I saw this posted on elsewhere and didn't see it posted here. Askren is no light weight in the sport, so I thought I would link his video since stalling is a huge topic.
Ben Askren
Ben Askren
SIAP: Ben Askren calls out Iowa Stalling!
- Thread starter lionlover
- Start date
Hehe Amalone. The thing is that this is nothing that we haven't been talking about on HR for awhile now...Iowa's lack of shots. But then again, that's the state of college wrestling right now. Watch some older matches...A good one is Jim Gibbons vs Randy Lewis. You would never see two top guys going at it like that anymore. Flo is getting a lot of flack for their perceived anti Iowa bias but I'm not one of them. Here was my reply to Christian Pyles on HR:
"CP...thanks for coming in and giving us your POV. Flo does do a lot of Iowa stuff but one could argue that you have to based on the market.
I don't think there is an anti Iowa bias at Flo. I do not think Willie is a Dbag. Willie, feel free to procreate. I also do not have a problem with you posting Ben's rant. It makes for good copy and debate. The only problem I really see is for Flo. I'd imagine that Flo has a slim profit margin covering a niche sport and pissing off a sizable contingent of them could be bad for business. I do see some Shock Jock type moves at Flo but its all good IMO. My fellow Hawk fans can feel how they want...As an Arizona basketball fan, once you have to put up with Bill Walton as a commentator, Willie ain't too bad. Perspective.
It's funny that the same people who harp on the Brands antics as somehow "unsporting" (he said in his pass the Grey Poupon voice) would probably jump on Ben's rant and yell....FACT! and applaud Flo for posting it. If you hate Iowa, you'll agree...and vice versa. I think that Ben's opinion is kinda obvious. The only wrestler's that can be super aggressive these days are guys that would dominate in any era...David Taylor, Ruth, Metcalf...and yes, Ben. Kids are scared to take chances because they know that if they give up a TD, the other guy will be allowed to stall the rest of the match out. Our guys play this game too and its a damn shame for the sport."
When it used to be fun
"CP...thanks for coming in and giving us your POV. Flo does do a lot of Iowa stuff but one could argue that you have to based on the market.
I don't think there is an anti Iowa bias at Flo. I do not think Willie is a Dbag. Willie, feel free to procreate. I also do not have a problem with you posting Ben's rant. It makes for good copy and debate. The only problem I really see is for Flo. I'd imagine that Flo has a slim profit margin covering a niche sport and pissing off a sizable contingent of them could be bad for business. I do see some Shock Jock type moves at Flo but its all good IMO. My fellow Hawk fans can feel how they want...As an Arizona basketball fan, once you have to put up with Bill Walton as a commentator, Willie ain't too bad. Perspective.
It's funny that the same people who harp on the Brands antics as somehow "unsporting" (he said in his pass the Grey Poupon voice) would probably jump on Ben's rant and yell....FACT! and applaud Flo for posting it. If you hate Iowa, you'll agree...and vice versa. I think that Ben's opinion is kinda obvious. The only wrestler's that can be super aggressive these days are guys that would dominate in any era...David Taylor, Ruth, Metcalf...and yes, Ben. Kids are scared to take chances because they know that if they give up a TD, the other guy will be allowed to stall the rest of the match out. Our guys play this game too and its a damn shame for the sport."
When it used to be fun
Chief... Excellent retort to Flo. And your analysis where you added at the end of course is spot on. : Kids
are scared to take chances because they know that if they give up a TD, the other guy will be allowed to stall the rest of the match out. Our guys play this game too and its a damn shame for the sport."
We went back and forth years ago on the Iowa style and it's lack of offensive initiative. I know Iowa's style since that time hasn't remotely changed. There's nothing that is separating Iowa from the Missouri's, Ohio State, the OSU's or Minnesota. I haven't seen that kind of wrestler, a Randy Lewis type at Iowa in the recent years and that was an incredible match with unbelievable counters, switches, attempted throws and non-stop aggression on Randy Lewis's part. If Iowa had half a team, a third of a team with such aggression, we wouldn't have had this debate years ago or now today. Iowa has become stagnant... especially on it's feet and I think the collective results from the past four years are clear indications of Iowa lack of offensive initiative.... especially at the National Tournament.
The only wrestler I think I enjoyed watching from Iowa the past few years is Tony Ramos. Loved his relentless style and his fearlessness on the mat. His stare made for good theater also.
