What's Wrong with our vertical passing game?

[steelhead52]

Overall, not too much to complain about so far this year. Yeah McSorley had an off week against Pitt perhaps. But my concern is not seeing explosive plays with the vertical passing game so far this year. Add to it comments from Narduzzi how they shut down our #1 receiver easily and it makes me mad because he didn't mention how PSU shutdown their All American with 0 yards from scrimmage, but it does make me wonder what is going on. Can't Johnson who we heard so much about pre-season get open or separation? Where is Blacknall? Is it that other teams have seen us once and are better prepared or is it that the focus of the offense is basically taking what the defense is giving? Never the less, It sure would be nice to see some explosive pass plays to the WRs. I would hate to think OSU and Mich could shut down our vertical passing that easily since they each have great front 7s on defense. I really like how our WRs are blocking and blocking on the perimeter has been excellent overall for SB. But OSU and Mich have much better perimeter players than Pitt, so it does concern me that the vertical game hasn't yet clicked or perhaps maybe intentionally not been utilized to this point. Just like Coach said, we need to have someone on KO and Punt returns that strikes fear into the opposition, fear from our vertical passing game is even a bigger deal to me. Any thoughts?

 

[LionJim]

We won by 52 and by 19. Nothing much wrong at the moment. McSorley needs to tighten up his throws but that doesn't mean anything's wrong right now.

 

[tboyer]

I think Franklin kind of answered this at the press conference. The PSU offense is designed to put the ball where the defense isn't.

If a defense wants to take away something, and deploys defenders, Moorhead isn't going to force it, he'll just take the ball somewhere else.

Remember how stubborn Paterno would get -- he wanted to win moral victories as well as games. Paterno sometimes wanted to beat the strength of another team - and sometimes it worked and sometimes, on the goalline, PSU ran four plays to the middle of the defense and didn't get the TD.

The current philosophy couldn't be more different. Pitt worked hard to take away downfield passing, so PSU scores an easy TD throwing the ball Barkley out of the backfield. Whatever it takes.

I'm not worried about downfield passing. I'm a bit more worried about getting push up front for the running game.

PSU really needs to have a running game this year and if they don't, it's not going to be like last year because teams are going to defend the passing game better. If PSU can't run the ball on 3rd and 2 this year, it's gonna cost them games.

 

[Mister Magoo]

I called Al Davis. His reply; "Just win baby!"

 

[ram2020]

Simple against Pitt, we didn't really try it, which was confounding to me. They had all of their engenders close to the box last week and they were playing press coverage on the outside. It seemed like a few deep/quick tosses to our receivers(a la Virginia Tech last year against Pitt) would have worked in spades all game. We just didn't really try it for the first time in almost a year. If nothing else, I think it would have loosened the defense up a bit for Barkley and McSorley.

 

[Cosmos]

Overall, not too much to complain about so far this year. Yeah McSorley had an off week against Pitt perhaps. But my concern is not seeing explosive plays with the vertical passing game so far this year. Add to it comments from Narduzzi how they shut down our #1 receiver easily and it makes me mad because he didn't mention how PSU shutdown their All American with 0 yards from scrimmage, but it does make me wonder what is going on. Can't Johnson who we heard so much about pre-season get open or separation? Where is Blacknall? Is it that other teams have seen us once and are better prepared or is it that the focus of the offense is basically taking what the defense is giving? Never the less, It sure would be nice to see some explosive pass plays to the WRs. I would hate to think OSU and Mich could shut down our vertical passing that easily since they each have great front 7s on defense. I really like how our WRs are blocking and blocking on the perimeter has been excellent overall for SB. But OSU and Mich have much better perimeter players than Pitt, so it does concern me that the vertical game hasn't yet clicked or perhaps maybe intentionally not been utilized to this point. Just like Coach said, we need to have somewhat on KO and Punt returns that strikes fear into the opposition, fear from our vertical passing game is even a bigger deal to me. Any thoughts?

Valid concerns. You know the saying: "if ifs and buts were candy and nuts then everyday would be Christmas." But if Hamilton caught that pass when he was wide open and if Gisecki hadn't tripped over the turf monster then we wouldn't be so concerned. Improve the run blocking. Improve the open field tackling. Add 10 points to the score! That said, that dog won't hunt against Meat and Ahia State. Coach looked tired in his press conference. I believe he's addressing it. That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

 

[ram2020]

I think Franklin kind of answered this at the press conference. The PSU offense is designed to put the ball where the defense isn't.

If a defense wants to take away something, and deploys defenders, Moorhead isn't going to force it, he'll just take the ball somewhere else.

Remember how stubborn Paterno would get -- he wanted to win moral victories as well as games. Paterno sometimes wanted to beat the strength of another team - and sometimes it worked and sometimes, on the goalline, PSU ran four plays to the middle of the defense and didn't get the TD.

