So.... Emmert says he prefer's playoffs expand to 8 teams...
- Thread starter bwifan
- Start date
If the committee can't get the top 4 right, why does anyone think they will get the top 8 correct. I heard someone on TV say Penn State, Wisconsin and Michigan would have all made the top 8 with Oklahoma. I am no expert, but there is no way the Big Ten should have 4 teams in an 8 team playoff.
NCAA has nothing to do with football money from playoffs/bowls. It is not their production/championship.
Not that most folks will "get it" (nor "get" why it is important).......
But the current system is NOT a "Playoff".
Not in any way, shape, or form.
Guess what - - - - Emmert knows that better than anyone.
NCAA Sponsored Playoffs.....where does the money go?
To the NCAA, of course - - - - currently, the NCAA brings in +/- $1,000,000,000 per year....that is One Billion Dollars
Somewhere in the vicinity of 80-90% of that money is generated solely from the NCAA Basketball Tournament.
Why doesn't the NCAA bring in huge piles of cash from the NCAA Football Playoff?
The answer is simple - and Emmert, more than anyone else knows the answer:
It is because college football (at the FBS level) HAS NO F&CKING PLAYOFF!!
If they did, the NCAA would control the process, and control the $$$$$
The day there is a structured, actual, honest-to-God PLAYOFF system in FBS football....one with rules, parameters, and participation by all NCAA FBS programs:
Emmert's NCAA becomes one hell of a lot richer (and more powerful)......and the P5 Commissars get knocked down a peg.
The current system is NOT a playoff for that very reason.......the P5 Conference Commissars know that as well.......and the only way THEY can continue to control the money, is to make sure that there is no playoff in FBS level football.
Jeebzus.
In a society where we always hear the phrase "follow the money".....why does no one recognize this wrt the "college football playoff" question?
You are correct on that one.... Just have to see the back office meetings that are being rumored to be happening between all the P5 people. With the rumored P5 wanting to break away from the NCAA, obviously both sides know there is a boatload of money at stake. The P5 wants less NCAA instrusion and more money for themselves whereas obviously Heir Emmert and the boys want the majority of the coin... should be an interesting battle.
That battle has been going on for a loooooong time
But, unlike most conflicts, this is a battle where both "combatants" are growing even richer and fatter every day......
The NCAA gets to keep their fat pig (thanks to a nod-and-a-wink from the P5 Commissars) - - - the NCAA Basketball Tourney
The P5 azzholes get to keep their fat pig (thanks to a nod-and-a-wink from the NCAA Poobahs) - - - - the FBS Football money
Everyone else, from the indentured-servant "student athletes", to the "just keep sending us your money" Fan-Boys, gets left at the altar.
And no one knows how this game works better than the NCAA Poobahs and the P5 "shizholians"
Once a person becomes "not stupid" enough.....when they open their eyes to the real underlying reasons for all this bullshit......it is impossible to view any of this crap in the preferred context of the "mass-media bloviators".
For better or worse ......95% of the relevant demographic has NOT acquired the necessary quantity of "not stupid" (as evidenced by the idiocy of the angst rants wrt the "College Football Playoff")
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8 teams has a better chance to cover all the bases compared to four teams . I'd be okay with that.
That battle has been going on for a loooooong time
But, unlike most conflicts, this is a battle where both "combatants" are growing even richer and fatter every day......
The NCAA gets to keep their fat pig (thanks to a nod-and-a-wink from the P5 Commissars) - - - the NCAA Basketball Tourney
The P5 azzholes get to keep their fat pig (thanks to a nod-and-a-wink from the NCAA Poobahs) - - - - the FBS Football money
Everyone else, from the indentured-servant "student athletes", to the "just keep sending us your money" Fan-Boys, gets left at the altar.
And no one knows how this game works better than the NCAA Poobahs and the P5 "shizholians"
Once a person becomes "not stupid" enough.....when they open their eyes to the real underlying reasons for all this bullshit......it is impossible to view any of this crap in the preferred context of the "mass-media bloviators".
