We're about to learn a lot about Franklin and this team.

bdgan

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It's difficult losing to OSU every year but that's behind us now. Where does this team go from here?

Does anybody think that Indiana, Maryland, and Michigan State will be easy wins?

Will players still bring the same level of energy or do they feel defeated? Will they stick with their teammates through the bowl game or will they move on with their NFL ambitions?

Will the staff be willing make personnel adjustments or will they stick with their loyalty to seniors like Clifford & Sutherland?

10-2 + a bowl win over a ranked opponent is still possible. That would mean a top 10 finish. Of course a 4 loss season is also possible. The question is what does this team and this staff still have in the tank.
 

Obliviax

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Unlike when we got blown out by Michigan, our kids competed with one of the top four teams in the nation. Winning out and playing in a major bowl is a key to success for future teams. We all have to admit SC is not good enough to be at the Ohio state level. We are playing two true freshmen running backs. We are not deep at OL or on the front seven on D.

everyone expected to lose and possibly by a wide margin. It is interesting that playing and almost winning seems to actually be worse than getting blown out
 

Obliviax

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I’ve learned everything I need to know about Franklin - Coach Mirage, 4-14 vs OSU and UM. I don’t need any more proof that he will never make PSU an elite program, or lately, even a contending program.
Sadly, I agree. We are at PSU mediocrity. Do we settle for that or hire a Harbaugh or Urban Myer type? What is the cost of winning?

the only time we were close to elite is when we had a generational RB ( and we still blew big leads to Ohio state and USC)
 

Wallace Breen

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Unlike when we got blown out by Michigan, our kids competed with one of the top four teams in the nation. Winning out and playing in a major bowl is a key to success for future teams. We all have to admit SC is not good enough to be at the Ohio state level. We are playing two true freshmen running backs. We are not deep at OL or on the front seven on D.

everyone expected to lose and possibly by a wide margin. It is interesting that playing and almost winning seems to actually be worse than getting blown out
We didn't almost win. At no point in the game did it look like we had a realistic chance of winning. Ohio State used the same conservative approach they used against Iowa, who has a considerably better defense than we do. As soon as they turned it on, it was over. They always had the ability to do that, they chose to play it safe like they always do when they play Penn State.
 
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ShoreLion85

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Having players that make NFL rosters is fine. Having players that win lots of games and beat UM and OSU instead of continual mental, physical, and schematic errors is much better.

Coach Mirage is quite good at the former, and absolutely horrendous at the latter. That is PSU football reality.
 

Gitzit

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OSU is recruiting at a different level than PSU, on the defensive line anyway. I see michigan has done a better job of brining in higher ranked defensive lineman too. 2023 they have 2 stud DE that are above 250 pounds already.
OSU won because they have more quality depth through recruiting.
Nothing will change unless Franklin can lure in top DL talent to compete with OSU and michigan.
 

bdgan

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Unlike when we got blown out by Michigan, our kids competed with one of the top four teams in the nation. Winning out and playing in a major bowl is a key to success for future teams. We all have to admit SC is not good enough to be at the Ohio state level. We are playing two true freshmen running backs. We are not deep at OL or on the front seven on D.

everyone expected to lose and possibly by a wide margin. It is interesting that playing and almost winning seems to actually be worse than getting blown out
I'm not defending Clifford but the offense scored enough points to win.

My criticisms:
  • Our OL is made up of 4* talent. No excuses.
  • Our DL includes All BiG Mustipher + 5* Robinson, 4* Tarburton, etc. Again no excuses.
  • Our lack of experience at LB is clearly a recruiting failure. There's no excuse for LBU to be starting a low 3* and a converted safety.
  • I've never liked our strategy to always go for the explosive play on defense. How many interceptions or fumbles did we cause? I understand mixing it up but the blitzing is so frequent and predictable that opponents make adjustments. Yesterday OSU went to quick release passes in the middle of the field which was wide open and DBs were in man coverage. This even showed up on OSU's long TD run. Once the runner got past the LOS there was nobody to bring him down for 10+ yards. When we were still in the game OSU completed a 3rd and long by throwing to the space vacated by Carter on a blitz.
 

