Temple's Offensive Line

[PSU1983PHAN]

LT: Dion Dawkins NR http://247sports.com/Player/Dion-Dawkins-27458?Institution=5482
LG: Shahbaz Ahmed 2* http://247sports.com/Player/Shahbaz-Ahmed-13420
C: Kyle Friend 2* http://247sports.com/Player/Kyle-Friend-15130
RG: Brian Carter NR http://247sports.com/Player/Brian-Carter-14995
RT: Leon Johnson NR http://247sports.com/Player/Leon-Johnson-28977

So the Temple O-Line, which held us to 2 sacks, is made up of 3 unrated and 2-2 star players. I don't want to hear this sanctions/lack of talent CRAP. We have much more talent on our o-line. Our system is terrible and our players aren't being coached up. They look confused, they miss assignments, and the communication is downright awful.

 

[PSU1983PHAN]

Forgot to add, but Hand should be on the hot seat. I know he's a fan fave because of his twitter stuff, but he's not getting it done when it comes to coaching up his linemen. They somehow look WORSE This year, and I didn't think that was possible.

 

[mmp121]

LT: Dion Dawkins NR http://247sports.com/Player/Dion-Dawkins-27458?Institution=5482
LG: Shahbaz Ahmed 2* http://247sports.com/Player/Shahbaz-Ahmed-13420
C: Kyle Friend 2* http://247sports.com/Player/Kyle-Friend-15130
RG: Brian Carter NR http://247sports.com/Player/Brian-Carter-14995
RT: Leon Johnson NR http://247sports.com/Player/Leon-Johnson-28977

So the Temple O-Line, which held us to 2 sacks, is made up of 3 unrated and 2-2 star players. I don't want to hear this sanctions/lack of talent CRAP. We have much more talent on our o-line. Our system is terrible and our players aren't being coached up. They look confused, they miss assignments, and the communication is downright awful.

Not trying to defend our craptastic offensive performance last week, but note that Temple's 5 starters are all O-line. Two of our 5 starters were DL up until ~1.5 years ago when they were converted to OL.

Now, before someone goes there, I am fully aware that tO$U's starting O-line also contains some converts from DL.

I personally feel at this point our OL should be in sync, and no longer learning. There should be very little that is 'new'. By now it should be more of just reacting, and not thinking for the 4 starters from last year.

I feel that the "communications" issues are just fluff. When lining up, you point to the guy you are gonna clobber. So long as you and the guy next to you are not pointing at the same guy, nothing more needs to be said. Everything else comes down to execution, and desire to put the guy opposite you on his back.

 

[PSU1983PHAN]

Not trying to defend our craptastic offensive performance last week, but note that Temple's 5 starters are all O-line. Two of our 5 starters were DL up until ~1.5 years ago when they were converted to OL.

Now, before someone goes there, I am fully aware that tO$U's starting O-line also contains some converts from DL.

I personally feel at this point our OL should be in sync, and no longer learning. There should be very little that is 'new'. By now it should be more of just reacting, and not thinking for the 4 starters from last year.

I feel that the "communications" issues are just fluff. When lining up, you point to the guy you are gonna clobber. So long as you and the guy next to you are not pointing at the same guy, nothing more needs to be said. Everything else comes down to execution, and desire to put the guy opposite you on his back.

If that's the case, why are so many assignments missed? It's not always that the O-Line is getting manhandled, but they keep missing blocks and blowing assignments. Time and time again you see pass rushers get through without so much as being touched. If Temple is able to make chicken salad out of chicken S%@%, we should be able to make chicken salad out of freaking chicken.

 

[ALion4Life]

LT: Dion Dawkins NR http://247sports.com/Player/Dion-Dawkins-27458?Institution=5482
LG: Shahbaz Ahmed 2* http://247sports.com/Player/Shahbaz-Ahmed-13420
C: Kyle Friend 2* http://247sports.com/Player/Kyle-Friend-15130
RG: Brian Carter NR http://247sports.com/Player/Brian-Carter-14995
RT: Leon Johnson NR http://247sports.com/Player/Leon-Johnson-28977

So the Temple O-Line, which held us to 2 sacks, is made up of 3 unrated and 2-2 star players. I don't want to hear this sanctions/lack of talent CRAP. We have much more talent on our o-line. Our system is terrible and our players aren't being coached up. They look confused, they miss assignments, and the communication is downright awful.

I posted the same think on Saturday after the game. You can make the same statements about their defense. Their DL, LB and secondary are mostly 2* players that made our offense look like a bunch of high school players and that may be giving the offense too much credit.

 

[PSU1983PHAN]

I posted the same think on Saturday after the game. You can make the same statements about their defense. Their DL, LB and secondary are mostly 2* players that made our offense look like a bunch of high school players and that may be giving the offense too much credit.

