should we be paying mens CFB and CBB players?

[blion72]

this is a raging debate in the media, who seems to be taking the side of paying the players. a common theme is that this is now a matter of compensating poor players who are being enslaved by the system. to me this is a troubling argument.

I think if this is not addressed it will become a big problem for ADs at most D1 programs. for starters, any kind of increased comp - even if done by the players on their own, will likely raise some sort of creative lawyer argument that under Title IX the comp will have to be equalized. i think that will happen even if the money is being earned direct to players from say advertisers - even though it makes sense. a big reason so many ADs have budget issues now is Title IX entitlement costs where the big revenue sports have to carry the whole place.

if we get past that point, there will be a compensation level issue. For example, if you attend Bama, will some advertiser pay you more than say they would at UCF? it is hard to imagine that this will be an easy solution. What happens if a player is getting advertising $$$, and they become academically ineligible? what if a player gets benched for no apparent reason (we have seen this with PSU palyers already) will they lose $$$?

For me, the easy solution is just have the NBA and NFL run minor league programs like we already see for Hockey and baseball. Then a player can be drafted out of HS - not get any $$, but sign with the program of their choice. the people arguing for paying players already are saying that the players have no interest in college anyhow, so let them go pro. the NBA and NFL can bestow on these players big paydays if they want. there is no way there is $$$ to pay these players from the schools. many cannot fund their athletic depts now.

The NFL and NBA could fund scholarship $$$ for these minor league players to use in the future if they wanted. kind of a GI bill for players.

this would keep the ncaa around the student-athlete and the pro leagues running their minor league. the NCAA is not supposed to be a minor league. Emmert seems to not support the paying players idea.

what is wrong with a minor league and getting these players out of the schools where many of them are not prepared to be students anyhow. what bad thing happens?

 

[Art]

Don't quit your day job.

 

[interrobang]

Ironically, the only way such a system would work is to let it work the way it works now. All the stuff under the table and behind closed doors.

 

[Tweedbear]

Having paid well in excess of 250000 in tuition I would say they are paid.

 

[PaoliLion]

Some students already get paid..,grad students get a monthly stipend and undergrad students can get scholarships that exceed their tuition. I think that’s a very good starting point for paying athletes and something that most D1 programs come of afford

 

[Rip_E_2_Joe_PA]

Yes they should get paid. What they do carries the cost of Billions in Real Estate owned by the Universities, conferences, NCAA, Networks and well paying jobs for executives, administrators, coaches, squawking heads, Beer manufacturers, fake recruiting analysts, Blog hogs.... etc etc. Many player already paid and don't get their degrees while others do. The degree argument is laughable.....The system hasn't had an iota of integrity for decades. Why keep pretending.... because one pill makes you larger one pill makes you small?

21% of NBA active players have managed to earned a degree.

 

[Norm Petersin]

The SEC already pays their players

 

[psu1969a]

this is a raging debate in the media, who seems to be taking the side of paying the players. a common theme is that this is now a matter of compensating poor players who are being enslaved by the system. to me this is a troubling argument.

I think if this is not addressed it will become a big problem for ADs at most D1 programs. for starters, any kind of increased comp - even if done by the players on their own, will likely raise some sort of creative lawyer argument that under Title IX the comp will have to be equalized. i think that will happen even if the money is being earned direct to players from say advertisers - even though it makes sense. a big reason so many ADs have budget issues now is Title IX entitlement costs where the big revenue sports have to carry the whole place.

if we get past that point, there will be a compensation level issue. For example, if you attend Bama, will some advertiser pay you more than say they would at UCF? it is hard to imagine that this will be an easy solution. What happens if a player is getting advertising $$$, and they become academically ineligible? what if a player gets benched for no apparent reason (we have seen this with PSU palyers already) will they lose $$$?

For me, the easy solution is just have the NBA and NFL run minor league programs like we already see for Hockey and baseball. Then a player can be drafted out of HS - not get any $$, but sign with the program of their choice. the people arguing for paying players already are saying that the players have no interest in college anyhow, so let them go pro. the NBA and NFL can bestow on these players big paydays if they want. there is no way there is $$$ to pay these players from the schools. many cannot fund their athletic depts now.

