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The only ranking suspense: is Ohio State above TCU in the Playoff four?

Jerry

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May 29, 2001
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So Georgia and Michigan are 1 and 2. Next comes TCU and Ohio State. Or will it be the other way around. That's the only question left to be settled. Any Alabama talk is idiotic. They're out.

Meanwhile, we finish 10-2, top-10 ranking, and Rose Bowl bid. Not bad. Not bad at all.
 
So Georgia and Michigan are 1 and 2. Next comes TCU and Ohio State. Or will it be the other way around. That's the only question left to be settled. Any Alabama talk is idiotic. They're out.

Meanwhile, we finish 10-2, top-10 ranking, and Rose Bowl bid. Not bad. Not bad at all.
We know Georgia plays Ohio St and Michigan plays TCU. That's what the committee will want unless the SEC has too many in the committee to do it right.
 
So Georgia and Michigan are 1 and 2. Next comes TCU and Ohio State. Or will it be the other way around. That's the only question left to be settled. Any Alabama talk is idiotic. They're out.

Meanwhile, we finish 10-2, top-10 ranking, and Rose Bowl bid. Not bad. Not bad at all.
It's strange to me that everyone is concluding that TCU is in over Alabama.

I can tell that that's the decision, because the talking idiots on ESPN don't even address TCU's suitability, even though discussing everyone else.

To me, it isn't close. Alabama with two losses is surely better than TCU with one loss.
 
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It's strange to me that everyone is concluding that TCU is in over Alabama.

I can tell that that's the decision, because the talking idiots on ESPN don't even address TCU's suitability, even though discussing everyone else.

To me, it isn't close. Alabama with two losses is surely better than TCU with one loss.
I do think Alabama, Tennessee, and PSU are better than TCU. But history has shown that 1 loss trumps 2. If TCU is selected than the explanation is neat and straightforward.

If Alabama is then there is tons of controversy and debate over going ahead of the only left out 1 loss team and other 2 loss teams with just as good of arguments. That even includes one team that beat Alabama head to head.
 
I do think Alabama, Tennessee, and PSU are better than TCU. But history has shown that 1 loss trumps 2. If TCU is selected than the explanation is neat and straightforward.

If Alabama is then there is tons of controversy and debate over going ahead of the only left out 1 loss team and other 2 loss teams with just as good of arguments. That even includes one team that beat Alabama head to head.
But does the committee care knowing the field is expanding? Controversy is usually good because it creates discussion. I believe TCU gets in but it should be Bama. Just like Clemson and Utah shouldn't jump us but at least Clemson probably will
 
It's strange to me that everyone is concluding that TCU is in over Alabama.

I can tell that that's the decision, because the talking idiots on ESPN don't even address TCU's suitability, even though discussing everyone else.

To me, it isn't close. Alabama with two losses is surely better than TCU with one loss.
I have no doubt that Alabama is better than Tcu but that’s too bad.So start the new championship format now. Top ten plus two
 
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I have no doubt that Alabama is better than Tcu but that’s too bad.So start the new championship format now. Top ten plus two
But why is it "too bad"?
The stated objective is to pick the 4 best teams. If you agree they're better why is TCU in?
Here's my thing...the same people that were angry Penn State was incorrectly left out with 2 losses for Washington now want that to happen to Bama. It seems like everyone agrees Bama is better so why shouldn't they be in?
If they deem Ohio State TCU and Bama to be comparable TCU is in trouble
 
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It's strange to me that everyone is concluding that TCU is in over Alabama.

I can tell that that's the decision, because the talking idiots on ESPN don't even address TCU's suitability, even though discussing everyone else.

To me, it isn't close. Alabama with two losses is surely better than TCU with one loss.

I think if the single criterion were who would Vegas favor on a neutral field, then yeah, Alabama has an argument.

But that criterion is not on the list...and shouldn't be. By every other metric that the committee is supposed to be using -- every one -- TCU seems the clear choice. I mean, Alabama couldn't even win its division and has two losses to boot.