For better or worse ......95% of the relevant demographic has NOT acquired the necessary quantity of "not stupid" (as evidenced by the idiocy of the angst rants wrt the "College Football Playoff")
Just remember with hogs... they can never get enough and eventually a feud breaks out over the food. They just can't help themselves. Too much is never enough. We are nearing that point, where the P5 want the most money and won't be stopped. Plus they don't like the overreaching lately by the NCAA. The pot is starting to boil just a matter of when it starts to spill over...
Huh? Under an 8-team system with an "auto-bid" for P5 Conference Champions (up to Conference rules/formula they use to determine their "auto-bid" Champion) plus one "auto-bid" for highest ranked G5 + Independents and two "at-large selections" by the Selection Committee, 4 B1G teams would not "automatically" make such a playoff - you're absurd screed notwithstanding. This system is far more objective as EVERY TEAM has a route to "play their way into the 'playoff' " via auto-bid criteria - if you're a P5 team and you don't win your Conference Championship, then you should be subject to the "Selection Committee's" criteria and the "at-large selection" process. That is far fairer than EXCLUDING Conference Champions who had the best ABSOLUTE RECORD in Conference Play as well as a head-to-head victory, the Conference Division Championship and the Conference Championship via the CCG in favor of a team from the same Conference that had the 2nd best record, lost to the Conference Champion in head-to-head Conference Division play, came in 2nd in the Division race and didn't even qualify to play in the Conference Championship via the CCG!!!
Only a complete illogical tool could claim that a 4-Team Invitational that can subjectively EXCLUDE a Conference Champion in favor of a 2nd/3rd place Division and Conference team with an inferior record to the Conference Champion, which is not an actual playoff with defined rules for qualifying, but fraudulently labels itself as such for purposes of self-preservation propaganda and spin, is better than an ACTUAL PLAYOFF with defined rules for how 8 teams can qualify via either 6 "auto-bids" or 2 "at-large selections" can qualify! Anybody who understands math understands that the probability the "absolute" best team is missed in the latter 8-Team "ACTUAL PLAYOFF" format is infinitesimal, while the probabilities that the absolute best team (given that all teams are playing differing schedules with the Conference Schedules being most similar) ON THE FIELD OF PLAY is passed over using a 4-Team, completely subjective, bull$hit "Invitational Tournament" format is quite high given the number of deserving teams left out!
Yes it is....
But recognizing "what it is" (ie, NOT a Playoff), is only Step 1 in the "self-education and understanding process"
The far more important step is to understand:
A - Why the "powers that be" insist on referring to it as a "playoff" (going so far as to dub the folks who were sitting around in a room at a Texas Resort on Saturday a "playoff committee")....and why they cackle with delight over the "mass-market" of fan-boys gobbling that crap up so readily - to the point where the Fan-Boys engage in endless debate over the "playoff"
and
B - Why an actual playoff does NOT exist
They still could have set up objective rules making even a 4-Team Invitational a much more legitimate "playoff" format and FAR LESS BIASED and SUBJECTIVE. For instance, they could have just said the 4 highest ranked Conference Champions (regardless of conference) or Independents will qualify. The 4 qualifiers will then be seeded into Semi-Final slots. Additionally, they could have gone to a larger field via "play-in games" where the P5 get auto-bids with 6 additional slots playing in a "play-in game" to determine the 8 slot field (or they could have done this with 6 team field where two highest ranked auto-qualifying P5 Conference Champions get a first round bye and the remaining 4 teams, including 1 "at-large selection", play play-in games to the semifinals)....etc.... There are many ways they could have made the current system far more OBJECTIVE and RULES BASED, but they didn't - they left it completely SUBJECTIVE and specifically subject to massive BIAS and COI, go figure!?!? LOL..... You want to know why the "system" created reeks of corruption and cronyism, just take a look at the scumbag inventors of the system!
