Russia escalates...and we're one step closer to a nuclear crisis

The Spin Meister

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This first sentence always seemed obvious to me. There is NO WAY that Putin will simply walk away with his tail between his legs. The best case is a brokered agreement where Russia takes control of some regions but the longer we continue to support Ukraine the longer it will take to get to this point. Remember, we're all in this together.

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Interesting stuff. But the neighboring countries quickly sent in as much equipment as they could spare. Not sure how all this old equipment was rated but it was very effective in holding off the Ruskies until the west caught up. And these same countries have been spending their prescribed allocations for defense spending since joining NATO, unlike most other Euro weenies.

Also, those countries have massive refugee problems they are dealing with. Millions have fled the fighting and are a major strain on the finances of those countries. You could even add I. The economic hit they had as they lost a lot of business, both export and import, with both Russia and Ukraine.
 

Nittany Ned2

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And we're still higher than most of the places on that list who are far closer and are much more affected by this than us....so what's your point.
Interesting stuff. But the neighboring countries quickly sent in as much equipment as they could spare. Not sure how all this old equipment was rated but it was very effective in holding off the Ruskies until the west caught up. And these same countries have been spending their prescribed allocations for defense spending since joining NATO, unlike most other Euro weenies.

Also, those countries have massive refugee problems they are dealing with. Millions have fled the fighting and are a major strain on the finances of those countries. You could even add I. The economic hit they had as they lost a lot of business, both export and import, with both Russia and Ukraine.
Here is another point that is conveniently overlooked. With all of this equipment that is being sent in, both old or new, The military stocks will have to be replaced. That is an economic opportunity for the US tech and defense sectors. In as much as we have some of the most sought after weapons systems and high technology, we are at a distinct economic advantage. At the very time when our economy needs it.
 

Jerry

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Pretty much THIS ^^^^. I'm starting to think that Jerry should be renamed "Henny Penny."

I prefer Prophet of Doom.

No seriously, I'm not predicting a nuclear disaster. I'm just saying that we're moving closer to the pieces being in place.

Also, the landscape of Brave New Amerika 2022 has a biblical sort of feel to it. The overthrow of the moral order. The installation of false gods. The deification of self. The Regime of Lies.

Yeah, nuclear incineration fits right into that picture.
 

WeR0206

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You're laboring under a basic confusion. Let me help you out:

When we overthrow a government, it's not a "coup" but rather a spontaneous outburst of popular fervor.

When we invade a country, it's always for noble and just reasons.

When we sponsor a foreign election, it's always free and fair by definition.

It's only the other guys who commit crimes against Sacred Global Democracy.

But seriously, the planned referendums are a farce. People can't very well cast a meaningful vote in the presence of occupying forces with shells raining down on their heads.

There is hardly any suspense here as to the outcome: a vote in favor of joining Russia.
Yes and those shells that have bee raining down on the donbass the last 8 yrs were coming from the Ukrainian side of the contact line. It’s the AFU that has been committing war crimes there for 8 yrs. You bet your ass they are voting to join Russia. Putin is telling the west that if they vote to join any attack on them will be viewed as an attack on Russia. Ukraine’s continued shelling of civilians in the Donbas made this move an imperative. One of the main reasons Zelensky was elected was because he promised to end the shelling etc. of the Donbass and when he won he went to ask them to stop and the nazis laughed in his face and told him to piss off.

Some good analysis here by Larry Johnson:


Now we are getting some insight into Russia’s activities over the last three weeks. It now appears that the withdrawal/retreat from Kharkov was part of a broader plan that is going to culminate in the referenda by the oblasts of Luhansk, Donetsk, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson starting this Friday. This is not some last minute, desperate stunt. It flows logically from Russia’s attempt to use the Special Military Operation as leverage to compel serious negotiations on the futures and independence of Donetsk and Luhansk.

There is some great commentary on this. I suggest you watch at least one of the following from the boys at Duran or Andrei Martyanov:


The referenda are part of a dance with Russian law. Russia’s Duma has met and passed legislation that will govern how new territories, along with their citizens, are admitted into the Russian Republic. I must emphasize that the decision to hold the referenda this week was made some weeks ago. Ukraine’s continued shelling of civilians in the Donbas made this move an imperative.