I think Jerry Palm said it best this morning: put Oklahoma uniforms on TCU and Mississippi uniforms on Alabama, and we're not having this discussion. That's because at the end of the day, Alabama's argument comes down to its brand...and television ratings.

None of this matters because it's a done deal: TCU is in, and Alabama is out.
 
It's strange to me that everyone is concluding that TCU is in over Alabama.

I can tell that that's the decision, because the talking idiots on ESPN don't even address TCU's suitability, even though discussing everyone else.

To me, it isn't close. Alabama with two losses is surely better than TCU with one loss.
Bama is out, no doubt about that. The conflict they have is if they want to penalize TCU for a loss/justify a move down to #4 for TCU that forces O$U into the 3 spot and a rematch versus scUM. Not ideal.
 
We know Georgia plays Ohio St and Michigan plays TCU. That's what the committee will want unless the SEC has too many in the committee to do it right.

Agreed. I think the committee will want to avoid a Michigan-Ohio State rematch in the first round. If they get one in the final game, so be it. Plus Ohio State is just lucky to be backing in...again. There is no good argument for moving them up two spots when they didn't even play this weekend.
 
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I think if the single criterion were who would Vegas favor on a neutral field, then yeah, Alabama has an argument.

But that criterion is not on the list...and shouldn't be. By every other metric that the committee is supposed to be using -- every one -- TCU seems the clear choice. I mean, Alabama couldn't even win its division and has two losses to boot.

I think Jerry Palm said it best this morning: put Oklahoma uniforms on TCU and Mississippi uniforms on Alabama, and we're not having this discussion. That's because at the end of the day, Alabama's argument comes down to its brand...and television ratings.

None of this matters because it's a done deal: TCU is in, and Alabama is out.
Which criteria? Neither won their conference, they didn't play each other....
Which of the 4 listed criteria favors TCU?

Palm is right but those aren't the teams we're comparing. And it about talent more than brand.
 
Bama is out, no doubt about that. The conflict they have is if they want to penalize TCU for a loss/justify a move down to #4 for TCU that forces O$U into the 3 spot and a rematch versus scUM. Not ideal.
But if you don't penalize TCU why do you penalize USC? Because USC is falling to at least 6 if not 7 or 8 depending what they do with Clemson.
 
But why is it "too bad"?
The stated objective is to pick the 4 best teams. If you agree they're better why is TCU in?
Here's my thing...the same people that were angry Penn State was incorrectly left out with 2 losses for Washington now want that to happen to Bama. It seems like everyone agrees Bama is better so why shouldn't they be in?
If they deem Ohio State TCU and Bama to be comparable TCU is in trouble
Ok then change the format now.This may be an ideal time to do it.Now don’t drag your butt go for it
 
Probable top 10
1 Georgia
2 Michigan
3 TCU
4 Ohio State
5 Alabama
6 Clemson
7 USC
8 Tennessee
9 Penn State
10 Kansas State

I'm curious to see if Utah or K-State jump us--they shouldn't but...

What I'd do (which is irrelevant)
1 Georgia
2 Michigan
3 Ohio State
4 Alabama
5 Tennessee
6 Penn State
7 USC
8 TCU
9 Utah
10 Clemson
 
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I see them leaving OSU at #4 just to avoid a rematch in the semis, but if they don’t, then we see they only do that for the SEC to give them a chance to have two teams in the final.
 
Probable top 10
1 Georgia
2 Michigan
3 TCU
4 Ohio State
5 Alabama
6 Clemson
7 USC
8 Tennessee
9 Penn State
10 Kansas State

I'm curious to see if Utah or K-State jump us--they shouldn't but...

What I'd do (which is irrelevant)
1 Georgia
2 Michigan
3 Ohio State
4 Alabama
5 Tennessee
6 Penn State
7 USC
8 TCU
9 Utah
10 Clemson
It simply cannot be justified that TCU stays at #3.

