Today's BOT Spending Cram Downs

[StinkStankStunk]

http://brandywine.psu.edu/story/2877/2015/11/19/committee-recommends-approval-abington-and-brandywine-housing-projects


One of today's projects:

Penn State Abington Dorm Project:
- Approx. 100 "apartment style" units.....4-6 students per unit (2 BR, 1 Bath per unit)

Total Costs.....$50 Million.


Ok....take a breath.....and do the math:

That is $500,000 per 2 bedroom apartment.

Now, we know that when Dambly got into the "low income housing" - funded with Federal dollars racket.....his projects typically had a cost of 2-3 times the cost of any other similar "low income housing" projects in the area.

But - even for Dambly - even with ALL the folks he needs to cut in to the graft - $500,000 per 2 Br/1Bath Apartment? Really?

IS ANYONE GOING TO STAND UP TO THIS???

This is before we even get into the necessity of such a project. Even if we assume the project is VITAL.....how can we justify $500,000 per 2 Br/1 Bath apartment?
Where o Where do we think that money will go? LOL



At Brandywine.....its just as bad......$250,000 per 1 Br/1Bath dormitory room.

http://brandywine.psu.edu/story/2877/2015/11/19/committee-recommends-approval-abington-and-brandywine-housing-projects

 

[bkmtnittany1]

Noone's getting a kickback outta this are they!

 

[91Joe95]

Noone's getting a kickback outta this are they!

Don't be silly. They would disclose that on their conflict of interest forms.

 

[psu00]

http://brandywine.psu.edu/story/2877/2015/11/19/committee-recommends-approval-abington-and-brandywine-housing-projects


One of today's projects:

Penn State Abington Dorm Project:
- Approx. 100 "apartment style" units.....4-6 students per unit (2 BR, 1 Bath per unit)

Total Costs.....$50 Million.


Ok....take a breath.....and do the math:

That is $500,000 per 2 bedroom apartment.

Now, we know that when Dambly got into the "low income housing" - funded with Federal dollars racket.....his projects typically had a cost of 2-3 times the cost of any other similar "low income housing" projects in the area.

But - even for Dambly - even with ALL the folks he needs to cut in to the graft - $500,000 per 2 Br/1Bath Apartment? Really?

IS ANYONE GOING TO STAND UP TO THIS???

This is before we even get into the necessity of such a project. Even if we assume the project is VITAL.....how can we justify $500,000 per 2 Br/1 Bath apartment?
Where o Where do we think that money will go? LOL



At Brandywine.....its just as bad......$250,000 per 1 Br/1Bath dormitory room.

http://brandywine.psu.edu/story/2877/2015/11/19/committee-recommends-approval-abington-and-brandywine-housing-projects

It does make you wonder where the university, that constantly cries poverty at government budget time, gets this money and the "creative" financing of plans up there.

You look at the $60 million voluntary fine they continue on the athletic side, spending millions on a softball stadium, spending more money on associate assistant athletic directors, and the soon to be released report on upgrading all athletic facilities (including supposedly replacing the Beav per a post on TOS) and it like play money.

Now I realize the athletic and academic budgets are separate, as they should be (although we are seeing some fuzzy cross over IIRC) but is there anyone auditing this process to make sure PSU gets 'value for money' out of this? Or is this like the government spending $$$millions more than needed for projects?

 

[Marshall30]

Noone's getting a kickback outta this are they!

No one except Poole Construction, family and friends.

 

[WDLion]

Noone's getting a kickback outta this are they!

LOL

Nothing gets done in America today without pocket stuffing. NOTHING!

 

[novaclassof90]

What else is involved, if anything? Does the facility include a dining hall? Does it include space for other campus stuff like admin offices, retail space, bookstore, fitness facilities, etc.?

 

[StinkStankStunk]

What else is involved, if anything? Does the facility include a dining hall? Does it include space for other campus stuff like admin offices, retail space, bookstore, fitness facilities, etc.?

NO. Nothing


There is a separate spending plan for a student union (about $20 million IIRC). But that is a completely separate project.