But I will share a video below of what offense can be today in collegiate wrestling... and what Penn State fans enjoyed so tremendously much about David Taylor. And I do know you compliment and recognize the offensive nature of both DT and Ed Ruth. But you can add in Nico Megaludis, Zain Retherford... and the future looks bright with the scoring machine that is Jason Nolf and Bo Nickal. Penn State clearly recruits offensive minded kids that are in the mold of both Taylor and Ruth. I just rarely see Tom Brands recruiting similar kids. It's quite evident by watching Iowa matches. At the Penn State dual, Thomas Gilman went into a shell and it almost cost him against Jordan Conaway. Against, Nico... the result would have been different. Cory Clark tried to hold on for the win... Jimmie Gulibon gets the late td and puts Clark to his back. Ditto for Nick Moore at 165. Ditto for Mike Evans against Matt Brown on the aggression front. At full strength (Penn State)... I'll let that for pondering what the end result most likely would have been. But I'll help the pondering crowd: Nico isn't losing to Thomas Gilman and Josh Dwieza isn't remotely staying with Zain Retherford.
As if relates to today. David Taylor showed us the levels by which offensive wrestling can completely open up a match. Then wrestling takes on an art form it should be. Don't miss the pin of Robert Kokesh at Nationals, or the dismantling of Conrad Polz who didn't come to wrestle... or the tech fall of Andrew Howe or who could forget the cradle of world champ, Jordan Burroughs. And then there was Ed Ruth.
This post was edited on 3/4 8:59 AM by amalone
It can be fun today...
are scared to take chances because they know that if they give up a TD, the other guy will be allowed to stall the rest of the match out. Our guys play this game too and its a damn shame for the sport."
We went back and forth years ago on the Iowa style and it's lack of offensive initiative. I know Iowa's style since that time hasn't remotely changed. There's nothing that is separating Iowa from the Missouri's, Ohio State, the OSU's or Minnesota. I haven't seen that kind of wrestler, a Randy Lewis type at Iowa in the recent years and that was an incredible match with unbelievable counters, switches, attempted throws and non-stop aggression on Randy Lewis's part. If Iowa had half a team, a third of a team with such aggression, we wouldn't have had this debate years ago or now today. Iowa has become stagnant... especially on it's feet and I think the collective results from the past four years are clear indications of Iowa lack of offensive initiative.... especially at the National Tournament.
The only wrestler I think I enjoyed watching from Iowa the past few years is Tony Ramos. Loved his relentless style and his fearlessness on the mat. His stare made for good theater also.
But I will share a video below of what offense can be today in collegiate wrestling... and what Penn State fans enjoyed so tremendously much about David Taylor. And I do know you compliment and recognize the offensive nature of both DT and Ed Ruth. But you can add in Nico Megaludis, Zain Retherford... and the future looks bright with the scoring machine that is Jason Nolf and Bo Nickal. Penn State clearly recruits offensive minded kids that are in the mold of both Taylor and Ruth. I just rarely see Tom Brands recruiting similar kids. It's quite evident by watching Iowa matches. At the Penn State dual, Thomas Gilman went into a shell and it almost cost him against Jordan Conaway. Against, Nico... the result would have been different. Cory Clark tried to hold on for the win... Jimmie Gulibon gets the late td and puts Clark to his back. Ditto for Nick Moore at 165. Ditto for Mike Evans against Matt Brown on the aggression front. At full strength (Penn State)... I'll let that for pondering what the end result most likely would have been. But I'll help the pondering crowd: Nico isn't losing to Thomas Gilman and Josh Dwieza isn't remotely staying with Zain Retherford.
As if relates to today. David Taylor showed us the levels by which offensive wrestling can completely open up a match. Then wrestling takes on an art form it should be. Don't miss the pin of Robert Kokesh at Nationals, or the dismantling of Conrad Polz who didn't come to wrestle... or the tech fall of Andrew Howe or who could forget the cradle of world champ, Jordan Burroughs. And then there was Ed Ruth.
This post was edited on 3/4 8:59 AM by amalone
It can be fun today...
That's the thing...how offensive minded was David Taylor against someone his own level...like Kyle Dake (see the link)? In the first period of a match that didn't even count, neither took a shot. Out of all of three of their matches, a total of three TDs. Count me in as a Taylor fanboy but he looked a lot like an Iowa guy against Dake, especially in the All Star match.