Cut the number of regular season games by 1 and then divy the Conference Championship monies to the schools ..
Yes, but still a beauty contest there, too. There will be squabbles over who plays who when they are "seeded". Just invite 8 conference champs. There''s no debate there (aside from arguing why does the AAC and similar get a bid). That's a different debate)
Nearly every program playing 13
A whole bunch of teams playing 14
And two teams - in the entire country - playing 15
Is OK?
But:
Nearly every program playing 13
A whole bunch of teams playing 14
And four teams - in the entire country - playing 15
And two teams - in the entire country - playing 16 (i.e. - on average, an FBS program would play an extra "16th game" once every 70 years
)..........Is "magically" too much?1,700 participations in FBS football per year is OK
but
1,704...too much? That is the reason you don't see a FBS football playoff?
Uh....yea, right?
And if PSU lost 1 home game a year, do you think your solution would make up for the drop in revenue?
PPB has a point. While an 8-team playoff fixes some problems with the current process, it also creates problems for the student-athletes. I'm not sure how any of them would be able to handle preparation for or the taking of finals if they were playing all through December. Plus, those that would graduate at the end of the fall semester would likely miss their graduation due to a playoff game. Also, keep in mind that the wallets/pocketbooks of fans have limits. It's tough enough to dig deeper and rearrange schedules to accommodate a conference championship game, especially if you don't know that your team is in it until the previous Saturday. Imagine replicating that scenario for several weekends. The games could be played at higher seed fields, which helps one set of fans to some degree, though some of the stadiums in the North, including PSU's, may not be designed to handle games in December. And somehow, the bowl games would like to remain relevant, and they realize how much the current CFP has hurt them.
I'm certainly not advocating that the current CFP is a great set-up. I just feel that alternatives need to also address the issues I raised, and additional ones that I didn't even bring up. I'm always suspicious of simple solutions to complex problems.
One question though ... will though conferences "throw" championship games in order to get more teams in?
For example the SEC Championship game this year. Alabama vs Florida. If Alabama loses, both teams would end up being in because no one would've said after the season Bama had that they'd drop from 1 to out of the top 8 (or out of the top 2-3 at larges however you want to word it)
For example the SEC Championship game this year. Alabama vs Florida. If Alabama loses, both teams would end up being in because no one would've said after the season Bama had that they'd drop from 1 to out of the top 8 (or out of the top 2-3 at larges however you want to word it)
Whole process is a joke. Think about it. We want a lone "champion" after a dozen games amongst a national "league" comprised of over a hundred teams. Ridiculous, and impossible without doing it (solely) by some sort of computer-weighting program.
I long for the days when people viewed the "prize" as going to a new and pleasant location -- this year Pasadena. Now it's about being able to unequivocally brag that your team is #1. Is that what's important? Generates a society full of Buckeye types that have nothing else to live for.
I long for the days when people viewed the "prize" as going to a new and pleasant location -- this year Pasadena. Now it's about being able to unequivocally brag that your team is #1. Is that what's important? Generates a society full of Buckeye types that have nothing else to live for.
Yes, if you reduce the number of conference games, wherein half the teams would have been on the road anyway, so no revenue for them.
First thing that ever came out of Emmert's mouth I have ever agreed with. Getting relegated to the Miss Congeniality Bowl this year absolutely, positively sucks. Especially when we met the parameters that were used in previous years. You HAVE to have a set up where the Champion is determined on the field of play or it will only be a Beauty contest from here on in.
You think Delany hates us??? He has an absolute love affair with us compared to the bast@-ds in that smoke filled room that will forever refer to us as "Pedo State. Heck. The only reason we are going to the Rose Bowl is because they are contractually obligated to send us. Otherwise, we would probably be playing Western Michigan.
We need a system that will lock these losers into a contractual requirement to send us to the Playoffs if this bullsh!+ ever happens again. An 8 team playoff would do it with the 5 P-5 Champs getting automatic bids. The first round would be at the home stadium of the 4 highest seeds to cut down on travel issues.
