We're about to learn a lot about Franklin and this team.

fastlax16

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since AUG of 1993.

We are now a 2nd tier program, and it’s because of the hideous performance vs these 3 success metrics - and only 3, and only these 3.

you say now a 2nd tier program as if that’s a recent development.

Please point us to the extended period of time we were not a 2nd tier program in the big ten by your metrics.

We've accomplished all three twice (94 and 08)
We've accomplish two out of three an additional two times (05 and 16)

4 times in 30 seasons has Penn State accomplished at least 2 of your 3 success metrics.

Failed to accomplish any of them 13 times (I won't count 2012 where we lost to OSU, didn't win the big ten but didn't play Michigan)

The longest streak of not accomplishing any of your three was 3 seasons in a row. 2002,2003,2004. Whoever that coach was f'ing sucked.

Longest streak of not accomplishing at least 2 of the 3 was 10 seasons in a row. 95-04. Another crappy coach.

Stop acting like the 94 team was trotting out of that tunnel every season until Franklin got here.
 
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tlbakernc

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We didn't almost win. At no point in the game did it look like we had a realistic chance of winning. Ohio State used the same conservative approach they used against Iowa, who has a considerably better defense than we do. As soon as they turned it on, it was over. They always had the ability to do that, they chose to play it safe like they always do when they play Penn State.
With all do respect, for 3/4 of the game we had a very realistic chance to win. OSU didn’t magically suddenly flip a switch. OSU didn’t come here playing it safe. Teams like OSU don’t play conservatively, then decide to hit go. They played to win from the start.

You’re never going to beat OSU with a QB responsible for 4 turnovers. Clifford isn’t the kind of QB to take us to the next level. Allar is exactly what this program needs going forward. I only hope they get him meaningful reps the remainder of season. I wouldn't mind seeing Franklin play 2 QBs rest of the way. It’s time to move on from Clifford. Always defended him until last few games. He’s regressing. Think his head is more concerned with his NIL company.
 
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CJFisJoePaII

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With all do respect, for 3/4 of the game we had a very realistic chance to win. OSU didn’t magically suddenly flip a switch. OSU didn’t come here playing it safe. Teams like OSU don’t play conservatively, then decide to hit go. They played to win from the start.

You’re never going to beat OSU with a QB responsible for 4 turnovers. Clifford isn’t the kind of QB to take us to the next level. Allar is exactly what this program needs going forward. I only hope they get him meaningful reps the remainder of season. I wouldn't mind seeing Franklin play 2 QBs rest of the way. It’s time to move on from Clifford. Always defended him until last few games. He’s regressing. Think his head is more concerned with his NIL company.

It was for a lot more than 3/4 of the game (i.e., 75%). PSU had a 5 point lead 6 minutes into the 4th Quarter (85% of the game). Just beyond silly to say that duhO$U gameplanned to be trailing by 5 through 85% of the game - but we're dealing with an idiotic, lunatic ASWP troll here....
 
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ryoder1

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That is not at all what I said. They played conservatively for three quarters. It is how they plus us every year with Day in charge. They sit and wait for mistakes. If they don't come, they turn to a higher risk approach and pull out the win in the fourth. We have a pretty sizeable sample at this point in time. You you need to take your own advice and get a clue.
That is wrong. They did not intend to be behind 5 with 9 minutes to go. What you are saying is they were in control the whole way and could have easily extended the lead on us at any time. Why didn't they just do it at halftime then? There was no more risk they were taking. Harrison was open all game long, 1st quarter and 4th quarter. #44 was as aggressive with the pick in the 1st quarter as the 4th. That was real conservative to not go for the FG and go for the TD at the end of the half. What happened there? Oh, they didn't want to take too much risk so Stroud decided to take a sack. It was adjustments and better talent wore us down. But to spout that they were just toying with us and playing conservative until the 4th makes no sense. Why would they do that? And they were not. Oh yeah and Clifford had a solid game in your opinion, everything is Franklin's fault on and on.
 
