So.....OSU has better talent because they recruited more highly-ranked classes?

[bjf1991]

Just to highlight some of the lazy idiocy you see from "experts":

It doesn't matter who you RECRUIT......it matters who is ON THE TEAM.


Whether or not OSU brought in more highly talented recruits or not (and one would reasonably conclude that they did), using that to determine that they have a more talented group of players in 2017 just shows how lazy the "experts" (and their followers) are:

OSU will go into 2017 WITHOUT, due to early-NFL, injuries, or whatever........ all of the following recruits from 2014-2017 - who could have been part of their 2017 squad:

T Gerald / J Dean / Schmidt / Gibson / McMillan / M Jones / Trout / Berger / Samuels / N Brown / Lattimore

ALL 11 where "4 Star" or better recruits .....

Along with "3 Star" recruits Hooker / Felder / Stump / Jurkovic / Collier

That's a lot of "recruiting talent" over the last 4 years that will NOT be on the field for the 2017 Buckeyes.


PSU - on the other hand - will be without the following 2014-2017 recruits:

Godwin, M O'Conner, and K Carter (4 star recruits)
and Brosnan, Sorrell, Beh, White, Cooper, Worley, and Reeder.



They still have a boatload of talented kids:
But "what they brought in" doesn't help if it ain't no longer there

 

[dawgduice]

I believe if PSU can recruit as they have (top 20 or better every year) we can and will compete with OSU. One reason is that generally, as you pointed out, our kids stay longer and thus are a bit more mature and experienced. A great example of that are Cothren and Cothran. Last year it was Evan Schwan. These are kids that are not NFL and play at a high level because of experience and age. In short, we have 3 and 4 star players that play longer, OSU "talent" generally leaves ASAP. Michigan last year was loaded with senior talent and were able to compete with OSU.

 

[Rip_E_2_Joe_PA]

Come on, everybody knows that Div 1 talent is measured by stars when a kid is 17 and paying high school competition and not by performance on the field 1 on 1 once they get to div 1 and are 20 years old playing Div 1 trained and prepared talent.

This is the logic of our times...... the days of Socrates, Plato and Aristotle are long gone.

 

[Franklin_Restores_TheTradition]

Just to highlight some of the lazy idiocy you see from "experts":

It doesn't matter who you RECRUIT......it matters who is ON THE TEAM.


Whether or not OSU brought in more highly talented recruits or not (and one would reasonably conclude that they did), using that to determine that they have a more talented group of players in 2017 just shows how lazy the "experts" (and their followers) are:

OSU will go into 2017 WITHOUT, due to early-NFL, injuries, or whatever........ all of the following recruits from 2014-2017 - who could have been part of their 2017 squad:

T Gerald / J Dean / Schmidt / Gibson / McMillan / M Jones / Trout / Berger / Samuels / N Brown / Lattimore

ALL 11 where "4 Star" or better recruits .....

Along with "3 Star" recruits Hooker / Felder / Stump / Jurkovic / Collier

That's a lot of "recruiting talent" over the last 4 years that will NOT be on the field for the 2017 Buckeyes.


PSU - on the other hand - will be without the following 2014-2017 recruits:

Godwin, M O'Conner, and K Carter (4 star recruits)
and Brosnan, Sorrell, Beh, White, Cooper, Worley, and Reeder.



They still have a boatload of talented kids:
But "what they brought in" doesn't help if it ain't no longer there

Gee, how come that clearly "better talent" didn't prevent PSU from sacking their QB SIX TIMES last year including TWICE in daO$U's last possession when they had the ball with over 4 minutes still to play and only down by 3??? (daO$U used up over 3 minutes of clock in this possession and turned the ball over on downs after gaining a grand total of 12 yards after starting the possession via Kickoff....). LMFAO, as Forrest Gump would say, "Talent is as talent does.".....high ranking HIGH SCHOOL commits and prospects does not make them "talented" College performers....

 

[NittPicker]

Those "experts" need to talk about something to justify themselves being called an "expert". If teams could be ranked strictly on recruiting history there would be no reason to play the games. We won the B1G last year and those "experts" were still saying we were the third best team in the conference. Why? Because they didn't think we had the athletes nor did they recognize the vast improvement after the Michigan debacle. Regardless of that we still won the conference title but the "experts" rarely admit they're wrong. If they did they'd be admitting they're not an expert.

 

[BBG65]

Good points, but they are right in that Ohio State does generally have more top to bottom talent than Penn State and just about every other college team, plus excellent coaching. That experience and age factor is what allows teams like Northwestern to be competitive every year, but never dominant because of the lack of top talent.

 

[mrtailgate]

IMHO, it all plays out on the field and I don't put any stake in what experts say.