 

[zwick99]

http://brandywine.psu.edu/story/2877/2015/11/19/committee-recommends-approval-abington-and-brandywine-housing-projects


One of today's projects:

Penn State Abington Dorm Project:
- Approx. 100 "apartment style" units.....4-6 students per unit (2 BR, 1 Bath per unit)

Total Costs.....$50 Million.


Ok....take a breath.....and do the math:

That is $500,000 per 2 bedroom apartment.

Now, we know that when Dambly got into the "low income housing" - funded with Federal dollars racket.....his projects typically had a cost of 2-3 times the cost of any other similar "low income housing" projects in the area.

But - even for Dambly - even with ALL the folks he needs to cut in to the graft - $500,000 per 2 Br/1Bath Apartment? Really?

IS ANYONE GOING TO STAND UP TO THIS???

This is before we even get into the necessity of such a project. Even if we assume the project is VITAL.....how can we justify $500,000 per 2 Br/1 Bath apartment?
Where o Where do we think that money will go? LOL



At Brandywine.....its just as bad......$250,000 per 1 Br/1Bath dormitory room.

http://brandywine.psu.edu/story/2877/2015/11/19/committee-recommends-approval-abington-and-brandywine-housing-projects

It is pretty standard. If you did a little checking you would see it is on par with other similar projects at Temple, West Chester, and other local schools.

That two bedroom unit will probably be rented for about 20k a year on up for the next 50 years.

 

[StinkStankStunk]

And this was the "unconflicted" conflict of interest that was on the top of Ira Lubert's agenda back in 2013.

(thanks to Bob Daman for locating the brief 5 minute clip from the BOT meeting):

__________________________________________

So.....Lubert's sweetheart deal - that had NO CONFLICTS OF INTEREST - for his real estate lease to the University:

http://bit.ly/1TO1ZkV.

$300,000 per year for 12,000 square feet......$25 per square foot per year. And Lubert didn't even offer to buy everyone a round of drinks!!!

________________________________

...
Here is space IN THE OFFICE PARK.....available to anyone for $13.50 per square foot (1/2 the price paid to Mr Lubert) [http://www.showcase.com/.../State.../Pennsylvania/6161760]

Property on University Drive for $12.50 [http://www.showcase.com/.../State.../Pennsylvania/6903938]

Property on Atherton Street for $6.00 per sq ft. [http://www.showcase.com/.../State.../Pennsylvania/994444]

 

[WDLion]

It is pretty standard. If you did a little checking you would see it is on par with other similar projects at Temple, West Chester, and other local schools.

That two bedroom unit will probably be rented for about 20k a year on up for the next 50 years.



If you really want to complain then how about going after the 30,000 public housing units in Philly that will be rented for peanuts and will be trashed in the next 5 years.

Why can't we complain about both?
Because it will bring in money, doesn't justify the inflated cost.

 

[StinkStankStunk]

It is pretty standard. If you did a little checking you would see it is on par with other similar projects at Temple, West Chester, and other local schools.

That two bedroom unit will probably be rented for about 20k a year on up for the next 50 years.



If you really want to complain then how about going after the 30,000 public housing units in Philly that will be rented for peanuts and will be trashed in the next 5 years.

It is NOT EVEN CLOSE to the real estate prices/costs in those neighborhoods. NOT....EVEN....CLOSE

Don't be an idiot.

These are not Center City developments.

These are suburban dorms/efficiency apartments.

And costed at WELL above the costs for full-fledged single family homes and townhouses in the area.

Not to mention....in AT LEAST one of the cases the University already owns the land....which SHOULD drop the costs SIGNIFICANTLY (what is the % of the value of comparable units that is land acquisition costs?)


http%3A%2F%2Fwww.realtor.com%2Frealestateandhomes-search%2FAbington_PA&h=nAQFIPTF6

http://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-search/Abington_PA

 

[EPC FAN]

It is NOT EVEN CLOSE to the real estate prices/costs in those neighborhoods. NOT....EVEN....CLOSE

Don't be an idiot.

These are not Center City developments.