The NFL and NBA could fund scholarship $$$ for these minor league players to use in the future if they wanted. kind of a GI bill for players.

this would keep the ncaa around the student-athlete and the pro leagues running their minor league. the NCAA is not supposed to be a minor league. Emmert seems to not support the paying players idea.

what is wrong with a minor league and getting these players out of the schools where many of them are not prepared to be students anyhow. what bad thing happens?

Yes, all players on the team get a flat rate say $75,000 + health insurance for the player only.

Then we deduction FIT, SIT, EIT, FICA, Unemployment Compensation Tax, Tuition, Room & Board. They can have what's left!

Gross 75,000.00

FIT (15% lowest rate) 11,500.00
SIT (PA 3.07%) 2,775.00
EIT (many are 2.0%) 1,500.00
FICA (7.5%) 5,625.00
Tuition (in state) 35,000.00 Out of state would be an additional $10,000 for tuition
Room and Meals 11,280.00
Miscellaneous cost 3,451.00 average of 1,840.00 to 5,062.00 Miscellaneous cost (travel, personal expenses, books, supplies, etc.) vary by individual and academic program of study)
TOTAL 71,131.00

Net 3,869.00
Equate to roughly 15.00 per week.

Roughly 36.00/hour for 40 hour work week.

 

[blion72]

Yes, all players on the team get a flat rate say $75,000 + health insurance for the player only.

Then we deduction FIT, SIT, EIT, FICA, Unemployment Compensation Tax, Tuition, Room & Board. They can have what's left!

Gross 75,000.00

FIT (15% lowest rate) 11,500.00
SIT (PA 3.07%) 2,775.00
EIT (many are 2.0%) 1,500.00
FICA (7.5%) 5,625.00
Tuition (in state) 35,000.00 Out of state would be an additional $10,000 for tuition
Room and Meals 11,280.00
Miscellaneous cost 3,451.00 average of 1,840.00 to 5,062.00 Miscellaneous cost (travel, personal expenses, books, supplies, etc.) vary by individual and academic program of study)
TOTAL 71,131.00

Net 3,869.00
Equate to roughly 15.00 per week.

Roughly 36.00/hour for 40 hour work week.

the pay the players people are putting no value on the very real items you have here. totally agree with your analysis, but heard a lawyer say the playerr see no value in the degree or education.

 

[Art]

Yes, all players on the team get a flat rate say $75,000 + health insurance for the player only.

Then we deduction FIT, SIT, EIT, FICA, Unemployment Compensation Tax, Tuition, Room & Board. They can have what's left!

Gross 75,000.00

FIT (15% lowest rate) 11,500.00
SIT (PA 3.07%) 2,775.00
EIT (many are 2.0%) 1,500.00
FICA (7.5%) 5,625.00
Tuition (in state) 35,000.00 Out of state would be an additional $10,000 for tuition
Room and Meals 11,280.00
Miscellaneous cost 3,451.00 average of 1,840.00 to 5,062.00 Miscellaneous cost (travel, personal expenses, books, supplies, etc.) vary by individual and academic program of study)
TOTAL 71,131.00

Net 3,869.00
Equate to roughly 15.00 per week.

Roughly 36.00/hour for 40 hour work week.

Funny how the assumptions used to crunch numbers always seem to produce the desired result.

 

[RGWhirly]

No way schools will ever be able to justify paying FB and MBB, even though they are the big revenue sports, because as someone mentioned Title IX. Beyond that, depending on school and sport, some schools have other sports that actually make some money.

If schools are forced to pay all student-athletes, not even Penn State could afford to pay all of them beyond current costs and the expected yearly escalation.

That would leave only the options of tremendously jacking up ticket prices and donation levels or cutting the number of teams dramatically.

Current system is lesser of the evils in my 2 cent opinion.

 

[Art]

No way schools will ever be able to justify paying FB and MBB, even though they are the big revenue sports, because as someone mentioned Title IX. Beyond that, depending on school and sport, some schools have other sports that actually make some money.

If schools are forced to pay all student-athletes, not even Penn State could afford to pay all of them beyond current costs and the expected yearly escalation.

That would leave only the options of tremendously jacking up ticket prices and donation levels or cutting the number of teams dramatically.

Current system is lesser of the evils in my 2 cent opinion.

