I would have PSU as a MODERATE underdog in Pittsburgh (as much as I hate to say it)


I think PSU will handle Indiana and Rutgers and Purdue on the road (though NO road B1G games are a gimmee with a completely unproven - at this point - QB....so slipping up in one of those wouldn't be a complete shock. Of course, by October we will have a much better picture of the PSU QB situation)

I think PSU will have the better of Minnesota and Maryland in Beaver Stadium.......and I am not sold on Iowa having anywhere near the type of record in 2016 that they had in 2015.
The Iowa game comes in November, and if PSU can figure out the QB situation by then, that could be a nice "name" win.

Kent State and Temple (which loses a LOT from their "Dream Team") should be solid home wins.


So....could I see 8 wins?

Yes.....IF the QB situation works out better than one could reasonably hope (gotta' be realistic, we will be sending out either a relatively unheralded FR or SO, with no experience, behind what even the most optimistic among us would expect would be an "OK" offensive line).....AND IF this very young squad avoids any FUBAR games (which is a lot to ask for over a 12 game season)

In other words, 8 wins comes into the picture in a reasonable "Best Case" scenario.

If they get to 6.....get to a post-season game....I will not be shocked (maybe a bit disappointed, but that would likely be determined by "HOW" they got to 6 wins)

7 wins, which would likely include at least a couple of B1G road wins, and a "nice" win over a Pitt or an Iowa...that would be nice.

8 wins....that would be OUTSTANDING...and would mean PSU defeats a couple of quality teams, doesn't have any slip ups against lesser teams, and does a nice job with pulling out some road victories. That would be a REAL NICE step up in preparation for 2017.


:

 

[GregInPitt]

A couple of months back, when everyone was all giddy about our 5 ranking, someone posted some sage advice. He stated that our ranking would drop as LOI day came about. A lot of the five stars like to wait until late so they can get more attention and get on ESPN for the hat trickery thingy. As many of them commit to programs like OSU, Mich, Ala, LSU and more, our ranking will drop because they will move up.

Sure we lost a few commits and didn't get others we were hoping for but that happens just about every class. And when a team changes several important coaches as we did, that also has an impact. If our O looks as good as promised with the new scheme that will attract a lot more possible recruits. Just with better punting/kicking we pick up two more wins.

If someone told you one the day CJF was hired we would have a top 20 class, you would have said that would be great. And the ranking is less important than filling needs with quality players as the OP stated.

I'm not really on board with what you said. Yes, waiting for the 5 star kids is risky, but to be a top program you have to land a few. And CJF did land a few.

CJF has a strategy of relationships and longer term commitments to kids that will feel comfortable and commit. I like it. But it's open to coming up short when he misjudges kids and that happened this year at DT, WR, DB. The OP let CJF off the hook somewhat in these areas. Although CJF tried to focus on a lower number of targets (he made considerably less offers than most programs) he was trying to get in with a lot of top talent that he didn't really get in with. For various reasons, but great H.S. players have lots of options. If you go to 247 and look at the offers he made to WR's there were many to top talents, but he struck out sometimes getting in the door and sometimes closing. And what ended up as the top kid that was interested in PSU, Nixon, he placed all his eggs there coming down the stretch when maybe he should have reached out and got involved with a few more WR's earlier. Same with DB/CB/S, where maybe he was a little too confident in getting Hamlin and didn't recognize that Pryts was shaky early enough to replace them in the class. Fortunately McPhereson looks like a great player at CB and we are still pretty loaded at DB in general.

No, if someone told me that CJF would in his 3rd year recruit a 20th ranked class I would not be impressed. The best game day atmosphere in the country, high academics, great facilities. Combined with his reputation as a recruiter I would have expected better. The class had a chance for top 10-15 if he could have closed on a few more of his original targets or had broadened his target base earlier. But I believe he will learn and better continuity to the staff will help going forward as well. A few more wins will also be big in trying to get to the top 10. But ratings aren't everything and I think he did a great job with the OL as well as with DT's after he lost 3 for various reasons that were out of his control.