Having said that, so much goes into the outcome but to me it has always been talent, execution, and intangibles. The biggest intangible for me has always been the impact of home field which you can't control so it largely comes down to talent and execution. If Ohio State fumbles on every possession, they likely lose as execution was lacking. For me, it's simple. Win on the road and win more frequently then once a decade and this will point to comparative levels of talent. You lose the intangibles always on the road so that your talent and execution has to be at a much higher level. When you go into a hostile road environment and both teams play clean, hard to say that you don't win without better talent. So, the road results will ultimately tell you where you are. Battle them tooth and nail more frequently on the road, you're as good as them. Get beat down on the road, you're probably not comparable if both sides play clean.

I think it's pretty clear that the Franklin era started last year. On field success and recruiting prowess has leveled the field somewhat. Win another BIG this year and you have everyone's attention and set the stage for an epic run of battles with Brutus and the Skunks. I think it's pretty clear that Urban has been loaded and has had better talent. Some thought the pecking order was likely Bama and OSU. Franklin, staff, and our kids have shown there is another entry into the sweepstakes. Win the BIG and beat them again on the road and the story changes for sure.

We are privileged to have a seat to watch it unfold. This is such a big year. Turn it on again and the momentum sets up a glory run. I can't wait to watch it all.

 

[BoulderFish]

I believe if PSU can recruit as they have (top 20 or better every year) we can and will compete with OSU. One reason is that generally, as you pointed out, our kids stay longer and thus are a bit more mature and experienced. A great example of that are Cothren and Cothran. Last year it was Evan Schwan. These are kids that are not NFL and play at a high level because of experience and age. In short, we have 3 and 4 star players that play longer, OSU "talent" generally leaves ASAP. Michigan last year was loaded with senior talent and were able to compete with OSU.

That's a good point, and kinda an equalizer between teams that don't recruit equally, but aren't too far apart. Seems like such an obvious point now that you've said it, and maybe everyone else has been considering it all along, but I never really thought of it that way. Thanks for posting that.

 

[Franklin_Restores_TheTradition]

Good points, but they are right in that Ohio State does generally have more top to bottom talent than Penn State and just about every other college team, plus excellent coaching. That experience and age factor is what allows teams like Northwestern to be competitive every year, but never dominant because of the lack of top talent.

Wrong - citing high end recruits that have proven nothing on a DIA college football field does not equate to "talent" as it is completely unproven at the collegiate level. If anything it is "proven high school talent" which means jack $hit at the DIA level as the percentage of "proven high school talents" that fail to ever even start at the collegiate level is quite high. In terms of "proven" top-end collegiate talent RETURNING for 2017, it is absurd to say anyone has more than PSU which is returning virtually all of their 2-Deep depth chart intact.

 

[Jerademan74]

Just to highlight some of the lazy idiocy you see from "experts":

It doesn't matter who you RECRUIT......it matters who is ON THE TEAM.


Whether or not OSU brought in more highly talented recruits or not (and one would reasonably conclude that they did), using that to determine that they have a more talented group of players in 2017 just shows how lazy the "experts" (and their followers) are:

OSU will go into 2017 WITHOUT, due to early-NFL, injuries, or whatever........ all of the following recruits from 2014-2017 - who could have been part of their 2017 squad:

T Gerald / J Dean / Schmidt / Gibson / McMillan / M Jones / Trout / Berger / Samuels / N Brown / Lattimore

ALL 11 where "4 Star" or better recruits .....

Along with "3 Star" recruits Hooker / Felder / Stump / Jurkovic / Collier

That's a lot of "recruiting talent" over the last 4 years that will NOT be on the field for the 2017 Buckeyes.


PSU - on the other hand - will be without the following 2014-2017 recruits:

Godwin, M O'Conner, and K Carter (4 star recruits)
and Brosnan, Sorrell, Beh, White, Cooper, Worley, and Reeder.



They still have a boatload of talented kids:
But "what they brought in" doesn't help if it ain't no longer there

Don't kid yourself, OSU has been recruiting higher talent level kids for several years now, and Penn State only for the last few or so years. Having said that, it doesn't always just matter if 1 team has more highly talented players when the game is on the line. What matters is which team has the highest hunger to win! We proved that last season, and think we will again this upcoming season. We should never fear any team or we will play not to lose like we had in past some of our later games under one of the former coaching staffs.!

 

[Franklin_Restores_TheTradition]

Don't kid yourself, OSU has been recruiting higher talent level kids for several years now, and Penn State only for the last few or so years. Having said that, it doesn't always just matter if 1 team has more highly talented players when the game is on the line. What matters is which team has the highest hunger to win! We proved that last season, and think we will again this upcoming season. We should never fear any team or we will play not to lose like we had in past some of our later games under one of the former coaching staffs.!

Huh??? daO$U proved that they had more talented people who actually played in the game by giving up SIX QB sacks and losing the game including TWO of the SIX QB sacks surrendered on their last possession after receiving the ball via KO with almost 5 minutes still to play and only down 3 points.....possessing the ball for over 3 minutes in this final possession before turning it over on downs after having gained a grand total of 12 yards in the drive??? Amusing theory at best that this is quality proof of "more talent".....LMFAO!

