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Whens the last time PSU had this much quality depth at every position?

PSUWrestlingFanSince2011

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Mar 22, 2022
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Whats our biggest position question mark? WR? Not even sure if thats a question mark now. Don't remember having this much quality depth at every position since '94
 
Whats our biggest position question mark? WR? Not even sure if thats a question mark now. Don't remember having this much quality depth at every position since '94
I'm not going that far but it is nice to have a roster that projects well at pretty much every position and has quality depth. We aren't in that top tier as far as having so much talent that you're sitting 5 stars a couple of years until the 5 stars ahead of them leave early for the NFL, but we can compete with those teams now.
 
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Question mark for me is DT. Someone to occupy the center and guards to let our LBs make plays in the run game. Are there players of that ilk on the roster anywhere?
 
We had equal or better depth from 2005 to 2009 without the holes we currently have at WR, DE and DT. By holes I mean production or players suited to the rolls they are asked to play. We have lots of bodies but not a lot of production and lack players for key rolls.
 
The team does seem to have nice depth at about every position. Just need to avoid key injuries where the need to rotate players against top teams is a necessity, particularly on defense at DT and DE.

And there is considerable experience at every position except the most important position on the field - QB. I'm excited about Allar, but as talented as he seems to be he's unproven and will have a learning curve.

But this is the year that the talent lines up to have a shot at the playoff. After this season there will still be great depth and talent at a good many positions, but there will likely be some holes as well (CB, possibly DE and DT). Hopefully Franklin can develop the DB's and DE's in the 2023 class to fill those holes (along with a couple portal additions) as with a year of experience under his belt 2024 should be the year Allar really breaks out.
 
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We had equal or better depth from 2005 to 2009 without the holes we currently have at WR, DE and DT. By holes I mean production or players suited to the rolls they are asked to play. We have lots of bodies but not a lot of production and lack players for key rolls.


So Joes teams underperformed in 4 of the 5 years? He also had a losing record vs OSU and UM.
 
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So Joes teams underperformed in 4 of the 5 years? He also had a losing record vs OSU and UM.
They underperformed in 07. The 06 team did play against the most difficult schedule PSU has faced since 94 or since by a wide margin. The 06 team was probably better than any team we have fielded the last decade. The 07 team also faced a very difficult schedule but took a step back. Power ranking our Big Ten era teams, I would put 05, 08 and 09 in the top five and 06 would be in the top ten and ahead of 22.
 
They underperformed in 07. The 06 team did play against the most difficult schedule PSU has faced since 94 or since by a wide margin. The 06 team was probably better than any team we have fielded the last decade. The 07 team also faced a very difficult schedule but took a step back. Power ranking our Big Ten era teams, I would put 05, 08 and 09 in the top five and 06 would be in the top ten and ahead of 22.


06 underperformed using your metrics. 9-4 with better depth and no holes! 0 top 10 wins. Lost to OSU and Michigan. Akron, temple and Youngstown state is the toughest ooc schedule???
 
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06 underperformed using your metrics. 9-4 with better depth and no holes! 0 top 10 wins. Lost to OSU and Michigan. Akron, temple and Youngstown state is the toughest ooc schedule???
Not that I'm disagreeing, but you're forgetting the road trip to South Bend for a pretty good Domer squad that year. IIRC, OSU, UM and the Domers were all top ten(?).
 
We had equal or better depth from 2005 to 2009 without the holes we currently have at WR, DE and DT. By holes I mean production or players suited to the rolls they are asked to play. We have lots of bodies but not a lot of production and lack players for key rolls.
It's not easy to be negative about what PSU is putting together for the next couple seasons.

But you manage to be gloomy and clueless.
 
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We had equal or better depth from 2005 to 2009 without the holes we currently have at WR, DE and DT. By holes I mean production or players suited to the rolls they are asked to play. We have lots of bodies but not a lot of production and lack players for key rolls.
DE? I'd like to know the 4 DE's on any of the teams from 2005 to 2009 that were as good as Isaac, Chop, DDS and Vanover. Let alone the 5th and 6th DE's that were returning with 3+ years at PSU and were as good as Vilbert and Fisher. Even with Hali and Rice in 2005, the depth wasn't there for 6 solid DE's like the current roster holds.

Seems like cherry picking to me. None of those 2000's teams had two RB's like the 2023 team will have. Or the TE's. Or the CB's. I just looked at 5 depth charts on nittanyanthology.

Every team has strengths and weaknesses when you try and make comparisons. And trying to line up performances in the past also is heavily influenced by the teams on the schedule. Would any of the teams that those 2000's teams played stack up with the Michigan teams of the last 2 years or the recent OSU teams? I don't believe so.