But... But... Sanctions, right???

 

[hagberg]

Not trying to defend our craptastic offensive performance last week, but note that Temple's 5 starters are all O-line. Two of our 5 starters were DL up until ~1.5 years ago when they were converted to OL.

Now, before someone goes there, I am fully aware that tO$U's starting O-line also contains some converts from DL.

I personally feel at this point our OL should be in sync, and no longer learning. There should be very little that is 'new'. By now it should be more of just reacting, and not thinking for the 4 starters from last year.

I feel that the "communications" issues are just fluff. When lining up, you point to the guy you are gonna clobber. So long as you and the guy next to you are not pointing at the same guy, nothing more needs to be said. Everything else comes down to execution, and desire to put the guy opposite you on his back.

Only one starter, Gaia, was moved over from the defense, and he was a starter last year as well. And if you look back at class rankings, he earned his three stars as a HS OL, not DL. Nelson, Mangiro, Mahon and Palmer have always been considered OL, so that "switched from defense" argument holds no water.

As you pointed out, with 3.5 returning starters on the OL, it should have gelled long ago, even with a new LT.

 

[Cletus11]

Exactly, having issues blocking the OSU Dline that has several future NFL starters on it is one thing. Giving up 10 sacks to Temple is a completely different story. I will bet anybody any amount of money that Temple doesn't get more than 6 sacks against anybody the rest of the year. I think the major issue is that the PSU Oline is thinking way to much and it is greatly slowing down their reaction time. Those guys on the PSU Oline are not 5 true freshman walk-ons that weight 265 pounds and are just way overmatched. All these guys are plenty big and strong and have been playing Oline for at least 2 years previous. For them to give up so many sacks tells me that they really just do not know who to block.

 

[jlariv9]

Franklin sucks...end of story

 

[BBrown]

Exactly, having issues blocking the OSU Dline that has several future NFL starters on it is one thing. Giving up 10 sacks to Temple is a completely different story. I will bet anybody any amount of money that Temple doesn't get more than 6 sacks against anybody the rest of the year. I think the major issue is that the PSU Oline is thinking way to much and it is greatly slowing down their reaction time. Those guys on the PSU Oline are not 5 true freshman walk-ons that weight 265 pounds and are just way overmatched. All these guys are plenty big and strong and have been playing Oline for at least 2 years previous. For them to give up so many sacks tells me that they really just do not know who to block.

JMO but thats it. I don't think its lack of talent (ok maybe some) or strength. I just think they (the coaches) are making this much harder than it needs to be. IIRC someone said they have 16 different blocking assignments. According to some in the "know" thats ridiculous.

 

[beaced]

Not trying to defend our craptastic offensive performance last week, but note that Temple's 5 starters are all O-line. Two of our 5 starters were DL up until ~1.5 years ago when they were converted to OL.

Now, before someone goes there, I am fully aware that tO$U's starting O-line also contains some converts from DL.

I personally feel at this point our OL should be in sync, and no longer learning. There should be very little that is 'new'. By now it should be more of just reacting, and not thinking for the 4 starters from last year.

I feel that the "communications" issues are just fluff. When lining up, you point to the guy you are gonna clobber. So long as you and the guy next to you are not pointing at the same guy, nothing more needs to be said. Everything else comes down to execution, and desire to put the guy opposite you on his back.

you point and they stunt. Screws things up. A well coached O line adjusts and makes their blocks.RB's have to do their share. It could be all on the coaching.

 

[Ranger Dan]

I think the OL should be better than they are, which is on them individually but more so on Hand and CJF.

I think Hack should be better at throwing the ball away or evading sacks, but this is also on Rahne and CJF.

I think the offense being installed is a round hole and Hack is a square peg. This is more of an issue than anything else. I think this is Donovan and CJF.

Lots of blame to go around...

 

[dawgduice]

Well, to be candid, one more like this and Franklin best FIRE his OC and the OL coach. If you are a CEO type head coach you best hire the RIGHT people. Loyalty is one thing but a true leader makes changes. Hell, even Joe brought in Galen Hall to "manage" Jay.

 

[JayWye]

LT: Dion Dawkins NR http://247sports.com/Player/Dion-Dawkins-27458?Institution=5482
LG: Shahbaz Ahmed 2* http://247sports.com/Player/Shahbaz-Ahmed-13420
C: Kyle Friend 2* http://247sports.com/Player/Kyle-Friend-15130
RG: Brian Carter NR http://247sports.com/Player/Brian-Carter-14995
RT: Leon Johnson NR http://247sports.com/Player/Leon-Johnson-28977

So the Temple O-Line, which held us to 2 sacks, is made up of 3 unrated and 2-2 star players. I don't want to hear this sanctions/lack of talent CRAP. We have much more talent on our o-line. Our system is terrible and our players aren't being coached up. They look confused, they miss assignments, and the communication is downright awful.