 

[OldTiredLion]

Experts? Oh, you mean the people employed by ESPN and other networks, those kind of "experts?" Many whom are graduates of broadcasting curriculums like Syracuse? The only difference I see between guys pounding a keyboard a couple times a day on a football board and the "experts" is a pressed white shirt, no corporate agenda in which to adhere and less censorship. I'd rather read this forum or Scout's any day than listen to Screamin' A. Smith, Mark May, Kirk Herbstreit etc...

 

[mrtailgate]

Huh??? daO$U proved that they had more talented people who actually played in the game by giving up SIX QB sacks and losing the game including TWO of the SIX QB sacks surrendered on their last possession after receiving the ball via KO with almost 5 minutes still to play and only down 3 points.....possessing the ball for over 3 minutes in this final possession before turning it over on downs after having gained a grand total of 12 yards in the drive??? Amusing theory at best that this is quality proof of "more talent".....LMFAO!

At that point last year, PSU had an incredible surge of momentum after the block six. There was no way OSU was going to simply move down the field. The Beav was pulsing, it was hysteria, and the adrenaline rush for the good guys was off the charts. Game on now and we will see where we stack up when we go into a very hostile Shoe this year. I'll take our chances though, I'm expecting a tight competitive game.

 

[LuvDaLions]

Having a bunch of talented individuals is great, but it's more important to have a team of players that fit your system and have the skill sets to contribute to what is needed in that system.

 

[MtNittany]

 

[royboy]

At that point last year, PSU had an incredible surge of momentum after the block six. There was no way OSU was going to simply move down the field. The Beav was pulsing, it was hysteria, and the adrenaline rush for the good guys was off the charts. Game on now and we will see where we stack up when we go into a very hostile Shoe this year. I'll take our chances though, I'm expecting a tight competitive game.

Yeah, it's not like tOSU had more than 4 minutes left, timeouts to use, a FG to tie or a TD to win, and had the First Team All-B1G veteran QB at the helm......

Oh, wait....

 

[Franklin_Restores_TheTradition]

View embedded media

This is right up there with JT being the best QB in the B1G and CFB despite repeatedly proving otherwise on the field of play, especially in regards to the passing game! Barrett averaged less than 200 yards a game passing (and an extremely crappy 6.74 yards per attempt) and utterly stunk up the joint against every marginally decent team and defense he played against.....but according to the Eternal SPiN machine he was the best QB in the B1G, blah, blah, blah..... Huh? WTF? Nobody who knows anything about football thinks JT Barrett is even a "good QB", let alone the best in the B1G or among the best in the nation, LMFAO!

 

[Franklin_Restores_TheTradition]

Having a bunch of talented individuals is great, but it's more important to have a team of players that fit your system and have the skill sets to contribute to what is needed in that system.

Yes, but the point of the OP is that "star rankings" of high school player-commits is a comical citation relative to the claim that they have proven to be "talented" collegiate players! Citing the number of stars a player received from recruiting "experts" as more important than the percentage of starters and 2-Deep players returning from a B1G Championship Team is stupid - beyond stupid actually, laughable.

 

[artsandletters]

Come on, everybody knows that Div 1 talent is measured by stars when a kid is 17 and paying high school competition and not by performance on the field 1 on 1 once they get to div 1 and are 20 years old playing Div 1 trained and prepared talent.

This is the logic of our times...... the days of Socrates, Plato and Aristotle are long gone.

Socrates, Plato and Aristotle may be gone but we have Gunsie, Jive and Nate. It's a push, right?

 

[mrtailgate]

Yeah, it's not like tOSU had more than 4 minutes left, timeouts to use, a FG to tie or a TD to win, and had the First Team All-B1G veteran QB at the helm......

Oh, wait....

All true and point taken but momentum is like a tidal wave and at that point one team is seriously swimming up stream and the other team has a hurricane behind them. We saw it a lot this year in spades in the second half of multiple games. One team can't get out of its way, the other team is just flat out ballin. But I hear what you are saying.

 

[Franklin_Restores_TheTradition]

All true and point taken but momentum is like a tidal wave and at that point one team is seriously swimming up stream and the other team has a hurricane behind them. We saw it a lot this year in spades in the second half of multiple games. One team can't get out of its way, the other team is just flat out ballin. But I hear what you are saying.

Yea, all except for the fact that two-thirds, 4 of the 6, sacks recorded by PSU took place prior to the last drive AND PSU had held daO$U scoreless for the entire 20 minutes and 40 seconds prior to the last drive as well... Hardly a "change in momentum" defensively when daO$U's offense had scored a grand total of 7 points in the 2nd half of the game and hadn't scored an offensive point in the 20 minutes and 40 seconds prior to daO$U's last possession with 4:27 remaining (20 minutes and 40 seconds was 82 percent of the second half to that point - i.e., 25 minutes and 33 seconds of the second half had already been played when daO$U took the KO after PSU's TD to take the lead 24-21). IOW, PSU stopping daO$U cold offensively was merely a continuation of the 20 minute and 40 second daO$U offensive scoring futility against PSU in the 2H of the game, not a "change in momentum" defensively for PSU contrary to your assertion - daO$U failed to score an offensive point for the final 25 minutes and 10 seconds of the 30 minute 2H of the game despite having the 5 of their 7 2H possessions during this span!!! Hardly sounds like some major change of momentum and fortune for PSU's defense during this last daO$U's....it was merely a continuation of the defensive results, and offensive futility, PSU and daO$U were recording respectively for the entire half.