 

[NittanyOpp]

just because you are starting a new qb does not mean it needs to be a rebuild. the only thing we should be rebuilding is our d line. to me, the backers are all back, dbs outside of Lucas who was hurt anyway are all back. the o line is all back, the wrs are all back, the rbs are all back, the tight ends are only misssing carter.

so to me at almost every position besides DL we are returning almost the entire depth chart. the qb coupled with the OC should result in better offensive numbers, i personally think Hack would have thrived under Moorhead.

so lets stop the built in excuses for next year already unless our d line is just horrific and our qb stinks up the joint.

many teams have new qbs and do very very well that first year. heck, look at hack his first year, cam newton, baker mayfield, mariota, the list goes on.

Expect more from our team, there is talent, youth, and depth finally. and i believe 2 better coaches in Limegrover and Moorhead from what we have seen last two years.

 

[GregInPitt]

Nice job with this, but I have a few comments:

1 QB
1TB
1 WR
1 TE
4 OL
3 DT (hopefully, with at least one more mature guy - JC or Grad Transfer)
2 DE
1 Box LB
2 Space LB
2 CB
1 S
1 Combo DB
1 PK and 1 P (if possible, 1 guy to fill both roles....to save on scholarships)

I agree pretty much, except that CJF had 4 DT commits at one point and I believe he wanted 4 from the start.

QB - We will never know if Zambiec was his first choice, but he's a nice prospect and I agree the need was met.

TB - Couldn't have done any better - Agree

WR - CJF wanted one quality WR and from those he went after I believe he also was looking for one that would improve the return game immediately. He put out a lot of offers but didn't seem to make much headway with many. We won't know if he went after them hard enough, if he was over confident in Nixon, or..... but he did not land a top WR and was fortunate to get one at all as he also struck out trying to flip the talented Minny commit coming down the stretch. This is not incomplete, but more of a "D" grade.

TE - Couldn't have done any better - Agree

OL - .A great group, but there were some high talents that he had a shot at but did not land. The kids from MD come to mind as opposed to Gellerstadt who looks like a nice prospect but is more of a long term development (like the 2014 OL recruits) than some that could come in early and play which is what we still need. I would not say "couldn't have done any better" but a great group that rates an "A".

Overall - Offense, Given the top talent at RB and OL and the needs filled I agree with "OUTSTANDING"


DT - Overall, solid results at a position were the needs were going to be nearly impossible to meet. Don't agree with your view of what CJF wanted. I believe he wanted 3-4 high school DT's including 2 that were talented enough to come in and play as freshmen in 2016. Diabate would have been one of them and possibly Colon was the other. Then he would have also brought in a JC player to play right away. When he lost Colon and them Dwumfour he had to scramble to find additional DT's, but when Dioubate I believe that triggered going after the 2nd JC player. I'd give him a solid B here. I don't believe he got the high end talent he was looking for in the numbers he was after, but he did get kids that have the potential to contribute right away as well as 2 solid prospects to develop.

DE - Couldn't have done any better. Agree - Simmons and Joseph are studs.

Box LB - Needed one....didn't get one. Unmet need - has to be a 2017 priority. You let him off the hook here somewhat. CJF can't put all his eggs in one basket and he didn't off and/or get involved with enough LB's from the get go to insure he would get 3 total LB's, a must before Reeder left and all the more critical afterwards.

Space LB - Needed two. Overall, OK....and - considering the scarcity of LB prospects in the region, pretty good. I believe there were plenty of LB prospects in the 6 hr radius that CJF says is his core area. There were 1 or 2 from NY, and others from NJ, MD, VA, DC.... that he could have gotten in with back a year or two. When Reeder left and Ferns was on the fence, that was the time to try and close on another combo LB, or even 2 more - many of our good LB's played outside and inside. Especially since Brown may grow into a DE and many think DE is Toney's best position.... I would give him the "OK" as well, barely..,but he really will need 2 LB's that can play some as freshmen in order to solidify the position depth for 2017.

CB - Like LB, DB has to be a high priority for 2017. Agree - A solid B rating. McPherson is a nice looking CB.

Combo DB - Would have been nice to get the PA kid, but Johnson will do fine. We struck out here, but not a great need from the roster makeup, so I gotta say "D" at best.

S - Needed one....got left at the altar by Pryts. Again, LB and DB are the high priorities for 2017. Can't do much when what looks like a solid commit bails at the last minute. Having redshirted 3 Safety's last year, no use reaching at last minute.

Overall Defense, "B-". Great DE's and scrambled to end up with a good group of DTs that can help now, but LB needs were not met and DB recruiting was also dissappointing.