You're assuming that under whatever regime is devised that paid players would be classified as students rather than employees. Title IX doesn't apply to employees.

 

[royboy]

Deep thoughts by blion...
Chapter 193

 

[Lion Lineage]

The problem I have with the current set up is that student-athletes (who are adults) are not allowed to either control or profit from their image. TV networks routinely use the images of student-athletes to advertise games and schools use the images of student-athletes on their websites, on the covers of game programs, on tickets, on ads they produce to sell tickets... . Clearly they see a value in using their images.

Can you imagine an ad for a Penn State game from this past season that didn’t feature Barkley? Yet he had no say in how or when his image was used, nor did he profit from any of the revenue that was generated by the use of his image. Let’s face it, people watch these games because they want to see a high level of athleticism and competition, and that’s why players like Barkley are featured. So their images help to generate billions in revenue for the networks and the schools but he’s not allowed to see a penny of it because he’s an “amateur” that makes millions for everyone but himself.

If a company like Nike wants to pay a student-athlete to endorse their product, why is that the business of either the school or the NCAA? If while a student-athlete John Urschel had been offered a summer job by NASA to work on some type of rocketry project that reuquired math skills that he possessed, and they offered him $10,000 to do this work I believe he would have been allowed to because it doesn’t involve football. But if Nike said to him that they want to give him $10,000 to advertise their shoes, that’s not okay and he would have lost his eligibility to play had he accepted. So he can profit from one skill while a student-athlete but not another because...this horrid organization called the NCAA says so.

 

[RGWhirly]

You're assuming that under whatever regime is devised that paid players would be classified as students rather than employees. Title IX doesn't apply to employees.

Of course I am making assumptions, have to as there could be many different scenarios how this would play out.

 

[Art]

Of course I am making assumptions, have to as there could be many different scenarios how this would play out.

You're correct, there are multiple scenarios. Pointless to discuss them in detail unless there is a compelling reason for one or two.

Be patient. Jenkins is going to trial in early December.

 

[BOSCO2]

No matter what, if any, changes are made, please be assured that those who cheat to win will still cheat to win. Players that have their hand out for more will still have their hand out for more.

 

[RGWhirly]

You're correct, there are multiple scenarios. Pointless to discuss them in detail unless there is a compelling reason for one or two.

Be patient. Jenkins is going to trial in early December.

Many of the discussions on this board are pointless.

 

[gfour18]

 

[WDLion]

Ironically, the only way such a system would work is to let it work the way it works now. All the stuff under the table and behind closed doors.

At least they will have to pay taxes on a small percentage of their income.

 

[AWS1022]

this is a raging debate in the media, who seems to be taking the side of paying the players. a common theme is that this is now a matter of compensating poor players who are being enslaved by the system. to me this is a troubling argument.

I think if this is not addressed it will become a big problem for ADs at most D1 programs. for starters, any kind of increased comp - even if done by the players on their own, will likely raise some sort of creative lawyer argument that under Title IX the comp will have to be equalized. i think that will happen even if the money is being earned direct to players from say advertisers - even though it makes sense. a big reason so many ADs have budget issues now is Title IX entitlement costs where the big revenue sports have to carry the whole place.

if we get past that point, there will be a compensation level issue. For example, if you attend Bama, will some advertiser pay you more than say they would at UCF? it is hard to imagine that this will be an easy solution. What happens if a player is getting advertising $$$, and they become academically ineligible? what if a player gets benched for no apparent reason (we have seen this with PSU palyers already) will they lose $$$?

For me, the easy solution is just have the NBA and NFL run minor league programs like we already see for Hockey and baseball. Then a player can be drafted out of HS - not get any $$, but sign with the program of their choice. the people arguing for paying players already are saying that the players have no interest in college anyhow, so let them go pro. the NBA and NFL can bestow on these players big paydays if they want. there is no way there is $$$ to pay these players from the schools. many cannot fund their athletic depts now.

The NFL and NBA could fund scholarship $$$ for these minor league players to use in the future if they wanted. kind of a GI bill for players.

this would keep the ncaa around the student-athlete and the pro leagues running their minor league. the NCAA is not supposed to be a minor league. Emmert seems to not support the paying players idea.

what is wrong with a minor league and getting these players out of the schools where many of them are not prepared to be students anyhow. what bad thing happens?

