So the best team will have the most falls? We both know that’s not true. The best team will win the most matches by out scoring their opponents using their strengths. Whether it’s escapes, takedowns, reversals, back points or pins. Ranking team takedowns as the sign of dominance is arbitrary
Wrestling VIDEO: Sanderson + Brooks and Kerk recap Iowa match
- Thread starter Richie O
- Start date
Please tell us how Iowa is going to do that at nationals with very few takedowns. Take Lee out of the mix, how may bonis points will they get?
Bonus rate
125 Lee 100% Steen/Vespa won’t qualify
133 Teske 25% RBY 90%
141 Woods 60% Bartlett 42.86%
149 Murin 71.43% Van Ness 54.55%
157 Siebrecht 62.50% Haines 40%
165 Kennedy 69.23% Facundo 36.36%
174 Brands 25% Starocci 81.82%
184 Assad 50% Brooks 85.71%
197 Warner 72.73% Dean 61.54%
285 Cassioppi 68.75% Kerkvliet 66.67%
By my count 7 out of 10 Iowa starters have higher bonus percentages than Penn St.
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Well, I have no idea where the percentages go for the current field, but regular season bonus rate is not the appropriate analysis in this debate — Nationals bonus rate is more applicable.
Cass has a much better chance at NC than Murin. Murin needs divine intervention, not luck.
Nationals bonus rate, highest to lowest
Lee 73.33%
Kerkvliet 50%
Brooks 40%
Cass 33.33%
Woods 30%
RBY 23.53%
Starocci 20%
Dean 18.75%
Teske 12.5%
Warner 10.53%
Murin 8.3%
Bartlett 0%
Van Ness 0%
Siebrecht 0%
Haines 0%
Kennedy 0%
Facundo 0%
Brands 0%
Assad 0%
You guys are easily going to win.
Hmmm
I wonder how many rematches you'll get at the tourney with wrestlers from Cal Baptist, Army, Sacred Heart, Chattanooga, Buffalo, or the intra-squad meet you hosted at Soldier Solute.
Beating up on non-qualifiers has little relevance to potential bonus rates at NCAAs.
Thanks for doing the work. So, if we take @PSUeng ’s original question, “Take Lee out of the mix, how many bonus points will they get?”, it would appear PSU is likely to get bonus points in a higher percentage of matches than is Iowa from its guys not named Spencer Lee.
That said, a straight-up comparison of returning bonus points w/ some metric of bonus rate over Top 33 guys for the freshmen might be the best way to look at it.
You guys are so good at deflecting. The OP asked where Iowa was going to get bonus beyond Spencer. I simply showed Iowa has guys with higher bonus rates than Penn St at the moment. I didn’t extrapolate any results at Nationals based on this.
Which means you have posted a couple times without answering the question. Who deflects?
I thought the question was about everyone other than Spencer. Admittedly, though, I haven’t followed closely enough to understand why that qualifier would be posed. It seems like Lee’s points count as much as everyone else’s.
You thought I was being sarcastic? I was being serious.
A 73% bonus rate at nationals is insane. I think Spencer bonuses the field in March.
Zain had 15/23 bonus point wins in the NCAA, for 65%. I wonder what his final percentage would have been if he had redshirted his first year. As a true freshman, he did not bonus anyone at NCAAS. After that, he bonused in 13/15 matches (86.66%)!
It's really simple to fix the audio issues these press conferences always have. Doesn't PSU have anybody in AV that has a clue?
So, with Lee taken out who get tilts after tilt, your other starters counting the transfers average 13.53% where PSU gets 30.86%. I would say take downs are a big part of it. You can play like take downs are worthless, if you are good at hand fighting and pushing but I think the number say different.
You guys win. I’m tired of trying to explain when everyone changes the discussion from the original comment. Whoever has the most takedowns will definitely win Nationals. Back points won’t matter and apparently Spencer’s won’t even count. Congrats on the 2023 title.
Thanks brother. If I could give 3 negative 🦝s for that comment I would.
Yeah we both know that's true.
However, it's your red herring, so you explain it.
I'll wait while you look up "red herring" and if your response is I know that is, then my follow up is why do you resort to it so often.
The bottom line is a wrestler should always be seeking the pin. Sometimes you have a Nickal or Nolf that can pin just about anybody; sometimes a guy gets sloppy and gets his head and knee together and it's an opportunity.
Two coaches teach what they think is important to win titles. One teaches to get takedowns and wrestling for points for 3 periods. One teaches to keep it close until the end. I know this because there was an Iowa fan telling us all what his team would do to win on Friday. I took Spencer out and gave him his due because he is the only one who does what he does.
The best ballpark in the league with the absolute worst owner. Might as well be a AA team.
That's good. Humility is an important virtue for Hawkeye fans here.
My gawd. Don’t you have anything better to do? Yikes.
I will take a moment to possibly defend Dean’s rate versus Warner. I say possibly because I have not checked Warners opponents to date, but Dean has had an impressive number of top ten opponents. I know it was way more than any other PSU hammer as of a few weeks ago. That could have affected his current rate versus Warner’s. I may take the time to check his opponents versus Warner’s later.
edit: Took the easy route and checked Wrestlestat, according to their ranking Dean has faced 6 top 20 people, Warner only 3. Of course Wrestlestat's rankings are not necessarily the best.
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Spencer is very flexible. He doesn't get taken down much, but when defending a single leg he often goes into the splits and his head is always just right there next to the knee. I have seen it close to a dozen times over the years. Physiologically impressive, but not fundamentally smart IMO. Most of the time the attacking wrestler has his head close to the leg and under Spencer's so he simply doesn't see it. You would think some proper scouting would reveal.
I would advise most wrestlers just to stay away in neutral operating from space, avoid the ties, try to get to that magical 3rd period. However, if you shoot and get in on a single, that head to knee might be your only chance at life, so look for it right away.
did anyone submit this post for NOT- post of the year consideration? If so I would like to submit.
obsession with take downs....thats hilarious. cant wait to read the rest of this thread.
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