"Snap infraction"

[NoBareFeet]

Not sure if this has been discussed. In the game on Saturday, Ohio State was called for a snap infraction when the center snapped the ball when no one else was ready. Of course, Penn State recovered the ball, but didn't get to keep it because of the dead ball penalty.

Now, I've seen a snap infraction called before. It is typically called when the center moves the ball before actually snapping the ball to the QB. I have never seen it called when the ball is actually snapped.

My question is that if the ball was snapped, what made this a snap infraction? There is no rule that the QB or anyone else has to be ready for the snap. If the ball is snapped, the play has begun! So why in the hell was this a dead ball penalty? Why didn't Penn State get to keep the ball?

My guess is that the officials screwed up and blew the whistle after the snap because the play looked awkward, kind of like a false start. But there was no false start. The ball was snapped. They called this "snap infraction" to cover up their screw up. Should have been Penn State's ball.

 

[dailybuck777]

As an Ohio State fan, I tend to agree that it was a bad call. On the other hand, with about a minute and a half left, one of your offensive lineman, out in the open, tackled in Ohio State defensive player and somehow the refs missed the call. Probably gave PSU three points there because it would have been difficult for PSU to get in field goal range with a 15 yd penalty.

Don't deny that the botched snap was a bigger mistake.

 

[JWB389]

As an Ohio State fan, I tend to agree that it was a bad call. On the other hand, with about a minute and a half left, one of your offensive lineman, out in the open, tackled in Ohio State defensive player and somehow the refs missed the call. Probably gave PSU three points there because it would have been difficult for PSU to get in field goal range with a 15 yd penalty.

Don't deny that the botched snap was a bigger mistake.

Holding calls are missed on nearly every play in the BIG. That's why your OL wore white gloves.

 

[dailybuck777]

Holding calls are missed on nearly every play in the BIG. That's why your OL wore white gloves.

I understand that a lot of people feel that holding is much called as much as it should be. However, that tackle was an obvious hold in plain sight that should be called every time and I don't think that the referees would defend the call in any instance.

 

[Petch]

As an Ohio State fan, I tend to agree that it was a bad call. On the other hand, with about a minute and a half left, one of your offensive lineman, out in the open, tackled in Ohio State defensive player and somehow the refs missed the call. Probably gave PSU three points there because it would have been difficult for PSU to get in field goal range with a 15 yd penalty.

Don't deny that the botched snap was a bigger mistake.

Daily…don’t you know? There is no holding in the BIG. Can someone please post the Mauti mauling near the EZ in 2014? That couldn’t have been more out in the open.

 

[JWB389]

I understand that a lot of people feel that holding is much called as much as it should be. However, that tackle was an obvious hold in plain sight that should be called every time and I don't think that the referees would defend the call in any instance.

Holding is holding. Either change the rule or call it every time.

First, no question it was holding, but the replay angle made it look less obvious than the announcers that were crying for it to be called let on. It looked to me like they got tangled up as the OSU DL spun. The PSU OL looked like he pulled off then, likely too late to avoid a true "hold" by the book, but it appeared to me that the OL was pulling away.

 

[PSUeng]

I understand that a lot of people feel that holding is much called as much as it should be. However, that tackle was an obvious hold in plain sight that should be called every time and I don't think that the referees would defend the call in any instance.

I suggest you watch the PSU vs Illinois game if you want to see missed holding calls. I think 17 was tackled about 5 times

 

[mcruny42]

I understand that a lot of people feel that holding is much called as much as it should be. However, that tackle was an obvious hold in plain sight that should be called every time and I don't think that the referees would defend the call in any instance.

What about the 9 yard 'catch' that hit the ground? Having 2nd and 1 opens up all kinds of play call options whereas 2nd and 10 is completely different. So I would say that impacted OSU's ability to score as much, if not more than a missed holding call. Bottom line is the snap vs holding are not really an apples to apples comparison bc everyone can point to 10+ holds every game for each team that do not get called, the snap was a much more egregious miss

 

[JWB389]

What about the 9 yard 'catch' that hit the ground? Having 2nd and 1 opens up all kinds of play call options whereas 2nd and 10 is completely different. So I would say that impacted OSU's ability to score as much, if not more than a missed holding call. Bottom line is the snap vs holding are not really an apples to apples comparison bc everyone can point to 10+ holds every game for each team that do not get called, the snap was a much more egregious miss

Surprised they never reviewed that....well, no I'm not.