Who the crap wouldn't go to Beaver Stadium in December to watch a Playoff Game????
I am trying to read your diatribe, but you lost me when you referred to my post as an absurd screed. If you want to break your thought process into some sentences that are readable, I would be glad to give it another try. Rather than the name calling, why don't you try some concise sentences that actually make sense.
Actually, you're only talking about a maximum of two Conference Champions via CCG who would play 16 games (possibly none if the neither of the finalists played a CCG - i.e., such finalists would only have played 15 games). An additional two teams could play 15 games via a CCG, but again the other two semi-finalists might lose only having played 14 games. The losing quarter-finalists (first round in 8-team format without play-in games) would only play a maximum or 14 games if they lost having won a CCG qualifier. Personally, I like a system that would have 3 non-P5 Conference Champion slots be "play-in" games (i.e., 6 teams compete to get three slots with P5 Conf Champion "auto-qualifiers"). This would result in most of the 1st Round "play in" losers bowing out after playing 13 games (tons of teams currently play 13 game schedules including those who play Hawaii OOC), then half of the remaining 8 would likely bow-out after playing 14 games (so 4 teams would likely play 15 games - the current system generally has 2 teams playing 15 games) and finally, 2 teams would play a 16th game. You're acting like all of FBS would be playing 16 games when the reality is that only 2 teams would play one more game than they are currently playing - IOW, your position is nothing but spin and bull$hit in support of the corrupt @sshats running the current system.
And if PSU lost 1 home game a year, do you think your solution would make up for the drop in revenue?
PPB has a point. While an 8-team playoff fixes some problems with the current process, it also creates problems for the student-athletes. I'm not sure how any of them would be able to handle preparation for or the taking of finals if they were playing all through December. Plus, those that would graduate at the end of the fall semester would likely miss their graduation due to a playoff game. Also, keep in mind that the wallets/pocketbooks of fans have limits. It's tough enough to dig deeper and rearrange schedules to accommodate a conference championship game, especially if you don't know that your team is in it until the previous Saturday. Imagine replicating that scenario for several weekends. The games could be played at higher seed fields, which helps one set of fans to some degree, though some of the stadiums in the North, including PSU's, may not be designed to handle games in December. And somehow, the bowl games would like to remain relevant, and they realize how much the current CFP has hurt them.
I'm certainly not advocating that the current CFP is a great set-up. I just feel that alternatives need to also address the issues I raised, and additional ones that I didn't even bring up. I'm always suspicious of simple solutions to complex problems.
A 6-Team format with 2-Play in games (4 teams) and 2 byes is a very minor incremental step which decreases the probability of leaving out the absolute best team exponentially because it would allow a guaranteed "auto bid" for 4 P5 Conferences already playing a CCG (i.e., a quasi playoff "first round" game) and create two "At-Large Selections" where the Selection Committee can select two teams from the B12, G5, Independents and non-champions of B1G, SEC, ACC and Pac12 Divisions (i.e., non-qualifiers for their CCG quasi "playoff game".....IOW, it puts them on equal footing with B12, G5 and Independents for the 2 "at-large selections" subjectively made by the "Selection Committee" via their ranking).
Seeding could also be done by "Selection Committee" with the caveat that the top 2 seeds (i.e., those getting 1st Round bye) must be from the P5 Conference Champions via CCG as these teams would have already proved themselves in what is an effective 1st Rd playoff game. This system would also cure the question of "who is truly the 2nd best team in P5 Conference's playing CCG?" (i.e., daO$U and Wisconsin in the B1G this year - PSU clearly proved themselves the absolute best team in B1G Conference play with the absolute best record, 9-1. What was unknown is whether the 2nd Place B1G East Division Team was better than the West Division Champion (especially true given that daO$U beat Wisconsin head-to-head in X-Division play and had a better record than Wisconsin in Conference play ultimately: 8-1 versus 7-3)).