It just cannot.

If they do, you can simply say that the rules for picking the participants in the CFP are:

"We do what we want"
 
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Which criteria? Neither won their conference, they didn't play each other....
Which of the 4 listed criteria favors TCU?

Palm is right but those aren't the teams we're comparing. And it about talent more than brand.
Let me take a moment to remind all of you that “eye test” is also not on the list of criteria.

I’d also like to point out there is little reason Alabama is higher than PSU. PSU has more power 5 wins. And losses teams with a far better combined record. Alabama has one win over a ranked team…Texas. So…eye test continues to play.
 
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TCU is in over ‘Bama and I lived watching Saban grovel that they should get in - they didn’t get it done in the field this year so they stay out - they best 4 teams - right it is and always has been the Herbie “eye test” bs at least for 1 more year.
 
Mr obvious says it’s all a freaking mess! The playoff expansion can’t come soon enough.

When it comes, depth preparation and recruiting become so critical. Attrition and the grind of tough physical games will no doubt take their toll. There are teams than on any given Saturday may have enough to win against a better on paper team, but put them in a playoff where they have to play at a high level multiple weeks and they will run out of steam.
 
Let me take a moment to remind all of you that “eye test” is also not on the list of criteria.

I’d also like to point out there is little reason Alabama is higher than PSU. PSU has more power 5 wins. And losses teams with a far better combined record. Alabama has one win over a ranked team…Texas. So…eye test continues to play.
Mississippi State is also ranked--so 2
Power 5 wins aren't a factor at all--it's weird you'd even say that
We have zero ranked wins and our best win is 8-5 Purdue by 4 who Michigan destroyed in a game that was irrelevant to them
Bama has 2 losses in the final second of road games against ranked teams
We lost by double digits including once at home
Bama is clearly better than us
The question is--what criteria puts TCU ahead of Bama or us for that matter.
 
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TCU is in over ‘Bama and I lived watching Saban grovel that they should get in - they didn’t get it done in the field this year so they stay out - they best 4 teams - right it is and always has been the Herbie “eye test” bs at least for 1 more year.
Everything Saban said was correct--if you put Bama against any of them who would be favored.
He also summed up how meaningless the bowls are in his speech
 
Here's the only question that actually matters
Does anyone think the top 4 teams in some order aren't Georgia, Michigan, Alabama and Ohio State? Would anyone take TCU, Tennessee without Hooker, Penn State, USC or Clemson to beat one of those 4 on a neutral site? Throw in K-State and Utah if you want.
 
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Which criteria? Neither won their conference, they didn't play each other....
Which of the 4 listed criteria favors TCU?

Palm is right but those aren't the teams we're comparing. And it about talent more than brand.

Start with the obvious criterion: TCU made it to their conference championship where they lost a close game to a team they had earlier beaten. Alabama couldn't even win its division.

Beyond that, I'll let USA Today's Dan Wolken make the case:

>>TCU has a better record against the top 25 (2-1 vs. 2-2). It has a better so-called “strength of record,” which measures how many games your opponents won. They had a common opponent in Texas, which TCU controlled from start to finish in a 17-10 win while Alabama had to mount a last-minute drive to win back in Week 2.

And finally, TCU’s overtime loss to a top-10 Kansas State team is better than Alabama’s overtime loss to a four-loss LSU team that got pounded by Georgia Saturday in the SEC championship. There’s also the matter of Alabama’s other loss, which would make them the first two-loss team ever included — a huge hurdle for a team that didn’t win its division.

It’s really not a close call. In a year of imperfect teams, TCU did what it needed to do and Alabama did not. Punishing the Horned Frogs for having to play a conference title game against a team it already had beaten earlier this season wouldn’t just be controversial — it would undermine all faith in what the Playoff is supposed to value.<<
 
Start with the obvious criterion: TCU made it to their conference championship where they lost a close game to a team they had earlier beaten. Alabama couldn't even win its division.