ShoreLion85

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OSU is recruiting at a different level than PSU, on the defensive line anyway. I see michigan has done a better job of brining in higher ranked defensive lineman too. 2023 they have 2 stud DE that are above 250 pounds already.
OSU won because they have more quality depth through recruiting.
Nothing will change unless Franklin can lure in top DL talent to compete with OSU and michigan.
Recruiting is only one aspect of the programmatic malaise we are currently experiencing, and the trend lines are in entirely the wrong direction. As a program, PSU is not inching closer to UM and OSU, we are being lapped by UM and OSU. Coach Mirage’s message, whatever it is, is not resonating with the program, with the players, with his assistants. The program is sub-optimal, period. No one should be surprised at yesterday’s result; no one, including anyone in the football program, honestly expected a different result than yet another loss to OSU. And THAT illustrates the problem perfectly.
 

Wallace Breen

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OSU is recruiting at a different level than PSU, on the defensive line anyway. I see michigan has done a better job of brining in higher ranked defensive lineman too. 2023 they have 2 stud DE that are above 250 pounds already.
OSU won because they have more quality depth through recruiting.
Nothing will change unless Franklin can lure in top DL talent to compete with OSU and michigan.
The reality is Franklin is simply not that good of a recruiter to win with the philosophy he wants to use, which is essentially, the same as Ohio State State, Clemson, Oklahoma/USC and LSU. Bottom line, we are trying to out Ohio State Ohio State will less talent. The math doesn't add up. We will never bring in enough talent to win that way. Franklin has shown so little accountability that only a fool would expect him to change his philosophy. Either accept that 10-2 in the regular season is the highest ceiling, 6 and 6 is the floor and the average will center around 8 and 4. Through his 11 year career, 8 and 4 is his career average (minus covid) with one 6 and 6 season, three 8 and 5 seasons, three 7 and 5 seasons and three 10 and 2 seasons, not counting 2020. Unless he changes his philosophy, it is very unlikely we will not compete with Ohio State nor will be regularly beat Iowa, Michigan, Michigan State and we will soon have USC and UCLA to deal with as well.
 

Gitzit

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I think it was Paterno that said something the effect that, " you can't put a gun to their head and make them come to your School"
You're blind if you think PSU is getting as good as talent as michigan and OSU on the DL. The starters might be comparable but not the backups, and you need quality depth. OSU beat(s) Penn State in the 4th quarter just like we beat lesser talented teams in the 4th quarter, they get worn out, or get taken advantage of when the back ups come in.
 
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heckmans

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It's difficult losing to OSU every year but that's behind us now. Where does this team go from here?

Does anybody think that Indiana, Maryland, and Michigan State will be easy wins?

Will players still bring the same level of energy or do they feel defeated? Will they stick with their teammates through the bowl game or will they move on with their NFL ambitions?

Will the staff be willing make personnel adjustments or will they stick with their loyalty to seniors like Clifford & Sutherland?

10-2 + a bowl win over a ranked opponent is still possible. That would mean a top 10 finish. Of course a 4 loss season is also possible. The question is what does this team and this staff still have in the tank.
Frankly, I don't care. Top 10, but 3rd in the division with the absolute ceiling being established in October is not exciting or compelling. It's also not okay, year after year, for a guy making $8.5M.
Not bashing Clifford, but he's now a lame duck, as is the 2022 season - there is nothing to win.
The next oppty to win something is in '23, and Franklin should now be thinking about what can be done to win the next meaningful game, which is next season. The obvious, and most important action is to play play Allar and vellieux. Clifford can focus on his NIL agent business and prep for the inevitable podcast he will launch. It's time.
 

