at some point there would have been plenty of volunteers...prob not for much more than the 800 final offer!
United- all it had to do was continue to increase the compensation...econ 101
- Thread starter ritaith
- Start date
Stop it. The tough internet guys will call you a snowflake.
yes, a little microeconomics at that - what is the marginal utility for a passenger to get off a plane? Answer: it's not the same from flight to flight (as United found out)
He is a doctor and missed patient appointments. Lives depend on him. They should have used judgement, not policy. I do not know this under line started or how to shut it off.
That's a great idea. Now what if you have a gate agent in cahoots with a passenger?
The problem with large companies is that the policies must be pushed through to the staff.
They have a policy. It's legal. In this case it didn't work out too well. Time to go back and adjust the policy.
LdN
If our BOT was running the show there, they'd have thrown a cool $10million at all of them. And the people who had to watch it are certainly worthy of millions themselves.
A
anon_xdc8rmuek44eq
Guest
Definitely should have sweetened the deal. Also heard they weren't very tactful when trying to get passengers to take the deal; I would have had the pilot make an announcement (people generally like and respect pilots - attendants who don't want to help you lift your bag, not so much) pleading for four brave souls to take the deal and help him out. Make it seem like a favor, instead of a procedure. I also think the airline's compensation is, at a minimum, dictated by the Department of Transportation. My guess is they're not going to pay any more than they legally have to.
All they had to do was prevent 4 people from boarding and they'd have been well within their rights. Not let them on then yank them off.
Anecdotally, the counter-offer often works. American was asking for volunteers once on an over-booked Chicago to Cincinnati flight. Offer was $400 in airline vouchers - I didn't want airline vouchers but asked for $400 cash. Accepted right there. Bought me my one-way rental car home that cost ~ $100 + had $300 extra spending cash.
Yeah, you want a last-minute seat from United, they charge you $3,000. They want a seat at the last minute, they offer $800 beat you up if you don't take the deal.
Just BTW this is an airline that made $2.6 billion in profit last year flying old planes, packing passengers in like sardines, charging for everything from baggage to seat assignments.
Heck, maybe this is a new profit center for them. A new $50 optional fee, and in exchange United won't beat you up.
Just BTW this is an airline that made $2.6 billion in profit last year flying old planes, packing passengers in like sardines, charging for everything from baggage to seat assignments.
Heck, maybe this is a new profit center for them. A new $50 optional fee, and in exchange United won't beat you up.
Exactly. I've never understood this. I get overbooking, but once you've issued the boarding pass with a seat assignment on it, as long as the passenger doesn't break any rules, it should be theirs. That seems as stright-forward and cut-and-dry common-sense obvious as the nose on my face.
DO NOT ISSUE MULTIPLE BOARDING PASSES WITH THE SAME SEAT ASSIGNMENT!
United didn't beat anyone up.
"Chicago’s O’Hare and Midway airports are patrolled by two police forces. Both the Chicago Police Department and the city Department of Aviation Police are present, the latter agency is unarmed. It appears that the officers involved in dragging the 69-year-old passenger from his seat were members of the Department of Aviation Police."
LdN
They didn't overbook though. They just wanted to clear room for 4 United flight attendants/crew who were due in Louisville to work a flight.
That doesn't get United off the hook at all. They requested that the passenger -- who had taken his seat with a valid boarding pass -- be forcibly removed because he wouldn't, in United's words, "voluntarily" leave the plane. United had no basis to remove him other than they wanted his seat for a crew member at the last minute because they had botched their own seat management.
I don't think United blaming the airport police is going to do much good in the court of public opinion.
I don't think United blaming the airport police is going to do much good in the court of public opinion.
I don't disagree, but the counterpoint is that since policy allows them to remove passengers unwillingly and the passenger compensation for involuntary bumps is determined by the DOT, what's the incentive for the airline to ever offer more than the DOT amounts to volunteers? Financially, it makes sense never to exceed that DOT threshold and I'd imagine United's policies on how much to offer volunteers reflect that. United just learned the hard way that there might be reasons to up the offer though because this will cost them far more in the long run.
Totally agree. It was a bureaucratic problem. And also agree, gate agents often take care of families flying for free. I've got an acquaintance that takes four vacations a year with their family of five, most often flying first class. She works for peanuts and he mades good money. She works for the travel perks and the people at the airport "take care of her".
I understand that. Sorry I put the word "overbooking" in my post, as it just caused a distraction. The point is still exactly the same. Printing a boarding pass with a seat assignment is (should be) the final call/say for a seat.