As for Cory Clark, he shot on Guilbon when he could have stalled the last 16 secs out (he had riding time I believe). Clark...was the one who did the Iowa Style thing and kept on shooting...JG made him pay. Think Clark will try that again? Maybe so because Clark is pretty aggressive.
Thomas Gilman has lost to Nico once I believe...Gilman has beaten Delgado and Garrett, he has the ability to beat Nico. I disagree that Nico over Gilman is a give-me.
This isn't an Iowa problem...it is a college wrestling problem. There is a reason why Dylan Ness is one of the most popular wrestlers out there. It's because he takes chances and is fun to watch...always going for the pin. Taylor and Ruth were fun to watch because they were so much more dominant than most of the guys they wrestled. We were watching greatness. Same with Streibler. However, they are far and few between. Instead, the rule in our sport is where a guy like Delgado is awarded with two national titles for essentially being able to scramble and dive at legs and hold them to a stalemate.
Look at last years Champs:
Delgado (Don't have to argue this one)
Ramos (Even Ramos said he wrestled stiff and defensively)
Streibler
TShirt (Not the most exciting guy)
Dierenger (The exciting guy lost)
Taylor
Perry (Don't have to argue this one on here, hehe)
Ruth
Cox (Don't think he took a shot the whole match)
Gwiz (Finally, a heavy a guy who moves is finally reward)
Take out the three dominant guys, and we are left with Gwiz and Ringer who we can say wrestled somewhat aggressively.
Dake vs Taylor
As for Cory Clark, he shot on Guilbon when he could have stalled the last 16 secs out (he had riding time I believe). Clark...was the one who did the Iowa Style thing and kept on shooting...JG made him pay. Think Clark will try that again? Maybe so because Clark is pretty aggressive.
Thomas Gilman has lost to Nico once I believe...Gilman has beaten Delgado and Garrett, he has the ability to beat Nico. I disagree that Nico over Gilman is a give-me.
This isn't an Iowa problem...it is a college wrestling problem. There is a reason why Dylan Ness is one of the most popular wrestlers out there. It's because he takes chances and is fun to watch...always going for the pin. Taylor and Ruth were fun to watch because they were so much more dominant than most of the guys they wrestled. We were watching greatness. Same with Streibler. However, they are far and few between. Instead, the rule in our sport is where a guy like Delgado is awarded with two national titles for essentially being able to scramble and dive at legs and hold them to a stalemate.
Look at last years Champs:
Delgado (Don't have to argue this one)
Ramos (Even Ramos said he wrestled stiff and defensively)
Streibler
TShirt (Not the most exciting guy)
Dierenger (The exciting guy lost)
Taylor
Perry (Don't have to argue this one on here, hehe)
Ruth
Cox (Don't think he took a shot the whole match)
Gwiz (Finally, a heavy a guy who moves is finally reward)
Take out the three dominant guys, and we are left with Gwiz and Ringer who we can say wrestled somewhat aggressively.
Dake vs Taylor
I agree with Chief. The problem is sport-wide and not team specific. We have had our share of reluctant warriors even under Cael. The risk reward equation is out of sync. It keeps coming back to a lack of stalling calls in all positions.
If one listens to all of the coaches when they are interviewed after matches the all say "we need to be more aggressive and score more points." That includes Smith, Brands, and Robinson. Brands constantly talks about needing bonus points from his wrestlers.
At PSU we would love to see more offense from Jimmy Gulibon, Morgan McIntosh, and Jimmy Lawson because they have such great offensive capability. But it just doesn't happen.
Referees have a similar problem. The first official to start calling stalling quickly will likely come under heavy fire, especially if the calls are against the home team. While the positive result would be more action the negative is that the official's impact on the result of a match will be increased - and thus the controversy he will be exposed to.
So the bottom line is that in the upcoming tournaments there will continue to be a disincentive for the officials to call stalling and therefore a disincentive for wrestlers to aggressively pursue offense.
If one listens to all of the coaches when they are interviewed after matches the all say "we need to be more aggressive and score more points." That includes Smith, Brands, and Robinson. Brands constantly talks about needing bonus points from his wrestlers.
At PSU we would love to see more offense from Jimmy Gulibon, Morgan McIntosh, and Jimmy Lawson because they have such great offensive capability. But it just doesn't happen.
Referees have a similar problem. The first official to start calling stalling quickly will likely come under heavy fire, especially if the calls are against the home team. While the positive result would be more action the negative is that the official's impact on the result of a match will be increased - and thus the controversy he will be exposed to.