ShoreLion85

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Right but did you really truly believe we would win?
No - and that is perfectly illustrative of the Franklin era. No one believed we’d win, because under Coach Mirage, we don’t win games like this one. The fans didn’t believe we’d win; the students didn’t believe we’d win; the Admin, the AD, the coaching staff, the players, the alums watching on their TVs never believed wed win. And THAT is the problem! The Program is not capable of beating seriously good teams. Period. When is the last time we won as an underdog? 2016? We don’t win these games because we are not good enough to win these games. On-field, in practice, recruiting, S&C, administration, operations, Athletic Department management, etc. Not good enough. The next problem is having someone/someones doing something about it - or accepting our now 2nd tier status.
 

m.knox

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It's difficult losing to OSU every year but that's behind us now. Where does this team go from here?

Does anybody think that Indiana, Maryland, and Michigan State will be easy wins?

Will players still bring the same level of energy or do they feel defeated? Will they stick with their teammates through the bowl game or will they move on with their NFL ambitions?

Will the staff be willing make personnel adjustments or will they stick with their loyalty to seniors like Clifford & Sutherland?

10-2 + a bowl win over a ranked opponent is still possible. That would mean a top 10 finish. Of course a 4 loss season is also possible. The question is what does this team and this staff still have in the tank.

I was thinking about this last night. 10-2 is a damn fine record. Everyone needs to buy into it to get the job done.
 
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ShoreLion85

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I was thinking about this last night. 10-2 is a damn fine record. Everyone needs to buy into it to get the job done.
Real record: 0-2 (again), not competing for the conference championship (again). But oh joy, we’ll probably beat Indiana and Rutgers. Some of us expect better from a program of Penn State’s (now former) stature and a coach making $8M plus per year.
 

ryoder1

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We didn't almost win. At no point in the game did it look like we had a realistic chance of winning. Ohio State used the same conservative approach they used against Iowa, who has a considerably better defense than we do. As soon as they turned it on, it was over. They always had the ability to do that, they chose to play it safe like they always do when they play Penn State.
So they didn't try until the last 10 minutes? Get a clue.
 
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m.knox

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Real record: 0-2 (again), not competing for the conference championship (again). But oh joy, we’ll probably beat Indiana and Rutgers. Some of us expect better from a program of Penn State’s (now former) stature and a coach making $8M plus per year.

I get it.. 10-2 does a lot more for everyone than 8-4. Especially in light of the transfer portal.
 

PSU20

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I'm not defending Clifford but the offense scored enough points to win.

My criticisms:
  • Our OL is made up of 4* talent. No excuses.
  • Our DL includes All BiG Mustipher + 5* Robinson, 4* Tarburton, etc. Again no excuses.
  • Our lack of experience at LB is clearly a recruiting failure. There's no excuse for LBU to be starting a low 3* and a converted safety.
  • I've never liked our strategy to always go for the explosive play on defense. How many interceptions or fumbles did we cause? I understand mixing it up but the blitzing is so frequent and predictable that opponents make adjustments. Yesterday OSU went to quick release passes in the middle of the field which was wide open and DBs were in man coverage. This even showed up on OSU's long TD run. Once the runner got past the LOS there was nobody to bring him down for 10+ yards. When we were still in the game OSU completed a 3rd and long by throwing to the space vacated by Carter on a blitz.
4 Star OL except Efner who is absolutely horrible. and, it is hard to believe that Wallace was almost a 5 Star coming out of hs. Although he may have been rated as an OG where he probably should be playing. Tangwell played OT his freshman year at OT and looked good. Hard to believe he can not be better at RT than Efner.

JF has to hit the portal more than one/two players per year, and get an OT for next year, especially if OLU leaves. Unless there is one waiting in the wings to take over. If so, he would be playing by now.

Mich St. only got "9 transfers" this year; they had 20 last year. And, we lost a pretty good DE from Phila for some unknown reason to Mich St. Couldn't qualify to get into PSU, but did with Mich St? Therein lies a problem to keep up with top tier Big 10 programs.
 

MacNit07

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I’ve learned everything I need to know about Franklin - Coach Mirage, 4-14 vs OSU and UM. I don’t need any more proof that he will never make PSU an elite program, or lately, even a contending program.
Agree. It is a done deal. 9 years is a sufficiently large enough sample size.
 