Once the votes are completed and the results announced, the next move will be Russia’s–i.e., welcoming the former Ukrainian oblasts into the Russian Republic. Once they are admitted, any further attack by Ukraine on those territories will be an act of war against Russia. Putin has made it very clear that he will act against any nation waging war against Russia and its citizens. This move is putting the United States and NATO on notice. If they continue to enable Ukrainian attacks on Russian citizens then they will be targeted in response.

We are crossing a threshold that could escalate into World War III. I am certain that Vladimir Putin is not playing games. He is not Joe Biden. He does not speak foolishly off-the cuff nor does he make idle threats. From the Russian perspective, Russia’s very existence is at stake.

This should sober the west up, but that is unlikely. France’s Macron was first out of the gate today issuing empty threats against Russia. Biden’s White House was close behind. Howls of outrage. But Russia no longer cares. It has watched the west play the mute during the last 8 years while the democratically elected President of Ukraine was forced from office (with the active backing of UK and US officials) and while Ukraine subsequently killed thousands of men, women and children in the Donbas. The west was quite clear–it did not care.

Washington and NATO have shot their wad and have no credible conventional military force to counter Russia accepting the results of the referenda. Their only alternative beyond throwing a tantrum is to threaten the use of nuclear weapons.

Despite the potential peril of this moment, I am amused by the irony of the United States, the United Kingdom and France feigning moral outrage over the Russian’s willingness to accept the results of the votes by citizens of Donetsk, Luhansk, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson. Did the United States hold a referendum when it took Hawaii or Mexican territory? Did the United Kingdom allow the American colonies a referendum when they wanted their independence? Hell, go down the list of British colonies that were taken by force without the natives of those countries being given a chance to vote to “join” the UK. Ditto for France. I don’t recall them holding an election when they took over Vietnam. It was only when the North Vietnamese held a “vote” at Dien Bien Phu that France “decided” to accept the will of the people.

Unlike the United States and the former global colonial powers, Russia is letting the people in the besieged Ukrainian oblasts decide. We are living through consequential history. This is a true game changer.

One final point. If China backs Russia on this move it is likely that Russia has provide China with guarantees that Moscow will support Beijing when it moves against Taiwan. We shall see.”

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bdgan

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Interesting stuff. But the neighboring countries quickly sent in as much equipment as they could spare. Not sure how all this old equipment was rated but it was very effective in holding off the Ruskies until the west caught up. And these same countries have been spending their prescribed allocations for defense spending since joining NATO, unlike most other Euro weenies.

Also, those countries have massive refugee problems they are dealing with. Millions have fled the fighting and are a major strain on the finances of those countries. You could even add I. The economic hit they had as they lost a lot of business, both export and import, with both Russia and Ukraine.
  1. Poland and Russia are taking the most of refugees.
  2. Germany is taking some but eff them. They're the ones who made the pipeline deal with Russia. Besides, their debt/GDP is half what it is in the USA. We spend 3.6% of GDP and they spend 1.5%. PAY UP!
  3. Italy, Spain, Denmark, etc. all spend 1/3 as much as the U.S. spends as a % of GDP.
 
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Gnat91

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According to the Ukraine Support Trackerfrom the Kiel Institute for the World Economy, which lists and quantifies military, financial and humanitarian aid pledges to Ukraine, Washington provided Kyiv with the equivalent of €7.6 billion in the four weeks following the start of Russia's invasion on 24 February.

This is by far the largest contribution with Poland coming second with an envelope of just under €1 billion followed by the UK, Germany and France.


EU member states contributed a combined 2.9 billion, with an additional 1.4 billion coming from EU institutions and 2 billion from the European Investment Bank.

"It is remarkable that the US alone is giving significantly more than the entire EU, in whose immediate neighbourhood the war is raging," Christoph Trebesch, research director at the Kiel Institute and lead author of its Tracker, said in a statement.
 