Another poorly officiated game though. I thought we got away with some missed PI calls. We are very "handsy" in the D backfield. It's strange what they flag and what they don't.

 

[KnightWhoSaysNit]

We got away with Wallace being downfield on our first touchdown too.

 

[PSJimbo]

Back to the OP's point, the "snap infraction" call was totally made up at that moment in time. You can see it on the ref's face for a couple moments when it occurred. He didn't know what to call. He realized the whistle should never had been blown and he was on the hook to call something so he blurted out, "snap infraction". It made me think of that insurance commercial where the schtick is don't become your parents. I'm talking about the part of the commercial where the guy blurts out, "hair is blue!".

 

[Achowalogan]

I understand that a lot of people feel that holding is much called as much as it should be. However, that tackle was an obvious hold in plain sight that should be called every time and I don't think that the referees would defend the call in any instance.

How do you explain most of the team wearing red gloves, and the offensive line wearing white gloves?

-We didn't order enough red gloves...
or
-We were trying to disguise certain behaviors (Success with Honor is a foreign concept)

 

[dailybuck777]

How do you explain most of the team wearing red gloves, and the offensive line wearing white gloves?

If a rule is difficult to enforce and erratically applied, I don't see any reason not to minimize the chances that it will be applied against your team. Bad calls are part of football and teams do whatever they can to take advantage of bad calls once they are made -- such as, for instance, trying quick snaps. Also, have you ever seen a receiver walk over to a ref and say, I really dropped the ball ref -- you made a mistake calling it a catch.

Several additional missed holding calls highlighted here: https://www.dispatch.com/story/spor...s-much/6234236001/?utm_campaign=snd-autopilot I am sure PSU reporter could find more OSU holds that weren't called.

 

[Achowalogan]

Nothing smart about intentionally trying to subvert the rules of the game If you need to deliberately cheat to so , why bother playing...you disrespect the game...

Actually a pretty smart idea. No reason PSU shouldn't do the same.

If a rule is difficult to enforce and erratically applied, I don't see any reason not to minimize the chances that it will be applied against your team. Bad calls are part of football and teams do whatever they can to take advantage of bad calls once they are made -- such as, for instance, trying quick snaps. Also, have you ever seen a receiver walk over to a ref and say, I really dropped the ball ref -- you made a mistake calling it a catch.

Several additional missed holding calls highlighted here: https://www.dispatch.com/story/spor...s-much/6234236001/?utm_campaign=snd-autopilot I am sure PSU reporter could find more OSU holds that weren't called.

There is always an explanation for failure of character....

 

[wilbury]

We got away with Wallace being downfield on our first touchdown too.

Maybe. The rule is within 3 yards BEFORE the ball is thrown. He's right on the edge of 3 yards when the ball leaves Clifford's hand. He's definitely more than 3 yards downfield once the ball gets to the TE. Could have been called, no doubt but that would have been shaky.

 

[fastlax16]

Also, have you ever seen a receiver walk over to a ref and say, I really dropped the ball ref -- you made a mistake calling it a catch

Our safety came in screaming it hit the ground immediately, video showed the ball on the ground and every play is supposed to be reviewed. So what’s your excuse for the booth not buzzing down? That’s how the system is supposed to work. What caused this to be missed? Was the equipment conveniently down, just like it was in 2016?

Blown holds happen and can’t be reviewed. Illinois held on every play two weeks ago. Balls hitting the ground are reviewable. Zero reason that shouldn’t have been overturned.

 

[dailybuck777]

Our safety came in screaming it hit the ground immediately, video showed the ball on the ground and every play is supposed to be reviewed. So what’s your excuse for the booth not buzzing down? That’s how the system is supposed to work. What caused this to be missed? Was the equipment conveniently down, just like it was in 2016?

