What Happened to our WRs?

[ryoder1]

It is a consensus on this board and not on this board that our WR room is lousy and the weakest position group for at least the 2nd straight year if not third? Why??

If we have good WRs or at least a stud #1 then we most likely beat OSU. We were up 10-0 and with at least one WR who can get open it then would have freed up Warren and you have the positive domino effect.

I'm just wondering what the heck happened? It is amazing to me that we have elite level guys all over the field yet we have a horrible WR room. A football program of our caliber and this what we get at WR?? We have recruited decently, I think, at least better than our on field performance. KLS, Wallace, Evans, Saunders were all 4 stars I believe. KLS just disappeared the second half last season but even vs OSU last year he was a complete non factor.

Fleming does very little for us. Yes he caught the 2 huge 4th down passes vs USC but overall has been a disappointment. He was much better at OSU then gets to PSU and very little production. Since WVU the WRs have done very little.

I guess it is a bad combination of no development, overrated coming out of high school/poor talent evaluation and bad coaching.

In my mind it is the reason we are not an elite team. I know our D can be a little suspect but nothing like the WRs.

I have no idea how good Denmark is and Gonzalez got hurt so the '24 class is a big question mark. We have some pretty highly regarded '25 guys but we have heard that empty promise before.

For next season if we could somehow keep Allar and grab the very best portal WR available then we could be right in the mix again. That and making a change at WR coach. These kind of results are unacceptable and there needs to be accountability and consequences.

 

[Safety Blitz]

Couple things:
— Allar is going to the draft. He has the NFL physical skill set to be selected in the first or early second round. Makes too much sense to start his clock toward a second NFL contract where the big money gets paid.
— If you were a WR in the portal with NFL aspirations, would you do anything but laugh if someone suggested looking at PSU? Why would any wide receiver consider PSU with the current staff’s development record. You would be much better off taking fewer NIL $$$ to become the third/fourth/fifth receiver at a strong passing game school, learn something, and portal again from there.

 

[ram2020]

Its shocking and unacceptable. Franklin has done very many good things with this program and deserves credit, but as a HC with a NFL level experience coaching WR's, I'm perplexed how bad that position group has been during his
tenure. I'll argue the other side with the poster above, if you were a high level reciever, maybe penn state is the perfect place. Hear me out.....you'll play early and often if you are talented, this is a top 10 program missing you, one part, to get over the hurdle. You can go to OSU or
Bama and be one of many, or come here and be THE GUY. I don't know, I can't figure any of it.

 

[sss]

With all this discussion, PSU has more WR in the NFL now than ever under Paterno. Fleming was not better at OSU. He was the 3rd option his last year, and that was due to an injury.

 

[Rip_E_2_Joe_PA]

What happened... Our number 1 is Tyler Warren and number 2s are running backs. Watch the game and read the stats. Last year PSU had an abomination for an OC and KLS gave up on the team in frustration. His stats at Auburn are good but not great. As for Fleming, why PSU brought him in except for down field blocking and to perhaps appease some PSU fans, I will never know.

 

[LMTLION]

Its shocking and unacceptable. Franklin has done very many good things with this program and deserves credit, but as a HC with a NFL level experience coaching WR's, I'm perplexed how bad that position group has been during his
tenure. I'll argue the other side with the poster above, if you were a high level reciever, maybe penn state is the perfect place. Hear me out.....you'll play early and often if you are talented, this is a top 10 program missing you, one part, to get over the hurdle. You can go to OSU or
Bama and be one of many, or come here and be THE GUY. I don't know, I can't figure any of it.

Prior to the past two seasons, we were producing more NFL WR talent over the prior 8-10 years than we ever had. It has been very strange since Dotson and Washington left. I think even if we had one of those two this season, we beat OSU. I could not imagine this team with Dotson and Warren paired up! We’d be unstoppable.

 

[LMTLION]

What happened... Our number 1 is Tyler Warren and number 2s are running backs. Watch the game and read the stats. Last year PSU had an abomination for an OC and KLS gave up on the team in frustration. His stats at Auburn are good but not great. As for Fleming, why PSU brought him in except for down field blocking and to perhaps appease some PSU fans, I will never know.