The Spin Meister

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  1. Poland and Russia are taking the most of refugees.
  2. Germany is taking some but eff them. They're the ones who made the pipeline deal with Russia. Besides, their debt/GDP is half what it is in the USA. We spend 3.6% of GDP and they spend 1.5%. PAY UP!
  3. Italy, Spain, Denmark, etc. all spend 1/3 as much as the U.S. spends as a % of GDP.
I said ‘neighboring countries’ which are Poland, the Baltics, Romania, and Bulgaria.....IIRC.
 
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Jerry

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Move to Russia, please. If you start a go fund me page I will donate.

Move to Ukraine please. If you start a go-fund me page I will donate.

Oh and take your buddy tgar with you. I would have thought the both of you would be there by now defending your adopted country's honor in the trenches.

But no...chickenhawks of a feather flock together...well away from the sound of the guns...
 

The Spin Meister

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Yes and those shells that have bee raining down on the donbass the last 8 yrs were coming from the Ukrainian side of the contact line. It’s the AFU that has been committing war crimes there for 8 yrs. You bet your ass they are voting to join Russia. Putin is telling the west that if they vote to join any attack on them will be viewed as an attack on Russia. Ukraine’s continued shelling of civilians in the Donbas made this move an imperative. One of the main reasons Zelensky was elected was because he promised to end the shelling etc. of the Donbass and when he won he went to ask them to stop and the nazis laughed in his face and told him to piss off.

Some good analysis here by Larry Johnson:


Now we are getting some insight into Russia’s activities over the last three weeks. It now appears that the withdrawal/retreat from Kharkov was part of a broader plan that is going to culminate in the referenda by the oblasts of Luhansk, Donetsk, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson starting this Friday. This is not some last minute, desperate stunt. It flows logically from Russia’s attempt to use the Special Military Operation as leverage to compel serious negotiations on the futures and independence of Donetsk and Luhansk.

There is some great commentary on this. I suggest you watch at least one of the following from the boys at Duran or Andrei Martyanov:




The referenda are part of a dance with Russian law. Russia’s Duma has met and passed legislation that will govern how new territories, along with their citizens, are admitted into the Russian Republic. I must emphasize that the decision to hold the referenda this week was made some weeks ago. Ukraine’s continued shelling of civilians in the Donbas made this move an imperative.

Once the votes are completed and the results announced, the next move will be Russia’s–i.e., welcoming the former Ukrainian oblasts into the Russian Republic. Once they are admitted, any further attack by Ukraine on those territories will be an act of war against Russia. Putin has made it very clear that he will act against any nation waging war against Russia and its citizens. This move is putting the United States and NATO on notice. If they continue to enable Ukrainian attacks on Russian citizens then they will be targeted in response.

We are crossing a threshold that could escalate into World War III. I am certain that Vladimir Putin is not playing games. He is not Joe Biden. He does not speak foolishly off-the cuff nor does he make idle threats. From the Russian perspective, Russia’s very existence is at stake.

This should sober the west up, but that is unlikely. France’s Macron was first out of the gate today issuing empty threats against Russia. Biden’s White House was close behind. Howls of outrage. But Russia no longer cares. It has watched the west play the mute during the last 8 years while the democratically elected President of Ukraine was forced from office (with the active backing of UK and US officials) and while Ukraine subsequently killed thousands of men, women and children in the Donbas. The west was quite clear–it did not care.

Washington and NATO have shot their wad and have no credible conventional military force to counter Russia accepting the results of the referenda. Their only alternative beyond throwing a tantrum is to threaten the use of nuclear weapons.

Despite the potential peril of this moment, I am amused by the irony of the United States, the United Kingdom and France feigning moral outrage over the Russian’s willingness to accept the results of the votes by citizens of Donetsk, Luhansk, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson. Did the United States hold a referendum when it took Hawaii or Mexican territory? Did the United Kingdom allow the American colonies a referendum when they wanted their independence? Hell, go down the list of British colonies that were taken by force without the natives of those countries being given a chance to vote to “join” the UK. Ditto for France. I don’t recall them holding an election when they took over Vietnam. It was only when the North Vietnamese held a “vote” at Dien Bien Phu that France “decided” to accept the will of the people.