P and PK - Couldn't have done any better - Agree

Did damage control down the stretch but could have been in with greater numbers at a couple positions that would have led us to believe that the roster turnover that opened up spots (i.e. the transfers) were not the big surprises that caused open positions to be filled with last minute offers....

The offensive side of the ball....Great everwhere but WR. Hope the kid proves me wrong. The only way to keep great OL's on the field is to bring in 3-5 good OL prospects EVERY year....
On the defensive side...Still need a couple of high end DT's and a number of LB's that are now big needs for 2017. DB talent on roster will likely make the lack of 2016 DB's unnoticed if CJF gets 3-4 good ones in 2017.

 

[sluggo72]

you can do all the break down you want, you can fret about the QB all you want, you can worry about the 3 tech DT all you want, the bottom line is real simple, if our OL plays in 2016 like it did in 2015, we are screwed. It doesn't make them bad kids, and its not a negative, as they know it too. If our OL plays like a B1G OL, then we have a chance, and the rest will take care of itself.

 

[GregInPitt]

just because you are starting a new qb does not mean it needs to be a rebuild. the only thing we should be rebuilding is our d line. to me, the backers are all back, dbs outside of Lucas who was hurt anyway are all back. the o line is all back, the wrs are all back, the rbs are all back, the tight ends are only misssing carter.

so to me at almost every position besides DL we are returning almost the entire depth chart. the qb coupled with the OC should result in better offensive numbers, i personally think Hack would have thrived under Moorhead.

so lets stop the built in excuses for next year already unless our d line is just horrific and our qb stinks up the joint.

many teams have new qbs and do very very well that first year. heck, look at hack his first year, cam newton, baker mayfield, mariota, the list goes on.

Expect more from our team, there is talent, youth, and depth finally. and i believe 2 better coaches in Limegrover and Moorhead from what we have seen last two years.

Right, just have to have a QB that is prepared to play...... Same with the DL as Clemson started a true frosh DT and got to the title game (a kid CJF almost got the year before). Clemson went and got a high end talent and sometimes that what you have to do to recover from losing talent to graduation.

 

[bmw199]

Nice job with this, but I have a few comments:

1 QB
1TB
1 WR
1 TE
4 OL
3 DT (hopefully, with at least one more mature guy - JC or Grad Transfer)
2 DE
1 Box LB
2 Space LB
2 CB
1 S
1 Combo DB
1 PK and 1 P (if possible, 1 guy to fill both roles....to save on scholarships)

I agree pretty much, except that CJF had 4 DT commits at one point and I believe he wanted 4 from the start.

QB - We will never know if Zambiec was his first choice, but he's a nice prospect and I agree the need was met.

TB - Couldn't have done any better - Agree

WR - CJF wanted one quality WR and from those he went after I believe he also was looking for one that would improve the return game immediately. He put out a lot of offers but didn't seem to make much headway with many. We won't know if he went after them hard enough, if he was over confident in Nixon, or..... but he did not land a top WR and was fortunate to get one at all as he also struck out trying to flip the talented Minny commit coming down the stretch. This is not incomplete, but more of a "D" grade.

TE - Couldn't have done any better - Agree

OL - .A great group, but there were some high talents that he had a shot at but did not land. The kids from MD come to mind as opposed to Gellerstadt who looks like a nice prospect but is more of a long term development (like the 2014 OL recruits) than some that could come in early and play which is what we still need. I would not say "couldn't have done any better" but a great group that rates an "A".

Overall - Offense, Given the top talent at RB and OL and the needs filled I agree with "OUTSTANDING"


DT - Overall, solid results at a position were the needs were going to be nearly impossible to meet. Don't agree with your view of what CJF wanted. I believe he wanted 3-4 high school DT's including 2 that were talented enough to come in and play as freshmen in 2016. Diabate would have been one of them and possibly Colon was the other. Then he would have also brought in a JC player to play right away. When he lost Colon and them Dwumfour he had to scramble to find additional DT's, but when Dioubate I believe that triggered going after the 2nd JC player. I'd give him a solid B here. I don't believe he got the high end talent he was looking for in the numbers he was after, but he did get kids that have the potential to contribute right away as well as 2 solid prospects to develop.

DE - Couldn't have done any better. Agree - Simmons and Joseph are studs.

Box LB - Needed one....didn't get one. Unmet need - has to be a 2017 priority. You let him off the hook here somewhat. CJF can't put all his eggs in one basket and he didn't off and/or get involved with enough LB's from the get go to insure he would get 3 total LB's, a must before Reeder left and all the more critical afterwards.