Before we call out the firing squad, let's see what happens this week when Palmer is (presumably) riding the pine. A crap LT can throw everything off along the OL...esp. when the QB's immobile.

 

[ellobo]

Not trying to defend our craptastic offensive performance last week, but note that Temple's 5 starters are all O-line. Two of our 5 starters were DL up until ~1.5 years ago when they were converted to OL.

Now, before someone goes there, I am fully aware that tO$U's starting O-line also contains some converts from DL.

I personally feel at this point our OL should be in sync, and no longer learning. There should be very little that is 'new'. By now it should be more of just reacting, and not thinking for the 4 starters from last year.

I feel that the "communications" issues are just fluff. When lining up, you point to the guy you are gonna clobber. So long as you and the guy next to you are not pointing at the same guy, nothing more needs to be said. Everything else comes down to execution, and desire to put the guy opposite you on his back.

In 1997 Michigan s OL situation was so dire (in part due to injuries) that they couldn't even field a starting 5 during spring ball (without using walk ons). Michigan ended up switching two dl s over. Both ended up in the NFL with one becoming a 7 time all pro and possible future hall of famer. Point is that you you recruit athletes and most of these jumbo guys are more than capable of playing either side of the ball. Sometimes which side they play is not even decided by which side they are projected to be better at but is a matter of preference and a decision made by the player (probably in hs).

With that said michigan is in a similar situation as you guys in that when looking at recruiting rankings and offers the OL should beway better than it is. However, the OL coach under Hoke was by far the worst position coach on that staff which is saying a lot because there weren't many good coaches on that staff. Now that we have a proven ol coach I expect it to get better but it hasn't been like just flipping a switch. What I saw in a first game was players that had fewer bad habits than they did the year before. And that's the thing...OL has the longest learning curve of any position with the possible exception being qb. All these guys come in with a boat load of bad habits learned in HS when they could dominate just because of size. It's not like a DL that can have one or two moves early in their career and not be a liability as they learn more while playing. People talk about an an OL gelling but that doesn't happen just by playing to together...it happens when you get 5 technicians (guys who have worked out their bad habits) playing together...that takes time.

 

[PSU1983PHAN]

In 1997 Michigan s OL situation was so dire (in part due to injuries) that they couldn't even field a starting 5 during spring ball (without using walk ons). Michigan ended up switching two dl s over. Both ended up in the NFL with one becoming a 7 time all pro and possible future hall of famer. Point is that you you recruit athletes and most of these jumbo guys are more than capable of playing either side of the ball. Sometimes which side they play is not even decided by which side they are projected to be better at but is a matter of preference and a decision made by the player (probably in hs).

With that said michigan is in a similar situation as you guys in that when looking at recruiting rankings and offers the OL should beway better than it is. However, the OL coach under Hoke was by far the worst position coach on that staff which is saying a lot because there weren't many good coaches on that staff. Now that we have a proven ol coach I expect it to get better but it hasn't been like just flipping a switch. What I saw in a first game was players that had fewer bad habits than they did the year before. And that's the thing...OL has the longest learning curve of any position with the possible exception being qb. All these guys come in with a boat load of bad habits learned in HS when they could dominate just because of size. It's not like a DL that can have one or two moves early in their career and not be a liability as they learn more while playing. People talk about an an OL gelling but that doesn't happen just by playing to together...it happens when you get 5 technicians (guys who have worked out their bad habits) playing together...that takes time.

Yeah, I would think most D-Lineman also played OL up until college...

 

[Cletus11]

Get over the Dline thing. These guys moved over 1.5 years ago. They had spring 2014 and the entire 2014 season plus spring 2015 and fall practice this year. That is way more than enough time to convert to an Olineman. That is not an excuse at all.

 

[ellobo]

Yeah, I would think most D-Lineman also played OL up until college...

Not only that but there is a somewhat long list of OLs that excelled in college and beyond that never played the position at all in HS....one position that comes to mind is TE where there are plenty of examples of kids who didn't stop growing who turned into athletic LTs.

In today's recruiting world I guess kids want somewhat of a guarantee of which position they'll play...or at least start out at. But it hasn't always been that way and I assume coaches play it that way because that's what you have to do to land these kids. But I know that most coaches approach it as if they recruiting athletes...that all other things being equal they prefer kids who can play either side of the ball and/or multiple positions. You can't always project how much a kid will or won't grow, sometimes you need to move guys around for depth reasons, sometimes a kid just turns out to be better in one place than another, etc. Players moving positions or sides of the ball is not a new thing...

 

[PSU1983PHAN]

Not only that but there is a somewhat long list of OLs that excelled in college and beyond that never played the position at all in HS....one position that comes to mind is TE where there are plenty of examples of kids who didn't stop growing who turned into athletic LTs.