So the bottom line is that in the upcoming tournaments there will continue to be a disincentive for the officials to call stalling and therefore a disincentive for wrestlers to aggressively pursue offense.
These were two examples, though of good wrestling AFTER the stall was called, forcing the action. Those two finals took on great flavor. I was not a fan of Perry, but I would say this...... His TD of Howe was a thing of beauty, and all of his stalling for the past three years basically robbed us from seeing what he could really do on a mat. No greatness to be seen. Just inaction.
If this all relates to stalling, and it really does.....the rules were more lenient in 2000 than they are today, and stalling was called more. We now have more rules and it's called less, and there is less action.
The bottom line remains.....if it would get called as it is written already, we would have action. Referees have to quit being pansies with stalling. If they warn a guy at the beginning of a period, they should expect a conformational change in that wrestlers wrestling from THAT moment. It is of no value to wait another 60 seconds to see what will happen. Whistle again in 20.
I even watched a kid recently fire off no less than 15 shots to an opponents retreating and zero. I spoke with the ref afterwards since I was the guy wondering aloud why there wasn't even one warning. His answer: "really? Your guy connected on 5 TD's and won the match." I responded "where in the rule book does it say if the other guy is scoring you don't have to call stalling?" His response "nowhere."
Point is..., way too many refs....even high quality refs.....refuse to force action. If they followed the rulebook, it would take about 4 weeks or less for all teams to figure out what's going on and we would start getting shots......
I think they should have a preseason meeting of refs, head coaches and maybe a team captain from each team meet. They culd lay out that they are going to vigorously enforce stalling and give instances. Caches and captains could way in on their thoughts and take it back to their respective teams. Then there should be little shock value resulting as the season gets under way.
Gilman should have been called for stalling against JC this year - he did absolutely nothing in the 3rd period, no call. Doubly absurd when he intentionally went OB to avoid being taken down late in the match in clear violation of the new rule....still no call. Evans should have been nailed for multiple stall calls against Brown, but was never called for even one. Other examples in the PSU-Iowa match where the inconsistent officiating actually saw multiple stall calls on PSU wrestlers and zero on Iowa wrestlers despite CLEAR AND OBVIOUS stalling especially late in bouts by fading Iowa wrestlers clinging to a tenuous lead.
Originally posted by Azchief32:
That's the thing...how offensive minded was David Taylor against someone his own level...like Kyle Dake (see the link)? In the first period of a match that didn't even count, neither took a shot. Out of all of three of their matches, a total of three TDs. Count me in as a Taylor fanboy but he looked a lot like an Iowa guy against Dake, especially in the All Star match.
Many good wrestlers, like your National Champ, Derek St. John were only able to eek out a point against Kyle Dake.
Ummm... David Taylor never lost to DSJ, Mike Evans, Nick Moore and put all of them on their back. Never came close to losing to any Iowa wrestler... even a National Champ.
As for Cory Clark, he shot on Guilbon when he could have stalled the last 16 secs out (he had riding time I believe). Clark...was the one who did the Iowa Style thing and kept on shooting...JG made him pay. Think Clark will try that again? Maybe so because Clark is pretty aggressive.
Thomas Gilman has lost to Nico once I believe...Gilman has beaten Delgado and Garrett, he has the ability to beat Nico. I disagree that Nico over Gilman is a give-me.
This isn't an Iowa problem...it is a college wrestling problem. There is a reason why Dylan Ness is one of the most popular wrestlers out there. It's because he takes chances and is fun to watch...always going for the pin. Taylor and Ruth were fun to watch because they were so much more dominant than most of the guys they wrestled. We were watching greatness. Same with Streibler. However, they are far and few between. Instead, the rule in our sport is where a guy like Delgado is awarded with two national titles for essentially being able to scramble and dive at legs and hold them to a stalemate.
Look at last years Champs:
Delgado (Don't have to argue this one) Horrible to watch wrestle. Your pt well taken & acknowledged.
Ramos (Even Ramos said he wrestled stiff and defensively) He did, came out on top. But didn't show his firepower.
Streibler On an elite level. Exciting even in defeat... oh... he won that final against Oliver. (My bad.)
TShirt (Not the most exciting guy) Makes paint dry on walls in one's mind in ugly purple.
Dierenger (The exciting guy lost) Wrestled a smart match & was the better wrestler
Taylor Won the Hodge.... again. Pinned everyone through the quarters.