I think Fleming had more opportunities at OSU because the other WR‘s had to be double teamed. I appreciate that he came over to PSU, but he does not have the speed to be a WR 1 at the college level. I don’t think he beats Tyler Warren in a foot race.

 

[ddf-rpm]

I think Fleming had more opportunities at OSU because the other WR‘s had to be double teamed. I appreciate that he came over to PSU, but he does not have the speed to be a WR 1 at the college level. I don’t think he beats Tyler Warren in a foot race.

 

[ddf-rpm]

THEY SHOULD TRY TO PUT LUKE REYNOLDS AT WR. SOME TIMES

 

[Rip_E_2_Joe_PA]

THEY SHOULD TRY TO PUT LUKE REYNOLDS AT WR. SOME TIMES

Reynolds and Dinkins...

 

[PSU20]

What happened... Our number 1 is Tyler Warren and number 2s are running backs. Watch the game and read the stats. Last year PSU had an abomination for an OC and KLS gave up on the team in frustration. His stats at Auburn are good but not great. As for Fleming, why PSU brought him in except for down field blocking and to perhaps appease some PSU fans, I will never know.

KLS stats may not be great at Auburn, since I haven't looked closely, but they are significantly better than any of our WR's this year. I did note that he had some "lights out" games this year. IIRC, he had 6 catches with a TD Saturday. That's more than our entire team did, other than Warren.

Mind boggling than JF puts up with this lack of development. He stated that5 Saturday was one of the best overall performances this year. Hard to believe no one asked about the pathetic WR play or lack thereof. How many OC did he let go, yet keeps this lack-luster WR Coach.

 

[olelion]

TIt is a consensus on this board and not on this board that our WR room is lousy and the weakest position group for at least the 2nd straight year if not third? Why??

If we have good WRs or at least a stud #1 then we most likely beat OSU. We were up 10-0 and with at least one WR who can get open it then would have freed up Warren and you have the positive domino effect.

I'm just wondering what the heck happened? It is amazing to me that we have elite level guys all over the field yet we have a horrible WR room. A football program of our caliber and this what we get at WR?? We have recruited decently, I think, at least better than our on field performance. KLS, Wallace, Evans, Saunders were all 4 stars I believe. KLS just disappeared the second half last season but even vs OSU last year he was a complete non factor.

Fleming does very little for us. Yes he caught the 2 huge 4th down passes vs USC but overall has been a disappointment. He was much better at OSU then gets to PSU and very little production. Since WVU the WRs have done very little.

I guess it is a bad combination of no development, overrated coming out of high school/poor talent evaluation and bad coaching.

In my mind it is the reason we are not an elite team. I know our D can be a little suspect but nothing like the WRs.

I have no idea how good Denmark is and Gonzalez got hurt so the '24 class is a big question mark. We have some pretty highly regarded '25 guys but we have heard that empty promise before.

For next season if we could somehow keep Allar and grab the very best portal WR available then we could be right in the mix again. That and making a change at WR coach. These kind of results are unacceptable and there needs to be accountability and consequences.

the wide receivers receivers coach was Josh Gattis back in 2017-2018 time frame but. I remember DaeSean Hamilton being on the Denver Broncos. I recall an article about him and a Denver coach quoted as saying the Penn State guys were great route runners, a testament to their coaching

 

[joeaubie21]

Couple things:
— Allar is going to the draft. He has the NFL physical skill set to be selected in the first or early second round. Makes too much sense to start his clock toward a second NFL contract where the big money gets paid.
— If you were a WR in the portal with NFL aspirations, would you do anything but laugh if someone suggested looking at PSU? Why would any wide receiver consider PSU with the current staff’s development record. You would be much better off taking fewer NIL $$$ to become the third/fourth/fifth receiver at a strong passing game school, learn something, and portal again from there.

Grunt!!!