In today's recruiting world I guess kids want somewhat of a guarantee of which position they'll play...or at least start out at. But it hasn't always been that way and I assume coaches play it that way because that's what you have to do to land these kids. But I know that most coaches approach it as if they recruiting athletes...that all other things being equal they prefer kids who can play either side of the ball and/or multiple positions. You can't always project how much a kid will or won't grow, sometimes you need to move guys around for depth reasons, sometimes a kid just turns out to be better in one place than another, etc. Players moving positions or sides of the ball is not a new thing...

Didn't Garry Gilliam go onto an NFL career after playing TE his whole career and switching to OT his senior year?

 

[rutgersdave]

In 1997 Michigan s OL situation was so dire (in part due to injuries) that they couldn't even field a starting 5 during spring ball (without using walk ons). Michigan ended up switching two dl s over. Both ended up in the NFL with one becoming a 7 time all pro and possible future hall of famer. Point is that you you recruit athletes and most of these jumbo guys are more than capable of playing either side of the ball. Sometimes which side they play is not even decided by which side they are projected to be better at but is a matter of preference and a decision made by the player (probably in hs).

With that said michigan is in a similar situation as you guys in that when looking at recruiting rankings and offers the OL should beway better than it is. However, the OL coach under Hoke was by far the worst position coach on that staff which is saying a lot because there weren't many good coaches on that staff. Now that we have a proven ol coach I expect it to get better but it hasn't been like just flipping a switch. What I saw in a first game was players that had fewer bad habits than they did the year before. And that's the thing...OL has the longest learning curve of any position with the possible exception being qb. All these guys come in with a boat load of bad habits learned in HS when they could dominate just because of size. It's not like a DL that can have one or two moves early in their career and not be a liability as they learn more while playing. People talk about an an OL gelling but that doesn't happen just by playing to together...it happens when you get 5 technicians (guys who have worked out their bad habits) playing together...that takes time.

I knew our offensive line is better now because in the past, against even the weaker teams we had penalties, off side and holding, that kept stopping our drives, on top of the sacks. The solution was wait 3 years for everyone to graduate and also for the offensive line coach as well as the offensive coordinator to be fired.

 

[blion72]

The discussion around the DEF is a little bit different. OUR DEF was hammering Temple until Wartman went down. Temple had one first down and were sitting inside their 10 yd line. At that point in the game, I expected PSU would hold Temple to 0 pts. However, that one injury changed our DEF completely, and when Bell our other top LB twisted his ankle there was no depth to cover for these two critical injuries. this added to the problem that Haley was already in street clothes that day.

Our OFF has one big problem.....and that is we have one of the top QBs in the country, and his style is a misfit for PSU staff right now. they need a mobile QB, and Hack's very presence is a problem. a mobile QB would cover for the problems we have around the OL. Since Hack is famous, and already had a good FR year, the current staff have to live with his lack of mobility in the overall system. They have no public way to bench Hack, even though that is what they need to do for their good. Had PSU recruited a 5* QB like Wimbush, then it would be politically okay to have this QB active in a game.

 

[ellobo]

Didn't Garry Gilliam go onto an NFL career after playing TE his whole career and switching to OT his senior year?

I'm a Michigan guy so I don't remember that...but probably the best example I can think of was robert gallery at Iowa...came in as a te...left as the #2 pick in the draft at OT...when I was a Michigan there was a kid Jon Jansen who came in as 215lb pass catching te...broke all his high school's receiving records sometimes lining up at wr....ended up being two time all b10 and had a 10 year nfl career

 

[malenko]

Not trying to defend our craptastic offensive performance last week, but note that Temple's 5 starters are all O-line. Two of our 5 starters were DL up until ~1.5 years ago when they were converted to OL.

Now, before someone goes there, I am fully aware that tO$U's starting O-line also contains some converts from DL.

I personally feel at this point our OL should be in sync, and no longer learning. There should be very little that is 'new'. By now it should be more of just reacting, and not thinking for the 4 starters from last year.

I feel that the "communications" issues are just fluff. When lining up, you point to the guy you are gonna clobber. So long as you and the guy next to you are not pointing at the same guy, nothing more needs to be said. Everything else comes down to execution, and desire to put the guy opposite you on his back.

For Temple, Ahmed was a defensive lineman and part of the rotation two years ago. Carter was a def lineman and started a game at tackle last year.

 

[PSU1983PHAN]

For Temple, Ahmed was a defensive lineman and part of the rotation two years ago. Carter was a def lineman and started a game at tackle last year.

But the excuse makers said "YOU CANT CONVERT D LINEMEN!!!!"

Herbert the Twitter Hand is just INCOMPETENT