These are suburban dorms/efficiency apartments.
And costed at WELL above the costs for full-fledged single family homes and townhouses in the area.

http%3A%2F%2Fwww.realtor.com%2Frealestateandhomes-search%2FAbington_PA&h=nAQFIPTF6

http://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-search/Abington_PA

I've about given up on Penn State. It is as corrupt as the Commonwealth.

 

[zwick99]

It is NOT EVEN CLOSE to the real estate prices/costs in those neighborhoods. NOT....EVEN....CLOSE

Don't be an idiot.

These are not Center City developments.

These are suburban dorms/efficiency apartments.

And costed at WELL above the costs for full-fledged single family homes and townhouses in the area.

Not to mention....in AT LEAST one of the cases the University already owns the land....which SHOULD drop the costs SIGNIFICANTLY (what is the % of the value of comparable units that is land acquisition costs?)


http%3A%2F%2Fwww.realtor.com%2Frealestateandhomes-search%2FAbington_PA&h=nAQFIPTF6

http://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-search/Abington_PA

If you want to go there then you are still wrong. Meadowbrook happens to be one of the most expensive neighborhoods in the area. PSU Abington is surrounded by million dollar homes. Temple's campus is surrounded by abandoned burned out crack houses. Philly has 30,000 abandoned homes vs probably zero in Meadowbrook.



Here is an example of home in the PSU Abington neighborhood. http://www.zillow.com/homedetails/1538-Meadowbrook-Rd-Meadowbrook-PA-19046/9900714_zpid/

 

[StinkStankStunk]

If you want to go there then you are still wrong. Meadowbrook happens to be one of the most expensive neighborhoods in the area. PSU Abington is surrounded by million dollar homes. Temple's campus is surrounded by abandoned burned out crack houses. Philly has 30,000 abandoned homes vs probably zero in Meadowbrook.



Here is an example of home in the PSU Abington neighborhood. http://www.zillow.com/homedetails/1538-Meadowbrook-Rd-Meadowbrook-PA-19046/9900714_zpid/

LOL.

Yeah...right.

Coffee's brewing son....time to wake up.

 

[zwick99]

LOL.

Yeah...right.

Coffee's brewing son....time to wake up.

Sounds like you know very little about that area.

 

[bwifan]

If you want to go there then you are still wrong. Meadowbrook happens to be one of the most expensive neighborhoods in the area. PSU Abington is surrounded by million dollar homes. Temple's campus is surrounded by abandoned burned out crack houses. Philly has 30,000 abandoned homes vs probably zero in Meadowbrook.



Here is an example of home in the PSU Abington neighborhood. http://www.zillow.com/homedetails/1538-Meadowbrook-Rd-Meadowbrook-PA-19046/9900714_zpid/

Temple Ambler campus is quite nice....

 

[StinkStankStunk]

Sounds like you know very little about that area.

Existing student housing at Abington:

$700 per month per bedroom.......equals a capitalized cost in the neighborhood of 1/3 of the costs in the projects proposed by Mr Dambly. (If you don't understand Real Estate capitalization....ask some patient soul to explain it to you).

What does that mean? 1/2 to 2/3 of the total costs being eaten up in graft.

And these are full blown apartments with Dens, and extra Bathroom, a Fitness Center, etc.

http://abington.psu.edu/apartment-complexes

We offer 10 month leases! The Addison offers some of the area’s most spacious one and two bedroom apartments and townhomes. Our one bedroom apartments have a den, which can double as a study! All of our one bedroom apartments have dens and 1.5 baths. We are seconds from Iron Hill, Whole Foods and Trader Joes and minutes from Target and Montgomeryville Mall. The Addison has a huge pool, fitness center, business center, and resident lounge complete with a pool table and free Wifi! One bedrooms start at $975, Two bedrooms starting at $1265! Our security deposit is as low as $500! Mention you saw us on the PSU Off Campus Housing Site and receive a free application!

Do your homework little man.

 

[zwick99]

Temple Ambler campus is quite nice....

TU Ambler is ok. Not much there. No on campus housing that I can see.

I was referring to Temple in North Philly. If you want to talk about the cost of campus housing then let's compare it to other schools WITH on campus housing. This is where the OP has no cred.
PUblic works cost way more.