Perry (Don't have to argue this one on here, hehe) Didn't he get pinned by Mike Evans? Hahaha
Ruth Tayloresque
Cox (Don't think he took a shot the whole match) Paint drying Part II
Gwiz (Finally, a heavy a guy who moves is finally reward) Loved that he moved and didn't play into TN's
stall game.
Take out the three dominant guys, and we are left with Gwiz and Ringer who we can say wrestled somewhat aggressively. True that.
Collegiate wrestling refs need to ring up wrestlers who continue to play the stall game. Inactivity and pushing each other around a mat without shooting isn't wrestling. I don't recall David Taylor NOT shooting or Ed Ruth... NOT shooting. It's ridiculous to have to teach collegiate wrestlers to shoot to
win a match.
Amalone...my point is that Kyle Dake and DT are on another level then any Iowa wrestler they ever faced. No need to recite DT's dominance against us, I acknowledge that. Against each other in those three matches, neither were aggressive....when picking on someone the same size so to speak. The three TDs in three matches speaks volumes. So given an equal opponent, even the great ones stall or do not shoot in today's environment. In the all star match, DT pushed Dake a lot, but didn't shoot. Both should have been hit for stalling, especially Dake.
Like John mentioned above, PSU guys do not get after it against evenly matched opponents. When they do (or Iowa does) good things happen. Gilman had a string of 7 or 8 matches where he wrestled like a Hawk. Aggressive chain wrestling. He was tearing guys apart. Against PSU, he reverted and has wrestled that way since...even against Garret who he beat. One could use MM's match against Schiller if I recall correctly. He wrestled like a guy that could be at the top of the podium but can he do that with consistency? Against Cox, if he gives up a TD, then it's pretty much over because nobody calls stalling and would make Cox wrestle.
Like John mentioned above, PSU guys do not get after it against evenly matched opponents. When they do (or Iowa does) good things happen. Gilman had a string of 7 or 8 matches where he wrestled like a Hawk. Aggressive chain wrestling. He was tearing guys apart. Against PSU, he reverted and has wrestled that way since...even against Garret who he beat. One could use MM's match against Schiller if I recall correctly. He wrestled like a guy that could be at the top of the podium but can he do that with consistency? Against Cox, if he gives up a TD, then it's pretty much over because nobody calls stalling and would make Cox wrestle.
On all points I agree Chief.
You said you had a man crush on David Taylor and then went about trying to "humanize" him with the Dake video.
Kyle Dake wasn't as technically sound as David Taylor, but was a lot stronger than David... hence David was unable
to get out from the bottom position.
Good point on Morgan McIntosh and you can include Jimmy Lawson. Both can wrestle with any top end talent....
but at what point does Morgan McIntosh rely on his obvious technical superiority over most of the 197lbers in the
country. It's all between the ears. Morgan beat a #1 Schiller and then handled Nathan Burak very handily as I
thought at one juncture of the match MM would major him. MM is that good... but when passive... is a fraction
on what his talent level truly consists of. Same can be said of Jimmie Gulibon. Sky's the limit when Jimmie goes on
offensive. Cael for weeks has begged Jimmie Lawson to shoot. Be the aggressive Jimmy Lawson that can hit
doubles on the nations best... he's that quick... but he chooses to remain flat-footed and try to engage from too
far out.
As I see it... it's a two horse race with Missouri and Iowa for the National Championship... but if Iowa wrestles to
form as they have at Nationals the past four years... count them out on day three. They have no clear cut National
Titlist and maybe it's that parity in college wrestling this year that gets them a National Title. We shall see.
Watch the first period...DT pushed Dake a lot but there were no real shots. The real action started with 15 seconds left in the second...Dake shot, Taylor reshot...Dake scrambled out.
This is my point. I think we all can agree that DT is perhaps one of the best offensive guys in recent memory. The same could be said for Kyle Dake defensively. The defensive/counter guy won all three matches and four national titles. This point is not lost on today's wrestler's.
I'll see your Chris Perry's two and raise you Kyle Dake's four. I'm an Iowa guy here lauding DT (and Ruth too). Pretty much every other Iowa guy is the same. This should tell you something not only about him, but how we feel about the sport. But David Taylor talent doesn't fall off the truck too often and he has graduated (thank the wrestling Gables). Like I pointed out in last year's finals, the defensive guys have taken over.