 

[proud2bpsufan]

I think a big question about recruiting for consensus top 20 talent at any position is "What has your program done the last few seasons at my position?" Anything beyond 3 years ago is probably ancient to these kids coming out of high school. Here is PSU's production ranking for the top two WR's the last 3 seasons.

2024 (#130 Harrison Wallace, #383 Liam Clifford)
2023 (#121 KLS, #552 D. Cephas)
2022 (#157 P. Washington, #177 M. Tinsley)

These poor production numbers have to keep PSU in a perpetual loop of top talent avoiding the program. It's the easiest way to negative recruit against a program like PSU. Why does PSU keep getting top TE talent every year? Because the TE's produce high end numbers and end up going to the NFL.

 

[tboyer]

It is a consensus on this board and not on this board that our WR room is lousy and the weakest position group for at least the 2nd straight year if not third? Why??

A couple things to keep in mind.

1) PSU is really just 1 player (a true No. 1) away from having a solid wideout group. Wallace, Evans, Clifford and Fleming are all good players and have improved a lot this year. I think Wallace especially is better than people give him credit for. Clifford has developed into a very good possession receiver.
2) Statistically the wides look worse than they are because Warren and the running backs are so good in the passing game they consume a lot of targets. And Warren is often schemed as the No. 1 option so he'll get the ball even if Wallace is wide open. A lot of plays Wallace is just a decoy and the other wides are blockers.
3) Allar is ultra-careful with the ball and doesn't risk a throw to the wides if they don't have 2 yards of separation. Against 90% of the teams on PSU's schedule that works fine because PSU has other offensive options. But against top competition it bites them. If you look at an NFL game or a game between top 5 football teams, a lot of times throws are being made to extremely tight windows or back-shoulder throws with minimal separation. PSU doesn't even try -- and that's not really the wideouts' fault. Allar doesn't trust the wides enough and that's partly because they haven't developed the trust on the field.

 

[ejb25]

Not saying this is the problem, but it certainly doesn't help that West Virginia and Maryland outbid us for transfer wide receivers. I don't see anything changing unless we can somehow acquire talent.

 

[PSU20]

KLS - this year: 40 receptions, 8 TD's, average 19 yards a catch, 19 career TD's, 2482 career yards.

Wallace - this year: 31 receptions, 3 TD's, 5 career TD's, 1034 career yards.

Imagine if we had KLS back this year with Allar. A couple years back when we defeated Auburn, their Head Coach fired his WR Coach the next day or so because their WR's were not getting separation. Their 2025 Class has one of the best WR recruiting in the country with a horrible record this year.

What the hell is JF doing putting up with this kind of piss poor production from this WR group? He fires OC but doesn't even address the horrible development of our WR's. We are not going anywhere in the playoffs with this group of WR's, not going to happen.

 

[PSU20]

And, I believe Payton Thorne is still starting at QB who is average or below at best!

 

[SLion]

Perhaps I see things differently, we lost our usual close game to OSU bc of stupid penalties, bad drop here and there and dumb RZ play calling. Tyler Warren is essentially a WR bc of speed and athleticism. AK is using WRs to draw defenders so that Tyler gets one on one. There has been a HUGE improvement in WR blocking. Passing to RB out of backfield - HUGE improvement. Those were two of Franklin's blind spots. KLS was horrendous in that regard and not physical downfield. Wallace abused WVU, Clifford had over 100 in flat effort vs UCLA and we lose to USC without Fleming's two 4th down catches. The days of 1000 yard receiver like Godwin or Robinson are over. I think need to look closer rather than stats.

 

[PSU20]

Perhaps I see things differently, we lost our usual close game to OSU bc of stupid penalties, bad drop here and there and dumb RZ play calling. Tyler Warren is essentially a WR bc of speed and athleticism. AK is using WRs to draw defenders so that Tyler gets one on one. There has been a HUGE improvement in WR blocking. Passing to RB out of backfield - HUGE improvement. Those were two of Franklin's blind spots. KLS was horrendous in that regard and not physical downfield. Wallace abused WVU, Clifford had over 100 in flat effort vs UCLA and we lose to USC without Fleming's two 4th down catches. The days of 1000 yard receiver like Godwin or Robinson are over. I think need to look closer rather than stats.