 

[22buck]

Yea, all except for the fact that two-thirds, 4 of the 6, sacks recorded by PSU took place prior to the last drive AND PSU had held daO$U scoreless for the entire 20 minutes and 40 seconds prior to the last drive as well... Hardly a "change in momentum" defensively when daO$U's offense had scored a grand total of 7 points in the 2nd half of the game and hadn't scored an offensive point in the 20 minutes and 40 seconds prior to daO$U's last possession with 4:27 remaining (20 minutes and 40 seconds was 82 percent of the second half to that point - i.e., 25 minutes and 33 seconds of the second half had already been played when daO$U took the KO after PSU's TD to take the lead 24-21). IOW, PSU stopping daO$U cold offensively was merely a continuation of the 20 minute and 40 second daO$U offensive scoring futility against PSU in the 2H of the game, not a "change in momentum" defensively for PSU contrary to your assertion - daO$U failed to score an offensive point for the final 25 minutes and 10 seconds of the 30 minute 2H of the game despite having the 5 of their 7 2H possessions during this span!!! Hardly sounds like some major change of momentum and fortune for PSU's defense during this last daO$U's....it was merely a continuation of the defensive results, and offensive futility, PSU and daO$U were recording respectively for the entire half.

You should be feeling quite certain that PSU will beat OSU this year, then. OSU is losing far more talent off of last year's squad, including at least 3 1st rounders and 2 2nd rounders in the upcoming NFL draft.

So, would you like to wager on the outcome of this year's game? I'll take OSU and you can name the amount.

 

[mrtailgate]

Yea, all except for the fact that two-thirds, 4 of the 6, sacks recorded by PSU took place prior to the last drive AND PSU had held daO$U scoreless for the entire 20 minutes and 40 seconds prior to the last drive as well... Hardly a "change in momentum" defensively when daO$U's offense had scored a grand total of 7 points in the 2nd half of the game and hadn't scored an offensive point in the 20 minutes and 40 seconds prior to daO$U's last possession with 4:27 remaining (20 minutes and 40 seconds was 82 percent of the second half to that point - i.e., 25 minutes and 33 seconds of the second half had already been played when daO$U took the KO after PSU's TD to take the lead 24-21). IOW, PSU stopping daO$U cold offensively was merely a continuation of the 20 minute and 40 second daO$U offensive scoring futility against PSU in the 2H of the game, not a "change in momentum" defensively for PSU contrary to your assertion - daO$U failed to score an offensive point for the final 25 minutes and 10 seconds of the 30 minute 2H of the game despite having the 5 of their 7 2H possessions during this span!!! Hardly sounds like some major change of momentum and fortune for PSU's defense during this last daO$U's....it was merely a continuation of the defensive results, and offensive futility, PSU and daO$U were recording respectively for the entire half.

I'm not disagreeing with what you say but based on all you post, etc. Ohio State was WINNING before the block six. I'm talking about the immediate results FOLLOWING the block six. At that point, I would have been shocked to see OSU in Beaver Stadium score in the last 4 minutes or whatever. We are prob saying the same thing- the momentum had shifted and OSU was struggling for whatever time. I was just saying that following the block six, I would have been highly suspect of OSU having the chance to score at that time.

 

[mrtailgate]

You should be feeling quite certain that PSU will beat OSU this year, then. OSU is losing far more talent off of last year's squad, including at least 3 1st rounders and 2 2nd rounders in the upcoming NFL draft.

So, would you like to wager on the outcome of this year's game? I'll take OSU and you can name the amount.

I'll settle for a one point win as I'm sure you would. I think it's probably a dogfight. I know who you are pulling for, you know who I'm pulling for.

 

[Option Bob]

You should be feeling quite certain that PSU will beat OSU this year, then. OSU is losing far more talent off of last year's squad, including at least 3 1st rounders and 2 2nd rounders in the upcoming NFL draft.

So, would you like to wager on the outcome of this year's game? I'll take OSU and you can name the amount.

Oh, boy, here they come. Arrogant buckeye fans dash over to challenge a rival (am I allowed to use that word even though I'm not a skunk fan?) board where fans have the audacity, the nerve, nay ... the balls to dare think positively about their non-buckeye team.

Goodness gracious. No reasonable Penn State fan claims a win over OSU is "quite certain"; however, the enormous talent gap you think you have is actually not quite so large. I will openly admit that I think Urban Meyer is the best head coach in college football today and that his OSU program is on a level with only a few others, such as Alabama and Florida State ... and maybe now USC. Nonetheless, the talent level of players on OSU and PSU is more similar than your fan base might think.