Space LB - Needed two. Overall, OK....and - considering the scarcity of LB prospects in the region, pretty good. I believe there were plenty of LB prospects in the 6 hr radius that CJF says is his core area. There were 1 or 2 from NY, and others from NJ, MD, VA, DC.... that he could have gotten in with back a year or two. When Reeder left and Ferns was on the fence, that was the time to try and close on another combo LB - many of our good LB's played outside and inside. Especially since Brown may grow into a DE and many think DE is Toney's best position.... I would give him the "OK" as well, but he really will need 2 LB's that can play some as freshmen in order to solidify the position depth for 2017.

CB - Like LB, DB has to be a high priority for 2017. Agree - A solid B rating

Combo DB - Would have been nice to get the PA kid, but Johnson will do fine. We struck out here, but not a great need from the roster makeup, so I gotta say "D" at best.

S - Needed one....got left at the altar by Pryts. Again, LB and DB are the high priorities for 2017. Can't do much when what looks like a solid commit bails at the last minute. Having redshirted 3 Safety's last year, no use reaching at last minute.

Overall Defense, "B-". Great DE's and scrambled to end up with a good group of DTs that can help now, but LB needs were not met and DB recruiting was also dissappointing.

P and PK - Couldn't have done any better - Agree

Did damage control down the stretch but could have been in with greater numbers at a couple positions that would have led us to believe that the roster turnover that opened up spots (i.e. the transfers) were not the big surprises that caused open positions to be filled with last minute offers....

The offensive side of the ball....Great everwhere but WR. Hope the kid proves me wrong. The only way to keep great OL's on the field is to bring in 3-5 good OL prospects EVERY year....
On the defensive side...Still need a couple of high end DT's and a number of LB's that are now big needs for 2017. DB talent on roster will likely make the lack of 2016 DB's unnoticed if CJF gets 3-4 good ones in 2017.

Greg who are your DB targets for 2017? I really don't see any outside of Neal and Wade at the moment? Am I missing someone?

 

[GregInPitt]

Greg who are your DB targets for 2017? I really don't see any outside of Neal and Wade at the moment? Am I missing someone?

You are right that 247 only shows 2 as "warm" out of the 7 CB (5 uncommitted) and 6 Safety (4 uncommitted) offers as of now. There is also the Athlete from WV that projects to DB, I believe. But according to 247 CJF only has 86 offers out for 2017 at this point and going forward in the Spring eval period we would expect lots of new offers, particularly at positions where he needs numbers (OL, LB, DB). He'll put on the press for 2 top DT commits and he seems to be in good with a good number of top DE's such that getting 2 early is possible. The first Junior Day should be coming up before the end of Feb. and we'll see plenty of new names surface.

Hard to be optimistic on Wade as Clairton is a pipeline for pitt and he is a national recruit that has been all over the country already.

 

[Doc-M]

Outstanding post, Stink. It is informative and better than anything I have read so far.

 

[bmw199]

You are right that 247 only shows 2 as "warm" out of the 7 CB (5 uncommitted) and 6 Safety (4 uncommitted) offers as of now. There is also the Athlete from WV that projects to DB, I believe. But according to 247 CJF only has 86 offers out for 2017 at this point and going forward in the Spring eval period we would expect lots of new offers, particularly at positions where he needs numbers (OL, LB, DB). The first Junior Day should be coming up before the end of Feb. and we'll see plenty of new names surface.

Hard to be optimistic on Wade as Clairton is a pipeline for pitt and he is a national recruit that has been all over the country already.

I think Wade is Buckeye bound

 

[GregInPitt]

I think Wade is Buckeye bound

Me too. CJF will identify some nice DB's, but the top two in my neck of the woods aren't likely to be going to PSU, Ford and Wade.

Rumor was that the Safety Neal was close to committing.

 

[dbsteel]

Obli- I agree with most of what you write here. However, I think we need to dial back the pressure on next year. Winning solves a lot, but need to be realistic on the experienced talent, especially at key positions. I have plenty of questions about CJF, but next season is not make or break for me. But I understand many will be ready to run him out of town with continued struggles on the field.

I tend to agree with this. Next year I still have pegged as kind of rough. I think the D-Line is somewhat of a rebuild, and I think having a new QB will get us off to a slow start. We need to hope the stud WRs and RBs swing it in the other direction.