The reality is he has an ax to grind with Dambly.

 

[zwick99]

Existing student housing at Abington:

$700 per month per bedroom.......equals a capitalized cost in the neighborhood of 1/3 of the costs in the projects proposed by Mr Dambly. (If you don't understand Real Estate capitalization....ask some patient soul to explain it to you).

What does that mean? 1/2 to 2/3 of the total costs being eaten up in graft.

And these are full blown apartments with Dens, and extra Bathroom, a Fitness Center, etc.

http://abington.psu.edu/apartment-complexes

We offer 10 month leases! The Addison offers some of the area’s most spacious one and two bedroom apartments and townhomes. Our one bedroom apartments have a den, which can double as a study! All of our one bedroom apartments have dens and 1.5 baths. We are seconds from Iron Hill, Whole Foods and Trader Joes and minutes from Target and Montgomeryville Mall. The Addison has a huge pool, fitness center, business center, and resident lounge complete with a pool table and free Wifi! One bedrooms start at $975, Two bedrooms starting at $1265! Our security deposit is as low as $500! Mention you saw us on the PSU Off Campus Housing Site and receive a free application!

Do your homework little man.

Nice cut and paste. Now look up the price of comparable on campus housing. The closest public schools are probably TU and West Chester. The prices will be similar.

 

[fairgambit]

I've about given up on Penn State. It is as corrupt as the Commonwealth.

I'm getting closer every day. I've said before I may just wake up some morning and finally acknowledge that the Penn State I cared about is but a memory. I grow weary of the constant drumbeat of troubling news emanating from our leadership at nearly every level. My passion for Penn State is running on fumes and I am out of the emotional cash necessary to refuel.

 

[StinkStankStunk]

TU Ambler is ok. Not much there. No on campus housing that I can see.

I was referring to Temple in North Philly. If you want to talk about the cost of campus housing then let's compare it to other schools WITH on campus housing. This is where the OP has no cred.
PUblic works cost way more.


The reality is he has an ax to grind with Dambly.

You are right...they are not apples-to-apples comparisons.

Even though both the existing private and proposed Dambly projects are in the same neighborhoods (the proposed Abington project is NOT on Campus....it is on University owned land - ZERO acquisition costs - located off campus. Which, if were not such a lazy dope, intent on spewing ignorant nonsense, you would know....it ain't that hard to research BEFORE you start spewing ignorant opinions):

The non-Dambly projects are much more comprehensive and have many more features.
The non-Dambly projects didn't have FREE land acquisition

So...yes, it is indeed even worse than it looks.


And...since you are so intent to compare to West Chester (but, apparently to damn lazy to actual check the data):

West Chester's last student housing project (just 6 years ago) came in at just under $26,000 per bed ($82 Million for 3,200 beds). About 20% of the costs of the Dambly project.

So....by YOUR preferred comparison...it is EVEN WORSE!!





Stop embarrassing yourself. If you can.


Consider the Mic, dropped.

Even a good cat eventually tires of tormenting dumb mice.

 

[Ten Thousan Marbles]

You are right...they are not apples-to-apples comparisons. Even though both the existing private and proposed Dambly projects are in the same neighborhoods (the proposed Abington project is NOT on Campus....it is on University owned land - ZERO acquisition costs - located off campus. Which, if were not such a lazy dope, intent on spewing ignorant nonsense, you would know....it ain't that hard to research BEFORE you start spewing ignorant opinions):

The non-Dambly projects are much more comprehensive and have many more features.
The non-Dambly projects didn't have FREE land acquisition

So...yes, it is indeed even worse than it looks.


Stop embarrassing yourself. If you can.

zwick's mind was made up @ the same time Hanger spoke up. (For the usual zwickish reason.)

 

[Tom McAndrew]

I'm getting closer every day. I've said before I may just wake up some morning and finally acknowledge that the Penn State I cared about is but a memory. I grow weary of the constant drumbeat of troubling news emanating from our leadership at nearly every level. My passion for Penn State is running on fumes and I am out of the emotional cash necessary to refuel

Emotions are are tough competitor, but hang in there. This is taking longer than most of us expected, but I'm actually encouraged long-term.