Yes, but we lost the OSU game since they had a simple game plan: take Warren out of the offense and PSU has nothing else to counter. I don't know the stats, but even Purdue's WR's looked better than ours. IIRC Wallace had about 2 catches, the second one was a gimmie by the safety. Did any other WR's do any thing during a game with a very sub par team.

JF has shown that he had virtually given up on developing WR's. Just look at what he has offered already for the 2026 class. These are individuals that you offer at the end of the recruiting cycle when all the top WR's are off the board.....

 

[proud2bpsufan]

Perhaps I see things differently, we lost our usual close game to OSU bc of stupid penalties, bad drop here and there and dumb RZ play calling. Tyler Warren is essentially a WR bc of speed and athleticism. AK is using WRs to draw defenders so that Tyler gets one on one. There has been a HUGE improvement in WR blocking. Passing to RB out of backfield - HUGE improvement. Those were two of Franklin's blind spots. KLS was horrendous in that regard and not physical downfield. Wallace abused WVU, Clifford had over 100 in flat effort vs UCLA and we lose to USC without Fleming's two 4th down catches. The days of 1000 yard receiver like Godwin or Robinson are over. I think need to look closer rather than stats.

Interesting observations. Do you think the change in strategy of targeting WR's to start the season to more Warren in the mid to later season is because Warren is just that good as a "big man WR" or because our WR's were showing they couldn't get open enough against better defenses? Also, do you think Wallace, Evans, Fleming and Clifford are more possession type receivers and can't really make things happen after the catch in the same way Warren is able to make big plays happen?

 

[SLion]

Yes, but we lost the OSU game since they had a simple game plan: take Warren out of the offense and PSU has nothing else to counter. I don't know the stats, but even Purdue's WR's looked better than ours. IIRC Wallace had about 2 catches, the second one was a gimmie by the safety. Did any other WR's do any thing during a game with a very sub par team.

JF has shown that he had virtually given up on developing WR's. Just look at what he has offered already for the 2026 class. These are individuals that you offer at the end of the recruiting cycle when all the top WR's are off the board.....

Purdue got trounced by 39 points so not really important that their WRs got open on some plays. It was woodshed game and we substituted freely. I did not like the drops by young WRs but better to learn now.

I think OSU is just that good in terms of speed and athleticism in secondary. We could not run the ball either so not just WRs. When you can't run then it gets harder to pass, especially against elite teams. We got ball inside 5 twice. OSU player made insane clutch play/INT that just seem to happen every game against them. Not giving the ball to Warren in RZ was acknowledged as dumb.

I agree that WR recruiting is really bad but I also know that PSU's success and AK's offensive mind will attract some major talent. It will come. Next year will be completely different team with Beau (unless he transfers). We shall see.

 

[PSU20]

Purdue got trounced by 39 points so not really important that their WRs got open on some plays. It was woodshed game and we substituted freely. I did not like the drops by young WRs but better to learn now.

I think OSU is just that good in terms of speed and athleticism in secondary. We could not run the ball either so not just WRs. When you can't run then it gets harder to pass, especially against elite teams. We got ball inside 5 twice. OSU player made insane clutch play/INT that just seem to happen every game against them. Not giving the ball to Warren in RZ was acknowledged as dumb.

I agree that WR recruiting is really bad but I also know that PSU's success and AK's offensive mind will attract some major talent. It will come. Next year will be completely different team with Beau (unless he transfers). We shall see.

Against one of the worst teams in the country, our WR's has "3 receptions" 2 for Wallace (blown coverage) and one for Evans for "2 yards." JF said it was one of the best overall performances this year. "James" your WR's are non existent, and you are not going anywhere in the playoffs if you Do Not fix the problem. Fire the WR Coach or recruit 4-5 star WR's like OSU does, not like the ones you have recruited for 2026!