Instead of coming over to the message board of the defending league champions to boast and brag, why don't you head on over to Clemson"s board and wager those guys on how many points ... Oh, wait ... Clemson beat you last year, too, didn't they? Well, then you can go over to the Oklahoma board.

 

[Franklin_Restores_TheTradition]

I'm not disagreeing with what you say but based on all you post, etc. Ohio State was WINNING before the block six. I'm talking about the immediate results FOLLOWING the block six. At that point, I would have been shocked to see OSU in Beaver Stadium score in the last 4 minutes or whatever. We are prob saying the same thing- the momentum had shifted and OSU was struggling for whatever time. I was just saying that following the block six, I would have been highly suspect of OSU having the chance to score at that time.

The blocked "kick 6" did not change momentum - PSU was losing 21-7 with 23 minutes and 31 seconds remaining in the game and had closed the gap to 21-17 at the time of the blocked FG. People like to ignore this FACT and the FACT that PSU had scored on each of its two prior possessions to the blocked FG and would have had the ball close to mid-field or even in daO$U territory even if the FG had not been returned for a TD! Your continued assertion that the blocked FG had this major impact on "momentum" in the game is a canard -- PSU DOMINATED the final 31 minutes of that game outscoring daO$U 24-9 over the that span, including outscoring daO$U 17-0 over the final 23.5 minutes of the game! The notion that this massive "change in momentum" occurred when PSU blocked the LONG daO$U FG try with almost 5 minutes remaining is a specious canard created by lying Herbie the Homer Hack who tried to claim, while lobbying for daO$U to be in the 4-team Invitational, that the FG block was the final play of the game and the absolute deciding play of the game -- again, this notion that daO$U was controlling the game at the time of the blocked FG, which happened with tons of time on the clock, is utter garbage and bull$hit made up by sorry@ss, classless, sore-loser Suckeye fans! PSU had daO$U's lead from 21-7 to 21-17 in the 20 minute span prior to the blocked FG AND PSU would have had the ball in great field position (probably in Suckeye territory given the ball went straight backward) with tons of time on the clock even if they hadn't run it back for a TD!

Again, complete nonsense that the run-back of the kick is what allowed PSU to win -- PSU dominated that entire 2nd Half and was winning that game whether the blocked kick was run back for a TD or not, especially given that they had scored on the prior two consecutive possessions and would have had the ball in Suckeye territory!

 

[polecat]

O$U was just over confident since they saw what Michigan did to PSU.

 

[Franklin_Restores_TheTradition]

O$U was just over confident since they saw what Michigan did to PSU.

Good one, but you aren't troll though, right??? Little confused as to why daO$U thought they would be playing PSU at the b1g shithouse rather than Beaver Stadium? BTW, didn't scUM lose TWICE on the road last year - 2 of their last 3 games - with one of the loses coming to a crappy Iowa team that PSU had absolutely destroyed a couple weeks prior???

 

[22buck]

Oh, boy, here they come. Arrogant buckeye fans dash over to challenge a rival (am I allowed to use that word even though I'm not a skunk fan?) board where fans have the audacity, the nerve, nay ... the balls to dare think positively about their non-buckeye team.

Goodness gracious. No reasonable Penn State fan claims a win over OSU is "quite certain"; however, the enormous talent gap you think you have is actually not quite so large. I will openly admit that I think Urban Meyer is the best head coach in college football today and that his OSU program is on a level with only a few others, such as Alabama and Florida State ... and maybe now USC. Nonetheless, the talent level of players on OSU and PSU is more similar than your fan base might think.

Instead of coming over to the message board of the defending league champions to boast and brag, why don't you head on over to Clemson"s board and wager those guys on how many points ... Oh, wait ... Clemson beat you last year, too, didn't they? Well, then you can go over to the Oklahoma board.

Actually, I meant to point out that there were some things in PSU's favor in that game. And the situation will be reversed this year.

OSU had back to back night road games against Wisconsin and PSU. The Wisconsin game was very physical (as usual) and went to overtime. OSU's players did not get back to their dorms/apartments in Columbus until around 5am Sunday and hadn't slept. The coaches gave them Sunday off even though it meant losing a day of preparation. PSU had a bye and 2 weeks to prepare (Wiscy also had a bye before OSU).

This year OSU has 2 weeks to prepare for PSU in what will likely be a night game in Columbus. And while PSU plays at home the week before, it should be a reasonably tough game against Michigan. Another similarity is OSU will be replacing a poor performing offensive coordinator with a leading edge guy, just as PSU did last year. I think PSU has a very good team and I think Barkley is the best RB in the country, hands down. But I would expect you'll get OSU's best shot in the game this year.

 

[NewEra 2014]

Actually, I meant to point out that there were some things in PSU's favor in that game. And the situation will be reversed this year.