 

[WDLion]

TU Ambler is ok. Not much there. No on campus housing that I can see.

I was referring to Temple in North Philly. If you want to talk about the cost of campus housing then let's compare it to other schools WITH on campus housing. This is where the OP has no cred.
PUblic works cost way more.


The reality is he has an ax to grind with Dambly.

I have an axe to grind with corruption and kickbacks. Apparently it's fine with you.

 

[Still in State College]

I think the bigger concern is the approved Lasch Building renovation without having the funding in place yet. They are putting something like $20M into Lasch since 2012.

 

[fairgambit]

Emotions are are tough competitor, but hang in there. This is taking longer than most of us expected, but I'm actually encouraged long-term.

Perhaps it's my looking at another year in the rear view mirror, but I am not encouraged at all. If it wasn't for this Board, I'd be long gone. I realize you are closer to the entire process than I am so that gives me some hope, but the search for truth and justice seems as elusive as ever, and most of the scoundrels who were in charge in November, 2011, are still running the place.

 

[DonP74]

I think the bigger concern is the approved Lasch Building renovation without having the funding in place yet. They are putting something like $20M into Lasch since 2012.

Well worth it. Do people realize that if they ever honor Joe and acknowledge the players from his 46 years that these same lettermen and their families will really open up their pocketbooks as you would expect. Frankly, we all would.

 

[novaclassof90]

From my experience, every university MUST put large construction projects out for bid and get a min. of 3 bids. By law, they must accept the lowest viable bid that meets all the specs of the RFP. Maybe that is simply the going cost for building dorms, they are not cheap. Or, there is collusion amongst the contractors to keep all bids high. But if the univ. is accepting inflated bids that are larger than other viable bids then somebody is going to find out, these processes are audited VERY closely. There are also usually a lot of strings attached about what types of bids (ex. Winning bid must pay prevailing wages to their workers) can be accepted.

 

[Cletus11]

Well worth it. Do people realize that if they ever honor Joe and acknowledge the players from his 46 years that these same lettermen and their families will really open up their pocketbooks as you would expect. Frankly, we all would.

If you have experience, then you know any engineer can write a bid specification such that they know who is going to win it. In a complex and large project like this, it is simple to write in some clauses that all but excludes only a few bidders. Then you allow one of the bidders a couple of months of time to review the bid and get everything ready before putting it out on the street and only give a very short time to everyone else. Throw in some heavyweight damage clauses and you have your preferred bidder. Kickbacks take the form of checks written to a brother in law or llc that are nowhere attached to the project in any way, shape, or form so not traceable without one hell of an audit of the entire business. An audit of the project itself would never show it.

 

[Still in State College]

They do not necessarily have to bid anything.

Take the East Halls Project. That project is a design build to a maximum price. Ten teams were long listed. Which short listed to four. Which went to three for final interviews. Selection was qualification based.

 

[anon_xdc8rmuek44eq]

Perhaps it's my looking at another year in the rear view mirror, but I am not encouraged at all. If it wasn't for this Board, I'd be long gone. I realize you are closer to the entire process than I am so that gives me some hope, but the search for truth and justice seems as elusive as ever, and most of the scoundrels who were in charge in November, 2011, are still running the place.

Like I said before - I love Penn State, or what it was to me at one time, but wouldn't send my kid there (unless on scholarship to play v-ball for Russ Rose .

 

[Nittany Ziggy]

From my experience, every university MUST put large construction projects out for bid and get a min. of 3 bids. By law, they must accept the lowest viable bid that meets all the specs of the RFP. Maybe that is simply the going cost for building dorms, they are not cheap. Or, there is collusion amongst the contractors to keep all bids high. But if the univ. is accepting inflated bids that are larger than other viable bids then somebody is going to find out, these processes are audited VERY closely. There are also usually a lot of strings attached about what types of bids (ex. Winning bid must pay prevailing wages to their workers) can be accepted.