They were very good PSU teams in 2005 and 2009. But they didn't have to play against the current OSU passing offense and yearly stacked DL. Or UM's dominant running game of the last 2 seasons.
 
Whats our biggest position question mark? WR? Not even sure if thats a question mark now. Don't remember having this much quality depth at every position since '94
Back in the old days the Penn State would have well over 100 scholarship players before the 85 limit came into effect. Penn State was far deeper in those days. Not even close.
 
DE? I'd like to know the 4 DE's on any of the teams from 2005 to 2009 that were as good as Isaac, Chop, DDS and Vanover. Let alone the 5th and 6th DE's that were returning with 3+ years at PSU and were as good as Vilbert and Fisher. Even with Hali and Rice in 2005, the depth wasn't there for 6 solid DE's like the current roster holds.

Seems like cherry picking to me. None of those 2000's teams had two RB's like the 2023 team will have. Or the TE's. Or the CB's. I just looked at 5 depth charts on nittanyanthology.

Every team has strengths and weaknesses when you try and make comparisons. And trying to line up performances in the past also is heavily influenced by the teams on the schedule. Would any of the teams that those 2000's teams played stack up with the Michigan teams of the last 2 years or the recent OSU teams? I don't believe so.

They were very good PSU teams in 2005 and 2009. But they didn't have to play against the current OSU passing offense and yearly stacked DL. Or UM's dominant running game of the last 2 seasons.
Hey Of the Wall-ass has Breen suffers from depression due to undaunted blind negativity. Come on ... show him a little sensitivity ... By placing him on no ignore. Your mom life will be better for it.
 
Whats our biggest position question mark? WR? Not even sure if thats a question mark now. Don't remember having this much quality depth at every position since '94
Not sure about that. However, I was extremely optimistic when I left the Cotton Bowl. Subtract Journey Brown before the season starts and of course Parsons.......sprinkle in Cain's injury and a questionable call ending game one and viola! I'm not getting out over my skis. I'm really enjoying the 11-2 and #7 finish. The prospects seem to be there for the same and perhaps better. It's never easy especially since key injury can happen so often in football. What is everyone's prediction if Allar is out for 5 games. Singleton and Allen hobbled? etc.
Of course the same calamities are possible for our primary rivals. I'll take them one at a time.
 
Yes. The same players who did it the last two years when PJ was out.
You think those same players, i.e. Izzard, Ellies, Durant, etc., are big enough and rugged enough at the LOS to win their battles? clearly JF didn't since he said how much bigger we need to get...and I don't think he was talking about any other position. Our DT's have been serviceable after PJ...but still need to make way more plays so the LB's can roam free.
 
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You think those same players, i.e. Izzard, Ellies, Durant, etc., are big enough and rugged enough at the LOS to win their battles? clearly JF didn't since he said how much bigger we need to get...and I don't think he was talking about any other position. Our DT's have been serviceable after PJ...but still need to make way more plays so the LB's can roam free.
Have Izzard, Ellies, Durant, perhaps Vandenberg and others given up on the training table and weight room to bulk up over the next 6.5 months? What are their actual weights at this point in time? Is there a possible position change in the offing that might help? We shall see.
 
Have Izzard, Ellies, Durant, perhaps Vandenberg and others given up on the training table and weight room to bulk up over the next 6.5 months? What are their actual weights at this point in time? Is there a possible position change in the offing that might help? We shall see.
Yep, much can happen the next 7 months with their weight and strength. That group seems very similar though -- lower to the ground, not as tall and square. If that is the case, they need to dominate the leverage game and beat their man in space. Michigan bulldozed us at the LOS the last two years by just getting a hat on a hat...I really think if we start winning the LOS battles in these big showdowns, everything will change for the better - like making the playoffs. The LOS still means a ton despite all the changes in offensive, wide open schemes, big plays, etc.
 
Whats our biggest position question mark? WR? Not even sure if thats a question mark now. Don't remember having this much quality depth at every position since '94

The weakest position is the Mike LB. The tackling capabilities of the starter are suspect at best and the pass coverage is weak. This will become more obvious against power run teams like Michigan and efficient passing teams like Purdue.
 
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You think those same players, i.e. Izzard, Ellies, Durant, etc., are big enough and rugged enough at the LOS to win their battles? clearly JF didn't since he said how much bigger we need to get...and I don't think he was talking about any other position. Our DT's have been serviceable after PJ...but still need to make way more plays so the LB's can roam free.


The get bigger comment was revised. They later said the problem was players were not trusting their teammates and not sticking to their assignments.

The fact is there are not that many big DTs. Going back to 2010(3 HCs) PSU only had about 5DTs over 310. Daquon Jones, Austin Johnson, Mustipher, Hansard and Brevard. Only 3 starters.