Overbooking - why is this being used by so many in this thread as well as news organizations. United was dis accommodating passengers to accommodate their employees. Sorry, no excuse what so ever. No matter the dollars offered to passengers by United, it was to save them money for the flight crew for the Louisville flight and based on United having the "deep pockets" here, there is no justification for their action. If DOT has the rules to govern the airline action, that policy needs to be addressed immediately. I don't care if they had to book that flight crew on a charter flight, there is no monetary justification for what they did to that passenger.
I'm not United.
United did not drag anyone, the police did.
Fact is whether people like it or not, the guy was not obeying police orders. Not United's orders, police.
LdN
No, but you are a person that likes to argue over stupid shit.
...several years ago my buddy and I were in St. Louis for the NCAA wrestling championships...our return flight was Sunday morning at 8:15 AM ...I went online Saturday night and confirmed our return flight and printed out our boarding passes...
...when we went to the gate at 7:30 I was told they had resold our seats, because we didn't show up an hour before departure...but they were going to book us on the next flight out and give us a $25 voucher for breakfast...
...I showed the gal our confirmed boarding passes and said their "arrangement" wasn't acceptable and that I wanted a check for twice the value of the flight since they had taken our seats without our permission...
... she got in the phone and ten minutes later a messenger showed up at the gate with two checks for $1,300 each for me and my friend - he was flabbergasted! ... they also gave us each two $25 meal vouchers for breakfast and lunch on the way home!
... I thanked her and told my buddy,
"Deposit that check the first thing Monday morning." ...
...when we went to the gate at 7:30 I was told they had resold our seats, because we didn't show up an hour before departure...but they were going to book us on the next flight out and give us a $25 voucher for breakfast...
...I showed the gal our confirmed boarding passes and said their "arrangement" wasn't acceptable and that I wanted a check for twice the value of the flight since they had taken our seats without our permission...
... she got in the phone and ten minutes later a messenger showed up at the gate with two checks for $1,300 each for me and my friend - he was flabbergasted! ... they also gave us each two $25 meal vouchers for breakfast and lunch on the way home!
... I thanked her and told my buddy,
"Deposit that check the first thing Monday morning." ...
...several years ago my buddy and I were in St. Louis for the NCAA wrestling championships...our return flight was Sunday morning at 8:15 AM ...I went online Saturday night and confirmed our return flight and printed out our boarding passes...
...when we went to the gate at 7:30 I was told they had resold our seats, because we didn't show up an hour before departure...but they were going to book us on the next flight out and give us a $25 voucher for breakfast...
...I showed the gal our confirmed boarding passes and said their "arrangement" wasn't acceptable and that I wanted a check for twice the value of the flight since they had taken our seats without our permission...
... she got in the phone and ten minutes later a messenger showed up at the gate with two checks for $1,300 each for me and my friend - he was flabbergasted! ... they also gave us each two $25 meal vouchers for breakfast and lunch on the way home!
... I thanked her and told my buddy,
"Deposit that check the first thing Monday morning." ...
Which airline?
...several years ago my buddy and I were in St. Louis for the NCAA wrestling championships...our return flight was Sunday morning at 8:15 AM ...I went online Saturday night and confirmed our return flight and printed out our boarding passes...
...when we went to the gate at 7:30 I was told they had resold our seats, because we didn't show up an hour before departure...but they were going to book us on the next flight out and give us a $25 voucher for breakfast...
...I showed the gal our confirmed boarding passes and said their "arrangement" wasn't acceptable and that I wanted a check for twice the value of the flight since they had taken our seats without our permission...
... she got in the phone and ten minutes later a messenger showed up at the gate with two checks for $1,300 each for me and my friend - he was flabbergasted! ... they also gave us each two $25 meal vouchers for breakfast and lunch on the way home!
... I thanked her and told my buddy,
"Deposit that check the first thing Monday morning." ...
LOL.
A
anon_xdc8rmuek44eq
Guest
His response has been awful. I get wanting to support your employees, but at least issue an apology.
This was a very simple problem to solve. United needed to increase the "Passenger buyout" amount until they had takers. If that number got to be too large, then they should charter a Lear jet for the crew to get them to their next flight. I have been on quite a few Lear charters for exactly this reason. If the company wants to get me to the jet they want me to fly for them, they can do it. It just might cost them a little more than they had planned.
If this passenger had not been wearing leggings, this whole sad incident could have been avoided.
There were so many good alternatives to avoid this problem! Once it was found that the randomly selected guy had a solid excuse not to be bumped -- a doctor needing to get to tend sick people, the pilot should have made the following announcement, "Hey, do my a favor. If anyone whats to drive from Chicago to Louisville (less than 300 miles) we will get you a nice rental car and give you a check for $1000 to boot!" I bet he would have gotten many takers -- especially nervous fliers. This was an easy problem to solve but the airline employees acted like they were not allowed to use creativity -- just follow the rules verbatim.