Again, this system cures this problem as daO$U could have been selected with one of the two "at-large" selections correctly comparing daO$U to the B12 Champion who only played 12 regular season games and no CCG (just like daO$U) and lost to daO$U head-to-head in OOC play. PSU should not have been excluded when they DEFINITIVELY proved themselves the best team in the B1G via multiple different measures (i.e., best overall record against Conference teams, head-to-head win versus team with 2nd best overall record in conference play, daO$U, B1G East Title over daO$U and finally winning a 13th Game against the #6 team in the nation in the CCG) - the above 6-Team Format would cure that problem and still leave the "Selection Committee" the discretion to admit 2 deserving teams one of whom may be a deserving selection but just unfortunately played in the absolute best Conference Division that year with another of the absolute most deserving teams in the nation who was slightly better, won their head-to-head, won the Division and won the CCG, posted the absolute best record in that Conference's play and therefore got the "auto-bid" slot as they should and would under any "true" playoff format, which the current completely subjective, biased, "corrupt beauty-pageant" Invitational Format most certainly is NOT.
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Yes that's what's "important". That's the ONLY thing that's important. Otherwise, why play? Just give everyone a medal.
This year they should have. OSU #2, PSU5 Mich 6 Wisc 8- all earned on the field. If the intent is to reward the best performance, what does it matter what conference they' re from. The best teams , conference is B1G this year.
That last sentence, 181 words, is a whopper. I guess I won't get the concise sentences I had hoped for. However it looks to me as though there is still subjectivity from the committee. As long as the committee is charged with making subjective decisions, there is the liklihood of complaints regarding their decisions and the chance of a beauty-pageant exists. If I have misread your detailed explanation, I apologize.
Just curious, you don't think both Oklahoma and Southern Cal belong?
But they are home in alternate years, so they lose essentially the revenue from 1/2 home game per year. Besides, the money from conference championship games is already divided among the schools.
No, Barry, the NCAA would not control the playoff, just as they exert no control over it know. No way that the folks who run the P5 would ever allow that to happen.
It's a question of who is getting screwed with their "subjective decisions". Given that daO$U clearly had the second best record in B1G play by multiple measures including B1G East Division Play, overall record in B1G play at end of the day, no B1G CCG berth let alone a B1G CCG win and B1G Title, etc.... All of these "seconds" and "also rans" by daO$U to the same team - the B1G Champion by both regular season record and B1G CCG! The only portion of teams' schedules that are remotely similar and can be DIRECTLY COMPARED are their CONFERENCE SCHEDULES which make up 75% of their regular season games! IOW, every B1G team would face the same OBJECTIVE CRITERIA - you want to control your own destiny and "auto-qualify" for the post-season Championship Format, you need to win your Conference Championship on the field of play! If you don't win your own Conference Championship than you DESERVE to be subject to the "Selection Committee's" at-large purely-subjective selection process.
Because if you expand to 8 you you take most of the decisions out of the committees hands. The power 5 conference champions get an automatic bid. The highest ranked group of 5 conference champion/independent gets in if in the top 15. The highest rated teams get at large bids. You can bring back a hybrid of computer/human polls for seeding and at large. This way every school has a predefined path to the playoffs. The top 4 ranked champions/independent are seeded 1-4 and host the first round. The remain schools are ranked 1-4.
So this year host teams:
1. Alabama
2. Clemson
3. Washington
4. Penn State
Visiting teams:
1. Ohio State
2. Michigan
3. Oklahoma
4. Western Michigan
Fist Round
WMU at Alabama
Oklahoma at Clemson
Michigan at Washington
Ohio State at Penn State
Why can D2, D3, FCS, NAIA, PIAA, High School, NFL etc. all play 16+ games yet FBS is the only leve where it is too much? Some of these play that many with no bye week.
It is funny but FCS, Diviosion II, Division III and NAIA schools have all found a way to make it work. I don't see why people think FBS can't when they have far superior athletic academic support teams.