The current philosophy couldn't be more different. Pitt worked hard to take away downfield passing, so PSU scores an easy TD throwing the ball Barkley out of the backfield. Whatever it takes.

I'm not worried about downfield passing. I'm a bit more worried about getting push up front for the running game.

PSU really needs to have a running game this year and if they don't, it's not going to be like last year because teams are going to defend the passing game better. If PSU can't run the ball on 3rd and 2 this year, it's gonna cost them games.

I don't know how you know that Pitt "took away" the downfield pass. We really did not throw it much and their defense seemed awfully close to the line before each play. I will concede they didn't blitz much and played coverage more than expected.

 

[royboy]

Pitt had a decent pass rush at times, and Trace had "happy feet" at times and even had a pass batted down, which is fairly unusual for him. That, plus, Godwin is not around as a go-to guy, and that's a transition.

Work in progress.

 

[steelhead52]

I agree that we are not in trouble or anything yet. My comment was related to only having 79 yards of offense to our WRs against Pitt while missing their best athlete in their secondary. Johnson had 1 catch for 4 yds and Blacknall had 0 catches. That's my concern. Where will we go from here? My question remains, what is wrong with the vertical passing game? Was Godwin that good? Do we have the talent to really stretch the field? Those guys were not really targeted. Was it because they were easily covered as Narducci claims or was it that we just chose a different game plan.

 

[tboyer]

I don't know how you know that Pitt "took away" the downfield pass. We really did not throw it much and their defense seemed awfully close to the line before each play. I will concede they didn't blitz much and played coverage more than expected.

They worked pretty hard on PSU's passing game. Which is the way it's gonna be this year. Teams this year know they can't just stop Barkley, they have to worry about McSorley.

I guess my point was I'm not super worried about PSU's passing game. Godwin was a huge loss, if he'd stayed I think he would have been the greatest receiver ever in a PSU uniform. Without him it's a good (maybe not great) wideout corps. And of course Gesicki is only the best pass catching TE in college fb. And Barkley and Robinson have great receiver skills.

So I think the passing game will be fine if the OL makes lanes for Trace. The OL -- pass blocking and run blocking -- clearly has a ways to go, and if they get there, the PSU offense will be great again this year. The whole season may depend on OL really coming of age.

 

[Monty2007]

I think Franklin kind of answered this at the press conference. The PSU offense is designed to put the ball where the defense isn't.

If a defense wants to take away something, and deploys defenders, Moorhead isn't going to force it, he'll just take the ball somewhere else.

Remember how stubborn Paterno would get -- he wanted to win moral victories as well as games. Paterno sometimes wanted to beat the strength of another team - and sometimes it worked and sometimes, on the goalline, PSU ran four plays to the middle of the defense and didn't get the TD.

The current philosophy couldn't be more different. Pitt worked hard to take away downfield passing, so PSU scores an easy TD throwing the ball Barkley out of the backfield. Whatever it takes.

I'm not worried about downfield passing. I'm a bit more worried about getting push up front for the running game.

PSU really needs to have a running game this year and if they don't, it's not going to be like last year because teams are going to defend the passing game better. If PSU can't run the ball on 3rd and 2 this year, it's gonna cost them games.

Tb, your over generalizing the goal line if your referring to the '78 Alabama game. On 2nd down, Fusina to Fitkzee gained 8 yds to one before we tried to run up the middle twice. Joe said several times that he wanted to pass again on that series but was talked out of it by his assistants.

Anyway, it's still early in the season and there's still some kinks to work out before the real test at Iowa in two weeks. That will be the real test.

 

[mn78psu83]

Tb, your over generalizing the goal line if your referring to the '78 Alabama game. On 2nd down, Fusina to Fitkzee gained 8 yds to one before we tried to run up the middle twice. Joe said several times that he wanted to pass again on that series but was talked out of it by his assistants.

Anyway, it's still early in the season and there's still some kinks to work out before the real test at Iowa in two weeks. That will be the real test.

It was 2nd down from the 6. Still. Your point stands. For those who can endure suffering better than others - LINK: The Goal Line Stand

 

[tboyer]

Tb, your over generalizing the goal line if your referring to the '78 Alabama game. On 2nd down, Fusina to Fitkzee gained 8 yds to one before we tried to run up the middle twice. Joe said several times that he wanted to pass again on that series but was talked out of it by his assistants.

Anyway, it's still early in the season and there's still some kinks to work out before the real test at Iowa in two weeks. That will be the real test.

I was sorta speaking generally but we all do know Joe had that desire to win not just on the scoreboard but he wanted to teach moral lessons and win moral victories. You saw it in game plans particularly against opponents Joe thought inferior. He intentionally made it harder for his team. And sometimes it worked - he ended up with teams that played great under pressure because they had been in so many nailbiter games.