Refs screw up all of the time. In game against Clemson 2 or 3 years ago, Clemson receiver took 3 steps with ball in his hand (not juggling), Jordan Fuller scooped it in and ran for touchdown. Refs on field called it fumble and touchdown. Review decided that it was irrefutable that ball fumbled. No one has defended this blown overturn as correct following the game.

Your No. 17 speared someone 2 or 3 games ago. Your own coaches saw it and gave instructions to player not to do it again. Refs didn't call it.

 

[JWB389]

Refs screw up all of the time. In game against Clemson 2 or 3 years ago, Clemson receiver took 3 steps with ball in his hand (not juggling), Jordan Fuller scooped it in and ran for touchdown. Refs on field called it fumble and touchdown. Review decided that it was irrefutable that ball fumbled. No one has defended this blowen overturn as correct following the game.

Your No. 17 speared someone 2 or 3 games ago. Your own coaches saw it and gave instructions to player not to do it again. Refs didn't call it.

There you have it. They even out.....OSU had a bad call against them 2 or 3 years ago.

 

[dailybuck777]

There you have it. They even out.....OSU had a bad call against them 2 or 3 years ago.

I could go on and on about bad calls against OSU as could every team. Just look at the link above for other PSU obvious holding not called. Could go back 2 or 3 games ago, when your no. 17 got away with a spear which PSU's coaches saw.

 

[JWB389]

I could go on and on about bad calls against OSU as could every team. Just look at the link above for other PSU obvious holding not called. Could go back 2 or 3 games ago, when your no. 17 got away with a spear which PSU's coaches saw.

I don't want to give the impression that Penn State lost because of bad officiating. We're a team with some major holes and definitely not a playoff level team. My point is that questioning holding calls that the camera happened to highlight is worthless.

I'm not sure which spearing call you're referring to, but we probably lost that game too, so who cares?

The problem I have is with the crazy one-off calls that always seem to happen between us. You know, bounce passes, fumbled snaps changed into meaningless penalties, field goals 3 seconds after the play clock expires, can't review because the ref in the booth was on the toilet. I'm sure others can fill in the entire list. These aren't garden variety missed holding calls or iffy PI garbage. They're egregious.

 

[grinagrin]

What about the 9 yard 'catch' that hit the ground?

That’s on Franklin. Brisker was jumping up and down in front of our bench indicating that the ball hit the ground. Franklin needs to believe Brisker (team captain) in that situation and challenge that.

 

[Obliviax]

I could go on and on about bad calls against OSU as could every team. Just look at the link above for other PSU obvious holding not called. Could go back 2 or 3 games ago, when your no. 17 got away with a spear which PSU's coaches saw.

well, there are missed calls. these are understandable. some better than others. But then there are calls that are procedural. For example, I understand the "forward progress" call vs Illinois. First, there was no whistle so that was a lie. Second, when they set the ball they put it back at the ten, the original LOS, when the player got hit at the 7 or 8. In the case of the snap infraction, again, it is a clear miss in terms of procedure. snap infraction is when the center flinches or tries to get the D to jump offsides. What happened here is the ball slipped out of the Center's hand when the entire rest of the offense engaged. This is a clear incorrect interpretation of the rules. That cannot be excused.

 

[fastlax16]

I could go on and on about bad calls against OSU as could every team. Just look at the link above for other PSU obvious holding not called. Could go back 2 or 3 games ago, when your no. 17 got away with a spear which PSU's coaches saw.

Big Ten responds to controversial Ohio State-Penn State calls - Big Ten Network

The Big Ten office has released statements on the multiple controversial calls in the Ohio State-Penn State game Saturday night. [btn-post-package] Ohio State won the game 31-24 in double overtime, but before Penn State rallied to force overtime, there were a couple of controversial plays. The...

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I would like to see the statements issued by the big ten regarding bad calls against OSU.