They already get paid beyond tuition, and room and board.

 

[Rip_E_2_Joe_PA]

Yes, all players on the team get a flat rate say $75,000 + health insurance for the player only.

Then we deduction FIT, SIT, EIT, FICA, Unemployment Compensation Tax, Tuition, Room & Board. They can have what's left!

Gross 75,000.00

FIT (15% lowest rate) 11,500.00
SIT (PA 3.07%) 2,775.00
EIT (many are 2.0%) 1,500.00
FICA (7.5%) 5,625.00
Tuition (in state) 35,000.00 Out of state would be an additional $10,000 for tuition
Room and Meals 11,280.00
Miscellaneous cost 3,451.00 average of 1,840.00 to 5,062.00 Miscellaneous cost (travel, personal expenses, books, supplies, etc.) vary by individual and academic program of study)
TOTAL 71,131.00

Net 3,869.00
Equate to roughly 15.00 per week.

Roughly 36.00/hour for 40 hour work week.

How long did it take you to childishly put together the ingredients in that crock. laughable. You are stating the talent (a rather small population) that create billions each season should be paid a mere $75K a year. That's not close to the market place if this weren't a multilevel marketing monopoly.

 

[AWS1022]

How long did it take you to childishly put together the ingredients in that crock. laughable. You are stating the talent (a rather small population) that create billions each season should be paid a mere $75K a year. That's not close to the market place if this weren't a multilevel marketing monopoly.

$75,000 for a part time job in college isn’t enough? Wow, I wish I would have known that in college.

 

[Rip_E_2_Joe_PA]

$7,000,000 tickets for the final NCAA BB championship game alone.
not tournament ,,,, not final four.
And the NCAA alone (over 1 billion in revenue in 2017)
Does not count all the other revenue along the way. The conferences, championships.... What a farce and a scam.

 

[Rip_E_2_Joe_PA]

https://www.usatoday.com/story/spor...a-mark-emmert-oliver-luck-salaries/101829110/

No inequity here.... lol

 

[fastlax16]

$7,000,000 tickets for the final NCAA BB championship game alone.
not tournament ,,,, not final four.
And the NCAA alone (over 1 billion in revenue in 2017)
Does not count all the other revenue along the way. The conferences, championships.... What a farce and a scam.

Not that they shouldn’t receive something but no one forces them to play. The ones who think they’re good enough to go pro have options internationally. Do you pay a starter as much as the last guy off the bench? What about an all American? Should he get the same as a walk-on? Does a walk-on deserve anything? Should the pitt men’s team get paid the same as Kansas?

 

[Art]

Not that they shouldn’t receive something but no one forces them to play. The ones who think they’re good enough to go pro have options internationally. Do you pay a starter as much as the last guy off the bench? What about an all American? Should he get the same as a walk-on? Does a walk-on deserve anything? Should the pitt men’s team get paid the same as Kansas?

Has nothing to do with options available to players. The NCAA's restrictions on player compensation violate the Sherman Antitrust Act. Judge Wilken found that in O'Bannon. Unfortunately the plaintiffs' attorneys weren't prepared to make an argument for remedy that extended beyond a specific amount of money. The attorneys representing Jenkins won't repeat that mistake.

 

[fastlax16]

Has nothing to do with options available to players. The NCAA's restrictions on player compensation violate the Sherman Antitrust Act. Judge Wilken found that in O'Bannon. Unfortunately the plaintiffs' attorneys weren't prepared to make an argument for remedy that extended beyond a specific amount of money. The attorneys representing Jenkins won't repeat that mistake

And your thoughts on any of the questions I posed?

 

[blion72]

Not that they shouldn’t receive something but no one forces them to play. The ones who think they’re good enough to go pro have options internationally. Do you pay a starter as much as the last guy off the bench? What about an all American? Should he get the same as a walk-on? Does a walk-on deserve anything? Should the pitt men’s team get paid the same as Kansas?

i think that is the slippery slope of the entire argument....and that is the relative value of each player - in a pro league the difference is justified, but in this case how would that work. this also means a player might earn more by attending UCLA than say Colorado - both in the same conference, but one may provide better access to advertisers and media. during recruiting, UCLA could offer a better "package" than Colorado in that scenario. somehow that does not feel like a good direction for college sports.