The current regime philosophy is so different -- they just want to win every game, not risk losing. First down inside the Pitt 10, perfect time for a moral victory, but no, the first play call is a sneaky deceptive thing to get the TE wide open. Franklin and Moorhead, they don't mess around, it's all about scoring.

 

[anon_1eeb2b426hv3y]

Overall, not too much to complain about so far this year. Yeah McSorley had an off week against Pitt perhaps. But my concern is not seeing explosive plays with the vertical passing game so far this year. Add to it comments from Narduzzi how they shut down our #1 receiver easily and it makes me mad because he didn't mention how PSU shutdown their All American with 0 yards from scrimmage, but it does make me wonder what is going on. Can't Johnson who we heard so much about pre-season get open or separation? Where is Blacknall? Is it that other teams have seen us once and are better prepared or is it that the focus of the offense is basically taking what the defense is giving? Never the less, It sure would be nice to see some explosive pass plays to the WRs. I would hate to think OSU and Mich could shut down our vertical passing that easily since they each have great front 7s on defense. I really like how our WRs are blocking and blocking on the perimeter has been excellent overall for SB. But OSU and Mich have much better perimeter players than Pitt, so it does concern me that the vertical game hasn't yet clicked or perhaps maybe intentionally not been utilized to this point. Just like Coach said, we need to have somewhat on KO and Punt returns that strikes fear into the opposition, fear from our vertical passing game is even a bigger deal to me. Any thoughts?

Uh, no Godwin, less need/opportunity to go deep and second week of the season. Not panic time yet.

 

[jerseylion109]

Godwin is a lot better than Juwan Johnson

 

[ThePennsyOracle]

Just like Coach said, we need to have somewhat on KO and Punt returns that strikes fear into the opposition, fear from our vertical passing game is even a bigger deal to me. Any thoughts?

What's wrong with our vertical passing game? The answer is simple.

steelhead52 isn't the offensive coordinator, therefore our vertical passing game blows.

Clearly.

 

[Madsol]

It was 2nd down from the 6. Still. Your point stands. For those who can endure suffering better than others - LINK: The Goal Line Stand

Curious, was Joe ever asked of he would have gone for 2 if they had scored? I can't remember ever hearing a discussion on that. There was more time left on the clock than I remembered. I thought the goal line stand was just about at the end of the game.

 

[Obliviax]

I am unconcerned at this point. We won big with Akron and we're up 14 quick at Pitt. No need to go deep unless wide open

 

[Tweedbear]

What a different commentary when compared with Hackenberg.
Comments about his failings would have overwhelmed the board.

 

[Judge Smails]

I agree that we are not in trouble or anything yet. My comment was related to only having 79 yards of offense to our WRs against Pitt while missing their best athlete in their secondary. Johnson had 1 catch for 4 yds and Blacknall had 0 catches. That's my concern. Where will we go from here? My question remains, what is wrong with the vertical passing game? Was Godwin that good? Do we have the talent to really stretch the field? Those guys were not really targeted. Was it because they were easily covered as Narducci claims or was it that we just chose a different game plan.

The offense is designed to go to whoever is open. Gesicki has had big games the beginning of the season, but it could be defenses will start paying more attention to him going forward and someone else will open up. The only thing "wrong" I've seen with the passing game so far is Trace had an off day on Saturday. Hopefully he reverts to form going forward.

 

[pandaczar12]

They didn't want to waste plays on Pitt, and tip off future opponents.

 

[mn78psu83]

Curious, was Joe ever asked of he would have gone for 2 if they had scored? I can't remember ever hearing a discussion on that. There was more time left on the clock than I remembered. I thought the goal line stand was just about at the end of the game.

I can't remember Joe addressing that question. It seemed like everyone assumed that he would have gone for 2. As you said, there was a lot of time left, though, and PSU got the ball back with 1:30 or so left. With the way the defense played in the 2nd half, he might have chosen to kick the extra point with the hope that the defense would hold again and PSU would get the ball back.

 

[BisbeeMike]

Nothing is wrong with our vertical passing game: It's standing on the sideline for whatever reason, #13. At some point, #13 won't be standing on the sideline and we'll be fine.

 

[bdgan]

The offense is designed to go to whoever is open. Gesicki has had big games the beginning of the season, but it could be defenses will start paying more attention to him going forward and someone else will open up. The only thing "wrong" I've seen with the passing game so far is Trace had an off day on Saturday. Hopefully he reverts to form going forward.

Apparently Pitt started paying attention to Gesicki after the first quarter.