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ryoder1

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With all do respect, for 3/4 of the game we had a very realistic chance to win. OSU didn’t magically suddenly flip a switch. OSU didn’t come here playing it safe. Teams like OSU don’t play conservatively, then decide to hit go. They played to win from the start.

You’re never going to beat OSU with a QB responsible for 4 turnovers. Clifford isn’t the kind of QB to take us to the next level. Allar is exactly what this program needs going forward. I only hope they get him meaningful reps the remainder of season. I wouldn't mind seeing Franklin play 2 QBs rest of the way. It’s time to move on from Clifford. Always defended him until last few games. He’s regressing. Think his head is more concerned with his NIL company.
This guy is clueless. His whole platform is to demean PSU and give them no credit. When we win the team we beat is so bad the little sisters of the poor could beat them. When we lose, the team is one of the worst and Franklin's completely incompetent and in a game against an elite opponent where we keep it close we get the zinger of a narrative where O$U played conservative and let PSU stay in the game until they decided to get serious. Joke.
 

Wallace Breen

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This guy is clueless. His whole platform is to demean PSU and give them no credit. When we win the team we beat is so bad the little sisters of the poor could beat them. When we lose, the team is one of the worst and Franklin's completely incompetent and in a game against an elite opponent where we keep it close we get the zinger of a narrative where O$U played conservative and let PSU stay in the game until they decided to get serious. Joke.
You have no idea what you are talking about and clearly never played or coached football. You can't argue with me because you know I am right and the evidence backs it up in spades. Deny all you want. OSU played conservatively. When we outperformed expectations they flicked the switch and put us away, just like they did several other times over the last few years. The trend says you are wrong.
 

ryoder1

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You are a clown that clearly knows nothing. You can't argue with me because you know I am right and the evidence backs it up in spades. Deny all you want. Get a clue.
There is no evidence and you never have any. Clueless is all over you. You are not a fan or even remotely knowledgeable. Just an ignorant, bitter person.
 

Jerry

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Unlike when we got blown out by Michigan, our kids competed with one of the top four teams in the nation. Winning out and playing in a major bowl is a key to success for future teams. We all have to admit SC is not good enough to be at the Ohio state level. We are playing two true freshmen running backs. We are not deep at OL or on the front seven on D.

everyone expected to lose and possibly by a wide margin. It is interesting that playing and almost winning seems to actually be worse than getting blown out

Totally fair point. My recollection of a prediction thread in August is that very few people -- I think maybe nobody -- had us figured for 10-2.

Moreover, almost everyone had penciled Michigan and Ohio State in the loss column.

The frustration for me is how we lost both those games...how familiar the story is...getting manhandled and blown out by Michigan at their place...and blowing a 4th-quarter lead with collapses on both D and O against Ohio State. It's getting pretty tiresome.

I think 10-2 with a nice bowl win would be a huge achievement for a team that is still relatively young. But getting the next four wins is anything but automatic. We're going to have to show up and not do the mopey thing we've been known to do after tough losses. It starts at Indiana where we're early 14-point favorites.

The thing is, the way things stand, 9-3, which might have looked quite decent in August, is not going to cut it now. We'll be favorites in the next four games. We should win them, and if we don't, there will be no excuses.
 
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MacNit07

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Totally fair point. My recollection of a prediction thread in August is that very few people -- I think maybe nobody -- had us figured for 10-2.

Moreover, almost everyone had penciled Michigan and Ohio State in the loss column.

The frustration for me is how we lost both those games...how familiar the story is...getting manhandled and blown out by Michigan at their place...and blowing a 4th-quarter lead with collapses on both D and O against Ohio State. It's getting pretty tiresome.

I think 10-2 with a nice bowl win would be a huge achievement for a team that is still relatively young. But getting the next four wins is anything but automatic. We're going to have to show up and not do the mopey thing we've been known to do after tough losses. It starts at Indiana where we're early 14-point favorites.