Beyond that, I'll let USA Today's Dan Wolken make the case:

>>TCU has a better record against the top 25 (2-1 vs. 2-2). It has a better so-called “strength of record,” which measures how many games your opponents won. They had a common opponent in Texas, which TCU controlled from start to finish in a 17-10 win while Alabama had to mount a last-minute drive to win back in Week 2.

And finally, TCU’s overtime loss to a top-10 Kansas State team is better than Alabama’s overtime loss to a four-loss LSU team that got pounded by Georgia Saturday in the SEC championship. There’s also the matter of Alabama’s other loss, which would make them the first two-loss team ever included — a huge hurdle for a team that didn’t win its division.

It’s really not a close call. In a year of imperfect teams, TCU did what it needed to do and Alabama did not. Punishing the Horned Frogs for having to play a conference title game against a team it already had beaten earlier this season wouldn’t just be controversial — it would undermine all faith in what the Playoff is supposed to value.<<
Making it to a championship game isn't a criteria
TCU won by 7 right?
TCU lost in a pseudo home game needing an 11 point comeback to tie it up while Bama lost in the last second twice on the road
K-State is also a 3 loss team since he just said top 10 ignoring their losses--imagine how many losses K-State would have in the SEC
It's absolutely close. And you know Bama is the better team
Nothing you listed impacts criteria. Both have 2 wins against ranked teams. Who's SOS and SOR is higher?
 
Again, the committee is going to put TCU 3 but they shouldn't. Just like Penn State should have been 4 over Washington.
 
Start with the obvious criterion: TCU made it to their conference championship where they lost a close game to a team they had earlier beaten. Alabama couldn't even win its division.

Beyond that, I'll let USA Today's Dan Wolken make the case:

>>TCU has a better record against the top 25 (2-1 vs. 2-2). It has a better so-called “strength of record,” which measures how many games your opponents won. They had a common opponent in Texas, which TCU controlled from start to finish in a 17-10 win while Alabama had to mount a last-minute drive to win back in Week 2.

And finally, TCU’s overtime loss to a top-10 Kansas State team is better than Alabama’s overtime loss to a four-loss LSU team that got pounded by Georgia Saturday in the SEC championship. There’s also the matter of Alabama’s other loss, which would make them the first two-loss team ever included — a huge hurdle for a team that didn’t win its division.

It’s really not a close call. In a year of imperfect teams, TCU did what it needed to do and Alabama did not. Punishing the Horned Frogs for having to play a conference title game against a team it already had beaten earlier this season wouldn’t just be controversial — it would undermine all faith in what the Playoff is supposed to value.<<
How about Clemson then? They made their conference championship and won it.

In the end, the only argument people have for TCU is that they have one loss, while other teams have 2 losses.

But not one person alive thinks TCU is actually better. No one.
 
Making it to a championship game isn't a criteria
TCU won by 7 right?
TCU lost in a pseudo home game needing an 11 point comeback to tie it up while Bama lost in the last second twice on the road
K-State is also a 3 loss team since he just said top 10 ignoring their wins--imagine how many losses K-State would have in the SEC
It's absolutely close. And you know Bama is the better team
Nothing you listed impact criteria. Both have 2 wins against ranked teams. Who's SOS and SOR is higher?

Nothing I listed impact criteria? Read Wolken's bill of particulars again...you must have missed something.
 
Nothing I listed impact criteria? Read Wolken's bill of particulars again...you must have missed something.
I didn't--he's taking an emotional approach to it as opposed to the 4 stated criteria
The fact he's trying to claim a 17-10 win is far more impressive than a 20-19 win against the same team is where his argument first losses credibility. SOR isn't just games against ranked teams as he likely knows but that's not what he listed. Having 2 losses isn't a criteria that eliminates you despite what he wants to believe.
Again, this is someone that wants new blood in the playoff.
 
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