State Appropriations: Big Ten Universities
- Thread starter stormingnorm
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One question do the number of students only include main campus or do they also include the branch campuses?
The definitive data..... for any non-idiots.
The campus enrollment number for PSU is only University Park campus. Barry will have to answer if the appropriation number is only for University Park as well.
I think you are a guy of above average intelligence who thinks he is a genius. That is not a good combination for getting anything done, especially when it involves doing anything that involves human interaction.
I'm not wrong. PSU's state appropriation is half a billion dollars less than Rutgers (Rutgers???!!!!) That's a problem. Get more money from Harrisburg and we aren't having this discussion.
Why measure the state appropriations against the number of in state students? Don’t out of state students also benefit from these funds? When they cut the grass on the mall do they cut 100% or 60% of it? Same with all university expenditures. These funds go to support all of the students not just in state. Your metric is all wrong. The important number is the total appropriations per total enrollment where PSU is at the bottom.
And if the state appropriations includes the branch campuses that would lower the state appropriation per student below the average
Because in the case of the state-related universities, the quid-pro-quo is that the state gives the school money and the school provides a tuition discount to in-state residents. Are you suggesting that a state should subsidize the tuition of out-of-state attendees?
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anon_xdc8rmuek44eq
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No, but interesting to see PSU has the lowest percentage of in-state students (60.6%) outside of Michigan (which I get) and Iowa.
And, yet, it still has the highest net in-state tuition by a significant margin. BTW, the low percentage of in-state students at Michigan has been a sore point with the state legislature for a long time.
And they need to do this why? PSU is not a state agency. All of the other universities in the table are.
PA should require PSU to use all of the appropriation to subsidize in state students. If PSU chooses to take more out of state students, then that would reduce the amount every PA kid has to pay (assuming the total enrollment remains flat).
Where does the $298 million figure come from? I can't find that anywhere. I've seen higher numbers (that included other appropriations to PSU from PA) and lower (which is only the amount supposed to be for students, not research, etc.).
One of its missions is to provide an affordable education to PA residents. That's largely why it receives an appropriation from Harrisburg.
I meant the $298 million should literally offset every PA kid's cost. Meaning by your table, a PA kid should pay $10,436 per year less than a kid from New Jersey (give or take considering summer sessions, etc.). I didn't mean it the way you read it.
For the $0.03 it's worth, part of the appropriation is for the operation of the Ag Extension offices and other similar agencies throughout the state. Don't know how the numbers divvy up or how they arrive at them. Probably take last year's number, haggle over a percentage that has little or no meaning, and voila. No different that the way government operates anywhere else.
The amount charged for in state vs out of state is arbitrary. It’s all based on what the market will bear, not based on the actual cost per in or out of state student which is very difficult to calculate. Some states used to have a rule where the out of state would be 150% of the in state or some such formula but those have gone by the wayside. The total appropriation goes into the operating funds budget and whether it’s spent for in state or out of state students is irrelevant. And what portion is left for the students to pay as tuition is just a factor or what they are willing to pay. If PSU wanted to lower the tuition of instate students they could do so merely by charging more for out of state kids, or vice versa. So the real issue is the total appropriation amount as it’s not tied to the cost of instate students’ education.
Glad you think that way. I'm sure that Barron & Co think the same way. Unfortunately, the people who write the checks in Harrisburg think differently. And isn't it part of Barron's job to convince them to appropriate more money? Hard to accomplish that when you talk down to them.
Take that attitude to the state legislature and see if they'll give you more money. Spanier did it and look at where it got him.
These are the facts. I’m not expressing an opinion or communicating any attitude about what is right or wrong. Why do you assume I am? It’s just the way it works.
Thay probably arrive at administrative costs arbitrarily, too. Barron's salary? Not so arbitrary. Maybe it should be.
Yo, dipshit, at PSU costs can be arbitrary. Dambly arbitrarily decides that PSU will pay $xxmillion for a construction project and PSU pays it.
And prices aren't arbitrary either, not if your organization expects to remain in business.