 

[bmw199]

We need to hope the stud WRs and RBs swing it in the other direction.

Looking around the Big Ten, I'm not sure who can even come close to matching the current talent we have there. A lot of it unproven for sure, but Johnson and Sanders look like can't miss guys.

 

[PSU20]

Remember that Chavis should be 22 yo when the season rolls around which is a huge plus for a DT. In 2017, he will be 23. You just can't make up those couple extra years, even with a real highly rated DT coming our of hs.

 

[Louisville JD]

First of all, I couldn't care less where the class is "ranked"
1 - Any attempt to rank one class against another is so incredibly layered in subjectivity, that it is truly worthless
2 - If one does give weight to "rankings"....what are you going to do about it? The only thing a program or coaching staff can control is who THEY bring in to THEIR program.

With that in mind, the only sensible way - IMO - to "critique" a recruiting class is from the point of view of:

A - Program has X number of scholarships available
B - Program has Y needs....so many DBs, so many WRs etc
C - Did the program bring in quality prospects at those positions. You are never going to bat 1.000....but did you fill 90% of those needs with quality prospects - or 50%? When you were not able to fill with quality prospects, why not?

So:

PSU had +/- 20 scholarships available
Based on the existing roster, a reasonable breakdown of "needs" (IMO, and there can always be some debate):

1 QB
1TB
1 WR
1 TE
4 OL
3 DT (hopefully, with at least one more mature guy - JC or Grad Transfer)
2 DE
1 Box LB
2 Space LB
2 CB
1 S
1 Combo DB

1 PK and 1 P (if possible, 1 guy to fill both roles....to save on scholarships)

That comes out to 22 Scholarships.......and PSU ended up with 20 signees, so you know some of those "needs" were going to go unmet.
Looking on a need-by-need basis:

QB - PSU had 3 quality QB prospects in the region....Gaurantano from NJ, Haskins from MD, and Zembiec from NY. I think it is clear that the staff liked Zembiec the most.....and they signed him
Couldn't have done any better

TB - PSU was fortunate to have two of the top RB in the country right here in our "region"....Walker from NJ and Sanders from PA. PSU got Sanders, and - as the season went on it appeared to be pretty clear that he was THE most highly regarded TB in the region
Couldn't have done any better

WR - PSU was in a bit of an odd spot here.....on one hand, you would like to bring in at least 1-2 WR every year. On the other hand, PSU has a very young, talented pool of WRs currently on the roster....and more pressing needs elsewhere - and one could make the argument that ZERO WR might have been the right number for this class. The staff seemed to pretty much adopt the position that they couldn't afford many WR this year (which I think was the right call) and really only seemed to pay significant attention to the kid from Florida. He was always a long-shot.
When there were a couple scholarships available late, they grabbed the Temple commit - Darien. (FWIW, Matthews was never much of a WR prospect, and I think Darien is a MUCH better option).
Certainly didn't get any marquise guys here, but it was probably the LOWEST priority position for this class.....and Darien does have some interesting skills
Could be evaluated as an "incomplete"...or as "not applicable"....but adding Darien is a benefit.

TE - PSU needed one....and targeted 2 guys in the region, who both are quality prospects - Angeline from PA, and Dalton from MA (also may have taken a close look at a couple of the Ohio guys, but those were never realistic shots). They didn't have enough scholarships for more than one, and PSU landed Dalton.
Couldn't have done any better

OL - I would have liked to have seen 5 guys on the OL.....but there just were probably too many other needs to allow for that. The top 4 guys the staff targeted in the region, based on how PSU approached recruiting, appeared to be Menet, McGovern, Fries, and Gellerstadt. They received "verbals" from all four of them by the time summer rolled around....and held on to all of them despite a lot of attempted poaching. There were other quality prospects in the region - but PSU had no more room, and you can't lament "losing" guys that you didn't have room for anyway.
Couldn't have done any better

Overall, offensively, this class was OUSTANDING in filling PSU's needs with quality prospects. The defensive side was a little bumpier.