OSU had back to back night road games against Wisconsin and PSU. The Wisconsin game was very physical (as usual) and went to overtime. OSU's players did not get back to their dorms/apartments in Columbus until around 5am Sunday and hadn't slept. The coaches gave them Sunday off even though it meant losing a day of preparation. PSU had a bye and 2 weeks to prepare (Wiscy also had a bye before OSU).

This year OSU has 2 weeks to prepare for PSU in what will likely be a night game in Columbus. And while PSU plays at home the week before, it should be a reasonably tough game against Michigan.

22buck, I have to agree with you that this year's OSU game sets up really well for OSU. This is the kind of scheduling that did not occur when Penn State was an independent. We used to have 3 or 4 big games each season, but they were spread out over the season and gave us a chance to prepare properly for each major challenge.

The other wildcard is the night game, as you mentioned. Night games are emotionally and physically draining, no question about it. Luckily, the game against Michigan is at least a home game for us. However, the next week after playing at OSU, Penn State plays at Michigan State.

It is highly unlikely that Penn State wins those three games in a row. But if they do, it will be a signal that this team is truly championship caliber.

 

[Option Bob]

Actually, I meant to point out that there were some things in PSU's favor in that game. And the situation will be reversed this year.

OSU had back to back night road games against Wisconsin and PSU. The Wisconsin game was very physical (as usual) and went to overtime. OSU's players did not get back to their dorms/apartments in Columbus until around 5am Sunday and hadn't slept. The coaches gave them Sunday off even though it meant losing a day of preparation. PSU had a bye and 2 weeks to prepare (Wiscy also had a bye before OSU).

This year OSU has 2 weeks to prepare for PSU in what will likely be a night game in Columbus. And while PSU plays at home the week before, it should be a reasonably tough game against Michigan. Another similarity is OSU will be replacing a poor performing offensive coordinator with a leading edge guy, just as PSU did last year. I think PSU has a very good team and I think Barkley is the best RB in the country, hands down. But I would expect you'll get OSU's best shot in the game this year.

22buck, your response was very reasonable and free of the smugness so often accompanying posts from your fellow buckeyes. Yes, Penn State had a bye week before playing OSU, but there are so many factors to such open Saturdays (injuries, last opponent, next opponent, + or - on momentum going into the bye, etc) that I am not sure the advantage is huge enough to diminish a great team effort by the Nittany Lions.

Perhaps when a program is so successful and loses so seldom like yours, fans look for possible reasons for such an upset. Finding them can be challenging, so we Penn State fans must listen to talk of "a fluke win," "bye week," or some other hypothetical miraculous event that could have caused the Mighty Buckeyes to strike out. Would you have liked to see Oklahoma fans posting on your board about how lucky or "flukey" your win over the Sooners was? Of course not.

I think Urban Meyer and squad gave Penn State their "best shot" a year ago ... just as they will do in 2017. Meyer knows talent when he sees it, and he knows the skill level of the men dressed in Thrilla Vanilla across the field. Penn State has lost games on "pick 6's" to your team, yet neither Herbstreit nor the media called such good defensive plays "flukes." We fans tire of hearing such nonsense.

OSU will be favored as always, and I look for a competitive game. I hope for 0 injuries and 0 "controversial" calls ... just tee it up and fight it out. Both teams will give it their "best shot."

 

[Option Bob]

22buck, I have to agree with you that this year's OSU game sets up really well for OSU. This is the kind of scheduling that did not occur when Penn State was an independent. We used to have 3 or 4 big games each season, but they were spread out over the season and gave us a chance to prepare properly for each major challenge.

The other wildcard is the night game, as you mentioned. Night games are emotionally and physically draining, no question about it. Luckily, the game against Michigan is at least a home game for us. However, the next week after playing at OSU, Penn State plays at Michigan State.

It is highly unlikely that Penn State wins those three games in a row. But if they do, it will be a signal that this team is truly championship caliber.

You must be from a really new era, because Penn State did not always have just "3 or 4 big games spread out over the season"; here are some examples from the "not that old era"to dispel yet another Big Ten myth [I'm using seasons in which PSU was a contender rather than a weekly underdog]:

1980 @Texas A&M, Nebraska, @Missouri, @Maryland on consecutive weeks
1981 @NC State, Alabama, Notre Dame, @Pitt on consecutive weeks
1982 Nebraska, @Alabama on consecutive weeks, then NC State, @Notre Dame, Pittsburgh on consecutive weeks
1986 @Alabama, @West Va, Maryland, @Notre Dame, Pittsburgh on consecutive weeks

Let's move to the Big Ten era:
1993 USC, @Iowa on consecutive weeks, then Michigan, @Ohio State, #13 Indiana [bye after Michigan]
1994 @Minnesota, USC, Iowa on consecutive weeks, then once again drawing the 2 darlings back-to-back
1999 @Iowa, Ohio State, @ #16 Purdue on consecutive weeks then Minnesota, Michigan, @ #15 MSU on consecutive weeks
2005 once again drew the 2 darlings back-to-back on consecutive weeks
2008 once again drew the 2 darlings back-to-back on consecutive weeks

I didn't go back to the 60s or 70s to avoid getting into that ridiculous debate about Eastern teams again. But I do believe the above schedules show that Penn State was not a recipient of "favorable schedules" as a factor in its success.