The thing is, the way things stand, 9-3, which might have looked quite decent in August, is not going to cut it now. We'll be favorites in the next four games. We should win them, and if we don't, there will be no excuses.
Oh there will be plenty of excuses…there has been for 9 straight years.
 
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CJFisJoePaII

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Totally fair point. My recollection of a prediction thread in August is that very few people -- I think maybe nobody -- had us figured for 10-2.

Moreover, almost everyone had penciled Michigan and Ohio State in the loss column.

The frustration for me is how we lost both those games...how familiar the story is...getting manhandled and blown out by Michigan at their place...and blowing a 4th-quarter lead with collapses on both D and O against Ohio State. It's getting pretty tiresome.

I think 10-2 with a nice bowl win would be a huge achievement for a team that is still relatively young. But getting the next four wins is anything but automatic. We're going to have to show up and not do the mopey thing we've been known to do after tough losses. It starts at Indiana where we're early 14-point favorites.

The thing is, the way things stand, 9-3, which might have looked quite decent in August, is not going to cut it now. We'll be favorites in the next four games. We should win them, and if we don't, there will be no excuses.

I think your last point is very fair - if CJF gets the team to 10-2 and a NY6 Bowl, it's absurd to say it wasn't a very good year by CJF (especially if they win the bowl); however, another loss would be extremely disappointing as it evaporates a NY6 Bowl bid.
 

manilion

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I think your last point is very fair - if CJF gets the team to 10-2 and a NY6 Bowl, it's absurd to say it wasn't a very good year by CJF (especially if they win the bowl); however, another loss would be extremely disappointing as it evaporates a NY6 Bowl bid.
10 wins looks good on paper. Not one of those wins would be against a top 25 level team. That’s how Franklin does it.
 
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fastlax16

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10 wins looks good on paper. Not one of those wins would be against a top 25 level team. That’s how Franklin does it.

Down year for the big ten. Maryland could be ranked in two weeks (they're 28th at the moment)

6 of Joe's last 10 seasons had no regular season wins against ranked teams, including Joe's final 10 win season, 2009.
 
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fastlax16

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Joe's final decade should not be the benchmark for anything

yes, he had an amazing run in '05, which is also when he had to prove he could still do it or he was going, but, a lot of very forgettable seasons in there

Not the point. The point was we haven't been beating ranked opponents on a monthly basis in over 25 years despite one poster attempting to act like we did until the current coach got here and then backtracking.
 
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LandoComando

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Not the point. The point was we haven't been beating ranked opponents on a monthly basis in over 25 years despite one poster attempting to act like we did until the current coach got here and then backtracking.
What's Franklin's record against ranked teams?
 

jbenedict

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10 wins looks good on paper. Not one of those wins would be against a top 25 level team. That’s how Franklin does it.
Unfortunately you are right. How good things would be if we weren't in the toughest (BIG eastern conference). We could really talk delusional smack/ Just imagine.
 
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john4psu

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I judge every Big Ten season for PSU in exactly the same manner versus the 3 success metrics, because these are the only success metrics for a Big Ten team, and that is what we are since AUG of 1993. They are:

1. Beat UM
2. Beat Ohio State
3. Win the conference title

All else is either a means to an end, or window dressing to the ultimate objective. This season is a complete failure, as was last season. We lost to UM, we lost to OSU, we will not win the conference. 10-2, should it be achieved, is good only in that it is better than 9-3. A NY6 bowl that isn’t a playoff game is a televised exhibition game and aside from the fact that winning it is better than losing it, means nothing.

Coach Mirage is horrible at the only 3 success metrics ( and only these 3 are success metrics) and he’s even below average in meaningless bowl games at 3-4. He can’t even succeed when it doesn’t matter, much less when it does.

We are now a 2nd tier program, and it’s because of the hideous performance vs these 3 success metrics - and only 3, and only these 3.
I understand you can't handle losing. All your life you've been given a participation trophy even when you may have sucked at something to make you feel good.