 

[LionRange]

That Ohio state double Ot win literally allowed Ohio state to win a national title. Without those bogus calls there is no parade in Columbus that year. I think we are owed more than a few holding calls after that sham

 

[The Spin Meister]

If a rule is difficult to enforce and erratically applied, I don't see any reason not to minimize the chances that it will be applied against your team. Bad calls are part of football and teams do whatever they can to take advantage of bad calls once they are made -- such as, for instance, trying quick snaps. Also, have you ever seen a receiver walk over to a ref and say, I really dropped the ball ref -- you made a mistake calling it a catch.

Several additional missed holding calls highlighted here: https://www.dispatch.com/story/spor...s-much/6234236001/?utm_campaign=snd-autopilot I am sure PSU reporter could find more OSU holds that weren't called.

Congratulations counselor. You have been very successful in your machinations to deflect the discussion away from the crime at hand. A very good attorney you must be. Substituting a discussion about subjective rule violations instead of a blatant screw up. Holding and PI are very subjective calls that are made at the speed of the game and often with obscured vision of the act in question. A bad angle, only partially seeing the players in question, trying to watch multiple players at once make these calls difficult.

But the snap of the ball is clearly seen by two officials as they stare down the line of scrimmage. It is the first motion of the play or the play is whistled dead. A defender can move but cannot enter the area the neutral zone where the balls sits so the ball is always visible at the snap. There is no excuse for two officials to not see that was a fumbled snap and not a snap infraction.

Additionally, this was a turnover with posession of the ball changing teams. A far more critical event than a mere step off of ten yards. I don’t remember which yardline it was on....methinks it would have given us the ball well within OSU territory....perhaps in the red zone .

There is no equating that with other live action play infractions despite your best attempts to do so.

 

[Agoodnap]

Refs screw up all of the time. In game against Clemson 2 or 3 years ago, Clemson receiver took 3 steps with ball in his hand (not juggling), Jordan Fuller scooped it in and ran for touchdown. Refs on field called it fumble and touchdown. Review decided that it was irrefutable that ball fumbled. No one has defended this blown overturn as correct following the game.

Your No. 17 speared someone 2 or 3 games ago. Your own coaches saw it and gave instructions to player not to do it again. Refs didn't call it.

Just stop now. You won't feel welcome here if you continue to keep this crap up.

 

[dailybuck777]

Substituting a discussion about subjective rule violations instead of a blatant screw up. ...

There is no equating that with other live action play infractions despite your best attempts to do so.

Some calls are sometimes discretionary, like holding. However, there is a scale from 0 to 100% as to whether some calls are holding. The half tackle by No. 73 (he was tackling the OSU rusher and he gave up as he got about 2 yds from SC) was 100% holding -- no reasonable dispute and nothing subjective about the call that was missed.

As I said before, it does appear that PSU got jobbed on the non-fumble call, but I do wonder how 4 officials could get the rule wrong. My speculation is either incompetence or there could have been a small movement that the camera angle doesn't show. In either event, it does appear that PSU was jobbed.

What I mainly object to is the idea that OSU is generally favored by the refs. Here is video of supposed non-fumble against Clemson. Clemson receiver had football firmly in place for 3.5 steps -- negating a scoop and score.

Here is video from 2007 against Illinois where Illinois fumbled 3 yards before goal line in crucial play and game and call wasn't overturned. https://buckeyebattlecry.blogspot.com/2008/07/ [hit flash content button under "Fired Ref" Instant reply should have reviewed but didn't.

Oddly enough the game was refereed by a crew chief bum named Pamon who was a child beater, had gone bankrupt and was fired from a police job. Also, oddly enough he reffed Purdue v PSU and Purdue coach claimed many calls against PSU were missed and Pamon was then suspended for one game following Tiller's complaints. https://news.yahoo.com/news/official-misconduct-225700741--ncaaf.html

 

[The Spin Meister]

Some calls are sometimes discretionary, like holding. However, there is a scale from 0 to 100% as to whether some calls are holding. The half tackle by No. 73 (he was tackling the OSU rusher and he gave up as he got about 2 yds from SC) was 100% holding -- no reasonable dispute and nothing subjective about the call that was missed.