 

[Franklin_Restores_TheTradition]

22buck, your response was very reasonable and free of the smugness so often accompanying posts from your fellow buckeyes. Yes, Penn State had a bye week before playing OSU, but there are so many factors to such open Saturdays (injuries, last opponent, next opponent, + or - on momentum going into the bye, etc) that I am not sure the advantage is huge enough to diminish a great team effort by the Nittany Lions.

Perhaps when a program is so successful and loses so seldom like yours, fans look for possible reasons for such an upset. Finding them can be challenging, so we Penn State fans must listen to talk of "a fluke win," "bye week," or some other hypothetical miraculous event that could have caused the Mighty Buckeyes to strike out. Would you have liked to see Oklahoma fans posting on your board about how lucky or "flukey" your win over the Sooners was? Of course not.

I think Urban Meyer and squad gave Penn State their "best shot" a year ago ... just as they will do in 2017. Meyer knows talent when he sees it, and he knows the skill level of the men dressed in Thrilla Vanilla across the field. Penn State has lost games on "pick 6's" to your team, yet neither Herbstreit nor the media called such good defensive plays "flukes." We fans tire of hearing such nonsense.

OSU will be favored as always, and I look for a competitive game. I hope for 0 injuries and 0 "controversial" calls ... just tee it up and fight it out. Both teams will give it their "best shot."

I do give props to Urban Myer regarding his comments after that game - he is far classier, and was more of a "man", in defeat than the daO$U classless fans, including Herbie the Homer. When asked after the game why his team lost at the post-game Press Conference, he "manned-up" and answered the question in a classy fashion typical of a true football coach and basically said -- Huh? Did you watch the game? Why did they beat us? Because they won the battle in the trenches on both sides of the ball, but especially along the Defensive Line versus our OL - no team has put a whopping on our OL like that since I've been here and we have a pretty good OL. Their DL and Front-7 beat us every which way possible along the OL and again, I've never seen a team beat us up front like that since I've been here and we've had some pretty good teams here since I've been here including an NC team and this team stacks up with them, but they just beat us and beat us badly up front.

Again, I've never been a big Myer fan, but I give him credit for his statements after the PSU game - he made no excuses for the loss and said that he told his team that this was going to be a very difficult game and as tough a place to play as you will find (i.e., he knows they were beat in 2014 as well, but for the cheating B1G officials), but at the end of the day he said his team was ready to play, he had told them it was going to be a very tough environment....but they just got BEAT and there is no other way to put it! Give Urbs high praise for his comments and being classy in defeat (i.e., acknowledging the other parties efforts and accomplishments rather than making excuses), which is one of the hardest things to do in sport and 10x harder than being classy in victory!

 

[NewEra 2014]

You must be from a really new era, because Penn State did not always have just "3 or 4 big games spread out over the season"; here are some examples from the "not that old era"to dispel yet another Big Ten myth [I'm using seasons in which PSU was a contender rather than a weekly underdog]:

1980 @Texas A&M, Nebraska, @Missouri, @Maryland on consecutive weeks
1981 @NC State, Alabama, Notre Dame, @Pitt on consecutive weeks
1982 Nebraska, @Alabama on consecutive weeks, then NC State, @Notre Dame, Pittsburgh on consecutive weeks
1986 @Alabama, @West Va, Maryland, @Notre Dame, Pittsburgh on consecutive weeks

Well, I began following Penn State football in the mid-1980's. Just using your 1986 example, Alabama was a very big road win as I recall. WVU was 4-7 that year. MD was 5-5-1, ND was 5-6 and Pitt was 5-5-1. The early 80's schedules were better, I will grant you that.

 

[Cosmos]

Just to highlight some of the lazy idiocy you see from "experts":

It doesn't matter who you RECRUIT......it matters who is ON THE TEAM.


Whether or not OSU brought in more highly talented recruits or not (and one would reasonably conclude that they did), using that to determine that they have a more talented group of players in 2017 just shows how lazy the "experts" (and their followers) are:

OSU will go into 2017 WITHOUT, due to early-NFL, injuries, or whatever........ all of the following recruits from 2014-2017 - who could have been part of their 2017 squad:

T Gerald / J Dean / Schmidt / Gibson / McMillan / M Jones / Trout / Berger / Samuels / N Brown / Lattimore

ALL 11 where "4 Star" or better recruits .....

Along with "3 Star" recruits Hooker / Felder / Stump / Jurkovic / Collier

That's a lot of "recruiting talent" over the last 4 years that will NOT be on the field for the 2017 Buckeyes.