 

[psute]

Let the pro teams develop their own farm systems. I have no problem if the quality of CFB goes down, it will be a more level playing field. I want to see student athletes, not athlete "students". If you don't want to "play school" go into the farm system. If the athletes want an education, play by the rules. There is a huge difference between CFB and Pro fans. We all have personal ties to our programs.

 

[Art]

And your thoughts on any of the questions I posed?

I've said this on numerous occasions previously: pay the players market(negotiated) salaries.

 

[Lyons212]

Let the pro teams develop their own farm systems. I have no problem if the quality of CFB goes down, it will be a more level playing field. I want to see student athletes, not athlete "students". If you don't want to "play school" go into the farm system. If the athletes want an education, play by the rules. There is a huge difference between CFB and Pro fans. We all have personal ties to our programs.

I agree with you. Are the college football and basketball players exploited? No doubt. OTOH, they agree to play under the current rules for a shot at the dream of a pro career and all the riches. Also, people need to keep in mind that many of these college football and basketball players have no business in college based upon their academic ability.

Let the NFL and NBA develop their own minor league systems.

 

[Art]

i think that is the slippery slope of the entire argument....and that is the relative value of each player - in a pro league the difference is justified, but in this case how would that work. this also means a player might earn more by attending UCLA than say Colorado - both in the same conference, but one may provide better access to advertisers and media. during recruiting, UCLA could offer a better "package" than Colorado in that scenario. somehow that does not feel like a good direction for college sports.

And the present "direction" of college sports is "good?" Or do you only reflect on whether players should be paid?

 

[fastlax16]

I've said this on numerous occasions previously: pay the players market(negotiated) salaries.

Is the market value different at Alabama vs Rutgers? Do you sign a 4/5 year deal or do you deal with negotiations annually based on player development? No one knew Saquon was going to turn into Saquon so obviously his market value would have been significantly lower coming out of high school. If you go with a 4 or 5 year and a player leaves early are they in breach of contract?

 

[WDLion]

Is the market value different at Alabama vs Rutgers? Do you sign a 4/5 year deal or do you deal with negotiations annually based on player development? No one knew Saquon was going to turn into Saquon so obviously his market value would have been significantly lower coming out of high school. If you go with a 4 or 5 year and a player leaves early are they in breach of contract?

Minimum wage and they punch a time card. It's a temporary part time job.

 

[MtNittany]

I've said this on numerous occasions previously: pay the players market(negotiated) salaries.

If the players become employees, then they can also be fired for non-production, correct? Or traded? How's that going to work?

 

[WDLion]

If the players become employees, then they can also be fired for non-production, correct? Or traded? How's that going to work?

Just lay them off. They can draw unemployment benefits.

 

[NittPicker]

I don't know anything about the economics of paying players. What I do know as an outside observer is the NFL and NBA would love to see college players being paid. That would mean the greedy as hell professional leagues wouldn't need to use their own money to develop their future players. Real "D" leagues? Why should they bother using their own cash?

Also, people like me who donate to help fund college athletics need to realize something else. In a roundabout way the donations benefit the professional leagues because the money helps fund the development of players. I've yet to receive a thank you note from either the NFL or NBA to acknowledge my back door financial support for their leagues.

 

[Little J]

No - you can't pay one group of athletes and not all others. Are the gymnasts, wrestlers, field hockey or soccer players any less of an athlete than a football player? Do they work less hard? The answer is a clear no. But for many of these athletes the scholarship award is already much less.

Not every athlete plays a revenue sport. The revenue sport student athletes already get far more scholarship opportunity and perks than the non-revenue sport men and women.

 

[Art]

Is the market value different at Alabama vs Rutgers? Do you sign a 4/5 year deal or do you deal with negotiations annually based on player development? No one knew Saquon was going to turn into Saquon so obviously his market value would have been significantly lower coming out of high school. If you go with a 4 or 5 year and a player leaves early are they in breach of contract?

Subject to negotiation. Different schools will offer different combinations of years/money/guaranteed money/incentives for a player coming out of high school. Contract could also contain buyouts for each side.