Since I'm on ignore, wondering if anyone can tell me if Nitwit was conceived via anal sex since he's not around to answer directly.
Yet you assume that entire $298 million is for main campus. If you use the total under graduate enrollment of 54,522. That brings the per student funding down to a little of $5,500. Half of the amount of Penn State’s peer schools.FWIW:
This is a snippet from last year's PSU financial statement (which is the most obtuse and non-clarifying statement you will find for any University
Under "Operating Revenues (which they actually are not
Commonwealth of Pennsylvania:
Appropriations
298,312 298,312
Special contracts
70,800 70,800
Department of General Services projects
47,809 47,809
If you use the numbers from the house bill that approved the appropriations Penn State received $237,349,000 in general support for all campuses except Penn Tech for 2018-2019 school year. The undergraduate enrollment in state enrollment at all campuses except Penn Tech was 49,638. Assuming every penny went to undergraduate enrollment it works out to be $4,782 per student. That is half of the amount you claim.
https://budget.psu.edu/botjuly/boarddocuments 18-19/web state appropriations- details 1855 - present.xlsx
Like a true intellectual you resort to name calling instead of actually debating. I presented data with links that contradict the numbers you used. If you look at your table you neglected to link Penn State numbers you choose that show that the $298 million was appropriated solely for main campus.
It would be interesting to see where PA stands in terms of number of institutions and/or number of students receiving state aid compared to other states. There’s money allocated to Penn St, Pitt, Temple and Lincoln universities which (I assume) also includes the 27 (?) branch campuses of Pitt and Penn St. Theres also the 14 universities of the state system (Edinboro, Shippensburg, Bloomsburg, etc.) Am I missing any others?
The definitive data..... for any non-idiots.
I must be a complete idiot or the chart is utterly useless ...it’s incomprehensible to me. When I divide total appropriation by in state enrollment, the numbers are wildly different than the “state appropriation per in state student” column. Take Illinois for example, it looks like the appropriation per student should be $13.8k. Indiana looks like it should be $19.2k. However, PSUs numbers tie out.
Makes sense, thank you. Maybe another detail I didn’t follow, why did you assume all PSU appropriations were going only to UP?
Nebraska has 20K fewer students than PSU yet their state leg. appropriates $260M more than the PA leg. That is a travesty.
To summarize, Barry cooked up a spreadsheet that arbitrarily excludes HALF of Penn State’s students in his calculation for appropriation per student.
Why should state taxpayers invest more in an institution that has mismanaged money so badly?
I don't live in PA, so I don't get a vote. If taxpayers don't want to elect representatives who want to fund PA, that is their right.
But then those same people shouldn't complain about how expensive PSU is, especially when you compare PA's contribution to other Big10 states.
You are really bad at math. I'm glad you didn't get elected to the BOT. You would have fit right in.
From your original post in this thread:
PSU’s State Appropriation = $298,000,000
Rutgers’ State Appropriation = $814,000,000
I know you are bad at math, but bear with me here:
814,000,0000-298,000,000 = $516,000,0000
That’s 515 million dollars, which is half a billion dollars.
I really hope you don’t have a STEM degree (or accounting for that matter) from PSU.
SMFH.
PSU’s State Appropriation = $298,000,000
Rutgers’ State Appropriation = $814,000,000
I know you are bad at math, but bear with me here:
814,000,0000-298,000,000 = $516,000,0000
That’s 515 million dollars, which is half a billion dollars.
I really hope you don’t have a STEM degree (or accounting for that matter) from PSU.
SMFH.
Go eff yourself.
The footnote explains that the appropriations numbers are adjusted (pro-rated) based on the number of students per branch campus, because those schools don't report on a campus by campus basis.
So if I am wrong, then that means the table is wrong. The table that YOU, oh Titan of Stoopidity, provided. Don't blame me if your data is bad.
Piss off.
StorminNorman: again, thank you very, very much for this factual information. Hopefully, the readers understand than the school we love has major, major problems with its cost competitiveness, and that trying to sale a decent product at a premium price is not a winning strategy.
Wonderful data! Thanks.
Wonderful data! Thanks.