 

[SLion]

Interesting observations. Do you think the change in strategy of targeting WR's to start the season to more Warren in the mid to later season is because Warren is just that good as a "big man WR" or because our WR's were showing they couldn't get open enough against better defenses? Also, do you think Wallace, Evans, Fleming and Clifford are more possession type receivers and can't really make things happen after the catch in the same way Warren is able to make big plays happen?

I think AK has field talent that he never witnessed previously at Kansas. This is a run first team. He is spreading ball and using different formations to get playmakers in the best possible situation. I think he is very crafty at reading the defense and exposing match-ups. I think Wallace has been damn fine at making plays when called upon to do so. If you look at core of Wallace/Clifford/Evans/Fleming then they have over 70 recs/1200 yards combined. Warren could get to 90 recs/1K yards with two games left. Allen and Singleton have about 36 recs for 350. I personally don't care if one WR gets to 1200 yards or 3 combine for it. It is working now. We are getting the necessary production. We might not be elite enough at WR but we may be able to get by if OL and RBs can generate some 1st down yards. We did not do that against OSU. Allar running had been a difference maker too. Let's get to CFP and see what happens. If we can heal, get Winston back, perhaps Andrew R. then allow AK some strategy time then I am not worried about WRs right now.

 

[SLion]

Against one of the worst teams in the country, our WR's has "3 receptions" 2 for Wallace (blown coverage) and one for Evans for "2 yards." JF said it was one of the best overall performances this year. "James" your WR's are non existent, and you are not going anywhere in the playoffs if you Do Not fix the problem. Fire the WR Coach or recruit 4-5 star WR's like OSU does, not like the ones you have recruited for 2026!

Hagans just got here a year ago. He is very well respected. I think we will get WR stud from MD/VA/DC area. Outten is ATH/WR. I think Butgers landed 4 star commit VA WR in 2026. I would bet money that that kid goes elsewhere. Part of our problem may be Beau taking over and seen as running QB. Lots of top talent want to play immediately like Smith at OSU

Against PU, our AA TE ran for a TD and so did our backup QB. We ran over them so why worry about receptions. If they can't stop you continue to punish them. Blown coverage is still a long explosive play for WR. We confused hell out of them. That is what AK does. I don't worry about WR stats in game like that. And most CFP team have a loss. Oregon was on ropes against 4 loss UW team. They have no QB or passing game...at all. PSU will do something in the playoffs. We get a home game in freezing cold then I like our chances. Stadium will be rocking. Are we good enough to beat TX, OSU, OR, GA, ALABAMA..maybe not.

 

[WaffleShopper]

I think AK has field talent that he never witnessed previously at Kansas. This is a run first team. He is spreading ball and using different formations to get playmakers in the best possible situation. I think he is very crafty at reading the defense and exposing match-ups. I think Wallace has been damn fine at making plays when called upon to do so. If you look at core of Wallace/Clifford/Evans/Fleming then they have over 70 recs/1200 yards combined. Warren could get to 90 recs/1K yards with two games left. Allen and Singleton have about 36 recs for 350. I personally don't care if one WR gets to 1200 yards or 3 combine for it. It is working now. We are getting the necessary production. We might not be elite enough at WR but we may be able to get by if OL and RBs can generate some 1st down yards. We did not do that against OSU. Allar running had been a difference maker too. Let's get to CFP and see what happens. If we can heal, get Winston back, perhaps Andrew R. then allow AK some strategy time then I am not worried about WRs right now.

I agree with most of this but I don't think there's much chance of getting KJ back this year. Even if he's 100% before the playoffs he's most likely going to sit and focus on getting drafted. It's unfortunate because he is a difference maker on D and could help a ton.

 

[SLion]

I agree with most of this but I don't think there's much chance of getting KJ back this year. Even if he's 100% before the playoffs he's most likely going to sit and focus on getting drafted. It's unfortunate because he is a difference maker on D and could help a ton.

Probably but usually JF states 'out for year' in those cases but he has not. If KJ can heal and practice by Dec then no reason to believe that he would sit out for CFP. The kid wants to play. I have no doubt about that. I can't imagine what is like. sitting on sidelines every game.