Your statements remind me of the Econ professor in this clip:

 

[MICH.Nit Fan]

I had to quit giving any donations to my alma mater, Clarion. They have spent like drunken bureaucrats which, of course, is what they are. New apartment-style dorms to compete with Edinboro, Slippery Rock, IUP, etc. What a waste of money. When they call me begging for money, the student solicitors always tell me about all of the wonderful new buildings, and I have to explain that telling me about these things just angers me, and strengthens my resolve to withhold any donations. State Universities are just another arm of government, and unfortunately they do what government does best, waste our money.

 

[harjeff]

Unfortunatly this is what has become of the entire public proccess it seems, EVERYTHING the government touches just costs wayyyyyy more that it should and we keep going further and further in debt because of it on the local, state and national level. PSU is no exception and it is just plain sad all around. Their is no accountability anywhere!

 

[Cruising Route 66]

Sounds like you know very little about that area.

Barry knows very little about a lot of things LOL!

 

[kgilbert78]

It is NOT EVEN CLOSE to the real estate prices/costs in those neighborhoods. NOT....EVEN....CLOSE

Don't be an idiot.

These are not Center City developments.

These are suburban dorms/efficiency apartments.

And costed at WELL above the costs for full-fledged single family homes and townhouses in the area.

Not to mention....in AT LEAST one of the cases the University already owns the land....which SHOULD drop the costs SIGNIFICANTLY (what is the % of the value of comparable units that is land acquisition costs?)


http%3A%2F%2Fwww.realtor.com%2Frealestateandhomes-search%2FAbington_PA&h=nAQFIPTF6

http://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-search/Abington_PA

Have you ever *been* to Abington?? The area around the campus is pretty fancy. Zillow notes that homes for say in the immediate campus area are $850K, 1.15M, 585K, 725K, 545K, 1.55M, 649K, 925K, 1.36M.

I'm an Ogontz alum, BTW.

 

[StinkStankStunk]

Have you ever *been* to Abington?? The area around the campus is pretty fancy. Zillow notes that homes for say in the immediate campus area are $850K, 1.15M, 585K, 725K, 545K, 1.55M, 649K, 925K, 1.36M.

I'm an Ogontz alum, BTW.

A decent family home on Park Avenue (bordering PSU) might go for as little as $500,000 - if you're willing to do a little fixing up. Three miles away, the same house would go for $300,000

Neither has anything to do with the costs to construct dormitories on PSU land......especially when the land "value" is not even included in the costs.

Its apples-to-oranges.

Similar (if not better) construction in the same area as Abington (again, the land values are not part of the equation for the project, it is land already owned by PSU) come in at less than 1/4 the cost. Period.

You really think the cost to build (NOT acquire land for AND build....the cost to BUILD only) a 2 bedroom efficiency apartment in a multi-floor building should be $500,000?
If you actually "ZILLOW" existing, privately operated, student housing right in these Abington neighborhoods....or just use the link from the PSU Abington website You will see that the capitalized costs for those units - which WOULD include land acquisition costs - is a small (VERY small) fraction of that $500,000.



And NO ONE on the PSU BOT even bats an eye. Shocking! (not)

 

[Nitwit]

From my experience, every university MUST put large construction projects out for bid and get a min. of 3 bids. By law, they must accept the lowest viable bid that meets all the specs of the RFP. Maybe that is simply the going cost for building dorms, they are not cheap. Or, there is collusion amongst the contractors to keep all bids high. But if the univ. is accepting inflated bids that are larger than other viable bids then somebody is going to find out, these processes are audited VERY closely. There are also usually a lot of strings attached about what types of bids (ex. Winning bid must pay prevailing wages to their workers) can be accepted.

Finally a voice of reason. I was wearing out my ignore button.

 

[StinkStankStunk]

But if the univ. is accepting inflated bids that are larger than other viable bids then somebody is going to find out, these processes are audited VERY closely. There are also usually a lot of strings attached about what types of bids (ex. Winning bid must pay prevailing wages to their workers) can be accepted.

No, they are not.

The "outside auditors" (and that has been discussed at length in the past) look to see if invoices match up with disbursements. If they do.....wash hands and go to dinner.

Inside oversight would fall to PSU's own governance board (and we know the history there.....those are the guys who need the most watching) and administration.