DT - Huge position of need for this class....not so much for bringing in High School kids (there are some nice young kids on the roster who are "developing" at DT) - but they were faced with the much tougher task of needing some guys who could provide immediate help. That is REALLY tough to do at DT or along the OL....you need to sign one of the VERY FEW High School kids who might be capable of contributing as a freshman, or find one of the VERY FEW JuCos who might be available.
The reasonable possibilities wrt guys who might provide some immediate help were probably limited to two - Gary from NJ, and Chavis the JuCo. It was pretty clear early on that Gary just wasn't interested (unfortunate).....Chavis MIGHT be a real stretch academically - and I won't get into that - but, athletically, he is a real critical catch. Bringing in the 2nd JuCo (who has THREE years of eligibility left) was a bonus.
The issues with Colon, Dwumfor, and Diabote were unfortunate...but the biggest need was for the "immediate help" guys, and we do already have some real good youngsters who are likely a year or two away. FWIW, I like Shelton from Ohio more than either Colon or Dwumfor....so I really don't lament not signing those two. I do think Diabote was a real nice prospect who would have been nice to add to the roster..
Not nearly the "disaster" that some want to view it as, and if Chavis and Thrift can buy some time for the young guys already on the roster, it will be a big plus.
Overall, solid results at a position were the needs were going to be nearly impossible to meet

DE - Needed a Rush End and a Strong Side End. Got the top Rush End in the region (one of the best in the country) in Simmons, and a real nice Strong Side End in Joseph.
Couldn't have done any better.

Box LB - Needed one....didn't get one. Was a thin year for LB prospects in the region, and Ferns was probably the only legit high-end option....but tough to overcome that family connection. Maybe the Grad Transfer from Illinois will eventually join on - which would solve the immediate issue....but this has to be a high priority item for next year.
Unmet need - has to be a 2017 priority

Space LB - Needed two. Thin year in the region for LB, not a lot of high-end options, but PSU did get two solid prospects - Brown from MD and Toney from IMHOTEP. I don't expect either of these guys to be ready as Freshman (which was also the case with the 2015 kids - but they HAD TO be rushed in there due to lack of depth and injuries). Hopefully, the injury bug will not be so hard on the LBers this year, and both these kids can redshirt.
Overall, OK....and - considering the scarcity of LB prospects in the region, pretty good.

CB - Needed two. Landed a high quality prospect in McPherson, and - for a time - appeared to have a second in Hill. Alas, Hill ended up staying home. A second would have been really nice, but the current depth chart is both young and talented (as opposed to the situation at LB), so there is time to "make up" in the next class.
Like LB, DB has to be a high priority for 2017.

Combo DB - Needed one, and initially targeted Hamlin as that guy.....when that didn't work out, signed Johnson. I think Johnson is a quality recruit, and I was never a huge fan of Hamlin and I do not think he is a HUGE loss (I think he is a good prospect, but he is not on the same level as a Tyler Boyd, or even a Whitehead, IMO. Those two guys could be special)
Would have been nice to get the PA kid, but Johnson will do fine

S - Needed one....got left at the altar by Pryts.
Again, LB and DB are the high priorities for 2017

P and PK - Huge priorities, and clearly worthy of offering scholarships to quality freshmen recruits. Gilikin and Barbir are outstanding additions. Like many, I am AT LEAST as pleased to have Barbir sign rather than the Diva from Michigan.
Couldn't have done any better


Overall, given the number of scholarships available, and the needs of the roster.....one damn fine class.

One of the most interesting - and promising - things that was revealed with this class is just how INCREDIBLY prepared this coaching staff was. When "shit happened" they seemed to be one step ahead of the game with a counter-move.

Bringing in the two more mature DTs was a critical strategic step.

The offensive side of the ball....what could anyone find to complain about? Aside from the thought that "since we did bring in a WR, would have been nice if he was a STUD"...I can't think of any reasonable complaints - and, FWIW, I think the Darien kid has some nice skills and will eventually contribute (and, of course, WR was the lowest priority spot in the entire 2016 class)
On the defensive side...there was no way to repair the DT spot in just one year (kinda' like the OL situation we faced the last couple of years), but I think the staff did a nice job of making the best of things and trying to find some immediate patches. LB and DB both could have benefitted from some additional numbers - but you only have what you have to work with, if we didn't have such a dire need for a PK and a P, they could have used more scholarships there......but, the key is to jump on those spots aggressively for 2017.

Stink that was awesome! Throw in the great hire of the UofMinny OL coach who has a really good track record in the B1G, the offense in 2016 has a chance to be really special especially in the run attack. Thanks for the deep snalysis!