 

[ryoder1]

Couple things:
— Allar is going to the draft. He has the NFL physical skill set to be selected in the first or early second round. Makes too much sense to start his clock toward a second NFL contract where the big money gets paid.
— If you were a WR in the portal with NFL aspirations, would you do anything but laugh if someone suggested looking at PSU? Why would any wide receiver consider PSU with the current staff’s development record. You would be much better off taking fewer NIL $$$ to become the third/fourth/fifth receiver at a strong passing game school, learn something, and portal again from there.

You're probably right about Allar. Not sure what you're implying on your second point? We never will get or have a strong WR? Really negative, defeatist take.

 

[LandoComando]

You're probably right about Allar. Not sure what you're implying on your second point? We never will get or have a strong WR? Really negative, defeatist take.

Their point is reasonable though especially with Allar likely gone
Fleming came here and..,nothing
Kids in the portal want to get additional exposure along with cash.
Ideally we'd land some top tier recruits but the portal won't be easy for us IMO

 

[ryoder1]

Their point is reasonable though especially with Allar likely gone
Fleming came here and..,nothing
Kids in the portal want to get additional exposure along with cash.
Ideally we'd land some top tier recruits but the portal won't be easy for us IMO

Yeah but to just say no kid will ever want to play here who has realistic NFL aspirations is overly pessimistic. We have to hit one at some point through NIL, diamond in the rough kid, new WR coach whatever. Not saying we will be close to OSU's level but to think we are doomed at the position forever is absurd.

 

[bdroc]

It is a consensus on this board and not on this board that our WR room is lousy and the weakest position group for at least the 2nd straight year if not third? Why??

If we have good WRs or at least a stud #1 then we most likely beat OSU. We were up 10-0 and with at least one WR who can get open it then would have freed up Warren and you have the positive domino effect.

I'm just wondering what the heck happened? It is amazing to me that we have elite level guys all over the field yet we have a horrible WR room. A football program of our caliber and this what we get at WR?? We have recruited decently, I think, at least better than our on field performance. KLS, Wallace, Evans, Saunders were all 4 stars I believe. KLS just disappeared the second half last season but even vs OSU last year he was a complete non factor.

Fleming does very little for us. Yes he caught the 2 huge 4th down passes vs USC but overall has been a disappointment. He was much better at OSU then gets to PSU and very little production. Since WVU the WRs have done very little.

I guess it is a bad combination of no development, overrated coming out of high school/poor talent evaluation and bad coaching.

In my mind it is the reason we are not an elite team. I know our D can be a little suspect but nothing like the WRs.

I have no idea how good Denmark is and Gonzalez got hurt so the '24 class is a big question mark. We have some pretty highly regarded '25 guys but we have heard that empty promise before.

For next season if we could somehow keep Allar and grab the very best portal WR available then we could be right in the mix again. That and making a change at WR coach. These kind of results are unacceptable and there needs to be accountability and consequences.

I thought last year's 3 WR recruits were all mid 3*.

 

[RickinDayton]

I think AK has field talent that he never witnessed previously at Kansas. This is a run first team. He is spreading ball and using different formations to get playmakers in the best possible situation. I think he is very crafty at reading the defense and exposing match-ups. I think Wallace has been damn fine at making plays when called upon to do so. If you look at core of Wallace/Clifford/Evans/Fleming then they have over 70 recs/1200 yards combined. Warren could get to 90 recs/1K yards with two games left. Allen and Singleton have about 36 recs for 350. I personally don't care if one WR gets to 1200 yards or 3 combine for it. It is working now. We are getting the necessary production. We might not be elite enough at WR but we may be able to get by if OL and RBs can generate some 1st down yards. We did not do that against OSU. Allar running had been a difference maker too. Let's get to CFP and see what happens. If we can heal, get Winston back, perhaps Andrew R. then allow AK some strategy time then I am not worried about WRs right now.

Winston and Andrew R coming back seems is about 1% chance.