... when we went late March to September, and the only threads were about the schedule and recruiting? I feel like I live in a blessed time where we can get our wrestling fix year round now. The freestyle scene has been nonstop since March, and with the Olympics only 8 weeks away, before you know it, we'll be talking about how things are shaping up in the room!!!!!!!!!!!!
Remember the 'good' old days ...
- Thread starter Pennstate1985
- Start date
My take is represented by Dickens, "it was the best of times, it was the worst of times"
The negatives include:
fighting for survival as an Olympic sport, and being reduced to 6 freestyle weight classes
lower participation in high school programs (my take is mostly anecdotal; if someone has numbers to prove that one way or the other, feel free to reply)
fewer D-1 programs and fewer scholarship opportunities
Positives:
more media availability of events
some very interesting, high quality college competition
popularity of the NCAA tournament growing...it's now a hot media property
the emergence of Eastern programs in general and Penn State in particular
The negatives include:
fighting for survival as an Olympic sport, and being reduced to 6 freestyle weight classes
lower participation in high school programs (my take is mostly anecdotal; if someone has numbers to prove that one way or the other, feel free to reply)
fewer D-1 programs and fewer scholarship opportunities
Positives:
more media availability of events
some very interesting, high quality college competition
popularity of the NCAA tournament growing...it's now a hot media property
the emergence of Eastern programs in general and Penn State in particular
Penn State was always good - didn't just "emerge". If referring to back to back NCAA Championships, very few teams have ever done that - Iowa, Okie State, now us. So yes, that part is new. Just some thoughts...
I'm digging the Awesome New Days.
First, take a big step back... and literally **** YOUR OWN FACE! I don't know what kind of bullshit power play you're trying to pull here, but folk style wrestling, Jack, is my territory. So whatever you're thinking, you'd better think again! Otherwise I'm gonna have to head down there and I will rain down an un-Godly ******* firestorm upon you! You're gonna have to call the ******* United Nations and get a ******* binding resolution to keep me from ******* destroying you. I'm talking scorched earth, mother******! I will massacre you! I WILL **** YOU UP!
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Taking poetic license on Cael's thoughts as year 8 of his paradigm-shifting move to State College approaches.
First, take a big step back... and literally **** YOUR OWN FACE! I don't know what kind of bullshit power play you're trying to pull here, but folk style wrestling, Jack, is my territory. So whatever you're thinking, you'd better think again! Otherwise I'm gonna have to head down there and I will rain down an un-Godly ******* firestorm upon you! You're gonna have to call the ******* United Nations and get a ******* binding resolution to keep me from ******* destroying you. I'm talking scorched earth, mother******! I will massacre you! I WILL **** YOU UP!
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Taking poetic license on Cael's thoughts as year 8 of his paradigm-shifting move to State College approaches.
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http://www.nfhs.org/ParticipationStatics/PDF/Participation Survey History Book.pdf
http://www.nfhs.org/ParticipationStatics/ParticipationStatics.aspx/
I give four years that are 15 years apart for comparison, but it's similar across the board.
School year____schools wrestling_____rank in sports_____participants____rank in sports
69-70_____________6,870__________________________________226,671__________
84-85_____________8,273__________________8th_____________248,300_______5th
99-00_____________9,046__________________9th_____________241,579_______6th
14-15_____________10,597_________________8th_____________269,704_______6th
So as you can see, there has been no decline in high school participation whether you use total participation or the ranking of wrestling among all high schools sports. At worst it's a push and at best a modest increase in participation. Wrestling is holding its own, and as girls wrestling takes hold, I expect those numbers to blossum substantially. We should all support girls wrestling because someday those girls will be fans of the sport and positive to their sons and daughters about getting into it. Only 11,000 of the 2014-15 participants are girls.
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Not sure I necessarily agree with this. From a raw numbers standpoint wrestling participation has grown (less than 10 percent), but it certainly hasn't kept pace with the student population growth. Not going to look it up but I believe overall population growth has been north of 40 percent in the last 30 years, so I would guess that the high school student population has grown at least 30 percent. Growth in number of programs will certainly increase as new schools are built, but you'll notice wrestlers per program has declined.
To me there has been a decline in participation (percentage wise), but not a dramatic one.
That's why I put the rankings in the post. Wrestling was ranked 5th, 6th, and 6th among total participants in high school sports over a 30 year period I spot tested. Total high school population is meaningless to the issue. The issue is does wrestling get its fair share of athletes, and the answer is YES. There is no decline. Status quo I'd buy, but not a decline.
Again, you can spin stats loads of different ways. Not sure how you can say high school population is meaningless to the issue - it gives context that is necessary to making the statistics meaningful. Taking just the raw data without context can be misleading. Also, presenting "ranks" alongside the participation data is what I would term meaningless. It may fall in line with conclusions you can take from the data, and it may not. For example if this was the data (just making numbers up), what conclusion would you draw?
1985 participation numbers:
1. Football - 1 million
2. Basketball - 750,000
3. Baseball - 500,000
4. Wrestling - 300,000
5. Hockey - 100,000
2015 participation numbers
1. Football - 2.0 million
2. Hockey - 1.75 million
3. Wrestling - 280,000
4. Baseball - 275,000
5. Basketball - 250,000
Would you conclude that wrestling participation grew because it went from #4 to #3? Probably not.
Would you categorize someone who made $7,500/year in 1972 and made $10,000/year in 2015 as having growth in income? As status quo? Extreme example, but using it to make a point.
I'm not prepared to say that high school wrestling participation is declining unless I actually take the time to pore through the numbers, but to present it going from the #5 to #6 to #6 as evidence of status quo is not meaningful. It may be status quo, but the information you are presenting does not make it so.
Listen, Roy boy asked for numbers. I gave some of them to him along with 45 years of data. I'm not going to put together all 45 years. You don't need total hs population to determine wrestling's place in hs sports. You just don't. We'll agree to disagree.