As I said before, it does appear that PSU got jobbed on the non-fumble call, but I do wonder how 4 officials could get the rule wrong. My speculation is either incompetence or there could have been a small movement that the camera angle doesn't show. In either event, it does appear that PSU was jobbed.

What I mainly object to is the idea that OSU is generally favored by the refs. Here is video of supposed non-fumble against Clemson. Clemson receiver had football firmly in place for 3.5 steps -- negating a scoop and score.

View embedded media

Here is video from 2007 against Illinois where Illinois fumbled 3 yards before goal line in crucial play and game and call wasn't overturned. https://buckeyebattlecry.blogspot.com/2008/07/ [hit flash content button under "Fired Ref" Instant reply should have reviewed but didn't.

Oddly enough the game was refereed by a crew chief bum named Pamon who was a child beater, had gone bankrupt and was fired from a police job. Also, oddly enough he reffed Purdue v PSU and Purdue coach claimed many calls against PSU were missed and Pamon was then suspended for one game following Tiller's complaints. https://news.yahoo.com/news/official-misconduct-225700741--ncaaf.html

Gotta give it to you, you are good. Still shifting the debate.

Again, those are all subjective calls at the speed of the game with lots of action and limited views.

There is no excuse for blowing the bad snap. None. Nada. Zip. Zero. And THAT is the crap that makes people suspicious. And that it happens repeatedly in almost every game against OSU. A field goal three seconds after the play clock goes to zero. Hack’s helmet ripped off his AFTER a play is over right in front of two officials and nothing called.

Wanna cry about holding? Look at the OSU TD in which Mauti was held. Look at the center also tackling our LB. And the far side OSU offense tackle holds our DE.....all three holds in ONE SINGLE PLAY which just happened to be the winning touchdown late in a very hard fought game.

Cry me a River.......

 

[fastlax16]

Some calls are sometimes discretionary, like holding. However, there is a scale from 0 to 100% as to whether some calls are holding. The half tackle by No. 73 (he was tackling the OSU rusher and he gave up as he got about 2 yds from SC) was 100% holding -- no reasonable dispute and nothing subjective about the call that was missed.

As I said before, it does appear that PSU got jobbed on the non-fumble call, but I do wonder how 4 officials could get the rule wrong. My speculation is either incompetence or there could have been a small movement that the camera angle doesn't show. In either event, it does appear that PSU was jobbed.

What I mainly object to is the idea that OSU is generally favored by the refs. Here is video of supposed non-fumble against Clemson. Clemson receiver had football firmly in place for 3.5 steps -- negating a scoop and score.

View embedded media

Here is video from 2007 against Illinois where Illinois fumbled 3 yards before goal line in crucial play and game and call wasn't overturned. https://buckeyebattlecry.blogspot.com/2008/07/ [hit flash content button under "Fired Ref" Instant reply should have reviewed but didn't.

Oddly enough the game was refereed by a crew chief bum named Pamon who was a child beater, had gone bankrupt and was fired from a police job. Also, oddly enough he reffed Purdue v PSU and Purdue coach claimed many calls against PSU were missed and Pamon was then suspended for one game following Tiller's complaints. https://news.yahoo.com/news/official-misconduct-225700741--ncaaf.html

Also missing is barrett taking a knee on 4th down with time still on the clock, also reviewable (wasnt) which would have given Penn State a field goal attempt to end the first half.

You can thank this crew for your national title.

 

[odshowtime]

I could go on and on about bad calls against OSU as could every team. Just look at the link above for other PSU obvious holding not called. Could go back 2 or 3 games ago, when your no. 17 got away with a spear which PSU's coaches saw.

God I'm sick of these swine making excuses for the silver spoons that are wedged up their asses.

 

[Achowalogan]

Surprise Ohio State offensive lineman now have RED gloves to hold Nebraska....

 

[Obliviax]

Really bad no call on pass interference at about 5 to go. Awful

 

[CJFisJoePaII]

Really bad no call on pass interference at about 5 to go. Awful

That was pathetic - the duhO$U d-back clearly makes illegal contact as the UNL receiver makes his cut (and ball is in air) then he drags him down as he comes out of his cut - no flag. Even the FOX announcers who are alwaus duhO$U cheerleaders said it was clear PI and they had no idea how it didn't draw a flag.