Unlike the United States and the former global colonial powers, Russia is letting the people in the besieged Ukrainian oblasts decide. We are living through consequential history. This is a true game changer.

One final point. If China backs Russia on this move it is likely that Russia has provide China with guarantees that Moscow will support Beijing when it moves against Taiwan. We shall see.”

r0wLXo1.jpg
Pravda? Babylonbee? Jen Psaki? The current WH spin doctoring? Biden? Pelosi? Hildebeast? Baghdad Bob? Hard to tell who is the real author of that. Just fascinating stuff.
 
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The Spin Meister

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The referenda are part of a dance with Russian law. Russia’s Duma has met and passed legislation that will govern how new territories, along with their citizens, are admitted into the Russian Republic. I must emphasize that the decision to hold the referenda this week was made some weeks ago. Ukraine’s continued shelling of civilians in the Donbas made this move an imperative.

Once the votes are completed and the results announced, the next move will be Russia’s–i.e., welcoming the former Ukrainian oblasts into the Russian Republic. Once they are admitted, any further attack by Ukraine on those territories will be an act of war against Russia. Putin has made it very clear that he will act against any nation waging war against Russia and its citizens. This move is putting the United States and NATO on notice. If they continue to enable Ukrainian attacks on Russian citizens then they will be targeted in response.
And people laughed at me when I said Putin was using Hitler’s playbook.
 
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The Spin Meister

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It now appears that the withdrawal/retreat from Kharkov was part of a broader plan that is going to culminate in the referenda by the oblasts of Luhansk, Donetsk, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson starting this Friday. This is not some last minute, desperate stunt
Lolol. So they planned on abandoning lots of tanks, trucks, artillery, ammo, Intel, comms, supplies, and more. Putin must have studied our ‘highly successful withdrawal’ from Afghanistan and thought we developed some new and great method of withdrawals so decided to copy the great US Dept of Defense.
 
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Jerry

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The U.S. has sent more than $54 billion to Ukraine since the war against Russia started, according to The New York Times.

Now, Google “ dance clubs in Kiev Ukraine” then Google “ Jackson Mississippi drinking shit water “.

And also check out the Vogue spread featuring Zelensky and his little lady.

Somehow they found time to take a break from their arduous roles as Dem-Media heroes of our age to pose for a puff piece by the fashion organ of the Regime's propaganda machine.

Zelensky knows he doesn't have to worry. The checks signed by Senile Joe on behalf of those residents of Jackson, Mississippi (and elsewhere) will keep flooding in.
 
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WeR0206

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Lolol. So they planned on abandoning lots of tanks, trucks, artillery, ammo, Intel, comms, supplies, and more. Putin must have studied our ‘highly successful withdrawal’ from Afghanistan and thought we developed some new and great method of withdrawals so decided to copy the great US Dept of Defense.
How do you know they abandoned all that stuff? Was it new enough to justify the risk in moving it? You are very triggered over this. You’re marching in lockstep with the very western msm you know is corrupt (peepee tape peddlers).

If you don’t think the AFU has been shelling civilians in the donbass the last 8 yrs how do you explain the 20+K deaths there over 8 yrs? Caused by russia? Please. How do you explain the dozens and dozens of civilian interviews where they say the attacks are coming from AFU? All crisis actors? You’ve never even attempted to explain that away.




What’s going on in Ukraine isn’t a russian invasion, it’s a civil war with the west backing a corrupt regime in kiev and russia backing the ethnic russians in southern and eastern Ukraine that have been getting slaughtered by the corrupt regime (who happens to be staffed with tons of actual nazis who view ethnic russians as subhumans). Most of the fighting is being done by LPR and DPR soldiers not Russians although some Chechens have been used in Mariupol to fight avoz psychos.

All of your info is coming from Kiev without being independently corroborated by the west. Ponder that for a moment.
 
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rumble_lion

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Lolol. So they planned on abandoning lots of tanks, trucks, artillery, ammo, Intel, comms, supplies, and more. Putin must have studied our ‘highly successful withdrawal’ from Afghanistan and thought we developed some new and great method of withdrawals so decided to copy the great US Dept of Defense.