I don't think Penn State will allow the defensive style to win over. Jason Nolf at 157 is a clone of DT.
Zain Retherford will bring it next year. His skill set in beating Logan Steiber wasn't a fluke. I know Logan is
better than Zain 9 times out of ten... but every other guy at 141 would be housed by Steiber. Than you have
Bo Nickal coming in who will throw the kitchen sink at you ala Dylan Ness, but Bo is taller and has incredible
leverage.
Chief... I commended Iowa on having a team that on paper looks leap years ahead of the Iowa teams the past
four years. But when they wrestled teams on their level as you like to say... Penn State... and without a doubt
Missouri. They went into a shell. It will be up to Tom Brands to light fires under some guys. Cael lives for post
season. Next year, certainly, we can debate the defensive wrestler style winning out... as hopefully Nico, Zain,
Jason Nolf, Bo Nickal and Nick Nevills (who reminds me of Gwiz) highly discount that. I know we'll have that
tasteful debate.
How do you see Iowa next year?
I prefer to live in the present. It's nice to have things to look forward to however. So if you have already moved on to next year, that's your choice. Too bad about them Alton studs. You might still be talking about this year if you had a couple of healthy animals in your mid weights
If you're living in the present. You're coming off a dual loss to Missouri that would worsen my outlook for a
redemption for the past four years of Penn State cleaning your clock. The National Tournament has not looked
pretty for the Hawks the last four years. Are you looking for a better than fourth finish this year?
And other than maybe Brandon Sorenson, who will produce pts for the Hawks at middle weight at Nationals? Even
that isn't a given with his lack of experience on such a big stage. Josh Dziewa and Mike Kelly? You have healthy
guys at the middle weights.... but animals? They're definitely NOT WildTurks.
I would have a lot of questions with your team come tournament time that you should be addressing on HR.
Oh Amalone you goof ball. I'm glad to see you haven't changed much. If you want to bring up the past then go ahead but you better not go past 4 years. It gets ugly for you. What's the all time series between the 2 schools?
I for one never said Iowa would win the national championship this year. They just happend to win all their duals except against Mizzou of course. The media had to put someone at number 1 all year and Iowa was the team to beat. I think most will agree that Ohio State and Minny were the preseason favorites this year. My Hawks had a great dual season and I am proud of them. I never expected Sorenson/Kelly/Meyer/Brooks/Burak(knee worries) to win as much as they did.
I will cheer for my Hawks always but I wouldn't be surprised to see OSU/Minny win the Big tens/nationals. Throw Mizzou in at NCAA's. It's gonna be close!
I for one never said Iowa would win the national championship this year. They just happend to win all their duals except against Mizzou of course. The media had to put someone at number 1 all year and Iowa was the team to beat. I think most will agree that Ohio State and Minny were the preseason favorites this year. My Hawks had a great dual season and I am proud of them. I never expected Sorenson/Kelly/Meyer/Brooks/Burak(knee worries) to win as much as they did.
I will cheer for my Hawks always but I wouldn't be surprised to see OSU/Minny win the Big tens/nationals. Throw Mizzou in at NCAA's. It's gonna be close!
Don't sleep on Beitz. He can be sneaky good, just ask Tshirts. Some of the PSU faithful may be licking their chops thinking about next year, but I think the boys and blue have the firepower to make B1Gs and NCAAs interesting.
Nice post. I watched the finals and Missouri stalled just as much as Iowa. There is to much stalling in wrestling and the officials are the main problem.
Iowa is going to be pretty good with the only real hole being Big Bob leaving considering the inconsistency of Nick Moore and Jeva.
125-Gilman
133-Clark
141-Gross/Logan Ryan/Carton
149-Sorensen
157-Grothus/Cooper
165-Paddock/Cooper (according to rumors)
174-Alex Meyer...Weight clears out a lot. He is AA and possibly a contender
184-Brooks
197-Burak
HWY-Stoll
We are going to need a Sorensen like rise out of a few guys plus for Grothus to be in the weight room and an IV of protein shakes. I think whoever emerges at 141 is going to be a gamer. We are still going to be a tough out and might surprise a few people. Still have the potential for seven AAs
Meanwhile JC gets absolutely screwed by an official using a BS stall call to send his semi bout into OT.... It is a joke how inconsistently "stalling" is called in this bush conference and how favorably it is called / not called in regards to Iowa (and the opposite for PSU).
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