 

[ram2020]

I am unconcerned at this point. We won big with Akron and we're up 14 quick at Pitt. No need to go deep unless wide open

Okay, I don't disagree with you, but JoeMo would right? That is not how he approaches football, there is always a need to go deep and keep the defense honest, that opens up lanes for trace and Saqoun.

 

[tboyer]

Godwin is a lot better than Juwan Johnson

Godwin's a big loss because he was one of the best we'll see at PSU. But even without him, by any reasonable standard it's a very good receiving corps left. No Juwan Johnson is not Godwin but he could have a big year in his own way.

 

[Rip_E_2_Joe_PA]

If you watched this exhibition game carefully. You know.

 

[BisbeeMike]

Godwin's a big loss because he was one of the best we'll see at PSU. But even without him, by any reasonable standard it's a very good receiving corps left. No Juwan Johnson is not Godwin but he could have a big year in his own way.

It takes awhile, which is why we need Blacknall on that field, so that we can start taking the top off of defenses again, and so that Juwan can continue to develop without having all of the heat on him to be that guy, with a grand total of 2 starts under his belt so far.

Or, maybe Irv Charles can come out of nowhere and realize that giant potential he has. Whatever the case, let's get these guys involved. We have 6 legit options, this isn't like 2002 when we had two guys to throw to, and only one of them could get deep, and our quarterback couldn't put any speed into his throws because he was throwing with an injured arm. We're better at throwing the football than what we've showed so far.

 

[phillybillyreprise]

So I don't offend any other old timers with my grammar, I'll use quotation marks.

"Hit'em where they ain't!"

 

[tboyer]

It takes awhile, which is why we need Blacknall on that field, so that we can start taking the top off of defenses again, and so that Juwan can continue to develop without having all of the heat on him to be that guy, with a grand total of 2 starts under his belt so far.

Or, maybe Irv Charles can come out of nowhere and realize that giant potential he has. Whatever the case, let's get these guys involved. We have 6 legit options, this isn't like 2002 when we had two guys to throw to, and only one of them could get deep, and our quarterback couldn't put any speed into his throws because he was throwing with an injured arm. We're better at throwing the football than what we've showed so far.

Blacknall's been on the field quite a lot, just hasn't had any balls thrown to him. Franklin at the PC said very clearly that it's just a matter of play calls which are based on what the defense is doing. It's hard to believe but on the other hand it just doesn't seem like Franklin would mislead about that -- he seems pretty truthful and when he doesn't want to answer, he is clear about that.

I guess the good news is Hamilton after some drops has made a bunch of good catches. And of course is a terrific blocker. Polk and Thompkins have made good catches and been great blocking. Thompkins just killed his guy on Gesicki's 2nd TD.

So athletically it's a terrific group but maybe even more important it's a super experienced group that knows the offense and just knows what they're doing out there. Polk is not going to be the gimmick jet sweep guy -- he can do a lot.

So I agree with you about Blacknall. He seems to me to be the best deep threat because of his tremendous speed for size. But even if he doesn't play a big role this year they might be in really good shape.

Agree with you about 2002. They had a number of receivers who were just not much of an asset when they were out there. Some guys who just couldn't catch the football or run routes or block much to speak of. Skill level (and I bet this isn't just PSU but all teams) is so much higher now.

 

[BisbeeMike]

Taking what the defense is great, but you need to actually TAKE what they give you. In this offense, that's vital. Against Pitt, we did not take what they gave us as often as what this offense usually does. Much of that had to do with Trace having an off day. Back to work this Saturday night and let's feed the best running back in the nation, and if they try to take him away, then let's HIT those deep throws and put them away early. Get Tommy more reps, and then get Jake Zembiec his reps also. Keep Clifford on the sideline, don't burn that shirt unless absolutely necessary.

 

[rudedude]

444 yds, 5 TD, 62.6% completion rate 156.2 QBR.

http://pennstate.247sports.com/Arti...ll-Tale-of-the-Tape-Offense-vs-Pitt-107298340

 

[steelhead52]

444 yds, 5 TD, 62.6% completion rate 156.2 QBR.

http://pennstate.247sports.com/Arti...ll-Tale-of-the-Tape-Offense-vs-Pitt-107298340

Nice article, good analysis.

 

[wilbury]

I don't know how you know that Pitt "took away" the downfield pass. We really did not throw it much and their defense seemed awfully close to the line before each play. I will concede they didn't blitz much and played coverage more than expected.

I agree they didn't really take away the vertical passing game. They anticipated our plays really well. We didn't mix things up. When we ran the ball, you could see all three linebackers inch forward before the snap. They new the play. Same with the swing passes. The one thing they did do well was keep McSorely in the pocket. He struggled when he couldn't roll out and as one person previously mentioned, his height is a problem when he can't get outside. He can't see over the line very well.

 

[Kinnick 4 Prez]

Interesting