Lolol. So they planned on abandoning lots of tanks, trucks, artillery, ammo, Intel, comms, supplies, and more.

Those aren't even Russian soldiers that are retreating, they are crisis actors!
 

Hotshoe

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General Hodges has been nothing short of brilliant in communicating the real situation




Hodges makes a very revelatory comment. Russia is such a military power that less than ten months into a conflict and they are buying artillery rounds…from North Korea…. ‘Nuf said.

Jerry should grow a pair or move to Russia.
This is beyond laughable. Germany isn't remotely close to the leading military power in Europe. Their military is a fking disgrace that, at best, is at 70% capacity. England and France would fking destroy Germany.

 
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rumble_lion

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This is beyond laughable. Germany isn't remotely close to the leading military power in Europe. Their military is a fking disgrace that, at best, is at 70% capacity. England and France would fking destroy Germany.


England and France would fking destroy Germany.

I think I heard that somewhere before.

Hmmm, wonder why Germany is not huge military power? Maybe something bad happened in that area in the past perhaps?
 

Nittany Ned2

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This is beyond laughable. Germany isn't remotely close to the leading military power in Europe. Their military is a fking disgrace that, at best, is at 70% capacity. England and France would fking destroy Germany.

Hello moron.
He’s trying to overcome German public heasitancy. It was a Deutsche Welle Interview after all.

Hodges lives in Frankfurt and works for agencies HQ’d in Germany. It’s a subtle game he’s playing. I thought that interview was brilliant. Read some of the comments. I understand nuance is not your strong suit. The Germans need coaching. I love how he mentioned the Stolpersteine. They can relate to that.

Also, they have absorbed >900,000 Ukrainian refugees. Can you imagine the shit fit that would happen here?
 
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Nittany Ned2

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No easy answers, maybe we give them some land, call a truce and hope Putin die soon.

Putin will first see if Winter will destroy NATO will with gas and oil being cut off which give us another 5-6 months.
I just heard an interview of James Stavridis and he said LNG terminals are in the works. The Euros are going all out on them now. It will be a win win for them and for North America.
 

kts136

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I just heard an interview of James Stavridis and he said LNG terminals are in the works. The Euros are going all out on them now. It will be a win win for them and for North America.
So we pay for the war in their area of the world while they spend money, not protecting their neighbors, but building the very things they scoffed at certain people for suggesting they do in the first place? And you think this is great?
 
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The Spin Meister

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I just heard an interview of James Stavridis and he said LNG terminals are in the works. The Euros are going all out on them now. It will be a win win for them and for North America.
Gonna take at least a year for those to come on line. Nat gas there is over $60/BTU. People are posting outrageous heating and electric bills online. Gonna be a brutal winter for them and for us.
 

PaoliLion

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I posted a month ago that >>...if the tide turns against Moscow, Putin will escalate rather than "lose." To me, this has always seemed obvious.<<

And here we are: an impending annexation of swaths of Ukrainian territory accompanied by partial mobilization and the call-up of military reserves.

After the sham referendums and annexation of the occupied regions, the Russian leader in effect has declared that any attack on Kherson or the Donbas will be treated as an attack on Russia, potentially requiring a proportionate response. "All means at our disposal...this is not a bluff," said Putin.

It's an escalating crisis that didn't have to happen except for a kind of madness that has infected our leadership class. It's not enough for them to wreck our own country. They've set their sights on bigger game...like the entire friggin' world.

The only way Putin "loses" will be if he's not the only one losing, which means that in the end he'll take the temple down on everyone's head to prevent a "win" by the Regime.

In fact, this is a game that could only have been won by not playing.

@Jerry …aka, Russia sympathizer
 

LafayetteBear

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I prefer Prophet of Doom.

No seriously, I'm not predicting a nuclear disaster. I'm just saying that we're moving closer to the pieces being in place.

Also, the landscape of Brave New Amerika 2022 has a biblical sort of feel to it. The overthrow of the moral order. The installation of false gods. The deification of self. The Regime of Lies.

Yeah, nuclear incineration fits right into that picture.
Prophet of Doom it is, Jerry. (And BTW, I appreciate your ability to employ humor and bit of self deprecation.)