Welcome to the "real" real world. If you can't handle losing as a fan, maybe you should take up knitting or something.
 

bono47

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We didn't almost win. At no point in the game did it look like we had a realistic chance of winning. Ohio State used the same conservative approach they used against Iowa, who has a considerably better defense than we do. As soon as they turned it on, it was over. They always had the ability to do that, they chose to play it safe like they always do when they play Penn State.
 

bono47

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Bottom line is this is yet another game - the number of which has to be in double digits - where PSU under Franklin has a lead and blows it in the 4th with a monumental collapse. It is beyond a trend now. This is the make-up of this program now. It is a loser mentality and non-belief which seeps in regardless of players or opponent or scenario. Psu will find a way to lose with Franklin in top 10 games. This guy ain't taking PSU anywhere but to mediocrity. Almost a decade of choking is unquestionable.

Insanity is doing the same thing again and again and expecting different results.
 
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LandoComando

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I understand you can't handle losing. All your life you've been given a participation trophy even when you may have sucked at something to make you feel good.

Welcome to the "real" real world. If you can't handle losing as a fan, maybe you should take up knitting or something.
You realize it's you that sounds like participation trophies matter, right?
 

cment

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Doesn't Alabama or Clemson always lose one or more games they're not supposed to lose? They're favored in every game so unless they go undefeated, they will lose a game they're not supposed to lose.
Rarely. And when they do, they get back on the horse and throttle fist the following games to the playoff.
 

Marylovesthelions

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Sadly, I agree. We are at PSU mediocrity. Do we settle for that or hire a Harbaugh or Urban Myer type? What is the cost of winning?

the only time we were close to elite is when we had a generational RB ( and we still blew big leads to Ohio state and USC)
When you mention the cost of winning I hope you're not impuning the integrity of Harbaugh. As much as I hated Michigan in the past, in my humble opinion Harbaugh has shown to be one of the most principled coaches at any level at any sport.
I will never change my opinion that trying to get a huge raise after your team had a losing season is a sign of very low moral character. It show 0, accountabilty & loyalty to the program.
 

LandoComando

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we all want it

i feel like once your school gets there, though, it really isn't as awesome as you think it would be
It's even more frustrating when you lose but I'd rather have that and strive for titles than right now where we just hope we don't get embarrassed against top tier teams.
 

Obliviax

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When you mention the cost of winning I hope you're not impuning the integrity of Harbaugh. As much as I hated Michigan in the past, in my humble opinion Harbaugh has shown to be one of the most principled coaches at any level at any sport.
I will never change my opinion that trying to get a huge raise after your team had a losing season is a sign of very low moral character. It show 0, accountabilty & loyalty to the program.
Did you hear him trash Franklin regarding the shoving match at halftime of our game? His comments were pretty bush league. Especially since they had the problem last year versus OSU and again last week versus Sparty.
 

PSUSignore

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Sadly, I agree. We are at PSU mediocrity
There are 131 NCAA football teams. Over 100 of them would love to be in PSU's position... ranked with a very attainable opportunity for a 10-2 season and a NY6 bowl game. How mediocre. You guys need to step off the ledge and get some perspective.
 

Obliviax

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There are 131 NCAA football teams. Over 100 of them would love to be in PSU's position... ranked with a very attainable opportunity for a 10-2 season and a NY6 bowl game. How mediocre. You guys need to step off the ledge and get some perspective.
Well, I don't really aspire to be Boston College or even Oklahoma State. I aspire to be contending for a MNC from time to time. I expect to be top ten.

I don't expect to get blown out by UM (two years in a row) and continue to lose to tOSU. On top of that, I never expect to lose to Illinois, Indiana or even Michigan State.

So while I hear what you are saying, I also feel that we are settling for a mediocre year after three really miserable years. To pay a guy $8m to coach this up is sad. We can get that for 1/4 of the price.