Who won the battles the last two years when mustipher was not on the field?
 
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UM did not bulldoze us two years ago. In fact, we were in great position to win that game. And this year the LB play was not good in that game, leaving lots of big gaping holes. Not excusing the DL this year, either.
 
You think those same players, i.e. Izzard, Ellies, Durant, etc., are big enough and rugged enough at the LOS to win their battles? clearly JF didn't since he said how much bigger we need to get...and I don't think he was talking about any other position. Our DT's have been serviceable after PJ...but still need to make way more plays so the LB's can roam free.
The PSU DT's aren't the biggest around. But I'm in the camp that believes the biggest issue with size is at DE. Courtney Brown, and even Nassib were tall and around 270 lbs which kept them from getting pushed around much.

Our current DE's average around 250, and although Chop had a nice season he reportedly wasn't even 240 lbs. The small, quick DE's seem to do pretty well in rushing the QB, but they don't hold up real well against a tough running game of a team with a good OLine. There may be teams whose LB's average being bigger than what our DE's were last season. Maybe Alabama, although I didn't check.
 
The PSU DT's aren't the biggest around. But I'm in the camp that believes the biggest issue with size is at DE. Courtney Brown, and even Nassib were tall and around 270 lbs which kept them from getting pushed around much.

Our current DE's average around 250, and although Chop had a nice season he reportedly wasn't even 240 lbs. The small, quick DE's seem to do pretty well in rushing the QB, but they don't hold up real well against a tough running game of a team with a good OLine. There may be teams whose LB's average being bigger than what our DE's were last season. Maybe Alabama, although I didn't check.
That's a really good point that I certainly did not even think about… our pass rushers are on the much smaller kind of quicker side but they really don't have the mass or the frame to hold up against the run… I mean clearly James has a type in recruiting his pass rushers because most of them look the same… I think as a whole we are a small defense on size but built for speed and athleticism and then you take the pros and cons with that
 
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That's a really good point that I certainly did not even think about… our pass rushers are on the much smaller kind of quicker side but they really don't have the mass or the frame to hold up against the run… I mean clearly James has a type in recruiting his pass rushers because most of them look the same… I think as a whole we are a small defense on size but built for speed and athleticism and then you take the pros and cons with that
Dani Dennis-Sutton looked good as a true freshman, and listed at 6'5" 253# certainly has the frame to add weight and strength.

Keep in mind that we more often see the term "edge rusher" especially in the NFL, instead of Defensive End, showing just how important the pass rush is in the modern game. And it's more about speed and quickness at that position -- look at Micah; he is more often labeled as an "edge rusher" rather than a Linebacker, though he is very versatile. And he is listed at 245#

What I saw in PSU's last 5 or 6 games was a bunch of defensive players in the opponents backfield, racking up sacks and TFL. With Diaz back and young players who continue to get better, I see PSU as having a very strong defense. Are they still vulnerable to a jumbo OL and a really good run game? -- perhaps, but I don't see them getting overmatched, even by OSU and Michigan. Just my opinion.
 
Whats our biggest position question mark? WR? Not even sure if thats a question mark now. Don't remember having this much quality depth at every position since '94
It's a quality roster but as of now DL, OL and wideout are not at a top tier B1G level. Hard to beat Michigan or Ohio State if they're stronger at the LOS.

Sometimes things magically fall into place and there is that chance that Allar will be extraordinary and the OL will be able to stay healthy and play at a top tier B1G level. If that happens anything is possible.

I think the best you can say is that the program is back on the rise. But I wouldn't expect too much until you can see how well the OL can perform and how well Allar plays in his first year as a starter.
 
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It's a quality roster but as of now DL, OL and wideout are not at a top tier B1G level. Hard to beat Michigan or Ohio State if they're stronger at the LOS.

Sometimes things magically fall into place and there is that chance that Allar will be extraordinary and the OL will be able to stay healthy and play at a top tier B1G level. If that happens anything is possible.

I think the best you can say is that the program is back on the rise. But I wouldn't expect too much until you can see how well the OL can perform and how well Allar plays in his first year as a starter.
I think that the o-line should be a strength of this team next season.
 
The weakest position is the Mike LB. The tackling capabilities of the starter are suspect at best and the pass coverage is weak. This will become more obvious against power run teams like Michigan and efficient passing teams like Purdue.
Iowa just picked up a Mike LBer in the transfer portal from UVA. He had over 100 tackles last year.
 
I just hope someone tells our DTs that we have a bunch of people saying that PSU needs to pick up DTs in the portal. I'd love for them to have some extra motivation during winter workouts.
All the motivation in the world can't fix 50 giving up 50 pounds. We have at least 3 guys that need to gain 25-30 pounds a man.
 
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