ShoreLion85

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It isn't when you don't have a quality win. We're hanging our hat on beating Purdue or Maryland? Come on
And who here is confident that we will beat Maryland? I’m certainly not - Coach Mirage has lost to them in the not so distant past. In fact, if it were a road game, I’d be quite confident we wouldn’t beat Maryland. We’ll go 9-3, because Coach Mirage always, as in every damn season, loses a game we aren’t supposed to lose: 2016: Pitt; 2017: MSU; 2018: Kentucky; 2019: Minnesota; 2020 and 21 to numerous to list. What makes anyone confident that history won’t repeat itself?
 

LandoComando

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And who here is confident that we will beat Maryland? I’m certainly not - Coach Mirage has lost to them in the not so distant past. In fact, if it were a road game, I’d be quite confident we wouldn’t beat Maryland. We’ll go 9-3, because Coach Mirage always, as in every damn season, loses a game we aren’t supposed to lose: 2016: Pitt; 2017: MSU; 2018: Kentucky; 2019: Minnesota; 2020 and 21 to numerous to list. What makes anyone confident that history won’t repeat itself?
But "expectations" should be built around "I expect to underachieve". Expectations are "we have more talent than everyone but Ohio State and maybe Michigan and therefore more than 2 losses isn't acceptable"

I believe we go 10-2 simply based on talent because the Big Ten is awful this year as is Auburn.
 

fastlax16

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And who here is confident that we will beat Maryland? I’m certainly not - Coach Mirage has lost to them in the not so distant past. In fact, if it were a road game, I’d be quite confident we wouldn’t beat Maryland. We’ll go 9-3, because Coach Mirage always, as in every damn season, loses a game we aren’t supposed to lose: 2016: Pitt; 2017: MSU; 2018: Kentucky; 2019: Minnesota; 2020 and 21 to numerous to list. What makes anyone confident that history won’t repeat itself?

so by your judgement 10-2 (if it happens) should represent an improvement over the past because it means, unlike the past, Franklin managed to not drop any games he was supposed to win, no?
 
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john4psu

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No - and that is perfectly illustrative of the Franklin era. No one believed we’d win, because under Coach Mirage, we don’t win games like this one. The fans didn’t believe we’d win; the students didn’t believe we’d win; the Admin, the AD, the coaching staff, the players, the alums watching on their TVs never believed wed win. And THAT is the problem! The Program is not capable of beating seriously good teams. Period. When is the last time we won as an underdog? 2016? We don’t win these games because we are not good enough to win these games. On-field, in practice, recruiting, S&C, administration, operations, Athletic Department management, etc. Not good enough. The next problem is having someone/someones doing something about it - or accepting our now 2nd tier status.
2021 on the road against a ranked Wisconsin team?
 

LandoComando

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so by your judgement 10-2 (if it happens) should represent an improvement over the past because it means, unlike the past, Franklin managed to not drop any games he was supposed to win, no?
That's setting the bar way too low
 

john4psu

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so by your judgement 10-2 (if it happens) should represent an improvement over the past because it means, unlike the past, Franklin managed to not drop any games he was supposed to win, no?
How would that NOT be an improvement over last year?
 

john4psu

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And who here is confident that we will beat Maryland? I’m certainly not - Coach Mirage has lost to them in the not so distant past. In fact, if it were a road game, I’d be quite confident we wouldn’t beat Maryland. We’ll go 9-3, because Coach Mirage always, as in every damn season, loses a game we aren’t supposed to lose: 2016: Pitt; 2017: MSU; 2018: Kentucky; 2019: Minnesota; 2020 and 21 to numerous to list. What makes anyone confident that history won’t repeat itself?
Doesn't Alabama or Clemson always lose one or more games they're not supposed to lose? They're favored in every game so unless they go undefeated, they will lose a game they're not supposed to lose.
 

john4psu

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Real record: 0-2 (again), not competing for the conference championship (again). But oh joy, we’ll probably beat Indiana and Rutgers. Some of us expect better from a program of Penn State’s (now former) stature and a coach making $8M plus per year.
So you only judge a season on how we do against Ohio State and Michigan. Go root for Clemson. They play nobody and win their conference every year. Go be happy.
 