PSU - on the other hand - will be without the following 2014-2017 recruits:

Godwin, M O'Conner, and K Carter (4 star recruits)
and Brosnan, Sorrell, Beh, White, Cooper, Worley, and Reeder.



They still have a boatload of talented kids:
But "what they brought in" doesn't help if it ain't no longer there

A few points then I will stifle.

First, anyone who wouldn't admit the raw talent gap between tOSU vs. PSU and USC vs. PSU looks through blue-colored glasses. It's there. It slaps the unbiased observer in the face. They are bigger and faster across-the-board. Point being, we haven't turned the corner on recruiting due to "crippling sanctions." That makes what the coaches did all the more remarkable.

Second, football is a team sport. You want people you can coalesce as a group. That is why sometimes the team having less raw talent wins. Upsets happen. I feel the need to state the obvious in this regard.

Third, a team's dynamic changes year over year based on the coaching carousel. A change in a key assistant changes a team's dynamic. Case in point, Joe Moorehead. Few here can argue we did not reap said benefit. Another example is Kevin Wilson. His out-manned IU team nearly took out Utah. And so a team's prospects can change significantly year over year. Watch out. I'm just sayin.

Fourth, the less depth you have the more susceptible you are to 'crash and burn'. Take for example if a certain running back were to get injured. Again, I'm just sayin.

Some of younz guys should temper your enthusiasm over a possible championship run.
I thank you. Have a blessed day.

 

[dawgduice]

No question, in my mind, that OSU has better NFL ready talent. BUT, PSU has talent that their additional experience (maturity) makes them pretty close. OSU will lose quite a few players EARLY to the NFL every year (it's why they go to OSU in the first place - sort of like Kentucky BB). Hence OSU will generally be playing with younger players every year. PSU should be playing with more mature (longer to develop and may not be NFL).
A good example in BB would be Villanova vs Kentucky. I hope the same will apply in the long run for PSU vs OSU football

 

[Howie'81]

You should be feeling quite certain that PSU will beat OSU this year, then. OSU is losing far more talent off of last year's squad, including at least 3 1st rounders and 2 2nd rounders in the upcoming NFL draft.

So, would you like to wager on the outcome of this year's game? I'll take OSU and you can name the amount.

Did you watch the Rose Bowl? Yeah, PSU lost, but played an epic game. OSU will be a slight favorite, but PSU will not be intimidated in the least and WILL come to play. And oh, by the way, the best player on the field will be in blue and white, barring injury.

 

[Al_Tuna]

The sooner September gets here, the better.

 

[BBG65]

Wrong - citing high end recruits that have proven nothing on a DIA college football field does not equate to "talent" as it is completely unproven at the collegiate level. If anything it is "proven high school talent" which means jack $hit at the DIA level as the percentage of "proven high school talents" that fail to ever even start at the collegiate level is quite high. In terms of "proven" top-end collegiate talent RETURNING for 2017, it is absurd to say anyone has more than PSU which is returning virtually all of their 2-Deep depth chart intact.

The quality and depth of Ohio State's talent has been proven excellent season after excellent season. Many schools would be envious of their down years. The NFL draft also proves the recruiting rankings of those Ohio State players to be pretty accurate. The good news is that we're approaching that level. And obviously, age, experience and coaching are also factors, but without that talent resulting from great recruiting, it is much harder to excel.

 

[WPB_lion]

Just to highlight some of the lazy idiocy you see from "experts":

It doesn't matter who you RECRUIT......it matters who is ON THE TEAM.


Whether or not OSU brought in more highly talented recruits or not (and one would reasonably conclude that they did), using that to determine that they have a more talented group of players in 2017 just shows how lazy the "experts" (and their followers) are:

OSU will go into 2017 WITHOUT, due to early-NFL, injuries, or whatever........ all of the following recruits from 2014-2017 - who could have been part of their 2017 squad:

T Gerald / J Dean / Schmidt / Gibson / McMillan / M Jones / Trout / Berger / Samuels / N Brown / Lattimore

ALL 11 where "4 Star" or better recruits .....

Along with "3 Star" recruits Hooker / Felder / Stump / Jurkovic / Collier

That's a lot of "recruiting talent" over the last 4 years that will NOT be on the field for the 2017 Buckeyes.


PSU - on the other hand - will be without the following 2014-2017 recruits:

Godwin, M O'Conner, and K Carter (4 star recruits)
and Brosnan, Sorrell, Beh, White, Cooper, Worley, and Reeder.



They still have a boatload of talented kids:
But "what they brought in" doesn't help if it ain't no longer there

I think you are failing to see that OSU is consistently bringing in the same number of 4* and 5* recruits right behind these players. The fact that more OSU's players may be NFL ready after 3 years allows them to consistently bring in larger classes than teams such as PSU and they are able to fill these open slots with high end 4* and 5* players. The fact of the matter is that over the last 15 years, the players on OSU's team have generally been more talented than the players on PSU's team and more talented than almost any other team in the country not named Alabama. Franklin is starting to turn the tide for PSU.