 

[CJFisJoePaII]

Really bad no call on pass interference at about 5 to go. Awful

How about the "Kick Return Catch Interference" (a 15 yard penalty) they called on UNL on a punt duhO$U fielded at their own ten.... when the UNL defender was clearly well to the side of where duhO$U player fair-catches punt and rule specifically says defender must be directly in front of returner and within 1 yard of returner.

 

[Waltwam]

I understand that a lot of people feel that holding is much called as much as it should be. However, that tackle was an obvious hold in plain sight that should be called every time and I don't think that the referees would defend the call in any instance.

Well today, Nebraska was driving for what could have been the go ahead score. 3rd and long, the Nebraska receiver was clearly mugged!! No call. B10 refs have no consistency in making calls. Why would you expect it to start now? More often than not, the calls go your way!

 

[Rip_E_2_Joe_PA]

Refs make mistakes and miss calls all the time. However, the decision not to review calls that are must review by rule is a boldface insult to the game and all participants in the game...all players, coaches and refs trying to do their best in execution of their responsibilities.

 

[pandaczar12]

What I mainly object to is the idea that OSU is generally favored by the refs. Here is video of supposed non-fumble against Clemson. Clemson receiver had football firmly in place for 3.5 steps -- negating a scoop and score.

View embedded media

Seriously? Have you asked yourself what conference officiating crew was working that game?

Here is video from 2007 against Illinois where Illinois fumbled 3 yards before goal line in crucial play and game and call wasn't overturned. https://buckeyebattlecry.blogspot.com/2008/07/ [hit flash content button under "Fired Ref" Instant reply should have reviewed but didn't.

Oddly enough the game was refereed by a crew chief bum named Pamon who was a child beater, had gone bankrupt and was fired from a police job. Also, oddly enough he reffed Purdue v PSU and Purdue coach claimed many calls against PSU were missed and Pamon was then suspended for one game following Tiller's complaints. https://news.yahoo.com/news/official-misconduct-225700741--ncaaf.html

So one ref makes one call that is bad, but not as bad as the multiple calls that have gone against PSU vs OSU, and the B10 immediately fires him. Who was fired for the bouncing pass in 2003? Who was fired for the loss of replay feed and refusal to look at the jumbotron? Who was fired for the missed delay of game on the FG? Who was fired for the snap infraction? etc., etc., etc.

 

[crm114psu]

Nothing smart about intentionally trying to subvert the rules of the game If you need to deliberately cheat to so , why bother playing...you disrespect the game...



There is always an explanation for failure of character....

Just curious where you weigh in on the sideline pushing to the ground opposing players? Or the 2 unsportsmanlike conduct on a single play? Are these examples of your "Success with honor" ?

Love the "ours doesn't stink" proponents.

 

[Achowalogan]

Just curious where you weigh in on the sideline pushing to the ground opposing players? Or the 2 unsportsmanlike conduct on a single play? Are these examples of your "Success with honor" ?

Love the "ours doesn't stink" proponents.

They are not examples of "Success with Honor" and some type of discipline is in order. Generally, the team members do not have the same level of personal accountability they once had and that is reflected on the field in level of performance. Hence, we have these sorts of incidents.

Unfortunately, the "i" culture in society today rules the day....in all aspects of life as we know it, folks are less aware of how their individual behavior affects other individuals.

In the case of the "white" or "red" gloves - this is an intentional, pre-planned effort to subvert the rules of the game. The infractions, while wrong, are an unplanned immediate response to a situation.

We are no comparing apples to apples.

 

[The Spin Meister]

Love the "ours doesn't stink" proponents.

Football - DL Fred Hansard apologizes to Maryland QB Taulia Tagovailoa

Penn State DL Fred Hansard apologizes to #Maryland QB Taulia Tagovailoa for the unsportsmanlike behavior on Saturday.

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