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john4psu

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It is.

I believe it’s possible for it to be both disappointing to lose both um and osu and also an improvement to win 10 games instead of finishing 6-6. They’re not mutually exclusive perspectives.
COWjhiR.gif
 

Wallace Breen

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So they didn't try until the last 10 minutes? Get a clue.
That is not at all what I said. They played conservatively for three quarters. It is how they plus us every year with Day in charge. They sit and wait for mistakes. If they don't come, they turn to a higher risk approach and pull out the win in the fourth. We have a pretty sizeable sample at this point in time. You you need to take your own advice and get a clue.
 

LandoComando

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So you only judge a season on how we do against Ohio State and Michigan. Go root for Clemson. They play nobody and win their conference every year. Go be happy.
Go root for Clemson because we can't expect Penn State to improve?
Maybe you should watch little league because college football (even HS football) is clearly too competitive for you
 

ShoreLion85

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So you only judge a season on how we do against Ohio State and Michigan. Go root for Clemson. They play nobody and win their conference every year. Go be happy.
I judge every Big Ten season for PSU in exactly the same manner versus the 3 success metrics, because these are the only success metrics for a Big Ten team, and that is what we are since AUG of 1993. They are:

1. Beat UM
2. Beat Ohio State
3. Win the conference title

All else is either a means to an end, or window dressing to the ultimate objective. This season is a complete failure, as was last season. We lost to UM, we lost to OSU, we will not win the conference. 10-2, should it be achieved, is good only in that it is better than 9-3. A NY6 bowl that isn’t a playoff game is a televised exhibition game and aside from the fact that winning it is better than losing it, means nothing.

Coach Mirage is horrible at the only 3 success metrics ( and only these 3 are success metrics) and he’s even below average in meaningless bowl games at 3-4. He can’t even succeed when it doesn’t matter, much less when it does.

We are now a 2nd tier program, and it’s because of the hideous performance vs these 3 success metrics - and only 3, and only these 3.
 
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LandoComando

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Success should always be judged by
1) Did you win the conference?
2) Did you make the playoff?

If the answer is "no" to either you didn't do enough
 
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bdgan

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OSU is recruiting at a different level than PSU, on the defensive line anyway. I see michigan has done a better job of brining in higher ranked defensive lineman too. 2023 they have 2 stud DE that are above 250 pounds already.
OSU won because they have more quality depth through recruiting.
Nothing will change unless Franklin can lure in top DL talent to compete with OSU and michigan.
That's normally the case but logic says they have more kids leaving for the NFL and we have more kids that stay for 4 years. If that was true we should have a more experienced group of 3 & 4 star upperclassmen that could periodically pull off a win against their 4* underclassmen. That doesn't seem to be happening.

P.S. Our recruiting has been as good or better than UM's recruiting in recent years.
 

CJFisJoePaII

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PSU was winning the game with under 9 minuted remaining.

You're talking to an ASWP troll posing fan.... don't waste your time on this childish douchebag. He's been telling us all season how ASWP (you know , the team the season ranked and was projected to make it to the ACC Championship Game) could beat Purdue, Minny.... and win the b1g West. Not only did he claim it when ASWP was ranked, but doubled-down on this absurd claim as late as last week.... IOW, just prior to ASWP getting rolled again by another mediocre ACC team to go to 1-3 in the ACC and 4-4 overall LMAO. His latest lunatic mantra is that duhO$U gameplanned to be trailing with only 15% of the game remaining - this guy is such a laughable lunatic ASWP troll, it isn't even funny.
 

LionDeNittany

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Sadly, I agree. We are at PSU mediocrity. Do we settle for that or hire a Harbaugh or Urban Myer type? What is the cost of winning?

the only time we were close to elite is when we had a generational RB ( and we still blew big leads to Ohio state and USC)

Putting Harbaugh and Meyer in the same sentence is a joke.

Harbaugh, as much as we hate him, runs a good clean program.

Meyer is a pos.