Who knows? Vlad could conceivably go crazy and launch a "modest" nuclear strike on a Ukrainian city. But as desperate as he is (and he is desperate if he has begun conscripting Russians for military service in this deeply unpopular invasion), I nonetheless believe that he is focused, above all, on self preservation and maintaining himself in power. Precipitating open military conflict with the U.S. and NATO seems, IMHO, totally contrary to those goals.
 

Jerry

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Prophet of Doom it is, Jerry. (And BTW, I appreciate your ability to employ humor and bit of self deprecation.)

Who knows? Vlad could conceivably go crazy and launch a "modest" nuclear strike on a Ukrainian city. But as desperate as he is (and he is desperate if he has begun conscripting Russians for military service in this deeply unpopular invasion), I nonetheless believe that he is focused, above all, on self preservation and maintaining himself in power. Precipitating open military conflict with the U.S. and NATO seems, IMHO, totally contrary to those goals.

That's a fair point, Laf.

The problem is that self-preservation and maintaining himself in power is not compatible with an abject defeat in Ukraine such as the U.S. government is attempting (and using Ukraine) to inflict.

Biden let the cat out of the bag with his half-senile admission that the actual policy of his government is to take Putin out one way or the other.

But when you corner a wounded animal and leave it no escape route, rationality goes out the window.

Putin's statement yesterday amounted to an extraordinary threat to use nuclear weapons. Much better to take it seriously and have it be a bluff than the other way around.

Instead, the Regime's propaganda machine predictably reacted with dismissive sneers. The stage is being set for a possible catastrophe. We're closer to it than people understand.
 
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The Spin Meister

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That's a fair point, Laf.

The problem is that self-preservation and maintaining himself in power is not compatible with an abject defeat in Ukraine such as the U.S. government is attempting (and using Ukraine) to inflict.

Biden let the cat out of the bag with his half-senile admission that the actual policy of his government is to take Putin out one way or the other.

But when you corner a wounded animal and leave it no escape route, rationality goes out the window.

Putin's statement yesterday amounted to an extraordinary threat to use nuclear weapons. Much better to take it seriously and have it be a bluff than the other way around.

Instead, the Regime's propaganda machine predictably reacted with dismissive sneers. The stage is being set for a possible catastrophe. We're closer to it than people understand.
Putin needs to take a page from the 🤡 party playbook. He should withdraw all his troops and then play the poor little victim. Say he went in with great intentions to save Ukraine from all those evil NAZIs but the whole world conspired against him. Play victim and cry how Russia is disrespected by the world and how unfair it is. How those evil western capitalist pigs hate poor little pristine Russia.

Hell, the western press would likely play along since they always push the victim gambit. Maybe demand reparations for Russia for our evil ways. Never underestimate our own self hatred.
 

WeR0206

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Putin needs to take a page from the 🤡 party playbook. He should withdraw all his troops and then play the poor little victim. Say he went in with great intentions to save Ukraine from all those evil NAZIs but the whole world conspired against him. Play victim and cry how Russia is disrespected by the world and how unfair it is. How those evil western capitalist pigs hate poor little pristine Russia.

Hell, the western press would likely play along since they always push the victim gambit. Maybe demand reparations for Russia for our evil ways. Never underestimate our own self hatred.
The whole world didn't conspire against him, only the west/NATO. The majority of the world's population didn't sign on to the sanctions including neutral countries that are friendly towards the US like India. Why is that do you think? Perhaps they are well aware of the nazi and biolab infested hellhole that Ukraine has descended into after the illegal armed coup in 2014? They are well aware corrupt billionaire oligarchs are compromising western establishment politicians and funding a lot of the extremist groups which then go on to commit war crimes and genocide in the donbass (some of these groups were even officially incorporated into the Ukrainian govt such as Azov).


Oh look at this, a pre 2022 MSM article talking about war crimes being committed by pyscho nazis in Ukraine after the 2014 coup. It must be made up right?

You better tell Amnesty International they got it all wrong back in 2014:

Tell Human Rights Watch they got it wrong too:

 
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