Long thread on themat.com as to whether or not this was a legal move. Most agree that it was. Any officials here?
I Jordan takes down B Jordan.
I Jordan takes down B Jordan.
Slow motion vid of I Jordan's super slick takedown - link
- Thread starter mn78psu83
- Start date
What are they claiming that makes it illegal? Are they claiming he kicked the opponent?
Some claimed that it was an illegal cut back - "No. 66-illegal leg block (cut back). Defensive wrestlers are not allowed to use their leg in a whip-like fashion to take their opponent back to the mat."[/I]
Illustrated here on WR-89/p. 92 of the NCAA Wresting Rule Book.
The photo in the rule book looks like a flying scissors, which is illegal in judo and BJJ for sure. It's legal and a go to move in Russian Sambo though. Can really tear up someone's knee. When I last trained I had a young guy who demonstrated it on me. I was really uncomfortable when he executed it. I didn't get injured, but injury didn't seem far away. I was 47 and was pretty pleased with my health, so I decided not to mess around with that demo again. When your feet are planted firmly on the ground the torque is dangerous.
Here is the whole thread:
Was Z. Jordan's cutback legal?
I agree with those who say it was legal. He did not whip his leg to the knee. It was more of a foot sweep.
This post was edited on 3/9 9:16 PM by mn78psu83
Some claimed that it was an illegal cut back - "No. 66-illegal leg block (cut back). Defensive wrestlers are not allowed to use their leg in a whip-like fashion to take their opponent back to the mat."[/I]
Illustrated here on WR-89/p. 92 of the NCAA Wresting Rule Book.
The photo in the rule book looks like a flying scissors, which is illegal in judo and BJJ for sure. It's legal and a go to move in Russian Sambo though. Can really tear up someone's knee. When I last trained I had a young guy who demonstrated it on me. I was really uncomfortable when he executed it. I didn't get injured, but injury didn't seem far away. I was 47 and was pretty pleased with my health, so I decided not to mess around with that demo again. When your feet are planted firmly on the ground the torque is dangerous.
Here is the whole thread:
Was Z. Jordan's cutback legal?
I agree with those who say it was legal. He did not whip his leg to the knee. It was more of a foot sweep.
This post was edited on 3/9 9:16 PM by mn78psu83
since you asked ...
was it legal? you could make an argument for yes and for no.
Case for it being legal:
Sec. 5.8 of the 2014-15 College Rules and Interpretations addresses Illegal Holds. Included in this is are a few specified moves, such as:
"leg cut back"
later in the rules it shows illustrations for a legal Leg Block and an Illegal Leg Block (Cut Back). The text for the Legal Leg Block illustration reads:
"Defensive wrestlers may use their arm or hand to block the leg and then sit back to take the opponent to the mat."
The text for the Illegal Leg Block (Cut Block) reads:
"Defensive wrestlers are not allowed to use their leg in a whip-like fashion to take their opponent back to the mat.
While IJo was in a defensive position at the start of the process that resulted in BoJo being taken to the mat, and IJo getting a TD, he didn't use his leg in a whip-like fashion to take BoJo to the mat. As such, IJo didn't violate the leg cut back rule. There is no other move that is specified in the rule book as illegal that is identical to what IJo did, so you couldn't stop the match for it being an illegal move.
Case for it being illegal:
Sec. 2.11 of the 2014-15 College Rules and Interpretations addresses the subject of Potentially Dangerous. It reads:
"Any hold that forces a limb to the limit of the normal range of motion, and other holds or situations that may cause injury, are potentially dangerous and may be stopped by the referee. When "potentially dangerous" is called, no penalty points shall be awarded. The match is resumed in the neutral or stating position on the mat as determined by the position held at the time the match was stopped."
IJo's action with his leg did cause a lot of stress on BoJo's ankle and his knee. While IJo's action happened pretty quickly, the ref would have been justified in stopping the match for potentially dangerous, and starting the cousins back on their feet.
Would I have allowed the move? Almost certainly so. I've never seen IJo's move in a match, and I doubt most refs have seen it. When dealing with potentially dangerous situations, refs are almost always dealing with situations that they have previously encountered, and that are specified in the Rules and Interpretations (for college refs; the NFHS rule book for high school and youth folkstyle), so they have a pretty good sense (and experience) in knowing what to allow and when to stop the match.
Tom
was it legal? you could make an argument for yes and for no.
Case for it being legal:
Sec. 5.8 of the 2014-15 College Rules and Interpretations addresses Illegal Holds. Included in this is are a few specified moves, such as:
"leg cut back"
later in the rules it shows illustrations for a legal Leg Block and an Illegal Leg Block (Cut Back). The text for the Legal Leg Block illustration reads:
"Defensive wrestlers may use their arm or hand to block the leg and then sit back to take the opponent to the mat."
The text for the Illegal Leg Block (Cut Block) reads:
"Defensive wrestlers are not allowed to use their leg in a whip-like fashion to take their opponent back to the mat.
While IJo was in a defensive position at the start of the process that resulted in BoJo being taken to the mat, and IJo getting a TD, he didn't use his leg in a whip-like fashion to take BoJo to the mat. As such, IJo didn't violate the leg cut back rule. There is no other move that is specified in the rule book as illegal that is identical to what IJo did, so you couldn't stop the match for it being an illegal move.
Case for it being illegal:
Sec. 2.11 of the 2014-15 College Rules and Interpretations addresses the subject of Potentially Dangerous. It reads:
"Any hold that forces a limb to the limit of the normal range of motion, and other holds or situations that may cause injury, are potentially dangerous and may be stopped by the referee. When "potentially dangerous" is called, no penalty points shall be awarded. The match is resumed in the neutral or stating position on the mat as determined by the position held at the time the match was stopped."
IJo's action with his leg did cause a lot of stress on BoJo's ankle and his knee. While IJo's action happened pretty quickly, the ref would have been justified in stopping the match for potentially dangerous, and starting the cousins back on their feet.
Would I have allowed the move? Almost certainly so. I've never seen IJo's move in a match, and I doubt most refs have seen it. When dealing with potentially dangerous situations, refs are almost always dealing with situations that they have previously encountered, and that are specified in the Rules and Interpretations (for college refs; the NFHS rule book for high school and youth folkstyle), so they have a pretty good sense (and experience) in knowing what to allow and when to stop the match.
Tom
Re: since you asked ...
Well done, Tom. I saw nothing that put the wrestler at risk, therefore potentially dangerous could not be called.
